Modern Blues Players, your thoughts.

Subject: RE: Modern Blues Players, your thoughts.
From: Mark Clark
Date: 12 Feb 02 - 10:34 PM

Lonesome EJ mentioned Mike Bloomfield but I think his name bears repeating. He wasn't just an accomplished guitarist, he got inside the blues and brought it back out, just the way it was supposed to sound.

Duke Robillard is another of my farorites. I catch his show whenever he's in the area.

      - Mark

Subject: RE: Modern Blues Players, your thoughts.
From: Rolfyboy6
Date: 13 Feb 02 - 01:00 AM

Iceboy, I concur with your observation. Most Mudcatters have only a passing exposure to blues roots and style families. An exception is ddw, yet he has rejected all electric blues unlike the blues people themselves. As Mark notes Bloomfield was good, I wonder if his many fans are aware of how much he owed to Magic Sam.

Subject: RE: Modern Blues Players, your thoughts.
From: M.Ted
Date: 13 Feb 02 - 01:03 AM

Thanks for quoting me, ddw--my head is spinning! I think I said that BB King had 4 licks, taken from 8 licks from T-Bone Walker, taken from from Blind Lemon Jefferson, who used 16 licks in the same song--in the Blind Lemon thread--and, though it isn't exactly true, it is close to the point--

I don't listen much to the latter day blues boys, though I respect them for carrying on the music, I think that the book is pretty much closed on Blues guitar--especially the kind ddw likes--the world that created the music has disappeared, and won't be back, neither will the music--

How about Dr. Ross, ddw? He's right up your alley, a one man band, loaded with the real blues--used to hear him years ago when the post war blues world still lived in Detroit--

Subject: RE: Modern Blues Players, your thoughts.
From: GUEST,Iceboy
Date: 13 Feb 02 - 05:55 AM

Does anyone here agree that Lonnie Johnson is the missing link between country blues and late-sixties B.B.? His brilliance in D/C position and his focus on that position box based around the g-b-e strings with root on the b is something you never hear B.B. talk about, but Lonnie Johnson mapped it out and used it like he owned it! The late sixies to present are not my favorite era of B.B., but I think his style in that period owes Lonnie Johnson a huge debt that's never beeen acknowledged. Re: Bloomfield; he got a lot from the Westsiders, yes, maybe from Otis Rush more than anyone, but he was so damn busy most of the time! He lacked impact and focus for this reason. Duke Roillard's an outstanding guitarist, no doubt. Seems to balance technical proficiency with passion, imagination, taste, and an encyclopedic stylistic knowledge as well as anyone I know of. B.B. influenced hugely by T-Bone? Hard to buy. I'm sure he was a great admirer of T-Bone's, but his sound and phrasing don't sound similar. I'd put him closer to Joe Willie Wilkins, Pete Lewis, and Willie Johnson.

Subject: RE: Modern Blues Players, your thoughts.
From: Tweed
Date: 13 Feb 02 - 07:27 AM

Dr. Ross still lives, MTed? More info on that please!

Subject: RE: Modern Blues Players, your thoughts.
From: C-flat
Date: 13 Feb 02 - 10:01 AM

I don't think anyone's mentioned Robben Ford yet! A great nodern blues player with some original licks.

Subject: RE: Modern Blues Players, your thoughts.
From: M.Ted
Date: 13 Feb 02 - 01:41 PM

I believe that Dr. Ross has passed, but I don't know any details--sorry if I created a wrong impression. As per BB King--my recollection is that his signature lick was first used by T-Bone--the Chuck Berry lick was earlier used by T-Bone as well--Walker was a lot like Lonnie Johnson in that he was an inventive, progressive player, and his records were widely listened and drawn on by other musicians, many of whom built their styles around what they picked up--

Subject: RE: Modern Blues Players, your thoughts.
From: GUEST,Iceboy
Date: 13 Feb 02 - 06:11 PM

Listen to L. Johnson's Bedbug Blues. I think you'll hear more post-'62' B.B in there than you will in any T-Bone recordings. T-Bone and L. Johnson were similar only in the sense that they were both hugely influential. I don't recall what song or songs T-Bone may have used the B.B. signature lick on, if any. He sort of hints at it in the head to "Two Bones and a Pick." I still think his influence was wider with the Texas and West Coast guys like Pee-Wee Crayton, Gatemouth, Collins, Pete Lewis, etc. than with any of the modern Mississippi and Chicago guys. Mississippi was listening to what was happening in Memphis, and to Louis Jordan, while the Southwest and West Coast seemed more focused on Kansas City and Count Basie. By the way, I think that Chuck Berry lick you mentioned came to him from T-Bone via T-Bone's efforts to imitate Lester Young's tenor.

Subject: RE: Modern Blues Players, your thoughts.
From: ddw
Date: 13 Feb 02 - 06:28 PM

Rolfy —— I don't exactly reject all electric players out of hand, I just don't think they're as complex or interesting as the old guys. As I said above, there are some post-war players I like to listen to, but I have to admit there are more bass and harp players there than guitarists. Sorry, the scream vocals that came up after the '60s (KoKo Taylor, Buddy Guy, Janice Joplin, Big Mama Thornton, etc) and one-note-at-a-time guitarists just don't turn my crank. I can still listen to Howlin' Wolf, Muddy, T-Bone and some others, but given a choice I'd rather listen to the old Piedmont guys.

M.Ted. -- You're welcome. And thank you for such a succinct way of putting what I've been trying to say.

I have to admit Dr. Ross is a gap in my education. I'm aware of him, but have never heard more than the odd cut on a compilation. He's on a long list of people I'm trying to get around to.

cheers,

david

Subject: RE: Modern Blues Players, your thoughts.
From: M.Ted
Date: 13 Feb 02 - 11:34 PM

ddw--I like a lot of electric guitar players, as well, but the music and the musicians I like the best all end up being pretty old--even the jazz and classical music I like ends up being older--

As for you Iceboy, different people hear different things I guess--

Subject: RE: Modern Blues Players, your thoughts.
From: GUEST
Date: 14 Feb 02 - 10:23 AM

The Blues, like other musical genres, is flexible. It expands and contracts with the passage of time, and changes with the milieu in which it evolves. Mozart was considered revolutionary in his day (he put 'too many notes' into his music); jazz expands to cover hybrids like 'fusion' in which jazz greats like Miles Davis were instrumental. Country music absorbs the influences of Hank Williams and Chet Atkins, to become something else markedly different from what it started out to be, yet it can still be classified as 'country.'

The Blues is expansive enough to include guys like Hendrix, Clapton, and Page when they're paying tribute to the influences that spawned their styles. It all boils down to how narrow one wants to define his/her parameters.

Subject: RE: Modern Blues Players, your thoughts.
From: M.Ted
Date: 14 Feb 02 - 11:18 AM

I don't think the milieu that created blues is there anymore, and neither is that milieu that Hendrix, Clapton, and Page were part of, let alone the Jazz scene that Miles came up in--things change so fast today that by the time people are aware that something is out there, "there" isn't there anymore--

Subject: RE: Modern Blues Players, your thoughts.
From: GUEST
Date: 14 Feb 02 - 02:52 PM

I disagree.

Historically, the Blues (at least in this country) arose from field hollers and gospel meetings, and served to relieve the dejectedness of slavery.

Universally speaking, however, the Blues deals with troubles, pain, heartbreak, whiskey, wimmins cheatin' on their mans, mans cheatin' on their wimmins, and other things...the stuff of everyday life. In that sense the milieu never changes, and probably never will.

What changes is the way these things are manifested, through advances in technology (the electric guitar), and what's deemed socially, culturally, and politically acceptable. For example, in Hendrix's 'Hey Joe' (not stictly a blues tune, admittedly, but the lyric is suggestive of a blues theme and serves as a convenient example), the protagonist shoots his woman when he finds out that she's been cheating on him. Today, that kind of violence toward women is socially and politically unacceptable, so I'd venture that not many modern blues tunes being written these days (at least the ones I've been listening to lately) - except by 'hardliners' like T-Model Ford, who seems to be from the 'old school' and whose style hearkens back to an earlier, John-Lee-Hooker era - by the likes of Robert Cray or Keb' Mo' are so blatantly direct in dealing with the problem of infidelity. That territory has been usurped by Rap, it seems.

The experimental '60's, in which the lines that defined the various styles of music were intentionally blurred, are no longer with us, agreed. But problems that bring on a case of the blues will be with us always. And artists will continue to sing about them, utilizing whatever tools technology or culture comes up with. In that sense the Blues will continue to be expansive.

What seems to be most enduring and tireless about the Blues genre is the I-IV-V pattern. That pattern, coupled with a slower tempo than rock, in most cases, seems the most definite way to recognize a song as belonging in the Blues category. Other chord patterns that deviate markedly from I-IV-V are used occasionally and these songs can qualify as Blues, but the Blues' signature style is I-IV-V, no matter how expansive the genre becomes. Perhaps, that, too, will someday change.

Subject: RE: Modern Blues Players, your thoughts.
From: M.Ted
Date: 14 Feb 02 - 05:25 PM

I actually like the arguement that someone put up on a recent thread that rap/hip-hop was today's blues--so perhaps the 12-bar structure has already gone by the wayside--

Subject: RE: Modern Blues Players, your thoughts.
From: ddw
Date: 14 Feb 02 - 06:16 PM

M.Ted —— a couple of points....

I can't agree with you on the milieu being gone. Don't know if you picked up on the thread I posted a while back with a link to the photography of Bill Steber, who spends a lot of his time in the Mississippi Delta photographing the people of that area and their way of life. I'll refresh the thread for you to have a look. Double click on the photos to enlare them enough to see them well.

As for rap/hip-hop being today's blues...

Thematically, maybe. But musically, today's noise is just signifying set to disco music, but without a lot of signifying's playfulness. Most rap is just angry/nasty/in-your-face assholeism, IMO. It may have replaced blues, but I think it's a real stretch to call it today's form of blues.

cheers,

david

Subject: RE: Modern Blues Players, your thoughts.
From: Rustic Rebel
Date: 15 Feb 02 - 12:44 AM

Jimmy Vaughan-He does that kind of roadhouse blues. He has a laid back but clean style. He can put out some sharp licks too. John Mooney and Jimmy Thackery playing together is delta groove. Coco Montoya- he played with John Mayall for years, went out on his own and he does some hot licks. Then there's Dave Hole. I think he comes from Australia. He can smoke up a guitar. Canned Heat,and another young person Shawn Pittman, I liked what I saw in him also. Rustic

Subject: RE: Modern Blues Players, your thoughts.
From: GUEST
Date: 07 Jan 05 - 12:57 PM

Jonny Lang

Subject: RE: Modern Blues Players, your thoughts.
From: s6k
Date: 07 Jan 05 - 01:10 PM

nothing will ever "replace" blues, blues will be around forever.

Music is transcendant, it cannot be replaced by other genres etc

Subject: RE: Modern Blues Players, your thoughts.
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 07 Jan 05 - 01:28 PM

69

Subject: RE: Modern Blues Players, your thoughts.
From: Tweed
Date: 07 Jan 05 - 02:30 PM

Here's a Modern Day Blues singer for you.

Slick Ballinger (short TweedMovie

Subject: RE: Modern Blues Players, your thoughts.
From: PoppaGator
Date: 07 Jan 05 - 03:56 PM

Thanks to the last two posters for reviving this old thread, which I missed first time around.

Speaking for myself, I like some of the old acoustic stuff and some of the newer electric stuff, too. My position on Jimi Hendrix is that he understood and performed the blues as well as anyone ever, which should not be negated by the fact that he explored other musical styles, too.

I *really* love Mississippi John Hurt, but I'm not sure his music (or Leadbelly's, or Josh White's) truly qualifies as "blues." My personal definition of The Blues rules out stuff that is "too folk" as well as the other extreme, "too rock." Doesn't mean I don't *like* music that's not the blues ~ just my personal filing system.

My single favorite blues recording of all time is Buddy Guy's "A Man and the Blues," really a set of duets with pianist Otis Spann backed with a rhythm section and, on some cuts, a horn section too. Most of the album (maybe half of the cuts, but the longest cuts) consists of the most excruciating s-l-o-o-o-o-w blues ever. The uptempo stuff is great, too, notably "Mary Had a Little Lamb."

I's like to add Chris Thomas King to the short list of contemporary young black acoustic blues players, along with Taj, Keb Mo, and Corey Harris. He's broadened his pop appeal now that he's a film actor ("Brother Where Art Thou" and one of the installments of the PBS "Blues" series), but his blues pedigree and personal qualifications can't be seriously challenged. His father, Tabby Thomas, has long been a mainstay of the Baton Rouge blues scene, both as a performer and as a club owner (Tabby's Blues Box).

I noticed that T-Bone Walker's name crept into the conversation without anyone first "listing" him as a fave. He was certainly a great one, and widely influential. Let me toss in the name of his protege Guitar Slim, notable at least for his one great signature tune, "The Things That I Used to Do."

And then there's Slim's protege, the recently deceased Earl King, a great songwriter and really more of an R&B/rock guy than a bluesman. Early in his career, Earl was sent out on the road under Slim's name ~ audiences on the chitlin circuit never know that he wasn't the "real" Guitar Slim (who preferred to stay home in New Orleans).

Subject: RE: Modern Blues Players, your thoughts.
From: GLoux
Date: 07 Jan 05 - 04:43 PM

Likewise, thanks for reviving this thread...

With regard to Mississippi John Hurt, I would say he's "country blues".

Also, no one has mentioned Rev. Gary Davis.

There's an interesting article in the January Acoustic Guitar magazine on Guy Davis. I've not yet heard him, but they say he's "old-fashioned country blues"...

-Greg

Subject: RE: Modern Blues Players, your thoughts.
From: Bobert
Date: 07 Jan 05 - 06:40 PM

Sniff....

Man, Tweezer, ya' really know how to hurt a guy... I jus' deciderated that I couldn't make it down fir the IBC, even though my homies at Archie Edwards Barber Shop is gettin' the KBA award and then you gotta go and stick that movie up there with Daniel...

Sniff....

Maybe the Handy's?

As fir other contemporary blues folks there are plenty good 'un's out there....

Corey Harris
Rory Block
John Hammond
Guy Davis
Me 'n Tweed *
Kelly Joe Phelps
etc...

Bobert

*Yeah, me and Tweed were 'sposed to play at the Super Bowl a couple years ago but we had to cancell out at the last minute 'cause we couldn't get tickets...

Subject: RE: Modern Blues Players, your thoughts.
From: Big Jim from Jackson
Date: 07 Jan 05 - 07:25 PM

Where does Dave van Ronk fit in all this? And what about Catfish Keith?

Subject: RE: Modern Blues Players, your thoughts.
From: Rory B
Date: 07 Jan 05 - 07:28 PM

My favorite Blues artist is dwditty. You should give him a listen if you love acoustic blues.

Subject: RE: Modern Blues Players, your thoughts.
From: GUEST,guest
Date: 07 Jan 05 - 08:41 PM

Hiya all

Yep   just Ted Hawkins and that old Huyton (Liverpool) baddie Lee Mavers...

Ddw 'nothing but the best is good enough' and your list surely is...
\

bye

Subject: RE: Modern Blues Players, your thoughts.
From: Bobert
Date: 07 Jan 05 - 10:11 PM

Yeah, Ted Hawkins is real good but din't he like die? Yeah, I'm sure he died....

As fir dwdiddy, I'z heared DW and and DW got the stuff....

Bobert

Subject: RE: Modern Blues Players, your thoughts.
From: Rory B
Date: 08 Jan 05 - 12:17 AM

I didn't have the address before I was at work....if you want to listen to dw a bit here is the site
dw's cd site