Traditional Singers and singers of Trad

Subject: RE: Traditional Singers and singers of Trad
From: Robert B. Waltz
Date: 16 Mar 25 - 09:27 PM

Steve Shaw wrote: Mudcat is American. America is the land of free speech, I'm told.

Don't misunderstand the first amendment. It says (despite what Donald Trump thinks) that the government can't stop you from saying what you want.

This has nothing whatsoever to do with what you can say in a personal, private, or corporate context. If you come into my house and say, "Vaccines cause autism" or "Vladimir Putin is not a war criminal," I can and will throw you out as someone too stupid to be allowed in a civilized home. Facebook or Mudcat have similar rights to restrict speech. Often such restrictions come about to prevent fights or to help preserve other rights.

Furthermore, even the first amendment restriction on government restrictions on speech is not absolute. For example, the support groups I facilitate for the Autism Society of America cannot discuss politics or religion (or the practice of medicine). This is required by the rules concerning non-profit groups that take government money. (Other non-profits are somewhat freer, but the point is, the government can restrict speech in exchange for certain other privileges.)

I know that Joe does take steps to keep the peace around here. That is within his rights -- this is a service he offers to you, not a guarantee of users' abilities to spout off on irrelevant things. But I wouldn't get paranoid about it -- it appears Joe deleted (or something) one of my posts about my best-ever guitar, not because it violated any sort of speech rights but because my favorite guitar was a 12-string guitar and not a 6-string! :-)

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Is this (click) your missing post?
-Joe-

Subject: RE: Traditional Singers and singers of Trad
From: GUEST,paperback
Date: 16 Mar 25 - 11:34 PM

During the Pseudo-crisis we had freedom of speech but you had to watch what you said and eversince this has become new normal and used as a bludgeon by gatekeepers everywhere.

I like Shaw:), he's been never rude, just calls a spade a spade even when the mods are calling clubs. I like to imagine he sounds like Rex Harrison lol.

Chin up old chap nobody said life was fair

PS I still hold Shaw would make a great 11 PM till 8 AM moderator (not that the British ever cause any trouble)

Subject: RE: Traditional Singers and singers of Trad
From: Joe Offer
Date: 17 Mar 25 - 12:52 AM

But I think we've been off topic for far too long. Thread is closed.
-Joe-

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One closing note from Richard Mellish:

Joe,

The "Traditional Singers and singers of Trad" thread had drifted way off topic onto matters that are better avoided, so you were not wrong to close it, but I only saw it just now and would have wished to post something germane. Anything to be done about that?

Here's what I wished to say.

There is a distinction between the OP's categories but they overlap rather than being clearly separated.

I was recently at the "Traditional Sing" weekend at Moreton-in-Marsh. It is one of the closest approximations now existing to the "National" folk music festivals in England that used to mix traditional/source/whatever-you-want-to-call-them singers and revivalists. But the former have mostly died out. There were a few at Moreton, but one who is generally considered to be in that category, Jeff Wesley, freely acknowledges having got much of his repertoire from folk clubs, as did one of those already mentioned in the thread, Fred Jordan.

Gordon Hall learnt songs from his mother but also searched print sources for additional material. And what about Jeannie Robertson getting one of her ballads from Jean Ritchie?

And then there's this from the great Jean Ritchie herself.