BS: BBC bias

Subject: RE: BS: BBC bias
From: Stu
Date: 23 Sep 15 - 08:17 AM

"as they run the capitalist system much more efficiently."

No they don't, they simply give it free reign to do what it wants regardless of the consequences.

Subject: RE: BS: BBC bias
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 23 Sep 15 - 08:28 AM

"Besides I don't think they make pots and pans out of exotic steels"
A wry comment, nothing more, Mr Okehampton.
Your comment on British steel sums up the situation perfectly - poor administration due to it being run down over twenty years for political reasons gave an excellent, world class product the reputation which you and those who ran the industry down describe as "crap"
British Steel, just like the rest of British manufacturing industry, was sacrificed to Mammon on the altar of profit - greed triumphed over quality and the workers who dedicated their lives carried the (probably shoddily made cheaply bought from abroad) can back.
You and yours seem to revel in denigrating British products
Jim Carroll
I take it you know the story of the man named Woodcock who came up on the football pools and changed his name to Okehampton!!

Subject: RE: BS: BBC bias
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 23 Sep 15 - 08:58 AM

As long as he doesn't move to Okehampton. Too bloody close to me for comfort.

Subject: RE: BS: BBC bias
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 23 Sep 15 - 09:04 AM

Very dodgy link there, Guest-coward. Anyway, so what? What are you going to do with all the other 11 million who aren't terrorists, just ordinary human beings like me and (possibly) you?

Subject: RE: BS: BBC bias
From: akenaton
Date: 23 Sep 15 - 12:12 PM

""as they run the capitalist system much more efficiently."

No they don't, they simply give it free reign to do what it wants regardless of the consequences."

That is exactly how capitalism runs most efficiently Stu, took me seventeen years to work that out and another sixty trying to convince my comrades that the "efficiency" was of very little benefit to them or society.......the problem was not the Conservatives, they knew and believed in what they did. It was the "trickle down socialists" like Jim and Steve, people who believe that minority "rights" validate a corrupt economic system.

Subject: RE: BS: BBC bias
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 23 Sep 15 - 12:29 PM

Say goodnight to the folks, Gracie...

Subject: RE: BS: BBC bias
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 23 Sep 15 - 12:50 PM

Funny, when I worked in another country, making the control valves used in nuclear power stations, the steel for the top quality valves was specified to be British. Hands on stuff, Terribilis, as well as stock and quality control.

Subject: RE: BS: BBC bias
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 23 Sep 15 - 01:05 PM

""trickle down socialists" like Jim and Steve,"
Don't you dare label my socialism as anything when I have at no time mentioned what it is.
I believe a socialist system would very much improve the lot of Britain - but I will never live to see it and when it does happen, it will be a very bloody, much resisted affair.
What we have been discussing is no winning socialism for Britain or anywhere, but improving the lot of British working people under the existing capitalist system - Corbyn might make that happen, on the other hand, he might be bought off with a company directorship or a seart in the Lords, as have many other 'workers' champions'.
It certainly wont happen by attacking the rights of homosexuals, or supporting one-policy racist parties like Ukip, or pro-capitalist Nationalists like the S.N.P., or setting worker against immigrant, or smearing middle-of-the-road moderates as 'liberals' or do-gooders, or cap-doffing to royalty.
Your contempt for Arabs who would attempt to improve their lot by opposing despotic feudalist is a pretty fair debunking of your claim to being a socialist.
All the socialists I have ever known have regarded themselves as Internationalists and identified with revolutionaries all o#ver the globe, no matter what their nationality, religion (if any) or means of winning a better and fairer life for their people.         
I never met one who opposed immigration, or sneered at womens' rights, or equality of status for homosexuals and other minorities - not one.
I asked you what your definition of Socialism was and where you stood on things like public ownership of the means of production and distribution - I received no reply - how exactly do you define your particular brand of socialism - it's certainly totally alien to anything I've either experienced or read?
How on earth do you come to the conclusion that I or Steve believe or have ever suggested that minority "rights validate a corrupt economic system."
The rights of minorities are essential to any society which describes itself as civilised and an absence of and opposition to those rights is a sure indication of that society being neither civilised or democratic - but those rights alone certainly do not make for a fair and equal society.
We make the best of what we can of the existing situation while working for a better one - we don't sit in our armchairs sneering at those who are happy to work for short-term gains - as you do.
I was an active trades unionists for nearly all of my workinhg life - I didn't for one minute expect it to being revolutionary change by working for decent working conditions and a living wage for me and my mates.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: BBC bias
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 23 Sep 15 - 01:24 PM

Amen to all that. Let's face it, akenaton. If you're a socialist I'm the Queen of Sheba.

Subject: RE: BS: BBC bias
From: akenaton
Date: 23 Sep 15 - 04:33 PM

All REAL socialists make sure they get their priorities right.
You muppets have it arse for elbow.

Didn't you notice what that nice Mr Blair got up to in the name of Labour?.....The whole Party is rotten, eighty per cent of them would stab Mr Corbyn in the back to save their "liberal" hides.

Didn't you see the elder statesman Straw begging for money, he would sell his fucking Granny......If he's that bad what are the underlings like?....They are not one whit better than the Tories, just less honest.
Just like you pair of frauds.

Subject: RE: BS: BBC bias
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 23 Sep 15 - 06:11 PM

Nurse...

Subject: RE: BS: BBC bias
From: akenaton
Date: 23 Sep 15 - 06:58 PM

Stop annoying the nurse Steve, dry in up yourself you dirty dog.

Subject: RE: BS: BBC bias
From: GUEST,big al
Date: 23 Sep 15 - 07:45 PM

well its too bleeding hi tech for the present gang of charlies to produce as good knives and forks Terry.

Anyway i'd take Yorkshire Yankee's husbands word for it - he was a metallurgist at Sheffield University.

Subject: RE: BS: BBC bias
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 23 Sep 15 - 08:19 PM

"All REAL socialists make sure they get their priorities right."
You have yet to say what yours are - which, I think, sums up your socialism.
Ypu have been asked to explain how your bizarre ideas equate with any existing form of socialism and resort to name-calling - your silence speaks volumes.
One more try eh - it's a reasonable request?
How do you define your socialism - and how do you square it with your support for extremist right-wing groups like Ukip, and the non-socialist SNP?
Game, set and match, I think.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: BBC bias
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 24 Sep 15 - 04:53 AM

Jim,
Yesterday, (22 Sep 15 - 08:18 PM ) you posted about Israel evictions in Gaza.

It was not true, and you ignored Joe questioning it.
Was it a deliberate lie, or did you believe it?
If you believed it, was if just ignorance of the situation in the region, or were you duped by all the lies on the anti-semite and anti-Israel sites?

Anyway, you should explain putting a falsehood on the forum.

Subject: RE: BS: BBC bias
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 24 Sep 15 - 05:02 AM

The EU have agreed to send aid to Syrian refugees in the region and to discourage migration to Europe.
That has been Britain's policy all along.

Subject: RE: BS: BBC bias
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 24 Sep 15 - 05:27 AM

"It was not true, and you ignored Joe questioning it."
I did not suggest there were evictions in Gaza - I coupled the ongoing evictions in Israel with the destruction of Gaza by the Isreali regime - if you read the links that I posted (break a lifetime habit), you will see that is exactly what they say.
If the Israelis succeed, they will have ethnically cleansed Arabs from the entire area and not just Israel.
Do not accuse me of falsehoods, read what I submitted in their entirety and not just the bits that suit your support for a terrorist state.
"The EU have agreed to send aid to Syrian refugees in the region and to discourage migration to Europe."
Great - stay in the war zone and die where we can't see you and we'll give you some money
"That has been Britain's policy all along."
Of course it has - don't want those nasty foreigners over here taking our jobs and houses.
At least we won't have pictures of drowned children cluttering up our nice newspapers.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: BBC bias
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 24 Sep 15 - 05:40 AM

i think to be honest Jim, there has always been this sort of odd miscegnation between lowly sections of british society with right wing organisations...our version of the white trash phenomenon.

the difference is in england we have quite a few second generation immigrants involved in setups like UKIP.

i guess, but i don't know, the leaders of all our political parties are a bit 'from another planet' socially. the 'bloke-iness' of Farage seems very effective. he has 'the common touch'.

Subject: RE: BS: BBC bias
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 24 Sep 15 - 05:50 AM

That's just it. The EU's pathetic response to this crisis means that millions either have to stay in Syria, though displaced (five million and rocketing) or in the permanent tent cities from hell just across the borders in Turkey, Lebanon, Jordan and, for Christ's sake, Iraq (another five million and rocketing). The ones we see on the move and who make the uncomfortable news headlines are the tiny tip of a massive iceberg. You really haven't got your head round this, have you, Keith? You think that diverting a bit of our aid budget to make Cameron look tough on immigration is going to solve this, do you? Pigs might fly, Keith (I bet Cameron wishes now that one of his had done).

Subject: RE: BS: BBC bias
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 24 Sep 15 - 05:53 AM

The Pope has the common touch too, Al, but that doesn't stop him from being the head of an organisation with some very nasty policies.

Subject: RE: BS: BBC bias
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 24 Sep 15 - 07:07 AM

Jim,
It has been calculated that unless evictions are not stopped to make room for Israeli settlers, and unless reparation is not paid for the damage done by last years invasion, Gaza will no longer be viable for occupation by the Palestinians....

You did say it, and Joe queried it too.
You chose not to respond.

You now acknowledge that it is not true.
Thank you.

Steve,
You think that diverting a bit of our aid budget to make Cameron look tough on immigration is going to solve this,

I do not think that.
Solving it is beyond our grasp.
Moving the population is not a solution either.

The EU (left and right wing governments) recognise that helping the refugees in the region while working to make the place safe again is the best that can be done.

Subject: RE: BS: BBC bias
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 24 Sep 15 - 07:44 AM

Jim,
Great - stay in the war zone and die where we can't see you and we'll give you some money

Jim, in the camps they are safe from the war.
In making the journey to Europe, unknown hundreds, probably thousands, die where we can't see them.

If all countries sent aid like we do, they would not need to flee the region.

Only about half the migrants are from Syria anyway.
And only 13%women.

Subject: RE: BS: BBC bias
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 24 Sep 15 - 07:58 AM

You're not listening. Around ten million Syrians have been displaced. Around five million are in tent cities living in terrible conditions. The people we see on the move are a tiny part of a massive humanitarian crisis. "In the camps they are safe from war". That's all right then. I suppose they're all sitting round cosy campfires singing boy scout songs.

Subject: RE: BS: BBC bias
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 24 Sep 15 - 08:38 AM

I suppose they're all sitting round cosy campfires singing boy scout songs.
If you suppose that you are deranged!

"In the camps they are safe from war". That's all right then.
No. They are safe from the war, but far from all right.
Why do you make statements like that Steve?

You're not listening. Around ten million Syrians have been displaced. Around five million are in tent cities living in terrible conditions.

I do not need to listen to you. I Know!
I was trying to make an issue of this when just one million has been displaced.
See my attempt to get it discussed on the very first Syria thread, started by me.
It was you who was not listening.

The people we see on the move are a tiny part of a massive humanitarian crisis.
Yes. The ones with thousands to pay for the journey.

Around five million are in tent cities living in terrible conditions.

Yes, but they would not be living in terrible conditions if other countries gave as much as Britain.
Far more than any Eu state, second only to US, and in proportion to our GNP more than any country in the world.

Subject: RE: BS: BBC bias
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 24 Sep 15 - 08:54 AM

Subject: RE: BS: Homs horror (Syria, 2012)
From: Keith A of Hertford - PM
Date: 06 Mar 13 - 04:56 AM

New milestones.
Death toll now put at 70 000.
Refugees now reached one million.
7 000 fleeing Syria every day.



None of you had anything to say about it then.
I was listening.
You were not.

Subject: RE: BS: BBC bias
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 24 Sep 15 - 09:00 AM

Subject: RE: BS: Homs horror (Syria, 2012)
From: Keith A of Hertford - PM
Date: 07 May 13 - 03:10 AM

The refugee crisis is a humanitarian catastrophe.
No-one knows what to do.



Again, no reply or response from anyone.
You were not listening.

Subject: RE: BS: BBC bias
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 24 Sep 15 - 09:26 AM

Well, apart from your twisting and wriggling and misrepresentations at 08.38 am, which everyone can see for themselves and requires no comment from me, you started the Homs thread for the specific purpose of having it back at the people you saw as critics of Israel. Your opening post said, gratuitously, "Israel is attacked at every opportunity while worse criminals, even those next door, get a free ride." That was your agenda, not bleeding heart sympathy for the plight of Syrians. So the thread went the usual way. If people don't respond, or respond negatively to you, it is because you are treated here as having extremely suspicious motives. As in the case of that thread.

Subject: RE: BS: BBC bias
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 24 Sep 15 - 09:58 AM

Steve, there was no "wriggling and misrepresentations " in my post.
That is a misrepresentation!
Just actual, copied quotes.

When I started that thread there was not a refugee crisis.
Later (2013) there was and I posted about it, as you have seen.
No one was listening.

Subject: RE: BS: BBC bias
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 24 Sep 15 - 10:03 AM

My full OP that thread, which you also misrepresent.

"I thought it about time the forum responded to this atrocity.
I condemn the action of the Syrian government, and China and Russia for supporting and supplying the heavy weapons being used with such indiscriminate abandon.
Mudcat is like UN General Council and agencies.
Israel is attacked at every opportunity while worse criminals, even those next door, get a free ride."

Subject: RE: BS: BBC bias
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 24 Sep 15 - 10:23 AM

I think it is probably time for a beer...