File anonymous guest complaints here

Subject: RE: File anonymous guest complaints here
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 14 Aug 01 - 12:47 PM

To unwrap Bald Eagle's apt offering:

Proverbs 17 v28: If a fool can hold his tongue, even he can pass for wise and pass for clever if he keeps his lips tight shut.

Subject: RE: File anonymous guest complaints here
From: mousethief
Date: 14 Aug 01 - 12:55 PM

Anonymous guests cannot be held accountable for their reasoning in any disputation, because they can always say "that wasn't me."

Anonymous guests cannot be held accountable for flaming or provocation for the same reason.

Anonymous guests who do not require being held accountable for either of these two reasons find themselves respected and treated accordingly.

Anonymous guests who post provocative, inflammatory, or absurd posts find themselves despised both for the offending post, and for being un-hold-accountable (if you will).

I fail to see how this is in any way dysfunctional.

Alex

Subject: RE: File anonymous guest complaints here
From: selby
Date: 14 Aug 01 - 01:30 PM

Does it realy matter as long as the discusion is joined constructivley (is that spelt right?)I would have thought that we are all inteligent enough to ignore the dross that appears masquarading as guest Keith

Subject: RE: File anonymous guest complaints here
From: GeorgeH
Date: 14 Aug 01 - 01:39 PM

If you're arguing with a fool - just remember that the other person is doing the same!

(To paraphrase Les Barker).

George

Subject: RE: File anonymous guest complaints here
From: GUEST
Date: 14 Aug 01 - 01:50 PM

McGrath,

For my rhetorical reflections upon Proverbs 17 v 28, see my post of 14 Aug 11:50 a.m. in the "This place is NOT..." thread.

Subject: RE: File anonymous guest complaints here
From: GUEST
Date: 14 Aug 01 - 02:11 PM

It's dysfunctional if the negative side of anonymity is always the focus.

Anonymous guests also cannot be held accountable if they do something positive, like supply an answer to a question, or if by chance they compose a beautiful piece of music or solve the mystery of the universe ... all of which makes accountability a moot point and content the important thing.

The issue of accountability deals with assigning blame or credit for something to an 'identity,' and treating that identity with animosity or respect, accordingly. Identity, blame, credit, respect and animosity don't matter to some people in this (and other) forums. They are less important to some than the content and composition of the information, ideas, or thoughts being expressed.

Granted, the contents of some anonymous messages are designed to inflame, provoke, and/or confound. Whether the objective of these messages is met depends in part on the composition and content of the message, but also on the attitudes of the reader.

On the other hand, the contents of some anonymous messages are designed to assist, inform, and/or enlighten. Whether the objective of these messages is met depends in large part on the composition and content of the message, but also on the attitudes of the reader.

Or as has been stated before, it's not who says it that's important, but what is being said, and how the reader lets it affect him/her.

Then again, it all boils down to what you want to believe. Not much anyone can do to change that, in either direction. So what's a mother to do?

Subject: RE: File anonymous guest complaints here
From: GeorgeH
Date: 14 Aug 01 - 02:55 PM

Guest -2: If you can't bother to identify yourself why the f**k do you think we should be interested in following your obscure links into other threads?

Guest -1: You have a perverse and peculiar concept of "dysfunctionality". Why does that not surprise me?

G.

Subject: RE: File anonymous guest complaints here
From: Kim C
Date: 14 Aug 01 - 03:50 PM

I don't care what anyone wants to call themselves as long as they play nice, and share their toys, and don't run with scissors or make fun of the other kids.

Subject: RE: File anonymous guest complaints here
From: MMario
Date: 14 Aug 01 - 04:07 PM

2:11 - I apologize that I am not enlightened enough that I can always maintain equilibrium when " the contents of some anonymous messages are designed to inflame, provoke, and/or confound. Whether the objective of these messages is met depends in part on the composition and content of the message, but also on the attitudes of the reader " Your statement is true.

Subject: RE: File anonymous guest complaints here
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 14 Aug 01 - 04:16 PM

There's a place for anonymity, but like any other behaviour it means different things in different places.

So if someone wants to do good without drawing attention to themselves, they might choose to do it anonymously, and that is honourable. Or they need to do something which might be risky, like blowing the whistle on wrongdoing by people who are in a position to hurt them, and the anonymity is sensible.

Or there's anonymity of a sort in masked performers in a dance, for example, or in a carnival.

And all those are different from the anonymity of a poison-pen writer, or a lynch-mob.

So where does the "anonymity" of people who choose to post without any kind of identifying symbol, even in the temporary context of a thread. Because of course, it's not about anonymity at all - GUEST1 is just as anonymous as GUEST, and the same is just as true if instead they post with a pseudonym. Nobody needs to identify themselves more than they choose to, and nobody suggests they should either. But then of course that's all been said over and over again.

The closest analogy is the anonymity of the prankster, who rings door bells, and lurks around to see people coming to the door and giggles. Which is harmless enough, if irritating. Most people play it as kids occasionally, and only some go on to the next stage up - fake 999 calls for the Fire Brigade and so forth. And the technically clever ones go on to making and unleashing computer viruses.

I suppose sneering at us and starting threads saying "look at me, I'm invisible" is harmless enough, and maybe it keeps him/her/them away from doing more serious damage elsewhere. So since there's nothing we can do to stop it, I suppose we should just ignore it.

And I'll revert from now on to my normal common sense practice of completely ignoring anything by the unnameable. Except maybe where it is clear from the context that it is just an accident, and not a bait paid by someone with dubious motives. Dubious because I can't begin to understand what they are - which is rather lucky on my part. (And they never explain do they? - beyond saying "there's no law against it, so it's all right for me to do it" which certainly isn't a way of saying why anyone should choose to do it.)

Subject: RE: File anonymous guest complaints here
From: GUEST,Trickster Coyote
Date: 14 Aug 01 - 04:27 PM

Ah McGrath, yer too easy a fool.

I love ringing doorbells and running away.

Throwing snowballs at cars.

Making crank phone calls.

Peek a boo and hide and seek.

Masquerades and Halloween.

Dressing up for hell of it.

Winding people up and pulling outrageous pranks.

Yes, some of us who are here playing with the lot of ya. Because we just love to play the trickster. It's a time honored tradition in my family. Its cheap, easy amusement during a heat wave.

All actions have good and evil consequences, of course, regardless of intention.

So you might as well enjoy life anyway, eh?

Remember, its only the internet...

Subject: RE: File anonymous guest complaints here
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 14 Aug 01 - 05:23 PM

But you stick your label on to the post, which changes the game. Puts the focus back where it should be, on whatever the trick might be.

Of course you might be an unnameable who's decided to use a label for once, but no harm there. But if you are, or were and and are therefore in a position to cast some light on why anyone might think it more fun, or for that matter more anonymous, to sign in as "GUEST" rather than as "GUEST,Trickster Coyote", why not do so?

If you post any response as GUEST, of course I'll never get to read it. I suppose it's possible someone else might. But since it's a great handle anyway I'd rather hope you'll keep it. Here is a page about your namesake

Subject: RE: File anonymous guest complaints here
From: Don Firth
Date: 14 Aug 01 - 09:03 PM

I swore I was never going to post to these threads again, but I do have to say this -- McGrath, there is wisdom in your words. I wish the world were a smaller place, so I'd could buy you a pint.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: File anonymous guest complaints here
From: GUEST,Trickster Coyote
Date: 14 Aug 01 - 09:29 PM

Yes McGrath, I can see why you recommended that page...right about your reading level, I'd say.

Subject: RE: File anonymous guest complaints here
From: GUEST,Dorothy Parker's Evil Twin
Date: 14 Aug 01 - 09:30 PM

Or just above it.

Subject: RE: File anonymous guest complaints here
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 14 Aug 01 - 10:22 PM

This one about the original Trickster Coyote figure is a little more sophisticated, but still pretty straightforward.

An interesting role model. I quote from the page I've just linked to: Coyote the trickster is an almost universal presence in Native American spiritual traditions. He created the world, taught human beings survival skills, and brought fire to warm up cold nights. Death came by his hand. He flung the Milky Way into the night sky. At the end of time, Coyote will return and bring all things to completion. His volatile personality, huge appetites for food and women, egotism, and love of mischief--cruel and simply silly--made him unpredictable and potentially dangerous.

Conversely, his epic foolishness caught him in one disastrous trap after another, making him a laughingstock before all of creation.

Much more fun than being nameless.

Subject: RE: File anonymous guest complaints here
From: GUEST,Dorothy's twin again
Date: 14 Aug 01 - 10:23 PM

McGrath, thanks for sharing the little you know.

Subject: RE: File anonymous guest complaints here
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 14 Aug 01 - 10:25 PM

And I'll treat myself to that pint Don. Or rather I'll buy you a pint as well, and drink it for you, and you can do the same.

Subject: RE: File anonymous guest complaints here
From: mousethief
Date: 15 Aug 01 - 12:14 AM

The aliens are getting restless, I see.

Subject: RE: File anonymous guest complaints here
From: Ebbie
Date: 15 Aug 01 - 12:19 PM

As to the coyote in folklore, it's interesting that almost the same role in Alaska is filled by Raven.

The Raven is the one who found and released Man, who tricked the sun's caregiver into letting him play with the sun and then threw the sun into the sky, so that we now have daylight... lots more.

What I like most about the raven is that s/he/it so obviously enjoys life.

Ebbie

Subject: RE: File anonymous guest complaints here
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 15 Aug 01 - 01:51 PM

Same thinking presumably lies behind Max having "loki" as one of the servers for Mudcat.