Where have all the folkies gone?

Subject: RE: Where have all the folkies gone?
From: GUEST,Susanne (skw)
Date: 14 Feb 22 - 10:34 AM

Piers Plowman, do you live in Germany? Or who told you the yarn about folk music on German radio? Other than DLF on occasion, as far as I am aware they all stopped doing folk music years ago because they found - surprise, surprise - not enough people were interested. We tried in vain to explain that a public station should feel responsible for also (or even particularly) catering for minority interests that the private stations refused to cater for. Protesting when 15 or 20 years ago NDR scrapped their last half-hour folk programme (10.30 pm on a Saturday) got us nowhere, so I have to fall back on my disc collection and the occasional gig or festival. Germany is no folkies paradise!

Subject: RE: Where have all the folkies gone?
From: Piers Plowman
Date: 14 Feb 22 - 12:19 PM

Yes, I do live in Germany (Göttingen). And with respect to "folk" in the sense of this forum, I was thinking of Deutschlandfunk (DLF). They play "world music" on HR2 (Hessischer Rundfunk), though not as much as they used to. I think they may play some folk in the course of that. They also have a program on every evening "Hörbar" that may also have some folk on it. I never listen to it because they always play things I hate among some things I quite like.

As far as "Volksmusik" is concerned, I'm pretty sure they have it on the radio and I'm virtually certain it's still on the TV (ZDF). However, if it ever came onto my radio, I would get out of a hot bath to turn it off.

You're right about NDR Kultur. They never play folk, except they did play Joan Baez singing "It Ain't Me, Babe" about half an hour ago.

I recall a "Lange Nacht" ("long night") on DLF about the famous concert at Burg Waldeck a couple of years ago (the program, not the concert).

Laurence Finston

Subject: RE: Where have all the folkies gone?
From: Piers Plowman
Date: 14 Feb 22 - 12:21 PM

Oh, and there are quite a few programs about blues on the radio currently, weekly in fact. Is that folk?

Subject: RE: Where have all the folkies gone?
From: Piers Plowman
Date: 14 Feb 22 - 12:27 PM

> Protesting when 15 or 20 years ago NDR scrapped their last half-hour folk programme (10.30 pm on a Saturday)

I don't remember this program at all. Was it NDR Info? Up until recently they had a program with rock music, "Nachtclub (Nightclub) Extra", with rotating specialties at 11:00 PM on Saturdays. I often liked "Nachtclub Classics". There was a very good program about Gary Brooker and Procul Harum shortly before the recent change when they went to all news.

Subject: RE: Where have all the folkies gone?
From: GUEST
Date: 15 Feb 22 - 05:09 AM

It's an old business trick
    1 You want to stop providing a service or goods

    2 Restrict the supply of the service or goods & apply intermittent breaks in service and goods shortage- ie general unreliability.

    3 Customers find an alternative

    4 Some customers ask specifically for for the old service or goods

    5 Tell these customers there is no demand

    6 withdraw the service or goods completely.

Subject: RE: Where have all the folkies gone?
From: GUEST
Date: 15 Feb 22 - 05:52 AM

As with UK banks and Post Offices.

Subject: RE: Where have all the folkies gone?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 15 Feb 22 - 09:11 AM

Well I think it was more to the contrary. The era was part of a whole raft of cultural 'happenings'. Folksongs were happening in drama - John Arden, Wesker, etc. Seeger was writing about the age of the H -bomb that was upon us every day in the news.

And the guys who could do it professionally to any standard at all were small. I remember Harvey Andrews reminiscing that there were very few in the '60's who could do two whole sets.

But what those guys did - those few - they planted a seed.

It became possible to buy a Yamaha guitar for half the price of those Harmony Sovreigns and and a tenth the price of a Gibson. Demand was created and someone decided decided to supply it.

The multiplicity of acousyic musicians that we see nowadays are a consequence of those of us who sat, enviously watching in folk clubs. And just as we never thought of ourselves as the inheritors of Vaughan Williams etc.- they don't see the connection to us, two generations earlier.

Subject: RE: Where have all the folkies gone?
From: GUEST,Diolch
Date: 15 Feb 22 - 12:37 PM

Ah, yes, that bygone golden age, when "folksongs were happening in drama". Alas, alack, we weep for what we have irretrievably lost since - checks notes - 2007....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_Horse_(play)

And how could young people, inheriting a living participatory tradition, who can literally see multiple generations of famous folkie families playing together on stage, possibly have any sense of history, lmao.

Subject: RE: Where have all the folkies gone?
From: GUEST,Diolch
Date: 15 Feb 22 - 12:56 PM

And I'm sure the play Folk, from 2021, will be repeated or eventually fully staged:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m000vwq2

(Bit off the folk club subject but I can't resist recommending good stuff.)

Subject: RE: Where have all the folkies gone?
From: GUEST,Diolch
Date: 15 Feb 22 - 01:00 PM

* Correction: the play Folk was staged at Hampstead Theatre from 18 Dec 2021 to 5 Feb 2022.

Subject: RE: Where have all the folkies gone?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 15 Feb 22 - 01:32 PM

Theres a difference.

Someone once sad (C Day Lewis maybe....) If I'm playing cards I'd rather play with someone who simply doesn't cheat, rather than someone who is serious about not cheating.

Moral earnestness is no guarantee of being right.

Subject: RE: Where have all the folkies gone?
From: GUEST,Diolch
Date: 15 Feb 22 - 02:09 PM

There's nothing wrong with older people feeling and expressing nostalgia for their own youth. But declaring traditional music dead when it's obviously thriving, and spewing misinformation and disinformation will understandably make young folkies avoid the people who deliberately do this and the places that promote them.

Subject: RE: Where have all the folkies gone?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 15 Feb 22 - 02:23 PM

Traditional music isn't dead. I doubt if that is within the considerable pwers of of the current perpetrators.

I just think, its cowering in places where BBC4 can't reach it.

Subject: RE: Where have all the folkies gone?
From: reggie miles
Date: 16 Feb 22 - 01:22 PM

Piers Plowman:

"Oh, and there are quite a few programs about blues on the radio currently, weekly in fact. Is that folk?"

Well, I'd say we'd be opening another can of worms to get into a discussion about whether Blues may or may not be considered Folk. I think that Blues has its roots in the Folk music tradition and that it maintains some of the elements of that tradition even today in some forms of the genre. However, and to its benefit, the Blues genre has not decided to cling so tightly to its past traditions but rather, it has allowed itself the freedom to be transformed and move beyond the past in many ways and in doing so, transformed the greater world of contemporary music like no other genre ever has.

Subject: RE: Where have all the folkies gone?
From: GUEST,Roger.
Date: 16 Feb 22 - 03:48 PM

We're still here. Just getting older and playing with ourselves!

Subject: RE: Where have all the folkies gone?
From: voyager
Date: 16 Feb 22 - 04:17 PM

Yippee epitaph for Abbie Hoffman and Paul Krassner - clown princes of the sntiwar movement ... 'old Yippees MN ever die ... they just go underground'.

voyager

Subject: RE: Where have all the folkies gone?
From: voyager
Date: 16 Feb 22 - 04:23 PM

coreection to typoed text ...Abbie Hoffman and Paul Krassner - clown princes of the antiwar movement ...Old Yippees never die, they just go underground"

Subject: RE: Where have all the folkies gone?
From: Piers Plowman
Date: 17 Feb 22 - 04:04 AM

Reggie: I wasn't being entirely serious. I know the question is one that could potentially lead to an endless and fruitless dispute, like "what is folk?". I happen to agree with the first part of what you said. As far as the second part is concerned, well, you play blues in public whereas it's not really my thing.

On Deutschlandfunk, there is a regular program called "Lied- und Folkgeschichte(n)" ("Song and Folk Story (Stories)"):
https://www.deutschlandfunk.de/lied-und-folkgeschichte-n-100.html
Unfortunately, there's no English translation.

Normally, it's on once a month, but there were none from September to November 2021. I've heard at least one, but I don't usually listen to it.

I've looked over the previous broadcasts and according to my definition (the only correct one, of course), NONE of them contained folk. Here are a few sample phrases from the descriptions of the broadcasts:

"Mobile samplers and loopers"

"the Chansons of Jacques Brel" (I love them, but they're not folk.)

"slam-poetry passages in the songs"

"is it retro bluegrass, indie folk or Americana Pop?"

"whether on the street or the club, X is creative, surprising, mostly
barefoot" Barefoot, on the street? Or on a stage where there can be nails? Does OSHA know about this?

"with their Folk-Pop-Rock-New-Age interpretations ..."

Subject: RE: Where have all the folkies gone?
From: Jack Campin
Date: 17 Feb 22 - 06:12 AM

And even in my older age-group, I can think of some who, having learned an instrument, spend every bit of spare time at sessions but rarely attend any clubs or “spectator sport”.

That would be me. I've been playing folk music since the mid-60s and never felt folk clubs had much to do with it. The age group of the people I've played with has widened over the decades but the lower end hasn't shifted that much. I'd have had a very different impression if I'd frequented institutions where people thought real ale had anything to with music or that possession of a brand-name guitar with a cool model number would make it more memorable.

Subject: RE: Where have all the folkies gone?
From: GUEST
Date: 19 Feb 22 - 05:08 AM

surely you don't need to play an instrument to be a folkie?

Subject: RE: Where have all the folkies gone?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 19 Feb 22 - 05:36 AM

I think its still a scary time, particularly if you are old, ill and vulnerable and frightened of getting Covid.

I bet many genres of entertainment must be going through a lean time.

I notice they've stopped giving us a daily tally of all those killed by the disease.

Subject: RE: Where have all the folkies gone?
From: The Sandman
Date: 19 Feb 22 - 11:40 AM

Jack, I get the impression that you are more interested in playing an instrument than singing, Folk clubs are primarily about singing or attempting to sing.
I do not know what a jazzie is , I know what a cuntie is, THEY often wear cowboy hats and sing in American accents ABOUT THE BLACK HILLS OF KILLARNEY

Subject: RE: Where have all the folkies gone?
From: Jack Campin
Date: 19 Feb 22 - 06:03 PM

I don't sing very often but there are plenty of opportunities outwith folk clubs. About half the public sessions I get to (and most of the private house events) mix singing and instrumentals.

Subject: RE: Where have all the folkies gone?
From: Richard Mellish
Date: 20 Feb 22 - 05:02 AM

> However, and to its benefit, the Blues genre has not decided to cling so tightly to its past traditions but rather, it has allowed itself the freedom to be transformed and move beyond the past in many ways and in doing so, transformed the greater world of contemporary music like no other genre ever has.

That seems to me to describe how "folk" has evolved too; from Cecil Sharp's piano arrangements via folk-rock and singer-songwriters to EFDSS's current promotion of "folk art" (which means newly-written material). We're entitled to our personal likes and dislikes among all that, but it has certainly "move(d) beyond the past in many ways".