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Folklore: weirs -finally!
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Folklore: weirs -finally! |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: weirs -finally! From: Dave Bryant Date: 04 Mar 04 - 05:45 AM Over here in the UK a weir is a sort of dam, sometimes fixed, but quite frequently adjustable in height which is used to control the flow or depth of a waterway. If you don't have them on a river, it will tend to flow fast and shallow and would not be very suitable for navigation by larger craft. On the upper Thames above Teddington (well there is a half-tide barrier at Richmond) there are weirs at regular intervals (usually about a mile or so) which keep the water deep enough for boats. Obviously these pose a barrier to navigation, so there is a lock at each to enable boats to get from one level to the other. This way the river is separated into a series of levels (or pounds) rather like stairs. The weirs are also used for flood control at times of heavy rainfall or flow. |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: weirs -finally! From: Charley Noble Date: 04 Mar 04 - 08:38 AM And the dreaded Weir Wolf? Don't go down to the shore at night alone when there's a full moon... Charley Noble |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: weirs -finally! From: Stilly River Sage Date: 04 Mar 04 - 10:03 AM JTT, if you're addressing Americans about "canoes over weirs" we are imaging a really looney stunt bound to break both boat and boater. Looking at your link, I see that these are in fact kayaks, an entirely different proposition because they are a different kind of boat. Kayaks are enclosed, are made of different materials, and are responsive to stunts that canoes can't contemplate. El Greko, I have also found this an informative thread. The etymology of the words reminds me of my father's interest in both folksongs and word origins. He would not weiry of sharing such things with us. SRS |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: weirs -finally! From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 04 Mar 04 - 01:13 PM Dave Bryant "over here in the UK a weir is a sort of dam" (specifics). Please tell the Oxford English Dictionary to expunge all of the other usages prevalent in the UK and the British Isles from its discussion of the term. |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: weirs -finally! From: GUEST,leeneia Date: 04 Mar 04 - 06:09 PM I'm sure that the word weir as used today almost always means a dam. When I started this thread, I was thinking about the song Salley Gardens, which has the lines She bade me take love easy, as grass grows on the weirs. But I was young and foolish, and now am filled with tears. Now this is an old song, and maybe in its time, weirs were also levees. Maybe... However, have you ever tried to compose a conventional song, one which makes sense and rhymes at the same time? It is not easy. I don't blame the author for seizing upon a little-known meaning for weir in order to find something that rhymes with "tears." My Sing-out book says that this song came about when W.B. Yeats attempted to reconstuct an old song from 3 lines he remembered an old peasant woman singing in the village of Ballisodare. JTT: you may be right about the water plants that cling to the weirs. I don't think country people would call it grass, because it doesn't feed the cows, but maybe, when one needs a rhyme badly, things like that can be overlooked. |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: weirs -finally! From: GUEST,leeneia Date: 04 Mar 04 - 06:12 PM El Greko - the dictionary says that weir is related to the Greek "erysthai", to protect. You were right all along. |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: weirs -finally! From: GUEST,JTT Date: 04 Mar 04 - 06:13 PM Hmm. We call 'em all canoes here, whether they're covered in (kayaks) or open (what we call Canadian canoes). And yes, country people do call the grass under weirs grass, and yes, the beasts do eat it, because at times when there's less of a flow, it's not all covered by water. |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: weirs -finally! From: Dave Bryant Date: 05 Mar 04 - 04:43 AM Q - nowhere in my posting do I suggest that my definition excludes any others. I would still say that the major use of the word weir (in the UK at least) relates to some form of structure used to control the depth or flow of water in a channel. I was really attempting to explain one of the main reasons that weirs are placed across rivers. Another use of weirs is to regulate the flow of water to a water-wheel. |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: weirs -finally! From: GUEST,JTT Date: 16 Sep 04 - 06:22 PM i happened to notice a typical Irish grassy weir the other day, as I was musing to myself about this thread, and snickering mentally at the idea that Irish farmers wouldn't be fairly familiar with grass. I can take a photo next time I pass it if it's any help - but can I upload photos here? |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: weirs -finally! From: rich-joy Date: 18 Sep 04 - 08:10 PM In Perth , Western Australia, where I was born, we had two major water supply reservoirs (well, in the 50s, this was!) - The Canning Dam and the Mundaring Weir. The M.Weir was the one that pumped water to the Eastern Goldfields - a squillion miles away in the desert (C.Y. O'Connor's scheme, built in late 1800s, I think). In the good old days, when it used to rain lots every winter in Perth, Dad used to take us for an annual Sunday drive into "The Hills" to see the first water overflowing at the Dam and then we'd finish the day's outing at the Wier. But my point is, they are both BIG holders of water - just not sure why one is labeled a dam and one a weir ... Cheers! R-J |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: weirs -finally! From: GUEST,.gargoyle Date: 18 Sep 04 - 10:50 PM There are many intelligent responces within this thread - i.e. oxygenation by Cattail
However, leeneia's Canoes aren't safe boats to begin with reminds me - there ought to be driver's lisences issued for "the information super-hiway"
Folkies - sometimes the idjets - idjecy - just gets my temper rolling like THE Weir in BATH UK:
Bath's weir is world famous - and was also constructed in a manner to minimize the dangerous "hydralics" of a traditional style - straight-across-stream barrier. (Perhaps, your detective novelist used their "advance" to visit Bath for "research.)
When "caught in a hydralic" you swim to the bottom of the river, crawl along the bottom-rocks, and hope to be "spit-out" .... rather than going round and round like a washing machine. Dangerous Hydraulic Diagram:
Our thread's "canoing expert" - would probably be terrified - but yes, canoes do, do whitewater - and yes - it is VERY fun! It is also an Olympic event C-1 and C-2 slaloms and sprints (you probably think they are K-1 and K-2....but who would know or be expected to discover "new-knowledge" - given this summer's "sports" coverage of women's beach vollyball.)
Woman canoeing whitewater:
Sincerely, |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: weirs -finally! From: GEST Date: 19 Sep 04 - 11:01 AM Our home is in Canada on an island off the coast of Maine. The island's many coves are filled with herring weirs designed for the extreme high and low tides of the Bay of Fundy. From our back door we can see three, but there are four more out of our sight in the cove. During the season they are seined whenever they are full, which has been very often this year. We get to see the herring carriers arrive to suck the herring out of the main net and into a scaler before entering the hold. Scales are used in the cosmetic industry, while the herring are processed here on the island and the mainland. Next time you buy sardines, look for the Brunswick brand. They're sold in stores all over the world. :-) Here's a picture of a weir: http://www.wtv-zone.com/phyrst/gest/agm06.html |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: weirs -finally! From: The Fooles Troupe Date: 19 Sep 04 - 11:38 AM A Weir is intended to have the water flow over the whole of the top surface on a fairly regular basis - most of the ones in the country area around Bundaberg where I grew up often had a (concrete not asphalt) road surface on the top - wide enough to cross the river in dryish times. It forms a buffer, retaining some water for drier times in a pond area upstream. None of the weirs in Australia were ever likely to have been associated with any sort of mill construction, such things were things of history (power was mostly generated by steam or ICEs) when these Australian ones were constructed - they were mostly used for irrigation or for a supply of potable water in drier times. Most rivers in Eastern Australia are short and fast flowing during times of rain, and lower and slower between wet periods. Weirs are not uncommon on many smaller streams in country areas. A large Dam is intended to hold water back and deal with the flow through a regulated outlet (possibly also generating electrical power) - if the water reaches the top enough to start to flow over, it is a serious cause for concern by the engineers, as due to it's design and construction, this may cause serious damage to the dam. There may be a 'spillway' which is intended to deal with small amounts of flow over once the optimum high level is reached, but if considerable stream flow is anticipated, the outputs are opened to stop the dam overtopping. But small farm dams may rely on the water mostly behaving like a weir - although the volume is much smaller, and towns are not likely to be swept away downstream if they break. Robin |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: weirs -finally! From: kendall Date: 19 Sep 04 - 11:54 AM Charlie, them "weir wolves" is bad, but even they stay clear of the "Hang Downs." |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: weirs -finally! From: The Fooles Troupe Date: 19 Sep 04 - 12:25 PM Some weirs I was speaking about before were also intended mainly as creek crossings. By providing a stable area over which the water would flow after a rain fall, the crossing would be still usable after the rainflow had ceased. If left naturally, the force of the water passing thru the crossing area would disrupt the area, with rocks and soil ripped and moved around. These were usually lower in height. Robin |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: weirs -finally! From: Stilly River Sage Date: 20 Sep 04 - 10:37 AM Good point on the canoe/kayak thread drift, and good photos at that link, Gargoyle--there are clearly some similar skill sets, and some different. Smaller closed craft versus larger open craft. But you don't see any photos of her rolling that canoe--because once is all it takes and she's out of the competition. That's also a very useful diagram of the action of water as it goes over a dam. Avoidance is obviously the key--how many people would have the presence of mind to remember to dive to the bottom of the river to get spit out of that loop? SRS |
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