Origins: Short'nin' Bread

Subject: RE: Origins: Shortnin' Bread
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 12 Dec 04 - 02:12 PM

Azizi, like many 'factoid' websites, the one you cite is out of date and jumps to an debatable conclusion. It is best to consult a late edition of the complete Oxford English Dictionary; one after 1987 is needed here since that was when the entries on shortening were last updated. As noted above in posts, Amelia Simmons' "American Cookery" of 1796 has the first printed usage of the word shortening applied to cookery.

First use found so far of shorten in English print in the sense here (to make friable) is 1723, in a discussion of how to make clay suitable for farming by applying sand and chalk. The derivation of this usage is unknown; connection with 'short iron' is unproven. It may derive from the process of manuring farmland.

(Where did the word short come from originally? Some authorities believe it is a Teutonic word, others believe it originally was Latin curtus, modified by the Teutonic people. The Saxon word is curt. The many different applications of the word in English, however, may have little relation to the root word.)

Anne, citron is a thick-skinned fruit related to the lemon, and in cookery it is the preserved rind. Now, the word has been applied to preserved watermelon rind. Real citron is rare except in specialty stores but it shows up in really good fruitcakes. Preserved watermelon rind, dyed green and sold packaged in stores as a substitute, tastes nothing like real citron.

Raisins- many types, all from grape varieties. Sultanas are a light-skinned raisin, often used in cookery. As you say, often just called Sultanas. Muscat raisins are the usual dark-skinned type. Corinthian raisins, usually sold as 'currants' in our groceries, are very small and dark. When I cook oatmeal, I throw in a handful. Real currents are not easy to find in stores, sometimes in the frozen food section.
Over here, porridge refers to any cooked grain cereal, not just oatmeal. Many kinds, made from wheat (Cream of Wheat a popular brand), etc.

Now to add musical content- Jerry, I haven't seen that verse in the collections I have, but it is a good 'un.

Subject: RE: Origins: Shortnin' Bread
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 09 Mar 05 - 11:37 PM

Lyr. Add: SHORTENED BREAD

Run hyeur, mammy, run hyeur quick!
Shord'n bread make baby sick!
My! don't 'e love shord'n shord'n shord'n
Don't 'e love shord'n bread!

Oh, give me sump'n, I don't kyeur what
Tuh cyore this awful pain I got!
My! don't 'e love shord'n etc.

Two little niggers layin' in bed;
One turned over, en the tother one said,
"My! don't yer love," etc.

Two little niggers layin' in bed;
They sent fer the doctor, en the doctor said,
"Feed them niggers on shord'n," etc.

Two little niggers black ez tar
Tried to go ter heaven on a 'lectric car.

Two little niggers dressed in black
Tried to go to heaven on a railroad-track.

Two little niggers dressed in white
Tried to go to heaven on the tail of a kite.

Two little niggers black as hell
Tried to go to heaven in a pea-nut shell.

Two little niggers in a pea-nut shell
Tried to go to heaven but they went to hell.

From East Tennessee. mountain whites, collected in 1912.
No. 22, with music, an adaptation of that of "Run, Nigger, Run!"
E. C. Perrow, 1915, "Songs and Rhymes from the South," Jour. American Folklore, III, section VII, Songs of the Plantation.

Dorothy Scarborough, in "On the Trail of Negro Folk-Songs," collected a similar first verse from Lynchburg, VA, learned from black mammies (p. 151).

This verse, from Texas, collected from young plantation blacks and reported in Scarborough, p. 152, mentions the source of the lard.

Ain't I glad
The old sow's dead:
Mammy's gwine to make
A little short'nin' bread.

Subject: RE: Origins: Short'nin' Bread
From: GUEST
Date: 20 Feb 06 - 08:44 AM

dose anyone know who wrote shortnin bread??anyone have tab for shortnin bread,mississippi john hurts song

Subject: RE: Origins: Short'nin' Bread
From: GUEST,katsoup
Date: 08 Dec 06 - 12:59 AM

I read in a book (years ago) that the shortnin' bread was the main intagonist. In the early century, shortnin bread killed the poor black familys that consumed it and as often than not, kids made fun in song.

Mammies lil baba
Loves shortnin, shortnin
Mammies lil baba
Loves shortnin bread

Two lil chillun lyin'in bed
One rolled over 'n'
tha otha' one's dead!

It was the shortnin bread itself that killed the children because they loved to eat it and it was bad for them. (Lead poisoning?).

Maybe it's not lid in the lyrics but rather "lead" pronouced as "lid".

Subject: RE: Origins: Short'nin' Bread
From: GUEST,thurg
Date: 08 Dec 06 - 10:00 AM

The lyrics I remember from childhood are just slightly different from any of the lyrics posted so far. Seems to me they were in one of several songbooks my mother refered to, although I'm not certain of that ...



SHORT'NIN' BREAD


Put on the skillet, put on the lid,
Mama's gonna [Mamma gwine?] make a little short'nin' bread.
That ain't all Mamma gonna do,
Mamma gonna make a little coffee,too.

CHORUS
Mamma's little baby love short'nin', short'nin',
Mamma's little baby love short'nin' bread.
(repeat)

Two little chill'uns up in bed,
One just sick, the other 'most dead;
Send for the doctor, the doctor said,
Feed them chill'uns some short'nin' bread.

CHORUS

Stole the skillet, stole the lid,
Stole that gal makin' short'nin' bread;
Paid six dollars for the skillet, paid six dollars for the lid,
Married that gal makin' short'nin' bread.

CHORUS



Among the others mentioned, Sonny Terry recorded a version of this song.

Subject: RE: Origins: Short'nin' Bread
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 08 Dec 06 - 02:43 PM

Lid in the song has nothing to do with lead.
A diet heavy on shortning bread (essentially corn meal or white flour and lard) lacks essential elements and has been blamed is several studies for higher child mortality among the very poor in Depression and earlier times. Sweetening, if any, would have been molasses.

It is nothing like our shortbread, which is made with eggs, sugar, etc.
In the thread on 'recipe' (see threads listed in the heading), Azizi mentioned cornpone-like recipes flavored with cinnamon and nutmeg, etc. I also like cornpones (see recipes given by Azizi) and Indian frybread, but other foods are needed for a good diet.

Subject: RE: Origins: Short'nin' Bread
From: GUEST
Date: 05 Jan 07 - 10:53 PM

it would be great if somebody could post a .mp3 version of any of these very old songs.

Joe in Canada
Jan.5, 2007

Subject: RE: Origins: Short'nin' Bread
From: GUEST,Bob Coltman
Date: 06 Jan 07 - 11:26 AM

In haste now and don't have time to look, but some versions of the song use a different chorus:

I like that shortnin', shortnin',
I like that shortnin' bread.
I like that shortnin', shortnin',
Everybody like that shortnin' bread.

That's used in at least one of the early recordings, if memory serves it may have been Gid Tanner's. It would be worth posting his version since it's the earliest recorded lyric.

I suppose the change may have been made to get away from the "Mammy's little baby loves shortnin'" phrase, which some singers could have felt inapplicable to themselves, to say the very least. It's the one I tend to sing. Bob

Subject: RE: Origins: Short'nin' Bread
From: GUEST,Bob Coltman
Date: 06 Jan 07 - 11:43 AM

Yes, in fact too much haste. Had I been a little more leisurely I might have noticed that "I like / love that shortnin'" etc. shows up in the earliest versions, like Talley.

Seems to indicate the stage-pattery "Mammy's little baby" version that became standard in 1940s songbooks -- along with analogous transformations of tradition-into-pop like "I got a gal an' you got none, Little Liza Jane" -- did not rule exclusively earlier.

Bob

Subject: RE: Origins: Short'nin' Bread
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 06 Jan 07 - 02:17 PM

'Mammy' may sound like stage patter, but it was common among both Blacks and Whites at the turn of the century; Al Jolson's signature song on the stage and in the film, 'Mammy," is probably the source of the current antipathy to 'mammy' in these nursery rhymes.

The earliest record of the song (although it is undoubtedly older) is in the collection by Perrow, JAFL 1915, vol. 28, no. 108, p. 142, ""Shortened Bread," with partial score, posted above 09 Mar 05, which begins:
"Run hyeur, mammy, run hyeur quick!"
It was collected from Tennessee "mountain whites."

Talley in "Negro Folk Rhymes," no. 263 (1991 ed.) prints the rhyme under the title "Two Sick Negro Boys," without 'mammy,' but beginning with the often collected verse, "Two liddle N-boys sick in bed." Talley collected many of his songs about the same time as Perrow.
Mammy appears in "Saltin' Bread" (salt-rising bread mixed with bacon bits, etc.) in Talley, Play Rhyme Section, no. 110, which is closely related to "Shortnin' Bread":

Lyr. Add: SALTIN' BREAD

I loves saltin', saltin' bread. (2x)
Put on dat skillet, nev' mind the lead;
Case I'se gwineter cook dat saltin' bread;
Yes, ever since my mammy's been dead,
I'se been makin' an' cookin' dat saltin' bread.

I loves saltin', saltin' bread. (2x)
You loves biscuit, butter an' fat?
I can dance Shiloh better 'an dat.
Does you turn 'round an' shake yo' head?-
Well, I loves saltin', saltin' bread.

I loves saltin', saltin' bread. (2x)
W'en you ax yo' mammy fer butter an' bread,
She don't give nothin' but a stick across yo' head.
On cracklin's, you say, you wants to git fed?
Well, I loves saltin', saltin' bread.
Also posted in thread 29791: Saltin Bread

Mammy makes several appearances in other songs in Talley's Book.

Scarborough also has more than one version of the rhyme with 'mammy.'

Subject: RE: Origins: Short'nin' Bread
From: GUEST,Tim Morrill
Date: 28 Jan 07 - 07:43 AM

I have read with interest all of the posts. I'm still curious though. Does "led" refer to lid? Also, does "Cut the pigeon wing" refer to a dance? Or, does "Cut the pigeon wing" refer to slaves actually butchering pigeons for food. I'd appreciate your knowledge and comments. Thank you.

Subject: RE: Origins: Short'nin' Bread
From: Azizi
Date: 28 Jan 07 - 08:53 AM

Tim Morrill, I believe that "led" refers to the cover of a fying pan {skillet}. And there's no question that "cut the pigeon wing" is an African American dance from at least the 19th century American South.

In his 1922 book "Negro Folk Rhymes" Thomas W. Talley, an African American professor of Fisk University, indicates that the following references in the rhyme "Juba" were specific dance steps: "skin the Yellow Cat","cut that Pigeon's Wing", "[do] the Jubal Jew", "Raise the Latch", and [do] "the Long Dog Stratch". [Kennikat Press Edition, 1968, p.9; capitalizations by Talley].

There are numerous online references to cutting the pigeon wing dance. Here are three of these references:

When the slaves left the fields, they returned to their cabins and after preparing and eating of their evening meal they gathered around a cabin to sing and moan songs seasoned with African melody. Then to the tune of an old fiddle they danced a dance called the "Green Corn Dance" and "Cut the Pigeon Wing."
http://fcit.usf.edu/Florida/docs/s/slave/slave02.htm

**

"There was an old Negro sitting in the corner of the room
patting his foot and wagging his head squeezing out the
'Mississippi Sawyer', the 'Arkansas Traveler', 'Leather Breeches' and other tunes fashionable in those days. The dancers were cutting the pigeon wing, running the double shuffle and the three-step with great vigor."

http://www.carolinamusicways.org/history_1800.html

**

"The rhythmic echo of feet shuffling on pavement can still be heard on warm summer evenings at downtown Waynesville's old-time street dances. It's a fond sound for many folks in Haywood County who remember nights long ago spent in the loft of a barn on Moody Farm in Maggie Valley, square dancing to the calls of Sam Love Queen, Sr.

Queen was born in 1889 in the shadow of Soco Mountain at the foothills of the Great Smoky Mountains. He began to buck dance, or clog, when he was "hoe handle high" as he used to used to say. His grandmother, Sally, was his teacher. It was said that at 96 she could still dance a jig and cut the pigeon wing."

http://mountaingrownmusic.org/sam-queen.html

Subject: RE: Origins: Short'nin' Bread
From: Azizi
Date: 19 Jun 07 - 09:34 PM

Somewhat off topic:

Fwiw, the current Mudcat thread BS: Biscuits(cookies): Nature's Wonder Food
thread.cfm?threadid=102644&messages=11 motivated me to look up Internet articles on shortning bread.

Here's one website that may be of interest to Mudcat members & guests:

"Society for the Preservation of Irish Soda Bread

Dedicated to promoting the traditional Irish Soda Bread as baked by our great-great-grandparents.

Over 30,000 soda bread lovers visited this page in March 2006!

If your soda bread has raisins in it, it's called "Spotted Dog"!

If it contains raisins, eggs, baking powder, sugar or shortening, it's called "cake", not "bread".
...

Here you will find history and background information on Irish Soda bread...The site was inspired by my personal love of historical accuracy and Irish soda bread...

If one searches the internet using the term "Traditional Irish Soda Bread" an amazing number of recipes appear. 98% of them incorrect.

Would "French Bread" (15th century) still be the same if whiskey, raisins, or other ingredients were added to the mix? Would Jewish Motzah still be traditional if chocolate chips and raisins were added? So why is traditional "Irish Soda Bread" (19th century) not given the same respect by modern-day bakers?...

http://www.bookguy.com/cooking/Sodabread.htm

-snip-

Recipes for Irish Soda Bread are given on this page of that site:

http://www.bookguy.com/cooking/SodabreadRecipes.htm

Here is an excerpt from that page:

"All recipes for traditional soda bread contain flour, baking soda, sour milk (buttermilk) and salt.

This was a daily bread that didn't keep long and had to be baked every day or so. It was not a festive "cake" and did not contain whisky, candied fruit, caraway seeds, raisins (add raisins to the recipe and it becomes "Spotted Dog" not to be confused with the pudding made with suet of the same name), or any other ingredient. There are recipes for those type of cakes but they are not the traditional soda bread eaten by the Irish daily since the mid 19th century.   Here are a few basic recipes. Note that measurements below are in American standards. (An Irish teaspoon is not the same as an American teaspoon measurement.)"

...

Brown Bread

3 cups (12 oz) of wheat flour
1 cup (4 oz) of white flour (do not use self-rising as it already contains baking powder and salt)
2 ounces of butter
14 ounces of buttermilk (pour in a bit at a time until the dough is moist)
1 teaspoon of salt
1 1/2 teaspoon of bicarbonate of soda.

Method:

Preheat the oven to 425 F. degrees. Lightly crease and flour a cake pan. In a large bowl sieve and combine all the dry ingredients. Rub in the butter until the flour is crumbly.

Add the buttermilk to form a sticky dough. Place on floured surface and lightly knead (too much allows the gas to escape)

Shape into a round flat shape in a round cake pan and cut a cross in the top of the dough.

Cover the pan with another pan and bake for 30 minutes (this simulates the bastible pot). Remove cover and bake for an additional 15 minutes.

The bottom of the bread will have a hollow sound when tapped to show it is done.

Cover the bread in a tea towel and lightly sprinkle water on the cloth to keep the bread moist.

Let cool and you are ready to have a buttered slice with a nice cup of tea or coffee.

Subject: RE: Origins: Short'nin' Bread
From: Azizi
Date: 19 Jun 07 - 09:37 PM

Here's an excerpt of an article that I found while googling the phrase "shortning bread":

"All About Mammy
By William S. Gooch, III, SeeingBlack.com Theater and Dance Critic
Feb 14, 2007, 19:47

Mama's lil' baby loves shortening, shortening,
mama's lil' baby loves shortening bread.

Shortening bread is made from a simple recipe in about 20 minutes; a much shorter time than it took to come up with the Black mammy stereotype. In "The Mammy Project," which played at the American Theatre of Actors in New York City, Michelle Matlock used film, mime, rap lyrics and historical references to explore the origins of the Black mammy, and how that image is still a part of American culture. Moving deftly from Aunt Jemima to Mammy in "Gone With the Wind," to modern-day references (i.e., Whoopi Goldberg in "Corrina, Corrina" and Nell Carter in "Gimme a Break"), Matlock convinced and illuminated with layered character development and well-scripted monologues. Matlock's one-woman performance was everything a work of this nature should be—well researched, thought provoking and entertaining. An expert mime, Matlock used bulging eyeballs and full-toothed grins to enhance her characterization of the docile, subservient Black house servant.

Nancy Green, who portrayed the original Aunt Jemima, is conjured up in this production. Green—though not a cook—was hired by the manufacturers of the Aunt Jemima Pancake Mix to be the face of the brand at the 1893 World's Fair Exposition. Matlock portrayed Green as a former slave, grateful for the chance at lifetime employment, who doesn't quite understand how her scripted characterization of the down home, plantation-loving, rotund, house servant is an affront to African Americans of her time. After being snubbed by African Americans on "Colored Day" at the 1904 St. Louis Exposition, Green exhaustingly says, " I reckon I will survive this colored day." Using the catch phrase, "I's here," Green's portrayal comforts the mind of Whites who long for the antebellum, pre-Civil War days... Although "The Mammy Project" was just a little over sixty minutes in length, Matlock gave the audience an insightful and funny perspective on the role of the mammy in society. She also encouraged audience members to break free of any boxes or constraints that might impede their personal growth".

http://www.seeingblack.com/article_137.shtml

Subject: RE: Origins: Short'nin' Bread
From: GUEST,When I was young
Date: 20 Mar 08 - 08:38 PM

My early years late 40's / early 50's I lived in Lynchburg, Va.
We sang the Shortnin Bread, but never with the word Nigger. Even though my grandparents owned slaves, the word nigger didn't cut it. My grandmother would say nigra with no intended disrespect.
We had a Mammy and a maid, one of Mammy's daughters or a niece, and we learned the song from them. The word darky was used.

You know, it was I guess a more politically incorrect world, but there was, by and large, a hell of a lot more respect between the races.

[e-mail]

Subject: RE: Origins: Short'nin' Bread
From: GUEST,geodejerry
Date: 07 Feb 11 - 02:17 AM

My college roommate (white) had studied jazz piano in Berkeley in the '50's with African-American teachers, and told me he had been told that the song carries a double meaning: that the "Mammy" in the song is a madam, and "Mammy's li'l baby is one of her clients, and "short'nin' bread" is a code name for an (unspecified) kind of sexual intercourse. He didn't say what the "coffee" referred to...

Subject: RE: Origins: Short'nin' Bread
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 07 Feb 11 - 01:21 PM

Oh my! More nonsense. Almost anything can be read into any song.

Subject: RE: Origins: Short'nin' Bread
From: GUEST,Joseph Scott
Date: 15 Dec 14 - 02:33 PM

"It is interesting to recall that Whitter was the first old-timey artist to record...."

He wasn't. E.g., fiddler Eck Robertson first recorded in 1922. Sam Moore, born in Florida in 1887, was recording in 1921 ("Laughing Rag" with Horace Davis on the other guitar is on youtube).

Subject: RE: Origins: Short'nin' Bread
From: cnd
Date: 06 Nov 20 - 09:55 AM

Here are the lyrics from American Mountain Songs, ed. Sigmund Spaath, collected by Ethel Park Richardson.

1. I know sumpin', ain't gonna tell,
    Two little niggers in a peanut shell!

CHORUS
Don't that look like shortenin' bread?
Don't that look like shortenin' bread?

2. Two littler niggers layin' in bed,
    Feet cracked open like shortenin' bread!

3. Two little niggers two days old,
    Et a pot o' hominy 'fore hit got cold!

4. Joe's been a-gittin' thar, Joe's been a tryin',
    Joe's been a-gittin' thar fairly flyin'!