BS: Senate Seat for Sale

Subject: RE: BS: Senate Seat for Sale
From: Genie
Date: 11 Dec 08 - 07:08 PM

Teribus, you're right - a number of factors must be weighed in deciding who should get a govt. contract. However:
- not all contracts are for military projects
and
- when competitive bids are submitted for one project a number of companies probably get vetted.   It's probably not necessary to start from scratch for everyone when a new project comes up.
- it would probably be a good idea for the govt. to keep (current) records on a number of potential contractors, both in terms of competence and in terms of security, just so no one company can take advantage of lack of competition.

Subject: RE: BS: Senate Seat for Sale
From: Genie
Date: 11 Dec 08 - 07:11 PM

Oh, and, Teribus ("Now all those facets of the job are cost items that have to factored into the bids - You tell me which contractor is best placed to put in the most attractive bid in terms of cost; effectiveness; degree of comfort to the Client. My money would be on Contractor A."), you're still talking about BIDS. Choosing which bid to accept could involve all the factors you mentioned (and more).

My quarrel is with the idea of NO-bid contracts.   Seems to me the Bush administration has handed out quite a few of those.

Subject: RE: BS: Senate Seat for Sale
From: Rapparee
Date: 11 Dec 08 - 11:05 PM

Don't forget in all this talk about the Senate Seat that Roddy B. also withheld Medicaid funds from a Children's Hospital until the doctors there could come up with an $800,000 "contribution"....

My youngest brother called and asked me "Who's going to get the longest jail time -- your Senator or my Governor?" (Idaho Senator Larry Craig just had his guilty plea upheld in Minnesota.) Bro also said that Roddy is probably the loneliest man in Illinois right now, because the Chicago Machine has cut him lose.

Of course, his FIL, a rather powerful Chicago Alderman, hasn't seen his grandkids in two years -- and Roddy hasn't talked to his Lt. Governor in 18 months.

Subject: RE: BS: Senate Seat for Sale
From: Teribus
Date: 12 Dec 08 - 01:41 AM

In which case Genie suggest to Obama that the US Government do away with Frame Agreement Contracts and award all work on a competitive bid basis. It will provide great opportunities, increase the risks and probabilities of complete screw ups, delay the completion of the work required to be done and dramatically increase the costs of government in evaluating all those bids and awarding the work. It was precisely to avoid all these pitfalls that Frame Agreement Contracts were thought of.

Any conflict of interest issues with regard to Dick Cheney's former employment and him running as VP of the USA were thoroughly investigated and gone into prior to the 2000 Presidential election campaign Bobert. You might not have liked the outcome, but those responsible for doing the checking were quite content with what they found. As to his "pay" Bobert, are you referring to all that money he declared, as he had to, and all that money he donated to charity.

Yes Bobert you did go into all of this at the time - the dog didn't hunt then, it isn't hunting now - no case to answer, move on, get over it.

Subject: RE: BS: Senate Seat for Sale
From: Riginslinger
Date: 12 Dec 08 - 09:22 AM

They're getting closer to Jesse Jackson Jr., and starting to look at Obama.

Subject: RE: BS: Senate Seat for Sale
From: Bobert
Date: 12 Dec 08 - 10:25 AM

Exactly who "thoroughly investigated" the Cheney conflict of interest, T??? No, don't hurt yer head on that one 'cause i'm gonna tell you... The Republican dominated governemnt led by George Bush and, ahhhhhh, Dick Cheneym that's who... You still don't get it, do you, T... The worst 8 years of American history since maybe Nixon or maybe the Civil War or maybe the worst ever and here you are with these proclamations od inocence by everyone involved...

(It was Bill Clinton's fault, Boberdz... Slick Willie is completely responsible for everything bad that has happened since 2000!!!)

I don't buy that bull...

And I don't buy your proclamations, T... They are not one bit credible...

And, BTW, you may not be aware of American tax codes but every dollar that is donated to charity come off one's "taxable income" which mean's that the US Treasury subsidized Cheney's donations... So that money that came from Halliburton wasn't exactly donated in that Cheney did not financially beneift because he did benefit from the GHallinburton money... That is a fact, T... Check out out tax codes before making any more proclamations that Cheney did not benefit from the money he recieved from Halliburton and after you have all the facts maybe it's you who should just accept that there was conflict of interest and get over your denials...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Senate Seat for Sale
From: Teribus
Date: 12 Dec 08 - 11:53 AM

Hey Bobert don't try to convince me, try to convince those who gave the man a clean bill of health to run as V-P. The truth to this day is that nobody has proven any conflict of interest.

By the bye Bobert you were asked to provide details of any contract awarded to Halliburton by Dick Cheney.

How much out of the public purse is Obama getting to run his "Transition" Office?? In 2000 after the election the Bush-Cheney team were given nothing, the costs were borne privately by Dick Cheney.

Subject: RE: BS: Senate Seat for Sale
From: pdq
Date: 12 Dec 08 - 11:57 AM

Athough this thread is not about Dick Cheney, and all the possible questions about his estate have been awswered, it looks like we need to go back and look again.

All of the assets of Mr. Cheney and his wife were put in a very complex blind trust with at least three compartments.The stock options from Haliburton were a major part of his compensation as it's CEO and my have be their largest asset.

Any increase in value of these options was to be given to charities. Any loss in value would be borne by the Cheney's. Three charities were chosen and are as follows: "The charities chosen by the Cheneys are Capital Partners for Education, which provides educational assistance to low-income highschool-age children in the Washington, D.C. area, George Washington University Medical Faculty Associates, also in Washington, D.C., and the University of Wyoming in their home state."

Cash, property and deferred salary are seperated treated but also in the blind trust. The only people who could possibly benefit from and increase in value were in the charities. Anybody from the general public who thought that having Haliburton's former CEO as VP could have bought stock in the company. Perhaps the only two people in the world who could not were the Cheney's.

About the contracts mentioned, involving driving trucks and feeding troops in Iraq, Haliburton took them because the government asked them to. They are more dangerous for employees and pay less than the company receives for their specialized oil field developement in the oil-rich regions of the world.

Also, Haliburton was ranked at about 105 on the top corporations list when Cheney took office. Last time I checked it was at about 155. Some benefit from having "their man" as VP, eh.

Subject: RE: BS: Senate Seat for Sale
From: Teribus
Date: 12 Dec 08 - 07:01 PM

Hells teeth pdq, don't whatever you do confuse Bobert with facts that can be clearly established as being the truth - Everybody knows Bobert just can handle the TRUTH!!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Senate Seat for Sale
From: Bobert
Date: 12 Dec 08 - 07:49 PM

Yeah, right, T 'n pdq...

That is so much bull it is barely worth (yet again) responding to but here are the facts...

Blind trust or not, the Cheney's showed ****income**** from Halliburton at a time that Halliburten was being awarded no-bid contracts!!!

This is a fact!!! It is public information!!! Okay, maybe you two don't care about this but it is a fact...

(But, Boerdz, this was perfectly legal...)

Well, let me put this another way... If Bill Clinton had donme something like this he would have been ***fried***... If Obam ever come close to this he will be ***fried***...

You guys just don't get corruption, do you???

I mean, really...

Geeze Louise... Exactly what would Chaney have to do for either of you shills to say, "The boy done messed up"???

I mean, last I heard is that Cheney's approval ratings were around 10%... There is a reason, unbeknownst to either of you Cheney cheerleaders, for that... He is a repulsive crook and I resent my tax dollars being ***handed over*** to his company!!! And 90% of Americans feel exactly like me...

I want transparancy in how my tax dollars are spent and that has never occured with Halliburton other than when they tried to scam $6B outta the Treasury...

Scammers...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Senate Seat for Sale
From: Charley Noble
Date: 12 Dec 08 - 08:41 PM

Let's get back to the thread topic, please.

So Jessie Jackson, Jr, is somehow implicated? From news reports that I've read it's possible that one of his financial supporters was indeed willing to raise $500,000 or so to have him made senator. Jackson didn't necessarily know about that proposal but certainly one of his staff people did.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Senate Seat for Sale
From: Bobert
Date: 12 Dec 08 - 09:04 PM

Why, Charlie???

This discussion about Cheney is the leader for things to come... We need to figure out why a governor thought it was okay to say stuff like "pay-to-play", why he thought is was pefectly okay to do some of the completely dumbass stuff that he has done...

We have a sheriff here in Page County who alot like the governor... Young, handsome, etc. who got busted on 22 felony counts and like them governor didn't have a clue that what he had done was, ahhhhhhh, wrong??? Google "Danny Presgraves" for details...

Cheney is a central digure in alot of folks lives and misdeeds... He was the guy who broke all the rules and said it was "Okay"...

We can't really discuss the governor of Illinios without discussing Dick Cheney... There is a culture of corruption where people really have no idea that they are doing stuff that is wrong...

To discuss this without keeping the role model in mind ain't discussing it at all...

These youngin's really don't have a clue that they are committing crimes...

That is the real story here...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Senate Seat for Sale
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 12 Dec 08 - 09:05 PM

If you guys wanna discuss Cheney, Haliburton, and no-bid contracts, how about starting a separate thread for that purpose? Some of us would like to discuss and/or read about something vaguely resembling what the thread title indicates. Has nobody ever explained the meaning of the term "hijack" to you?

Subject: RE: BS: Senate Seat for Sale
From: Bobert
Date: 12 Dec 08 - 09:31 PM

No, Beezer... Nobody has...

Awwww, jus' funnin'... Okay, I'll leave Cheny alone, fir now, but hold the rights to bring him back into the discussion whould need arise...

Okay, so back to the seriously messes up Illinois Governor who thought that he was gonna get a call from Obama to speak at the Dem convention, who thought it was okay to get something in return for a Senate appointment, who really didn't get anything at all...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Senate Seat for Sale
From: Rapparee
Date: 12 Dec 08 - 09:53 PM

Bobert, please don't bring Cheney back. Man, I just ate!

Subject: RE: BS: Senate Seat for Sale
From: Riginslinger
Date: 12 Dec 08 - 10:04 PM

"Jackson didn't necessarily know about that proposal but certainly one of his staff people did."


               Doesn't matter. Jackson Jr. is toast. That's the way American politics work. They're trying desperately to splash some of it on Obama. Time will tell.

Subject: RE: BS: Senate Seat for Sale
From: Genie
Date: 13 Dec 08 - 02:33 AM

Riginslinger - "They're getting closer to Jesse Jackson Jr., and starting to look at Obama."

"They?"   Maybe Fitzgerald is "getting closer to Jesse Jackson Jr" but the only "they" who are starting to look at Obama - any more than at anyone else who may have any connection to Illinois politics - seem to be the same Republican crowd that set out to dig up some dirt on Bill Clinton before he even took office.   There's been nothing revealed by news sources that in any way implicated Obama other than wild-assed speculation, mostly by those who have ulterior motives.

Sad to say, at a time when our nation could really use some healing and bipartisan cooperation - after a disastrous 8 years and a solid victory by the Democrats - too many of those who opposed Obama seem more interested in hobbling him right out of the gate than in doing anything to help the country survive the crises we're in.

Fitzgerald has lots of taped conversations and other evidence. Why don't we let his office do its job before we go off on witch hunts?

Subject: RE: BS: Senate Seat for Sale
From: akenaton
Date: 13 Dec 08 - 03:27 AM

"at a time when our nation could really use some healing and bipartisan cooperation"

I hope that's just another of your little political jokes Genie!!

What your country could do with, is a large measure of fury about being treated like fuckin' idiots.
The very worst part is that you all seem to know that the political system is rotten, yet after being comprehensively fucked, you follow your leader Mr Obama, roll over and invite them to fuck you again!

I'm beginning to think that the "right" in America are the ones with the balls......and I include Sarah Palin in that.

When will it ever dawn on you that change never has been and never will be served up to you by the US Corporate political system?
They will use any trick in the book to convince you otherwise....race....gender....finance....terrorism, but as proved by the Anti Vietnam and the Civil Rights Movements, the initiative has to be taken by the American people themselves.

Forget token black men or token women listen, to what the bastards say, watch what they do......always remember what they are and where they came from.......You want change?.....break the fuckin' mould!.....Ake

Subject: RE: BS: Senate Seat for Sale
From: Genie
Date: 13 Dec 08 - 04:48 AM

Akenaton, I'm not sure I fully understand where yer comin' from, but let me throw this out:

Yeah, I know the neocons have screwed us (the country) over for - well, at least since the "Reagan revolution" - but, like it or not, this country is so divided (has been for at least 20 years) that nobody's gonna bring about major reforms (salvation) without at least SOME bipartisan backing.

As long as we're stuck in the "gotcha!" politics mode, we'll waste the public's attention span and the media's and Congress's resources slapping each other in the face like Curly, Moe, and Larry instead of plugging the growing holes in the dike.

To quote our President elect, "ENOUGH!"

Subject: RE: BS: Senate Seat for Sale
From: Genie
Date: 13 Dec 08 - 05:06 AM

OK, gotta five our sun-god-worshipper pharaoh a bit more of a response.


Akenaton: "What your country could do with, is a large measure of fury about being treated like fuckin' idiots.
The very worst part is that you all seem to know that the political system is rotten, yet after being comprehensively fucked, you follow your leader Mr Obama, roll over and invite them to fuck you again!

I'm beginning to think that the "right" in America are the ones with the balls......and I include Sarah Palin in that.

When will it ever dawn on you that change never has been and never will be served up to you by the US Corporate political system?
They will use any trick in the book to convince you otherwise....race....gender....finance....terrorism, but as proved by the Anti Vietnam and the Civil Rights Movements, the initiative has to be taken by the American people themselves."

Funny, but we're arguing yet we don't really disagree. Except maybe on tactics.
I may be wrong, but I think - and I hope - that Barack Obama's tactical disagreements with me (and you?) reflect more his astute grasp of political realities than disagreements with progressive ideals.   The Democrats do not have a filibuster-proof majority in the US Senate.   And there are a few "blue dog Democrats" who will usually side with the Republicans/conservatives on many voes.    It's not like the Democratic/Progressive wing can just push through major policy changes without convincing large portions of the Republican/conservatives to come aboard, without convincing the majority of the voting public to agree.

One of the main points repeated by Thom Hartmann in his book, "Cracking The Code: The Art and Science Of Political Persuasion," is that when you want to win someone over to your side, it's important to start by finding common ground. What's too often been lost in US (and maybe other) politics is that search for common ground.

Back to the thread topic, specifically. I'd say both (all) parties can agree that Senate seats and other public offices should not be up for the highest bidder. We'd probably probably all agree, too, that flagrant wrongdoers need to be removed from office and probably prosecuted beyond that.   

Like you, I'm pissed that the Democrats - for reasons I have yet to comprehend, much less endorse - seem to lack the spine to thoroughly investigate/prosecute Republican party wrongdoing. (Does someone have serious "art" on Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid?)
Still, I hope and have some faith that Barack Obama is a very shrewd, yet basically clean, politician, who has a firm grasp of how to accomplish needed reforms. That probably doesn't mean being always totally above suspicion. I don't know how anyone who was could possibly be elected dogcather.

Subject: RE: BS: Senate Seat for Sale
From: Bobert
Date: 13 Dec 08 - 08:28 AM

Well, folks... Seems as if the Republican Party is in such disarray that the only thing they know is to run the same play over and over hoping it will work so expect more of the 90's Republicans with very rich people ponying up to pay for Obama investigations and crate conspiracy theories...

But here's the wrinkle in their play book... Not only will they attack, attack, attack Obama but now are perfectly willing to do Boss Hog's biddin' by trying to lay the fault of the econimic meltdown at the feet of unions???

I personally think this ios ill-thought-out on the Repubs part because the working class has had enough of their bullsh*t about just how much ***they*** (Boss Hog) pays in taxes... The Repubs will lose this argument under these econimic circumstances... The working class will not allow the Repubs to put the load on them... It might play well with the Republican Base put the Republican base cannot sustain the Party anymore...

But let them flail...

I love seeing this...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Senate Seat for Sale
From: Riginslinger
Date: 13 Dec 08 - 08:57 AM

"What your country could do with, is a large measure of fury about being treated like fuckin' idiots."

                     Collectively, we are idiots, and it's not going to get any better until something is done to improve public education.

Subject: RE: BS: Senate Seat for Sale
From: akenaton
Date: 13 Dec 08 - 04:35 PM

Genie....As my friend Bobert has already noted, there is no sign of even the toenail clippings of a progressive polititian in Mr Obama's administration.

With the financial edifices crumbling around us and the spectre of the worst depression in living memory looming over us,I will repeat what I said months ago.
"The US doesn't need a mealy mouthed Harvard lawyer as leader.....they need a "rabble rouser" to unite the people who will bear the brunt of the crimes committed by previous administrations, both Republican and Democrat....Fuck the politicians, they were instrumental in creating this corrupt mess. Its patently obvious who our real enemies are, so let the people unite against them....not fight and argue amongst themselves.

Over here in Scotland we have a saying in the old Scots tongue, "Ye need smeddum tae be richt coorse....or richt kind"

"smeddum" is bravery, guts, the ability to be inspired to go on, when the obstacles seem insurmountable....spirited.
The American people at this juncture need smeddum to rid themselves of the parasites who have preyed on them for decades and made their country a pariah to the rest of the world.....Ake

Subject: RE: BS: Senate Seat for Sale
From: GUEST, heric
Date: 13 Dec 08 - 05:35 PM

We are being treated like fuckin idiots. However, I think the problem is more that we are growing lazier while still wealthy, as opposed to collectively idiotic. In about twenty years, people may take to heart what Akenaton is saying now - But as it is, Obama gives us hope and pablum. Ake is an inspiration, and it would be nice to get him a forged birth certificate, but it's too soon for the message.

Subject: RE: BS: Senate Seat for Sale
From: Ebbie
Date: 13 Dec 08 - 07:11 PM

"A rabble rouser"? Huh? Someone like Huey Long? Or George Wallace? Or Sarah Palin?

Just what do you think the chances are of getting such a person elected in the US? Or in the UK, for that matter.

I suggest that you shovel your own manure before you chastise the citizens of another country.

Subject: RE: BS: Senate Seat for Sale
From: Bobert
Date: 13 Dec 08 - 09:35 PM

Yo, Ake,

Yeah, I'm not terribly impressed with the folks that Obama has appointed but I do understand his strategy...

Me??? I woulda had every nufall leftie I could find but that's me...

Obama, on the other hand, ain't me an' he's gonna try to pull an end-around on the establishment usin' establishment players...

Hey, it's ballsy but it might work...

I'll be the first to admit that I would have picked Dennis Kucinich to be Secretary of Stte but maybe Hillary (oh, I hate to say this) will do a better job than Dennis would have done...

I donno... I'll give Obama 6 months to a year and then make asessments...

Until then I'll blast away where I think it is needed...

Remember, Ake, that I am kinda new at this... Ya know, supporting a Dem... Last time I did this was when Jimmy Carter was elected so...

...I'm a little outta practice....

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Senate Seat for Sale
From: GUEST,Sawzaw
Date: 13 Dec 08 - 11:28 PM

Bobert:

Tell us that funny story again about Obama buying that beat up airplane and he had to spend $500,000 in campaign money on it to make it acceptable.

You know with the custom embroidered seats and so forth?

Subject: RE: BS: Senate Seat for Sale
From: Amos
Date: 13 Dec 08 - 11:34 PM

"CHICAGO (Reuters) - President-elect Barack Obama's choice for White House chief of staff spoke to Illinois Gov. Rod Blagojevich's office about who the governor should appoint to replace Obama in the U.S. Senate, the Chicago Tribune reported on Saturday.

The talks did not suggest that Rahm Emanuel, currently a Chicago congressman, was involved in an alleged deal-making scheme for the Senate seat that has resulted in federal charges against Blagojevich, a 52-year-old Democrat.

The two-term governor and his former chief of staff John Harris are charged with attempting to peddle the Senate position for campaign cash or a lucrative job for the governor, as well as paid corporate board appointments for his wife.

The Tribune, citing sources, reported that contact between Obama's staff and the governor's administration about the Senate seat started days before the November 4 election. The governor has sole power to appoint a replacement for Obama.

Emanuel called Harris with a list of names "acceptable" to Obama to fill the Senate vacancy, in conversations that were captured on court-approved wiretaps, the newspaper said."

Subject: RE: BS: Senate Seat for Sale
From: akenaton
Date: 14 Dec 08 - 05:16 AM

"Just what do you think the chances are of getting such a person elected in the US? Or in the UK, for that matter."

That is exactly the point Ebbie........Sometimes....most of the time, the electoral process will not produce the required product......as in "progressive change"

We all know we need it.
We will never get it with an administration of old guard capitalist warmongers.
The folks who made significant change towards a fairer better society, did so through people power, bypassing the corrupt electoral system.

Sometimes, if we REALLY want to change things, we must be prepared to get our hands dirty!
Don't lecture me on "my country"....."your country". We have lost children to "Your" war and will suffer much hardship, in large measure by the actions of "Your" financial institutions!

Subject: RE: BS: Senate Seat for Sale
From: Riginslinger
Date: 14 Dec 08 - 08:14 AM

"The Tribune, citing sources, reported that contact between Obama's staff and the governor's administration about the Senate seat started days before the November 4 election. The governor has sole power to appoint a replacement for Obama."


             It's important not to lose track of the fact that "The Tribune" is a player in all of this. Further, it continues to amaze me that Sam Zell can take the company into bankruptcy and it doesn't affect his finances personally. He bought the paper in 2007, Obama gets elected in 2008, and right after the election the paper goes into bankruptcy after prolonged attacks on the governor.

             It's just all too weird!

Subject: RE: BS: Senate Seat for Sale
From: Bobert
Date: 14 Dec 08 - 08:19 AM

Bush was right about one thing, Ake, when he said "you are either with us or against us", Ake, ol' buddy, 'cause this ain't Ebbie's war anymore than it is my war or your war... It is "their" war and "they" know exactly who "they" are here in Mudville...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Senate Seat for Sale
From: Riginslinger
Date: 15 Dec 08 - 08:12 AM

Then there's Patrick Fitzgerald. Word on the street is, he brought this investigation to the public now so he wouldn't be fired after Obama took over.

Subject: RE: BS: Senate Seat for Sale
From: Rapparee
Date: 15 Dec 08 - 08:52 AM

He can still be put out of work. Happens all the time.

Subject: RE: BS: Senate Seat for Sale
From: Riginslinger
Date: 15 Dec 08 - 09:09 AM

Oh yeah, he can be. But if Obama dismissed him in the middle of the investigation, it would look like he (Obama) had something to hide, and wanted the inquirery discontinued.

             It's customary for incoming administrations to disimiss all the federal attorneys, and start with new appointees, unless that attorney is involved in an ongoing investigation.

Subject: RE: BS: Senate Seat for Sale
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 15 Dec 08 - 09:21 AM

Riginslinger asserted, in part:

Word on the street is,

"Word on the street" here meaning "hostile speculation", without any attribution. The launching of an ill-natured rumor.

Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: BS: Senate Seat for Sale
From: Riginslinger
Date: 15 Dec 08 - 10:11 AM

Dave - It's simply an observation; nothing hostile about it. But there's this from the Herald Tribune:


    'Fitzgerald has said nothing about his future as Barack Obama prepares to assume the presidency, often an occasion for turnover among U.S. attorneys. But Richard Durbin, the senior senator from Illinois and a Democrat, has publicly called on Obama to keep Fitzgerald on, and the betting is that he will remain in the job."

Subject: RE: BS: Senate Seat for Sale
From: Genie
Date: 15 Dec 08 - 05:57 PM

Riginslinger, " It's customary for incoming administrations to disimiss all the federal attorneys, and start with new appointees, unless that attorney is involved in an ongoing investigation."
It's perfectly legal -- the new administration does not have to show "cause" for replacing the attorneys in the Judicial Dept. -- but I don't know that it's all that "customary."

What IS unusual is for those attorneys NOT to be perfunctorily replaced at the outset of a new administration but to be fired later, mid-term, for not prosecuting enough people in the opposing party(ies) or for pursuing prosecutions of people in the administration's own party. That's what the G W Bush administration has been doing. And the Dems are wimps for not investigating those firings. The Justice Dept. is not supposed to be an arm of any political party. Those attorneys are supposed to apply the law with equal vigor, no matter who is suspected of violating it.

As for Fitzgerald fearing Obama would fire him, I'd say there's little basis for such fear. Obama's already shown willingness -- too much, in the minds of most progressives -- to keep on key people from the Bush administration and to behave in a "post-partisan" way.

Subject: RE: BS: Senate Seat for Sale
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 15 Dec 08 - 06:46 PM

ALL THE SEATS are for sale...ask any lobbyist!

Subject: RE: BS: Senate Seat for Sale
From: Riginslinger
Date: 15 Dec 08 - 08:15 PM

Genie - I didn't explain myself very well. I didn't mean to suggest that Fitzgerald would fear that Obama would fire him. Fitzgerald could certainly find a position that would pay many times what he makes as a US Attorney.

                   The thing that seems to drive Fitzgerald is not money, but the trail of the hunt. He wants to see the cesspool of Chicago politics drained. If the Blagojevich thing had not been exposed now, the case might very well have gone undetected by the media. By bringing the whole thing public now, Fitzgerald has stressed the point that other "Blago" connections should be followed. That would include Tony Rezko and others who have had contact with Obama and his chief of staff, and other members of his Chicago political ties.

                   If the case had not been made public now, those connections probably would not have surfaced until historians had a go at them sometime in the future.

Subject: RE: BS: Senate Seat for Sale
From: Genie
Date: 15 Dec 08 - 08:23 PM

"If the Blagojevich thing had not been exposed now, the case might very well have gone undetected by the media."

Seriouslyb doubt that, Rig.   The bigger danger - and I think Fitzgerald wanted to avert this - was that Blago would go ahead and appoint someone to the Senate, which would then make the Senator appointee suspect.   That would have been a much bigger can of worms to have to deal with.   It certainly makes sense for Blagojevich to be busted before he did that much more damage.

As for the media, au contraire.   They'd have had a field day with a humongous, widespread political scancal that could be seen (spun) as threatening to bring down the Illinois governor, other Illinois politicians, the new Democratic administration, and perhaps the Democratic party as a whole.

Subject: RE: BS: Senate Seat for Sale
From: Riginslinger
Date: 15 Dec 08 - 08:36 PM

They didn't seem to know a thing about it until Fitzgerald made his announcement. And then there's the problem with the Chicago media, and whose pocket they might be in. Sam Zell was considering the governors demands, at least by some accounts, to can some of the Tribunes editorial staff. He, of course, looks out for number one.

             The way it is now, though, it could easily become the next Whitewater. Kenneth Starr must be chomping at the bit.

Subject: RE: BS: Senate Seat for Sale
From: Genie
Date: 15 Dec 08 - 09:12 PM

Seems to me you're the one chomping at the bit, Rig. *g*

Oh, and Whitewater turned out to be much ado (and much taxpayer money spent) about nothing.

Subject: RE: BS: Senate Seat for Sale
From: Riginslinger
Date: 15 Dec 08 - 10:12 PM

Exactly!

Subject: RE: BS: Senate Seat for Sale
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 16 Dec 08 - 01:37 AM

From: Genie
Date: 15 Dec 08 - 09:12 PM

Seems to me you're the one chomping at the bit, Rig. *g*

Oh, and Whitewater turned out to be much ado (and much taxpayer money spent) about nothing.

Expecting Starr to 'find out' anything was like asking the weasel to guard the hen house! He wasn't supposed to find anything...just give the appearance that something exhaustive was being done! The higher the game, the shallower the motive! Bush/Clinton, have long ago been in bed with each other. Fooled you again, didn't they??

Subject: RE: BS: Senate Seat for Sale
From: Riginslinger
Date: 16 Dec 08 - 02:48 PM

My best guess is, there wasn't anything to find, and they knew that before kicking off the investigation.

Subject: RE: BS: Senate Seat for Sale
From: DougR
Date: 16 Dec 08 - 05:14 PM

Obama made it quite clear at a recent press conference that his choice for Chief of Staff at the White House met with the Governor or his representatives and presented a list of nominees Obama would find acceptable to fill his senate seat. It has been reported that the Governor expressed disgust (to put it nicely) that all he could expect from Obama, should he award the senate seat to someone on his list, would be "appreciation." I cannot believe that Rahm Emmanuel did NOT report this information to Obama. If he did, Obama was aware of the Governor's illegal efforts BEFORE Fitzgerald held his press conference and broke the news to the world.

I believe that Obama could be culpable for not reporting the Governor's shenanigans to proper authorities. Remember, Obama was not aware that Fitzgerald had the evidence on tape. Better still, Obama should have called a press conference and exposed the Governor himself. That would have made him a hero and would have assured the public that he truly planned to mount a transparent administration.

Anyone who believes Obama had anything to do with the possible selling of his senate seat is just not thinking clearly. He is not stupid.

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Senate Seat for Sale
From: Bobert
Date: 16 Dec 08 - 05:31 PM

Maybe you haven't noticed, Dougie, but Obama has been extremely busy of late in making appointments and getting his transition team up and running... He's probablu putting in some long days and, guess what, the choice of who will replace him in the Senate is something that he really doesn have time to get bogged down with and is letting his staff do what any responsibile staff would do in making the various contacts...

I know that the Repubs are despondant because they just got trashed in the election but playing the same old Watergate play isn't going to help them one bit in the long run... They need to find an identity that is something other than snooping and bashing... Snooping and bashing ain't in these days... That is why Obama won with such a large margain...

My suggestions to the Repbs is hire some control groups and run some of this stuff by them before the knee-jerk stuff...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Senate Seat for Sale
From: Genie
Date: 16 Dec 08 - 06:26 PM

Doug, you're right that Obama isn't stupid enough to have offered Blagojevich anything but his appreciation for considering the replacement candidates he found acceptable.
But for him to have 'blown the whistle' on Blago, he'd have to have known what the governor was doing, and for all we know, it never got any further than Blago CONTEMPLATING "selling" the Senate seat and discussing with his own staff the wish to do so. We don't know that he actually ever proffered a quid-pro-quo to anyone.

The taped conversation where Blago says of Obama, "F___ him!" was not a conversation with a member of Obama's staff.    How do you know Rahm Emmanuel knew about that conversation?

It's also possible that someone on Obama's team did 'drop a dime' on the governor, but we don't really know if any of them had enough evidence of any illegal activity to warrant running to the feds with it.

Subject: RE: BS: Senate Seat for Sale
From: Bobert
Date: 16 Dec 08 - 06:39 PM

Doesn't much matter to Dougie, Genie... He's a team player and if the Repubs decide that their best game plan is to try to make chicken salad outta chicken sh*t then by golly that's what they are gonna try to do...

But it isn't going to work 'casue the American people are fed up with brand of politics and if the Repubs push it they will find themselves a 3rd Party in the not too distant future...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Senate Seat for Sale
From: Riginslinger
Date: 17 Dec 08 - 08:04 PM

Well, the court's not going to do it!