Training detracts from 'soul' of music?

Subject: RE: Training detracts from 'soul' of music?
From: GUEST,irishajo
Date: 07 May 02 - 09:02 AM

You all have given me a lot to think about. Thanks so much for the very interesting responses.

Two more thoughts that have occurred to me while reading these posts:

1. How does one find a good teacher (lamarca already started a thread about this - so I won't.)

2. A question about style, which I started a thread for here. Don Firth talked about this question here, I just thought the idea deserved its own thread.

Subject: RE: Training detracts from 'soul' of music?
From: Alice
Date: 07 May 02 - 10:36 AM

kris, that happened to me, too. I started hearing what I had never heard before, because I became aware of what singers could do and what many cannot do. To the point of folk singing brought up by Andrés - most folk songs we discuss here are not melodies that make great demand on range, but I think there is something to the idea that certain techniques of using the voice, Swiss yodeling for instance, may have come about within a culture because of the environment people sing in. I wonder. When you "holler", or belt out a work song, you can ruin your voice in no time if you don't do it with enough breath to support the volume and with relaxation of the mechanism. I wonder if some folk naturally developed techniques that we now see as part of the Italian bel canto. I know that history documents that development in Italy, but I am thinking of other cultures finding ways that are similar that kept people from losing their voices to laryngitis. Or was the life span so short that it didn't matter - death before your voice was shot. The Tibetan monks that tour the world doing their chants do amazing things with their voices. The voice problems from pop styles that came after the development of microphones - I think we discussed that in another thread.

Subject: RE: Training detracts from 'soul' of music?
From: Alice
Date: 07 May 02 - 10:45 AM

Did anyone read what I wrote about Odetta? It didn't get a response, so I thought it may have been buried in the thread (posted simultaneously with W-O, so it didn't come up as the last message).

Subject: RE: Training detracts from 'soul' of music?
From: GUEST,irishajo
Date: 07 May 02 - 10:53 AM

I read it Alice. I plan to find out more about her after my finals are over. I should be studying now, as a matter of fact... :-)

Subject: RE: Training detracts from 'soul' of music?
From: Alice
Date: 07 May 02 - 11:16 AM

irishajo, if you are familiar with the era of the civil rights movement in the US, you will will be inspired when finding more about Odetta.

Subject: RE: Training detracts from 'soul' of music?
From: pattyClink
Date: 07 May 02 - 05:22 PM

Great thread, I have to applaud Don's remarks.

I'm in favor of training. Problem is, you then have to have the ear and skill to use your new tools within folk song appropriately. Some people don't have that ear, or instinct, or it takes a long time to develop. That's where the phony or classical 'feel' pops up and ruins the effect. So I'm all for getting some training, then using it with care.

Coming from the other direction, there are a lot of 'natural' singers who've done a CD or two who just aren't going to go any further because they think they need no work on technique. Folk singers particularly can linger on their consonants so that everything is pinched and nasal, or mumble a la Bob Dylan, at full mic, so that none of the clever lyrics are ever heard. I might enjoy hearing you do a song or two, but a whole evening or CD can get tiresome. You may start thinking you're being slighted by audiences in favor of those with better looks or more 'star quality' or connections, when it's an annoying vocal style that's dragging you down. Think it over, if the audience doesn't 'get it' like you'd like, maybe you need a vocal tuneup.

Subject: RE: Training detracts from 'soul' of music?
From: Gloredhel
Date: 07 May 02 - 07:26 PM

Amos, I love you!

That said, I started classical piano lessons at age 8 and voice training for classical and Broadway styles at age 9. I picked up the harp when I was 12, and because of my background in music theory was able to do a lot on my own, but eventually got a teacher for that too. Despite my now nine years of classical training, my harp teacher, when listening to a recording of me playing some O'Carolan tunes, remarked that she hadn't realized how deeply I "felt" that style of music. The voice is a bit harder to adjust for different kinds of music, but it is possible to do that as well.

Having the right teacher helps. I was very lucky. All my music teachers have been very supportive and even encourage me to try new things, as long as I'm not remiss in practicing the pieces they assign to me. I was a little surprised to find out that my voice teacher is a fan of Steeleye Span and Silly Wizard, but you have to remember that not everyone who is involved with classical music is as narrow as the stereotype.

At an Irish music festival last summer, I got strange looks from some people when I revealed my classical training. They seemed to think that it would "ruin" me for traditional music. I did notice however, that none of the professional musicians thought it odd, and one even remarked that she wished she could read music.

I'm in favor of training, but as was said before, be very, very careful about choosing a teacher.