Origin: Long Black Veil

Subject: RE: Origin: Long Black Veil
From: Ron Davies
Date: 02 Nov 13 - 07:36 AM

I agree that this is a a great song, a well-crafted song, a fun song to sing, and one very much in the tradition of Appalachian ballads.

But--it's been done an awful lot by bluegrass bands, and requested of them even when they had not planned to do it..

And so, at a bluegrass festival years ago I heard an adjustment to part of the lyrics of the last verse:

"Now the scaffold is high and eternity near
She stood in the crowd and had hotdogs and beer."

I can't remember if, having sung that, they even finished the song.

Subject: RE: Origin: Long Black Veil
From: Janie
Date: 02 Nov 13 - 09:05 AM

Lefty's recording, Hoot. Becky linked to it in her above post.

Subject: RE: Origin: Long Black Veil
From: GUEST,Hootenanny
Date: 02 Nov 13 - 02:51 PM

Janie,

I listened to Lefty Frizell along with the others and include his version as not at all to my taste, not very convincing.

Hoot

Subject: RE: Origin: Long Black Veil
From: Joe Offer
Date: 08 Aug 22 - 05:56 PM

So, is this traditional, or not? I said trad, and people at the Mudcat Singaround corrected me.

See http://theband.hiof.no/articles/long_black_veil_viney.html

My own message quotes Sing Your Heart Out, Country Boy saying it was written by Danny Dill and published in 1959.

But another message from Malcolm Douglas says the song is traditional, so who's a person to believe? Joe Offer or Malcolm Douglas? Personally, I'd believe Malcolm.

-Joe-

Subject: RE: Origin: Long Black Veil
From: GerryM
Date: 08 Aug 22 - 11:43 PM

Joe, MMario gave that same link way back in the 2nd post in this thread. It confirms what I've read elsewhere, except for its allegation that Dill was the composer of Streets of Laredo, an allegation that has been laughed out of court elsewhere on this thread.

I read on another site the author's opinion that it was the greatest country song ever, and that one of the things in its favor is that it's so great you can't sing it badly. Then I looked elsewhere and saw folks suggest Johnny Cash sang it badly, Joni Mitchell sang it badly, Joan Baez sang it badly, Lefty Frizzell sang it badly, Mick Jagger sang it badly....

Anyway, I think the preponderance of evidence is that it's correctly attributed to Dill and Wilkin, circa 1959.

Subject: RE: Origin: Long Black Veil
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Aug 22 - 08:52 AM

Johnny Cash covered LBV on 'Live from Folsom Prison' LP.
The voice, the venue and the lyrics are just spooky.

Subject: RE: Origin: Long Black Veil
From: Mrrzy
Date: 12 Aug 22 - 11:02 PM

Um, perfect country song? It doesn't exactly mention prison, and where are mama, a train, a truck, and getting drunk?

[I couldn't resist.]

Subject: RE: Origin: Long Black Veil
From: GerryM
Date: 13 Aug 22 - 12:58 AM

Mrrzy must be referring to

I was drunk the day my mama got out of prison
And I went to pick her up in the rain
But before I could get to the station in the pickup truck
She got ran over by a damned old train.

from Steve Goodman's You Never Even Called Me By My Name.

Subject: RE: Origin: Long Black Veil
From: GUEST,Guest Joan F
Date: 13 Aug 22 - 09:40 AM

Those of us who learned it from Joan Baez, who sings it *goodly*, always flinch when we hear people singing "there were few at the scene" instead of "the people at the scene" even though "few" is how it turns out to have been written.

Better to flinch at why if you were gonna stab somebody on a *dark* night you would choose the town hall light to do it 'neath.

Need to make sure you've got the right stabbee?

Subject: RE: Origin: Long Black Veil
From: GUEST,Guest Joan F
Date: 13 Aug 22 - 09:47 AM

My version of the Goodman song goes:

I got drunk the day my Ma got outta prison
Took my dog & went to fetch her in the rai-ai-ai-ain
But before I could pick her up
In my good old pickup truck
She went & got run over by a damned old train

At this point I don't know if I heard Steve do it like this or its mine own embellishment.

Subject: RE: Origin: Long Black Veil
From: GerryM
Date: 13 Aug 22 - 06:34 PM

Joan, Goodman may have done it different ways on different occasions. In a live performance posted to https://youtu.be/8QUSQJQml40 he sings,

Ever since the dog got drunk and died, and Momma went to prison,
Why, nothing 'round this farm's been the same.
John, you know, when Mom broke out last Christmas,
She drove that old getaway laundry truck right into a train.

I think John Prine must have been in the wings, otherwise I'm not sure what the "John" in line three is about. Then there's a live performance with John Prine at https://youtu.be/J0J1ISJLRb0 where they sing,

Ever since the day my Momma went to prison,
There's nothin' 'round this farm that's been the same.
You know that when they let her out last Tuesday,
She drove her pickup truck into a train.

So, you may well have heard him do it the way you remember it.

Subject: RE: Origin: Long Black Veil
From: GUEST,Jerome Clark
Date: 14 Aug 22 - 11:49 AM

I think it's hilarious that Robbie Robertson thinks Danny Dill wrote "Streets of Laredo."

In the real world, "Cowboy's Lament" -- now better known as "Streets of Laredo" -- was written and published in 1876. Francis Henry Maynard, who wrote the lyrics to a traditional tune, was an actual cowboy. The melody was/is related to "Bard of Armagh," "Handful of Laurel," "Unfortunate Rake," and others united by a common theme of a young man's untimely death.

In the late 1950s and '60s country songwriters and stars wrote and/or performed pseudo-folk songs to cash in on the folk boom. (Arkansas folksinger/composer Jimmy Driftwood contributed "Battle of New Orleans" to Johnny Horton, as but one of many examples.) "Long Black Veil" was composed in the fashion of a traditional ballad for a growing popular audience then attracted to that sort of thing. Lefty Frizzell had a hit with it, but the first version I heard was on a folk-oriented mid-1960s Johnny Cash album;

Subject: RE: Origin: Long Black Veil
From: GerryM
Date: 14 Aug 22 - 06:15 PM

*I think it's hilarious that Robbie Robertson thinks Danny Dill wrote "Streets of Laredo."*

Jerome, I'm sure Robbie Robertson knows that Danny Dill didn't write Streets Of Laredo. A closer look at the post to which you are probably responding makes it clear that it was Peter Viney, not Robbie Robertson, who made that attribution.

Viney has a music blog at https://peterviney.com/peter-viney-music-rock-the-band-record-cover/

Subject: RE: Origin: Long Black Veil
From: GUEST,Jerome Clark
Date: 15 Aug 22 - 10:03 AM

Okay. I think it's hilarious that Peter Viney thinks Danny Dill wrote "Streets of Laredo."

Some years ago a prominent folk deejay remarked to me, "I didn't know John Stewart wrote 'Jesse James'." He wasn't being sarcastic.

Since traditional music is in the public domain, anyone can claim composer credits and attendant royalties for a particular song. Most listeners of any sophistication understand that. (The proper attribution should read, "Trad. Arr.," of course.) I'm always surprised when I come upon someone sufficiently naive to think, say, that Danny Dill wrote "Streets of Laredo."

Subject: RE: Origin: Long Black Veil
From: GerryM
Date: 15 Aug 22 - 11:16 PM

I've now had some correspondence with Peter Viney. He writes, "No idea where I got that from!"
Whatever he may have thought when he made that post in 1998, he certainly knows now that Danny Dill didn't write Strets Of Laredo.

He says the website where he made the incorrect attribution is "frozen" and regrets that he can't correct it.

Hey, we all make mistakes. I used to be certain that "spatula" was Yiddish, and "tiramisu" Japanese or Korean.

Subject: RE: Origin: Long Black Veil
From: GUEST,Guest Joan F
Date: 18 Aug 22 - 10:17 AM

I honestly grew up thinking "galore" was a Yiddish word. It is of course Irish Gaelic. But we (Jews) really needed it, so we took it.