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BS: lost forever
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Subject: RE: BS: lost forever From: GUEST Date: 06 Sep 00 - 12:29 PM Perhaps, kendall. Maybe we're genetically predisposed to push against the envelope, as anyone who's tried to beat their personal best or build a better mousetrap would attest. Maybe it has something to do with The Fall, of being evicted from the Garden Of Eden back at the beginning. There's a loss for ya, as Jon observed way up there. Exiled to the godless ghetto of the Universe, forced to live out from under the protective umbrella of God. And trying to scratch our way back into the Inner Sanctum. |
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Subject: RE: BS: lost forever From: Art Thieme Date: 06 Sep 00 - 01:02 PM Might I suggest that a HUGE loss in these modern flush times, in the U.S.A at least, is the loss of the EIGHT HOUR DAY !!! Labor fought for it so very hard and long and so many were beaten and bitten and died for it. The bomb went off at Chicago's HAY MARKET just to secure it "for us all?" ! How the hell, in the last decade or so, did we allow it to get away from us? Where is "time and a half" for overtime? Where is the right to decline overtime if we'd rather have the valuable free time with our families or whatever?? To me the decline began when Raegan busted the air traffic controllers union when they were on strike. It was a bunch of folks who were actually white-collar trying their hand at a blue-collar task---a serious strike. They didn't have the cajones for it. Raegan knew they were wimps and hit 'em hard. That victory gave him momentum to go after a real blue-collar giant union---the U.S. postal employees and their strike. Now bosses routinely ask people to work 16 hour days. What has happened to the value of time to relax --- time to enjoy the money they say everyone is now earning? I'm on disability now and am out of the loop. Yeah, money is out there, but when cars cost $30,000.00 how can anyone afford to drive --let alone buy a house. Mick or someone---please enlighten me what the hell's gone down here? Art Thieme |
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Subject: RE: BS: lost forever From: annamill Date: 06 Sep 00 - 01:28 PM Art, I may be off base here, but I think a lot of it has to do with foreign businesses coming in. I know in my industry (securities) many of the companies are foreign owned and they demand longer hours. When I went to work for First Boston, they told me I would be expected to put in a minimum of 10 hours a day and at least one weekend day. Being a consultant, it wasn't to bad, but I worked next to employees who were required to put in the same time. This is due to competition from foreign companies here in NY. The salaries are fantastic, but it's understood that this salary includes overtime. Plus we have a lot of foreigners that come and are willing to work long hours for less pay. I think this might have something to do with the longer hours problem. Now, on the other hand, many companies, like where I work now, have a 35 hour work week. That's only 7 hrs. per day of salaried people. I'm still a consultant, but older now with a better hourly rate and I put in only 7, 7.5 hours a day. I'm one of the lucky ones. Hope that helps some. Love, annamill (I still want to write annap)
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Subject: RE: BS: lost forever From: Lox Date: 06 Sep 00 - 01:37 PM You're not way off base, but you have to go a bit deeper. If you are interested in some well researched analysis of this subject, check out Noam Chomsky. Another good author is Seymour Melman. |
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Subject: RE: BS: lost forever From: kendall Date: 06 Sep 00 - 03:07 PM Things will go back to normal when the republicans get in!! lol |
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Subject: RE: BS: lost forever From: Kim C Date: 06 Sep 00 - 05:07 PM Wow, Leej, that's good. I do believe that Reconstruction would have been a whole different ball game if Lincoln had not been killed. It's kinda funny, here in the South, there's still people who have it in for Abe because he called for troops to put down the rebellion. Not a good call, really, but what else was he supposed to do? It was Sherman who said war is hell, and he wasn't kidding. Abe Lincoln was always one of my heroes. As far as the Holocaust and other such massacres are concerned, I can't even begin to touch on that because I would not be able to get the words out right. But you're right ---- how many valuable contributions were lost as a result? (PG-13 ALERT) How about the loss of modesty? People now will show just about any part of their person, then they get mad if you stare. Well, excuse me, but if you wear a skirt that barely covers your ass, or you stuff a cucumber in your trousers, aren't you trying to get people to look? Am I wrong? Fashion designers seem to equate "bare" with "sexy" and sometimes it works. But if you ever watch an awards show, you know it doesn't work more often than it does. Jennifer Lopez may have got a lot of attention in her navel-baring dress, but I didn't think it was attractive. (and no, I'm not jealous, even if my stomach was that flat which it will be one of these days you would NEVER catch me in something like that) And one more thing - maybe I don't want to see your boxer shorts! Pull up your damn pants!!! I mean, can't we leave a little something to the imagination? Sometimes half the fun is in the undressing. Aw, you know what I mean................. |
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Subject: RE: BS: lost forever From: Lonesome EJ Date: 06 Sep 00 - 06:27 PM No,Kim. Please keep going... |
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Subject: RE: BS: lost forever From: Lanfranc Date: 06 Sep 00 - 06:41 PM The greatest loss? How about a sense of proportion? Paedophiles and rapists have always been there, they are just better publicised nowadays. The risks aren't greater, or different, just better known. The archive quality of books is suspect - stick to tablets of stone for real permanence. If books weren't meant to be burned, why are they made of paper? Ditto papyri. The dinosaurs were probably pretty fed up about extinction, but they made way for the mammals. Who will we make way for? Nature will get its own back on our profligacy, and probably sooner than we think. In a thousand years will some ant sit at an anternet terminal and bemoan the loss of humans?
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Subject: RE: BS: lost forever From: GUEST,Theodore Cleaver Date: 06 Sep 00 - 06:54 PM I had a Kendall Morse tape that Eddie Haskell threw under a steamroller. Then I got a Rick Fielding CD and threw that under the steamroller too. |
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Subject: RE: BS: lost forever From: Mike Regenstreif Date: 06 Sep 00 - 06:56 PM |
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Subject: RE: BS: lost forever From: Lonesome EJ Date: 06 Sep 00 - 06:59 PM Yeah I know what you mean.My Art Thieme CD put a big dent in the roller and damn near knocked the operator out of his seat.Powerful stuff that Mudcat Music. |
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Subject: RE: BS: lost forever From: Mike Regenstreif Date: 06 Sep 00 - 06:59 PM I agree with Deborah's post about the Holocaust. Mike Regenstreif |
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Subject: RE: BS: lost forever From: CarolC Date: 06 Sep 00 - 07:07 PM Jeri, I also think you are a very wise lady. When I first joined the Mudcat, another person who I consider very wise, Jon Freeman, gave me an opportunity to understand how different (and even special), communicating over the internet is as opposed to other forms of communication. I had made a remark, in all innocence, about wanting to communicate with people from non-English speaking countries because I had Celtic burnout. I was speaking musically, but Jon very kindly pointed out that some Celtic people who's first language in not English might misunderstand, and think I was speaking linguistically. I apologized immediately to anyone who might possibly have been offended. Not because I felt I had done anything wrong, but because I want to make every effort I can to unnecessarily avoid giving offense. I think there is a greater chance of being misunderstood when communicating in this medium than perhaps with any other. I have found, however, that if we spend some time thinking carefully about what to post before we actually do it, we can drastically reduce the amount of animosity that, quite frankly, I think does serious damage to the Mudcat. I think the disturbing events of a couple of months ago when one of our members was forced to go underground, are a good illustration of this point. So, I'm coming out in the open and asking people to keep in mind, when we post, that we are not speaking to other people in our own living room. We are speaking to large numbers of people, all over the world, many of whom have different cultures, beliefs, and assumptions and ways of comunicating than we have. It's a big responsibility, but, in my opinion, the rewards are great. Warmest regards to all of you, Carol |
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Subject: RE: BS: lost forever From: Lox Date: 06 Sep 00 - 08:00 PM The internet actually has the potential to create greater cultural awareness, doesn't it. Here I am, a bit stoned, sitting in a half lit room, in a small flat, in a small town in England, "chatting" to people thousands of miles away, all of whom are living inconceivably diverse lives. It's like having an imaginary friend, except that your imaginary friend is actually a whole plethora of personalities, representing an immeasurably wide range of cultural bias and opinion. Think about this as you look over your shoulder at the familiar confines of your room. The first scholars, who found that a message can be carved in stone, are looking down on us proudly tonight. Anyway, I've probably understated how stoned I really am, so I think I'll leave this thought for y'all to dissect at will. Any smart comments and I'm going to bed. |
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Subject: RE: BS: lost forever From: kendall Date: 06 Sep 00 - 08:07 PM One out of 10,000...not bad odds really. |
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Subject: RE: BS: lost forever From: CarolC Date: 06 Sep 00 - 08:13 PM Thanks, Lox |
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Subject: RE: BS: lost forever From: Peter K (Fionn) Date: 06 Sep 00 - 08:27 PM Lonesome wonders how many Shakespeares we lost in the holocaust. Well I'd say we were unlucky if we lost just one. Billions and billions of us so far, and just the one Shakespeare to show for it. To think we might find one among a mere six million or so is stretching it a bit. I don't make light of the holocaust, but I am bothered that one-million-plus hatcheted to death in Ruanda, out of a total population of 4 or 5 million, doesn't come close in popular recollection. About 55 million died in WW2. Something like 100 million were killed by wars in the 20th century. Right now we're trading diamonds with militias for which slashing the arms off kids is a defined strategy. Just for once I'm sorry to see Brendy apologising - I was with him until he did. Kendall wants to get his head around that fact he gave us, that a guy was murdered for missing a penalty. (But there's an "o" in Colombia, as someone pointed out in another thread.) |
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Subject: RE: BS: lost forever From: Lox Date: 06 Sep 00 - 08:52 PM Ken Saro-Wiwa (Nigeria) murdered for being a writer by a scared government. Who's next? Mumia Abu Jamal? He's on death row now in the states. Do some research, find out about the guy, start a campaign and save his life. |
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Subject: RE: BS: lost forever From: Brendy Date: 06 Sep 00 - 09:13 PM Indeed Fionn. Just as there is no "a" in paedophiles. Thanks for 'seeing my point', though. I felt no need to pursue the matter further, as I took it by kendall's apology that he had no wish to. B. |
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Subject: RE: BS: lost forever From: kendall Date: 06 Sep 00 - 09:59 PM I still feel that same way about comparing sports to real losses, but, it was becoming a one on one with Brendy, and, that is out of place here. Actually, the Nazis butchered 12 million people, not 6 million. That included Slavs, Gypsies and homosexuals. |
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Subject: RE: BS: lost forever From: kendall Date: 06 Sep 00 - 10:02 PM What say we just let this thread die? If you must have the last word, go, but I'm finished with it. |
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Subject: RE: BS: lost forever From: Brendy Date: 06 Sep 00 - 10:22 PM What would that 'last word' be: BS: lost forever B. |
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Subject: RE: BS: lost forever From: CarolC Date: 06 Sep 00 - 10:55 PM kendall, this is a good thread. Re: your boredom, and needing to alleviate it by saying things that piss people off. Have you considered taking up chess? ;-) All the best, Carol |
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Subject: RE: BS: lost forever From: Lonesome EJ Date: 07 Sep 00 - 01:03 AM Fionn,I agree that there have been many other great atrocities committed,but few with the cold will and brutal skill of the Nazis. In many of the tests that might determine that a people had reached the pinnacle of civilization,particularly the application and evolution of technology and science,Germany in the 30s and 40s would have passed with flying colors. But that this science,which had taken a place of worship and hope that only God had held before,should be applied by man for the purpose of exterminating his neighbors...it presents a loss not just in terms of human life and potential,but a likewise great loss in man's belief that he is evolving toward the Angel side of his nature,and not the Beast. |
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Subject: RE: BS: lost forever From: Lox Date: 07 Sep 00 - 07:59 AM Hmmmmm. The Incas, Aztecs, Sioux, Navajoe, Blackfoot etc might have something to say, as would most of west Africa between the 17th and 19th centuries. Australian Aborigines , The soviet unions "disappeared", not to mention the "disappeared" in Chile might have something to say too. Check out the Dutch East India Company's record in what was the Dutch East Indies (Jakarta, Timor, Banda etc). Check out Pol pots record in Cambodia, or Suharto's record in East Timor. I take nothing away from the tragedy that was the nazi holocaust, I am adding to it, by pointing out that that type of thing has been going on for hundreds of years. In truth, of course, it's been going on for thousands of years, and will probably happen again. As I pointed out before, an innocent man is about to take the electric chair for being a good writer in the US. I will finish though with a quote which puts the second world war into perspective. "...not all the victims were jews, but all the jews were victims..." |
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Subject: RE: BS: lost forever From: kendall Date: 07 Sep 00 - 08:49 AM To get some music into this, there is a song about the Canadian govt. wiping out the natives in Saskatchewan in the 1800's. The line that gets me goes: Come Gabriel we'll make a stand, here at Batoche beside the river, and never mind their Gatlin guns, if we lose this time, we've lost forever.. another hooker in it goes..Their dreams were lost, and their spirit died.. You would have to be made of wood to not be moved by this song. |
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Subject: RE: BS: lost forever From: SINSULL Date: 07 Sep 00 - 09:23 AM Jim Henson. Not on the scale of the Holocaust or the Library but a terrible loss. |
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Subject: RE: BS: lost forever From: Peter K (Fionn) Date: 07 Sep 00 - 09:46 AM Amen to that Lox. There's never been much chance of the Angel side of us prevailing, this last few thousand years - though you put that point well Loneseome, and I took it. And amen to saving Mumia Abu Jamal, before he too is lost forever. (I almost expect cases like this from Saudi Arabia, East Timor etc. But the USA???) |
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Subject: RE: BS: lost forever From: kendall Date: 07 Sep 00 - 11:58 AM What about Leonard Pelltier? |
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Subject: RE: BS: lost forever From: GUEST Date: 07 Sep 00 - 12:42 PM Of all the things I've lost, I miss my mind the most. |
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Subject: RE: BS: lost forever From: kendall Date: 07 Sep 00 - 02:49 PM That's it..I'm outta here! |
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Subject: RE: BS: lost forever From: Lanfranc Date: 07 Sep 00 - 06:48 PM A thought from the grim IMF-subject England of the 1970s. Is this the way the world ends, not with a whim, but with a banker? If there is ever a last word, I bet it will be (in any language) "Ohhhhhhshit!" (always assuming there's time)
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Subject: RE: BS: lost forever From: Lox Date: 07 Sep 00 - 07:25 PM I'll remember that one. |
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Subject: RE: BS: lost forever From: catspaw49 Date: 07 Sep 00 - 08:02 PM Fortunately Lox, you don't have to remember it. Under amny circumstances that is the "autoword." Its a fact that the most frequent last word uttered by pilots on cockpit voice recorders is "Oh Shit." Spaw |
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Subject: RE: BS: lost forever From: Lox Date: 07 Sep 00 - 08:14 PM I meant Lan Francs perversion of (was it by Dylan Thomas) the poem "this is the way the world ends" (not with a bang but a whimper) |
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Subject: RE: BS: lost forever From: catspaw49 Date: 07 Sep 00 - 09:34 PM Yeah I know......but being me, I'm more inclined to go for the "Shit" part........sorry. Spaw |
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Subject: RE: BS: lost forever From: Lox Date: 07 Sep 00 - 09:42 PM Hey, ... I like shit too ... erm ...what I mean is ... um ... what I actually meant ... er ... oh shit! |
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Subject: RE: BS: lost forever From: Art Thieme Date: 07 Sep 00 - 09:53 PM As of today, September 7, 2000, what about MP3 ? To me, it seems they got what they had coming. Art Thieme |
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Subject: RE: BS: lost forever From: Art Thieme Date: 10 Sep 00 - 03:15 PM REFRESH: Very interesting. No discussion of the multi-million dollar judgment against MP3 ?? Art |
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Subject: RE: BS: lost forever From: CarolC Date: 10 Sep 00 - 03:48 PM Don't know much about it. What do you think about it? Carol |
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Subject: RE: BS: lost forever From: Amos Date: 10 Sep 00 - 04:46 PM This is not a loss but a wind of change precipitated by technology and new ways of communicating, which will always reform our sense of contract and reality in consequence. The Napster case and the MP3 case are symptoms of the engagement between open communication systems, and commercial structures built on legacies of partition and separation. When the divisions fall before the growth of technical possibility, the dynamics of the market changes. The bloodshed being precipitated in cases like these is a rearguard action. For a beautiful essay or two on this subject see John Perry Barlow writing in the current edition of "Wired". (www.wired.com, but not yet updated!). In an earlier similar essay, he offers the following quote from Jefferson. I offer it to emphasize that balanced against our great losses, we should always also recall the strides mankind has made in the direction of better communication, higher freedom, and most important, new and sometimes better ideas: "If nature has made any one thing less susceptible than all others of exclusive property, itis the action of the thinking power called an idea, which an individual may exclusively possess as long as he keeps it to himself; but the moment it is divulged, it forces itself into the possession ofeveryone, and the receiver cannot dispossess himself of it.
- Thomas Jefferson Regards, Amos |
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Subject: RE: BS: lost forever From: CarolC Date: 10 Sep 00 - 08:05 PM What about creations? |
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Subject: RE: BS: lost forever From: Art Thieme Date: 11 Sep 00 - 02:13 AM All of these things are whatever the Supreme Court might say they are at any given moment---at least in the U.S. To the extent that legal edicts can be enforced, that is what will be. Other stuff is just lost. Art |
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Subject: RE: BS: lost forever From: Wincing Devil Date: 11 Sep 00 - 11:53 PM I was gonna be flip, and say something silly, like Star Trek (TOS) or a 10 cent box of Good and Plenty. None of us can go back and change anything. These things happened and we have to go on. Like someone said, If the library of Alexandria had been saved, the US Civil War would have been fought with Atom Bombs. Each thread we try to re-ravel only un-ravels umpteen more threads. Threfore, I think the greatest loss is the ability to learn from one's mistakes, not to repeat them and just go on.
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Subject: RE: BS: lost forever From: kendall Date: 12 Sep 00 - 08:20 AM The point is, we will never know, Devil. We can only guess. |
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Subject: RE: BS: lost forever From: SINSULL Date: 12 Sep 00 - 09:37 AM A 13 year old boy, murdered by a pair of pedophiles who received their inspiration from NAMBLA. The ACLU is now defending NAMBLA's right to dispense information on circumventing the law in order to engage in pedophilia. And of course the entire gay community will be blamed. |
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Subject: RE: BS: lost forever From: kendall Date: 12 Sep 00 - 05:58 PM what kind of jury would let that scum walk? |