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Origins: Barbara Allen (different versions)

DigiTrad:
BARBARA ALLEN
BARBARA ALLEN (2)
BARBARA ALLEN (5)
BARBARA ELLEN (3)
BAWBEE ALLAN


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Lyr Req: Barbara Allen (from Shirley Collins) (2)
Lyr Req: Barbara Allen (from Susan Reed) (5)
Lyr Req: Barbara Allen (from Hedy West) (3)
Lyr Req: Barb'ry Allen (from Tom Rush) (6)
Lyr Req: Barbara Allen (from Jimmy Stewart) (4)
Lyr Req: Barbara Allen (from Fred Jordan) (5)
Barbara Allen in '30's Film (37)
Lyr Req: Barbara Allen (7)
Lyr Req: Barbara Ellen / Barbara Allen (15)


Roberto 31 Dec 04 - 11:34 AM
GUEST,Art Thieme 09 Jun 07 - 05:23 PM
Sandra in Sydney 09 Jun 07 - 10:17 PM
GUEST,Gene 09 Jun 07 - 11:07 PM
GUEST,Art Thieme 09 Jun 07 - 11:23 PM
katlaughing 10 Jun 07 - 12:22 AM
GUEST,Art Thieme 10 Jun 07 - 01:39 PM
GUEST 11 Jun 07 - 03:56 AM
GUEST,Art Thieme 11 Jun 07 - 08:53 PM
GUEST 12 Jun 07 - 03:14 PM
pavane 05 Nov 07 - 10:20 AM
Jeremiah McCaw 05 Nov 07 - 11:09 AM
Q (Frank Staplin) 05 Nov 07 - 12:38 PM
Malcolm Douglas 05 Nov 07 - 01:31 PM
pavane 06 Nov 07 - 04:34 AM
Mick Tems 06 Nov 07 - 11:25 AM
The Sandman 06 Nov 07 - 11:32 AM
The Sandman 17 Jan 10 - 01:27 PM
MGM·Lion 17 Jan 10 - 01:58 PM
MGM·Lion 17 Jan 10 - 03:34 PM
Bill D 17 Jan 10 - 09:36 PM
MGM·Lion 17 Jan 10 - 10:53 PM
MGM·Lion 17 Jan 10 - 10:55 PM
Ross Campbell 19 Jan 10 - 02:28 AM
Paul Burke 19 Jan 10 - 02:08 PM
The Sandman 27 Jul 24 - 01:10 PM
GUEST,German Bight 03 Aug 24 - 07:35 AM
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: 'Barbara Allen' different versions
From: Roberto
Date: 31 Dec 04 - 11:34 AM

Dick Greenhaus, I am not amazed that Barbara Allen has been in the tradition for centuries. It is a powerful archetypical ballad. The rose and briar motif; the grim content behind; the magic (the basin full of tears; the golden watch and the guinea gold chain, etc) and Barbara Allen being maybe a witch; her wild laughter when she sees his corpse; jealousy, cruelty and revenge; love and death; the unknown reasons for him to slight her in public; his discounsolate death, etc, etc, etc. What would you want more? And the tunes, so many different tunes, and yet sharing something in common: a family of tunes. Yesterday I was reading The Volsung Saga. The character of Brynhildr in there has a lot of Barbara Allen. She makes the only man she ever loved die, for jealousy and revenge, and for some sort of consequence she dies very soon after. She laughs when she knows for certain he's dead, just like Barbara Allen in many versions. She, instead of him, is very ill and lies in her bed (until she revenges herself). And then there are the magnificent versions of Barbara Allen we could get from traditional singers and in the revival of traditional music: the ones sung by Jane Turriff, Carolyne Hughes, Phoebe Smith, Sarah Makem, Elizabeth Cronin, Jean Ritchie, Texas Gladden, Lucy Stewart, Bob Hart, Phil Tanner, Fred Jordan, Sam Larner, Joe Heaney, Jimmy Stewart, Martin Carthy, Norma Waterson, Ewan MacColl, Gordeanna McCulloch, Jean Redpath, Mary Humphreys, Nic Jones, Jody Stecher, and many more.


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Subject: Lyr Add: COWBOY'S BARBARA ALLEN (from Art Thieme)
From: GUEST,Art Thieme
Date: 09 Jun 07 - 05:23 PM

This is pretty much the way the words go to the version of B.A. I got from Del Bray (or Dave Bray) in our cheapo hotel room across from the train station in Cheyenne, Wyoming (1962) School chum, Mike Sideman, and I were doing the Guthrie/Kerouac thing---my first trip to the West Coast by car. Our hotel had a workingman's bar on the street level, and that is where we met Del Bray who was a beat-up retired cowboy. I'd had my guitar in the bar and he said he had picked in his youth. The jukebox was on LOUD so we got a 6-pack and went to our hotel room to swap some songs. At one point I asked him if he knew any story songs. Del sang this and I wrote it down in shorthand on a scrap of paper and stashed it in my guitar case. I never thought about it being a unique form of this song--and I didn't think to ask him where it came from or if he had written it. (I was 20 years old and 2 beers put me to sleep back then.) A couple of years later, I found those song notations folded up in the case. The tune is just the way I remembered it after the fact. But I remember really liking the Medicine Bow reference---and especially the "Made all the boys ride saddle sore" line.

Also, I realized later that the "marker rocks" put on the pretty shallow graves out west were to try to keep coyotes and wolves from digging up a dead body.

We had getting back the road on our minds, and the next morning we headed west. I never did hear of or from Del (Dave?) Bray again.

Mike and I wound up in San Francisco and then in Monterrey and Salinas, California. John Steinbeck was important to me then and still is--so we sought out those places he wrote about. Big Sur and Henry Miller territory as well. Never did find Tom Joad though! But Canary Row was there in Monterrey, and so was what was left of Doc's (Ed Ricketts') marine biology specimens lab. There was a John Steinbeck motion picture theater on the street, ten antique shops, and places to buy taffy. It was pretty sad. Still, it was THE AMAZING OCEAN----the end of the country---the dropping-off place. (I loved the coast--and when Carol and I were married in '67, we migrated to Oregon's coast to live for a while.)

After California, Mike and I, eventually, left the car in El Paso, Texas, and took a bus 2400 miles (round trip for $24.00--a penny a mile) to Mexico City and back. But that's another story...

I called Del's song "Cowboy's Barbara Allen". Here it is pretty much the way I first did it...

Near Medicine Bow where I was born,
There was a fair maid dwellin',
Made all the boys ride saddle sore,
And her name was Barbara Allen,
And her name was Barbara Allen.

Was in the merry month of May,
The green buds they were swellin',
Young Billy/Jimmy come to the western range,
Come a-courtin' Barbara Allen,
Come a-courtin' Barbara Allen.

'Twas in the merry month of June,
Green leaves they was bloomin',
Young Billy on his death-bed lay,
Just for lovin' Barbara Allen,
Just for lovin' Barbara Allen.

We sent a message out to her,
To the place where she was dug in,
Sayin', "Come and see young Bill today,
For I think that he is dying,
I think that he's a-dyin'."

Slowly, slowly she got up,
Slowly she went to him,
And when she pulled the blanket back
Said, "Bill, I guess you're dying,
Bill, I guess you're dying."

"Yes, I'm sick, I'm very sick.
I never will get better,
Until I get the love of you,
The love of Barbara Allen,
The love of Barbara Allen."

She went walkin' back through the brush,
She heard the cattle moanin',
And every moan they seemed to say,
Hard-hearted Barbara Allen,
Hard-hearted Barbara Allen.

Father, oh, father, go dig my grave,
Dig it deep and narrow,
Young Billy died for me today,
I'm gonna die for him tomorrow,
Gonna die for him tomorrow."

We buried her in the old churchyard,
Bill, his grave was nigh her,
And from his grave grew a red, red rose,
And from hers grew a brier,
And from hers grew a brier.

They tangled round the marker rocks,
They could not grow no higher,
And there they tied a true love knot,
The rose and the thorny brier,
The rose and the thorny brier.

In Medicine Bow where I was born,
The was a fair maid dwellin',
Made all the boys ride saddle sore,
And her name was Barbara Allen,
And her name was Barbara Allen.

(Art Thieme for Del Bray)


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: 'Barbara Allen' different versions
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 09 Jun 07 - 10:17 PM

Art, I love that song, many thanks for posting it & how you found it.

sandra


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: 'Barbara Allen' different versions
From: GUEST,Gene
Date: 09 Jun 07 - 11:07 PM

The best version of Barbara Allen I ever heard was by
Tommy Faile, Writer of Red Sovine's Phantom 309.

and the best version of the tune of Barbara Allen I ever heard was
by Johnny Cash, new lyrics titled The Ballad Of Barbara.

Try 'em U'll Like 'em.

CN8GV9@aim.com


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: 'Barbara Allen' different versions
From: GUEST,Art Thieme
Date: 09 Jun 07 - 11:23 PM

Lets see, a few additional bits...

1) It ought to be "the month of May" and "the month of June." NOT the "moth" of May and June.

2) If there were verses about 'Do you remember in yonder town---you drank a toast to ladies all but slighted Barbara Allen'---well, I never wrote 'em down for some reason. But that was 45 years ago. This was how it got saved. So, I guess this'll have to be it.

3) I do think that the line about 'The place where she was dug in' is obliquely taking note of the fact that she probably was living in a sod house where the building blocks had to be dug from the prairie ground.

4) I recorded Cowboy's Barbara Allen twice. The first time was on my very first LP album in the 1970s--on Kicking Mule Records--KM 150--Art Thieme-Outright Boldfaced Lies--Live At The Old Town School Of Folk Music.
All of Kicking Mule was sold to the jazz label Fantasy Records and they are sitting on those tapes--probably until I pass on.

The second time I put the song out, I took some old concert tapes from the 1970s and '80s and put together my 1998 CD called The Older I Get, The Better I Was--on Waterbug Records. It's available at: www.waterbug.com

Art


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: 'Barbara Allen' different versions
From: katlaughing
Date: 10 Jun 07 - 12:22 AM

And, thanks to you and the Mudcat, Art, that version of BA has been heard in Wyoming, again, when my sister and I performed as "Folkfyre." It remains my very favourite version, partly because of its Wyoming references, but mostly because it came from you. And, you are spot on about the "dug-in being a "dug-out" or sod house, I am sure, as well as the marker rocks, etc. Thanks, again, my friend for your priceless Fine Art.:-)


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: 'Barbara Allen' different versions
From: GUEST,Art Thieme
Date: 10 Jun 07 - 01:39 PM

Dick Greenhaus,

I always felt that Michael Cooney got it right when he noted that this song was about two peop[le whose baggage kept 'em from communicating---and that's what led to the trgic end of both of their lives.

To me, that's Classic Tragedy in the Aristotilian sense. It's both their flaws--mainly hers-- that were their downfall. If she'd only been honest about how she felt about the guy. She loved him, but possibly didn't realize that fact until the guilt trip resulted in his death.

Art


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: 'Barbara Allen' different versions
From: GUEST
Date: 11 Jun 07 - 03:56 AM

For the best selection of U.S. Barbara Allen versions see Folkways albums totally devoted to traditional versions of the ballad edited by Charles Seeger.
I was once told that all Folkways albums are still available - true?
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: 'Barbara Allen' different versions
From: GUEST,Art Thieme
Date: 11 Jun 07 - 08:53 PM

Jim,
Folkways is now called SMITHSONIAN FOLKWAYS. Google that and there they all will be. Even the one titled SOUNDS OF NORTH AMERICAN FROGS.

Another great record of Barbara Allen variants was issued on LP by the old Archive Of Folk Song at the Library Of Congress in Washington D.C. They are now the ARCHIVE OF FOLK CULTURE.

My favorite version on that album is sung unaccompanied by Rebecca Tarwater if I'm remembering it right. Several tracks were not complete but you did get to hear the tune and the singing style. But Ms Tarwater's singing of the ballad was the complete song---as were other exceptional field collected performances on the record.
I figure it ought to be a CD by now!

Art Thieme


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: 'Barbara Allen' different versions
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Jun 07 - 03:14 PM

Thanks Art,
It was the Lib. of Cong. album I was thinking of.
The I J (?) Marlor track is the one I remember.
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: 'Barbara Allen' different versions
From: pavane
Date: 05 Nov 07 - 10:20 AM

Not sure if this was one of the older songs mentioned by (the late) Bruce O.

It is very old, and certainly has the rose and briar verse

http://bodley24.bodley.ox.ac.uk/cgi-bin/acwwweng/ballads/image.pl?ref=Douce+Ballads+1(72a)&id=15155.gif&seq=1&size=1>Fair Margaret's misfortune


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: 'Barbara Allen' different versions
From: Jeremiah McCaw
Date: 05 Nov 07 - 11:09 AM

Not quite off-topic, but a definite tangent - I hear an interesting parallel between BA and a current song out by Allison Krause & Brad Paisley called "Whiskey Lullaby".


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: 'Barbara Allen' different versions
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 05 Nov 07 - 12:38 PM

Pavanne, see Child # 74, Fair Margaret and Sweet William.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: 'Barbara Allen' different versions
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 05 Nov 07 - 01:31 PM

The 'two earlier songs' that Bruce referred to were 'The dying Young-man and the obdurate Maid' (c.1655-1663/4), and 'The Ruined Lovers' (1663-74). His transcriptions of both can be seen at http://www.csufresno.edu/folklore/Olson/SONGTXT2.HTM#RUNDLVR. Bruce suspected that 'Barbara Allen' was based on the former, but the scenario was hardly uncommon.

The rose-and-briar episode doesn't occur in surviving early examples of 'Barbara Allen', and was presumably borrowed later on from one of a number of different songs that use it. 'Fair Margaret's Misfortune' (Douce Ballads 1(72a), dated c. 1720, though Child thought 'end of the 17th century': see link above) would be one possibility.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: 'Barbara Allen' different versions
From: pavane
Date: 06 Nov 07 - 04:34 AM

Thanks Malcolm


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: 'Barbara Allen' different versions
From: Mick Tems
Date: 06 Nov 07 - 11:25 AM

Don't forget the marvellous version of Barbara Allen sung by Phil Tanner of Llangennith, West Gower (thanks, Roberto.) It is issued on The Gower Nightingale (Veteran VT145CD).


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: 'Barbara Allen' different versions
From: The Sandman
Date: 06 Nov 07 - 11:32 AM

inmy opinion,there are two verses that are outstanding in this song,the briar and rose verse and:
As she walked down those long stairsteps,she heard the small birds singing,and every voice it seemed to say hard hearted Barbry Allen.Dick Miles.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: 'Barbara Allen' different versions
From: The Sandman
Date: 17 Jan 10 - 01:27 PM

"made all the boys ride saddle sore", the mind boggles,is there an impication that she was a nymphomaniac.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: 'Barbara Allen' different versions
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 17 Jan 10 - 01:58 PM

As I have related elsewhere, particularly in interview which Bob Thomson & I did with him year before he died, & which I pub'd in Folk Review in 1953, Harry Cox declared adamantly that anyone who sang Barbara Allen with the rose&briar had it wrong — 'They're mixed up,' he declared, ' that don't belong there, that comes in Lord Lovely [sic]!'


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: 'Barbara Allen' different versions
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 17 Jan 10 - 03:34 PM

I meant, of course, Folk Review in 1973 in above post re Harry Cox interview. Sorry


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: 'Barbara Allen' different versions
From: Bill D
Date: 17 Jan 10 - 09:36 PM

Hmm...an old thread which I missed.

Such is technology that folks who enumerate such things have now catalogued over 200 recorded 'version', some of which are obviously very similar to others.

I have various things by Harry Cox, but not his singing of Barbry...


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: 'Barbara Allen' different versions
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 17 Jan 10 - 10:53 PM

... & it doesn't appear on Harry's Topic "Bonny Labouring Boy" collection, to listed at back of booklet as part of his known repertoire.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: 'Barbara Allen' different versions
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 17 Jan 10 - 10:55 PM

.. I meant "THO listed..." of course; there is a gremlin {or a fairy or a pixie - see THAT thread!} in my WP to be sure!


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: 'Barbara Allen' different versions
From: Ross Campbell
Date: 19 Jan 10 - 02:28 AM

About a year before he died, my uncle mentioned a few songs that his father (my grandfather, who died in 1957 aged eighty-four) used to sing. One of them was Barbara Allan. My uncle couldn't remember any lines, and I have been wondering which of the many versions my grandfather might have known.

Mudcat often seems to come up with answers to questions you hadn't quite formulated, so I'll be coming back to this thread later. Sarah Makem's version seems a likely candidate, as my mother's side of the family are all in Northern Ireland.

Ross


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: 'Barbara Allen' different versions
From: Paul Burke
Date: 19 Jan 10 - 02:08 PM

... And all she said, when there she came,
"Young man, I think you're Brian..."


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Barbara Allen (different versions)
From: The Sandman
Date: 27 Jul 24 - 01:10 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CsJNCJUU4rE


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Barbara Allen (different versions)
From: GUEST,German Bight
Date: 03 Aug 24 - 07:35 AM

"Young man, I think you're Mayan..."


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