opera

Subject: RE: opera
From: Don Firth
Date: 27 Oct 02 - 01:57 PM

She "gussies them up" a bit, but then, she's a opera/concert singer, and she's doing them as concert pieces, not trying to be "authentic" or "ethnic."

Don Firth

Subject: RE: opera
From: Don Firth
Date: 27 Oct 02 - 02:06 PM

True, Kevin. Marilyn Horne isn't exactly svelte, and Jessie Norman, possessor of one of the world's greatest soprano voices, is a pretty hefty lady. I also think "Mama" Cass Elliot had one of the best non-classical voices in captivity. Beauty is as beauty does!

Don Firth

Subject: RE: opera
From: JJ
Date: 27 Oct 02 - 02:45 PM

All this from my untrustworthy memory, but as I remember it...

Placido Domingo comes from a family of Mexican zarzuela performers, a sort of Spanish-language musical comedy.

He began his career as a baritone, which accounts for his vocal timbre. Domingo may be a member of the "Loverly" quartet on the Original Mexico City Cast Recording of "My Fair Lady," in Spanish, of course.

Subject: RE: opera
From: dorareever
Date: 27 Oct 02 - 06:42 PM

Opera is wonderful when you have real good personal singers.The bad thing is that 9 time on 10 you just have plastic opera= people with good technical skills,but no soul.But that happens a lot in pop or folk music too.So opera with good singers is a miracle and opera with bad singers is hard to understand,boring and full of itself.

Subject: RE: opera
From: Don Firth
Date: 27 Oct 02 - 08:04 PM

9 times out of 10 is a bit excessive these days, dorareever. Things are a lot better than they used to be. More and more, good singers are becoming good actors as well, and more of them tend to look the parts they portray. Directors of opera companies are being a lot more careful about casting. With a lot of exceptions, opera singers of years gone by tended to be pretty stiff, but not anymore.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: opera
From: Escamillo
Date: 27 Oct 02 - 09:54 PM

Sometimes we would like to listen to some opera but the theatre is far from home, and the night is cold or.. anything. Then an excellent audio device could poorly imitate the sound, and with much imagination, we could enjoy some good moments. For those ocassions, I would recommend something beyond audio: there are some excellent videos recorded at live performances, but there are two which I really enjoy:

1) Georges Bizet's CARMEN, with Julia Migenes-Johnson (Carmen), Plácido Domingo (Don José) and Ruggiero Ricci (Escamillo) filmed not in a theatre but in natural and historic scenarios in Sevilla, Spain, by the master cinematographist FRANCESCO ROSSI. The images compete in beauty with the music. See the cavalry entering the place among a choir of children, see the sweet song of Micaela, and the tremendous Aria of the Cards of Carmen, the Flower Song, the glory of Escamillo, and the final drama, all in the most fantastic images I've ever seen in this genre.

2) Giuseppe Verdi's OTHELLO, with Plácido again as Othello and..(sorry..don't remember the others, all of first category) filmed in natural places by FRANCO ZEFIRELLI, one of the geniuses of cinema.

Look at some hidden shelf at Blockbuster or some specialized video store. I'm sure you will repeat the experience many times. These videos have done a great job for the opera, because while we are deprived of the natural sound, as a compensation we can see the action in natural scenarios and not the restricted scope of a theatre stage. Note: these versions are complete, absolutely loyal to the original score.

Un abrazo,
Andrés (le toreró de Buenos Aires)

Subject: RE: opera
From: katlaughing
Date: 27 Oct 02 - 10:22 PM

Andres, your postings to this thread are just fantastic! Thank you!

Subject: RE: opera
From: Don Firth
Date: 28 Oct 02 - 03:14 AM

To add to Andrés' video list: La Bohème with Teresa Stratas as Mimi and José Carreras as Rodolfo, directed by Franco Zefirelli. Excellent singers all, good acting, and everybody looks the part. Four stars. Plot synopsis here.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: opera
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 28 Oct 02 - 06:19 AM

The idea of subtitles or supratitles makes sense - but not just for translations, even more maybe for the actual text being sung, to help train the ear into recognising what is being sung.

I can make a lot more sense out of an Italian lyric in print than I can out of an English lyric being sung by most opera singers. (And that's with pretty minimal Italian.) It's something to do with the way they distort the words in order to get adequate volume or a prettier sound or something, but it might as well be Japanese.

Subject: RE: opera
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 28 Oct 02 - 10:16 AM

GUEST,the Bitch, said:

"Now champagne and opera there is an evening to die for!"

Slight typo there. The last words should be "first".

Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: opera
From: Escamillo
Date: 28 Oct 02 - 11:25 PM

I did never heard an opera sung in a language that is not the original, but heard many popular songs translated. The outcome is a completely different thing. Each word, each vowel and each consonant has a place in the flow of the melody, and once the music is joined with the lyrics and the action, there's nothing that could express the same in another language.

Curiously, one of the most important patriotic songs in Argentina, is named Aurora (Dawn) and sung in Spanish as an homage to the national flag. But the song was composed in Italy by an Argentinean composer, Panizza, in 1912 as an aria of his purely Italian opera Aurora, which was not "dawn", but it was the name of the female main character (like Aida, Carmen, Tosca..) This deeply beautiful aria has been sung by children for almost one century, and none of them has really understood the mess of Spanish words put there together by two respected poets some years after the opera was composed. Since it would be outrageous to sing it in Italian, there is now a controversy about changing the lyrics again, because it did never make sense !

I agree that the translated subtitles are acceptable, but I would prefer those subtitles showing us the original lyrics.

Un abrazo,
Andrés

Subject: RE: opera
From: GUEST,Pavarotti
Date: 29 Oct 02 - 06:52 AM

I donna know what yo go onna bout. I take de peesse mosta de time cos I sometimes ssing the Kylie songs in Italian just to fool you folks

Subject: RE: opera
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 29 Oct 02 - 07:07 AM

Aurora

Alta en el cielo, un águila guerrera
audaz se eleva en vuelo triunfal;
azul un ala del color del cielo,
azul un ala del color del mar.

Así en la alta aurora irradial,
punta de flecha el áureo rostro imita,
y forma estela al purpurado cuello.

El ala es paño, el águila es bandera.
Es la bandera de la patria mía,
del sol nacida, que me ha dado Dios;
es la bandera de la patria mía,
del sol nacida, que me ha dado Dios;
es la bandera de la patria mía,
del sol nacida que me ha dado Dios.

I take it this is the one? Sounds pretty good, even on a piano midi. My Spanish is minimnal, but the words look to make as much sense as most national anthems and patriotic songs, and more than a great many.

Subject: RE: opera
From: Escamillo
Date: 30 Oct 02 - 02:27 AM

Yes, it is ! The problems with these lyrics are that "irradial"is not an existent Spanish word, the original "aureola" (which makes sense) has been replaced by "Aurora", who knows why? , "la alta" is sung incorrectly "el alta" because otherwise it sounds horrible, "el áureo rostro imita" is a messy translation of the Italian and difficult to spell, the eagle itself is an European/ North American bird, while the CONDOR is the typical rapacious bird of the Andes mountains, and "que me ha " sounds identical to "que mea" (that pees). And of course, the title of the Aria is Canzone alla Bandiera and has nothing to do with the dawn. What a tough task is a translation !

Listen to the music and compare this to the Italian original:

Alta pel Cielo un aquila guerriera

Ardita s'erge a volo trionfale

Ha un'ala azzurra del color del mare

Ha un'ala azzurra del color del Cielo !

Cosí nel l'alta aureola irradiale

il rostro d'or punta de freccia appare

Porpora il teso collo e forma stello

l'ali son drappo e l'aquila e bandiera


E la bandiera del paese mío

nata nel Sole e che l'ha data Iddio
... etc.

Un abrazo,
Andrés

Subject: RE: opera
From: Micca
Date: 30 Oct 02 - 04:25 AM

Escamillo, have you seen the Joseph Losey film of Mozarts "Don Giovanni" filmed on Location in Vicenza in Italy!! It is Wonderful and has a cast of Great voices, Kiri te Kanawa, Ruggiero Ricci, etc.

Subject: RE: opera
From: fogie
Date: 30 Oct 02 - 05:49 AM

I really got into Opera about ?10 yrs ago and at that time Channel4 was showing opera films which I videod for my own entertainment. Of course I went to the occasional live performance, but where I live means its not the thing you can do easily or often. I'm very happy with the videos, which I enjoy a lot more than just listening to my records, even though I appreciate that some records have better singers. I've got a B&W second act of Tosca with Callas flashing her eyes and strutting her stuff, a marvelous Swedish Magic Flute, Zefferelli's beautiful film of Traviata, with a great Domingo, and a good looking but dreadful colorata, a great Verona open air Aida, a very funny Cinderella (gosh I do love Rossini)with Teresa Stratas, a film of Domingo in a very rustic Cavalleria Rusticana, the wonderful
Tales of Hoffman, and even the whole Ring Cycle, although I havent watched it since I videod it. There are lots more- I think I've got about 100, as well as musicals, like the Rogers and Hammersteins.
The only one I really want and havent got is Le Comte D'ory, although I have got it predecessor.
I hope that you who are unconvinced try opera in some form or other, its sad to miss out on any art form especially one that can be so rewarding.
Vixens and Nixons to you all.

Subject: RE: opera
From: Escamillo
Date: 30 Oct 02 - 11:15 PM

No Micca, I haven't seen it but I'll try. Thanks Fogie for so many good references. Since I live in a big city with a high level of opera activity at international levels, it is not difficult for me to attend a live performance. The economic disaster in Argentina has not been sufficient to flatten any cultural activity, thanks to the people who resist, and double their efforts to keep the theatres open.

Thanks for your comments, Maestro Luciano !

By the way, the unknown and beautiful opera Aurora was many times performed in Buenos Aires, and my teacher Guido De Kehrig played the first tenor role. He has an extraordinary voice.

Un abrazo,
Andrés