BBC 4 folk program

Subject: RE: BBC 4 folk program
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 12 Feb 06 - 05:39 AM

rather you than me Greg.

perhaps all these things they show are quite interesting - although to be honest - you felt a little bit privileged being at Cousins at the time - you knew once the secret was out about this music - it would turn into music for rich folk like Ronnie Scotts across the road - which was thiry eight bob to go into as opposed to the 7/6d for the cousins all nighter.

I think maybe as you say all that's wrong with the programme is its stated aim the folk music of Britain - bit of a talll order anyway -its pretty diverse stuff.

Subject: RE: BBC 4 folk program
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 12 Feb 06 - 10:37 AM

Can anyone explain how Peter Knight of Steeleye Span on ' All Around My Hat ' managed to make his fiddle sound exactly like a mandolin ?

eric

Subject: RE: BBC 4 folk program
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Feb 06 - 10:56 AM

it would turn into music for rich folk like Ronnie Scotts across the road - which was thiry eight bob to go into as opposed to the 7/6d for the cousins all nighter.

Well, it never happened. It's still the poorest paid form of proffessional entertainment in Britain!

Subject: RE: BBC 4 folk program
From: GUEST,Hen Harrrier
Date: 12 Feb 06 - 11:05 AM

Thoroughly agree with the comments regarding Reg Hall, he's done sterling work over the years including very enlightening research into the Irish musical community in London. A very under-rated man in my opinion.

Give him is own TV programme for the sake of the tradition!

Subject: RE: BBC 4 folk program
From: GUEST,DaveS at work
Date: 13 Feb 06 - 02:48 AM

It was remiss not to at least mention the impact that younger solo performers like Nic Jones, Tony Rose, Sean Cannon, Martyn Wyndham Read, Dave Burland, Dick Gaughan and Peter Bellamy had on the scene in the late sixties and early seventies.
I don't accept that the rise of electric folk had any detrimental effect on MacColl's popularity as I saw him at least once a year between 1968 and 1973 and he never failed to pack a room.
And how did Donovan get away with talking such drivel. Can anyone remember him from a folk club or similar pre 1965? As I recall the folk scene at the time totally ignored him while those not quite on the scene but into Dylan etc showed him their arse. Donovan was a product of the pop scene of the time. Nothing else.
Otherwise I quite enjoyed it.

Subject: RE: BBC 4 folk program
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Feb 06 - 04:22 AM

Ah, now if you listened carefully, Donovan was of the folk scene because he spent a year or two bumming round europe being "bohemian" and this links him with the 'hobo tradition' as demonstrated by Woodie Guthrie......... Frankly it made no sense to me at the time, much like Donovan 'I'm working class, honest', himself.

On the whole I found it interesting. I was born in 1966 so I've no idea what went on at the time in question. I got into folk through Steeleye Span, because they had a popular hit single. My parents were into jazz and easy listening, so I had no idea the folk world even existed until my early teens.

I found the follow up programme a waste of time, why couldn't they just have included the few extra bits in the first programme? But I've got to say I've found the spoof funny, but that's 'cos I've met people like that in various worlds, not just the folk one.

The BBC has admitted, over the last few years, to how badly their archive has been handled. Huge tracts of film and VCR have been lost due to bad storage, programmes have been taped over (in the case of VCR) and much else has just been plain lost. For a long time there was an active policy of disposing of 'light entertaiment' footage as they had a lack of storage space. So a lot of stuff from the 50's & 60's just doesn't exist any more.

Unless the programme makers very actively went to private collections and libraries, I doubt they would have a huge resource to pick from - which, judging by the second programme in the evening, they couldn't be bothered to do.

Watching the programme did bring home to me how big the subject really is, though. 3 programmes just isn't going to do it justice.

Subject: RE: BBC 4 folk program
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 13 Feb 06 - 04:30 AM

I remember Donovan playing in folk clubs, particularly round St Albans, he was just in the right place at the right time, and I'm sure none of the rest of us would have resisited the temptation to make money. So maybe he wasn't cutting edge, and he wasn't writing songs about famine and the unions, he still wrote some good songs and doesn't deserve to be dismissed off hand. Listen again to songs like Gold Watch Blues, and Sunny Goodge Street. He is of more relevance to the UK folk scene than The Pogues or Shane McGowan.
Giok

Subject: RE: BBC 4 folk program
From: greg stephens
Date: 13 Feb 06 - 05:53 AM

The whole historical thrust of the programmes so far seems to be on a sort of evolutionary model, along the lines of those drawings of apes turning into caveman and then modern blonde Aryans striding purposefully towards the future.
In these programmes the apemen are the "common people", who you are allowed to glimpse briefly doing their simple thing in pubs etc. The musicians then strugglle to stand on their hind legs, in a sort of tottering fashion: Peter Pears, Benjamin Britten,McColl, Watersons etc. Then at last, in their full glory, standing upright and proud in the new dawn, we get to the pinnacle of civilisation and Relevance to the Modern Age, Fairport Convention and Steeleye Span. You can see that they are the summit of human achievement, because instead of the short hair of their forebears, they all sport long flowing locks, the men as well of the women. And the trousers: what poet could adequately describe the trousers?
    Trouble is,was Steeleye Span's "All around my hat" actually the peak of reconnecting Britain with its folk music? In my own experience(pretty extensive, I may say) of music making in English pubs, you do not see crowds of swaying drunks singing "All around my Hat". The folk material that everybody, but everybody, knows consists of two traditional songs collected from English singers: "The Black velvet Band" and "The Wild Rover"; and one song written by an Anglo/Scots revival singer, McColl's "Dirty Old Town". And these songs were not put into wide circulation by strangely moustached folk-rockers, but by the Dubliners, a group of much wilder looking Irishmen. Who, I am fairly confident, were well popular before Steeleye and Fairport, not to mention after.

Subject: RE: BBC 4 folk program
From: greg stephens
Date: 13 Feb 06 - 05:56 AM

As an addition to the previous post, I may say that I have photographs of myself available, taken in the 1970's, with extremely long hair, ridiculous beard, and blue and yellow striped trousers.

Subject: RE: BBC 4 folk program
From: Snuffy
Date: 13 Feb 06 - 08:54 AM

Spot on there, Greg. Add in a few learned at primary school (Early One Morning, The Keeper, etc) to make a "top ten" that most people would know.

And bloody good songs they are too, all part of my repertoire - I pity the anal-retentive folk priesthood who look down their noses at these songs which link us back to our "apemen" ancestors who just "did their simple thing in pubs etc".

Subject: RE: BBC 4 folk program
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 13 Feb 06 - 09:24 AM

I have 5 Dubliners LPs; how's that for a confession?
Giok ☺

Subject: RE: BBC 4 folk program
From: Splott Man
Date: 13 Feb 06 - 10:57 AM

The The Joe Gordon Folk Four were Joe Gordon (guitar, vocals), George Hill (electric guitar), Dick Campbell (bass), Callum Sinclair.

Although it certainly looked like an R Thompson clone in the music shop, I think RT would have only been about 11 at the time of the filming.

Subject: RE: BBC 4 folk program
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 13 Feb 06 - 12:59 PM

Donovan deserves to be in the series as his songs are amongst the most popular sung in folk clubs - or didn't you notice?

he was pretty cool at the time - recording bert Jansch songs, taking a song with just solo guitar accompaniment into the top twenty (universal soldier), using the pick of Ronnie Scotts lads on Sunny Goodge Street.

not my favourite songwriter, but a creator of more memorable songs than many slobbered over as being 'in the tradition'.

Subject: RE: BBC 4 folk program
From: Dave Sutherland
Date: 13 Feb 06 - 02:19 PM

No, not in any of the folk clubs that I have visited over the last forty years; and there have been a few.

Subject: RE: BBC 4 folk program
From: stevi
Date: 13 Feb 06 - 02:40 PM

hi all i really enjoyed the programme nice to see the beeb catering for the folk scene! i was quite taken by richard thompson singing adieu adieu is this one of his songs or traditional? programms like this do let people like me see a wider group of artists. A few years ago i got switched on to christy moore via a radio 2 concert' up untill then i never even herd of him.

steve

Subject: RE: BBC 4 folk program
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Feb 06 - 02:42 PM

I seem to remember that "Gold Watch Blues" was written not by Donovan but by the incomparable (or at least, inimitable) Mick Softley.

I wonder what happened to him? (Mick Softley, I mean.)

Maggie

Subject: RE: BBC 4 folk program
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 13 Feb 06 - 02:49 PM

I thought it was a joint effort Maggie, but could be wrong.
Giok

Subject: RE: BBC 4 folk program
From: Pete_Standing
Date: 13 Feb 06 - 03:44 PM

The song sang by Richard Thompson (Adieu Adieu) is traditional. Nicely sung too.

Subject: RE: BBC 4 folk program
From: lady penelope
Date: 13 Feb 06 - 04:58 PM

Sorry It was I who was posting about being born in 1966. The site lied about resetting me cookies.....

As with anything viewed from a distance, it's all too easy to make the wrong assumptions about what you're looking at. Especially if you're not familiar with the subject in the first place, which I reckon the makers of this programme are not.

I'm not saying that Steeleye Span's version of All around my hat was the very best folk could offer at the time (that's always going to be a subjective debate...) but it did get me into folk. My other half (Parker) knows bog all about folk - pretty much that most of it doesn't annoy him - but he found it facsinating to find out even the relatively small amount of information that was presented. That can't be bad.

Subject: RE: BBC 4 folk program
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 13 Feb 06 - 06:31 PM

well i'd be bloody fascinated to know the folk clubs where Donovan's music isn't sung. he is such a natural choice for beginner guitarists and floorsingers. I heard Cutting Out and his version of Keep on Trucking only this last week at Ilkeston folk club - songs off his first album.

Really when you think of it, he is a seminal figure. the sort of celtic mysticism you find in his work points the way that artists like Van the Man and shane MacGowan would take - in much the same way the ISB prefigures the interest in world music.

like I say not my favourite, but a very natural and very important talent. turn YOUR nose up at the peoples' choice, if you like - but don't tell me I haven't heard what I have heard- and if you've ever been within a mile of a folk club, you've heard it too. all too often, one feels occasionally.

Subject: RE: BBC 4 folk program
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 13 Feb 06 - 06:44 PM

Wot?!

Subject: RE: BBC 4 folk program
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Feb 06 - 07:58 PM

Been playing clubs for a lifetime, never heard a Donovan song except from a wannabee floor singer, and then not more than twice.

Subject: RE: BBC 4 folk program
From: GUEST,redmax
Date: 14 Feb 06 - 05:29 AM

"I don't accept that the rise of electric folk had any detrimental effect on MacColl's popularity"

I did find that to be a strange assertion the programme made- it seemed to suggest that MacColl cut an increasingly forlorn figure as he became marginalised. An amusing theory, but is there any hard evidence to back it? It's probably true that the Critics Group seemed a little starchy compared to the new folk-rockers, but that's hardly enough to justify such a flimsy point

"I'm not saying that Steeleye Span's version of All around my hat was the very best folk could offer at the time...but it did get me into folk"

Hear, hear! When I heard this song and Gaudete on the radio it really stirred something inside me, and I'm eternally grateful that Steeleye reached out to the masses, even though some felt they compromised too much in doing so

But what about the programme makers' point that by the end of the 70s folk had become a parody of itself? In order to prove this shaky premise we got footage of the Strawbs playing "Part of the union" and Lindisfarne playing "Fog on the Tyne". Both bands were only on the margins of folk, but we could just as easily have been shown the other hits from the same albums, "Lay down" and "Meet me on the corner". Instead we got each band's more jocular offering, presumably to demonstrate that the scene had turned into one bog joke. Which is bollocks, in my opinion

Subject: RE: BBC 4 folk program
From: GUEST,redmax
Date: 14 Feb 06 - 05:31 AM

Or one "big" joke, indeed. Any thoughts on this? Did folk become a parody?

Subject: RE: BBC 4 folk program
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 14 Feb 06 - 06:13 AM

The Strawbs originally known as the Strawberry Hill Boys, I assume named after the area between Twickenham and Teddington, were when I first heard and saw them playing Bluegrass numbers, and featured a lot of fast banjo stuff.
Have a look at the 1971 review of a gig at the Hop Poles in Enfield here , then note the disappearance of the banjo in succeeding gigs.
The thing that always made me chuckle was the adoption by the unions of the Part of the Union song, when if you listen to the words it is actually a put down of the unions.
I don't know much about Lindisfarne, but never heard them do anything "folky".
Giok

Subject: RE: BBC 4 folk program
From: GUEST,John from Elsie`s Band
Date: 14 Feb 06 - 07:06 AM

Although I have very much enjoyed "Folk Brittania" so far I am dismayed so little has been said about the Folk Clubs and sessions that have been running for 50 years or more, representing the true beating heart of British folk music. As many of you know there are organisers and performers who, for most of their lives, have dedicated (if that`s too strong a word) so much time and energy to the continuance of our musical heritage and these people deserve more credit than is given on such a programme. Many of the artists featured are extra-ordinarily talented, innovative and a joy to listen to but have moved to a plateau that is far removed from British folk music that is still found in all corners of our islands.

Subject: RE: BBC 4 folk program
From: GUEST
Date: 14 Feb 06 - 08:33 AM

Best post in the thread John

Les in Chorlton

Subject: RE: BBC 4 folk program
From: Compton
Date: 14 Feb 06 - 01:18 PM

It occurs that the fleeting shot of "The Spinners" (minus Hughie Jones??) was alittle ironic as "Folk at the BBC" in the late 60's /early 70s WAS the Spinners....but I guess the Luvie that made Folk Brittania wasn't born then!!
Do I remember a strange little Welsh "Folk" Programme with some welsh cult figures called Ryan and Ronnie called "Hob Y Deri Dando".If they had only asked us old Mudcatters what to put in...we'd have told them!!

Subject: RE: BBC 4 folk program
From: jojofolkagogo
Date: 14 Feb 06 - 01:51 PM

Hear. Hear, to "Best post in the Thread, John"

I have heard many, many singers and songs which TRULY ought to be No.1 hit records, and I dont mean that they are the "chewing gum" songs, but beatiful love songs, from such wonderful talent too

May I dare mention Alan Neville (Romford, Waltham Abbey etc) he wrote a song called "I know you are not coming, but I'm waiting anyway" and a real tear-jerker it is too. would make a mint on the "commercial circuit" -
But, hey, who wants THAT !!!

Jo Jo
([e-mail])

Subject: RE: BBC 4 folk program
From: Grab
Date: 14 Feb 06 - 01:52 PM

I just don't get Steeleye Span. Sorry. I got a couple of their CDs (which I'll grant may not be the best sample from which to make a judgement), and realised I'd heard better from halfway-competent pub bands.

Given that I was born in 1974, obviously I wasn't around to hear them at the time. ;-) So I guess there must have been a first person to play folk tunes on an electric guitar, and at the time I guess it was innovative. Looking back on it though, is their stuff really any good?

There are plenty of occasions of people doing things for the first time, and blazing a trail. Guthrie and Dylan for their writing; Dylan for electric guitar accompaniment; Renbourn in reviving old music; Jansch and Graham in mixing blues and jazz into folk - all of those are still recognisably top-quality music today, even though they were new at the time. In the same vein for later music from when I was growing up, Kraftwerk and Queen are still recognisably top-quality music, in spite of being revolutionary at the time. But look back on Steeleye Span, and is it still top-quality, or was it just a novelty of the time, like a folk-rock equivalent of all those permed one-hit-wonders in the 80s?

I know everyone will have their own opinion, but I know where mine is.

Graham.

Subject: RE: BBC 4 folk program
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 14 Feb 06 - 02:35 PM

Steeleye Span was less than the sum of it's parts, some great people there who carried others who might have been better doing other things.
They did though have impact, and that's what made them so attractive to the punters.
Giok

Subject: RE: BBC 4 folk program
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 14 Feb 06 - 03:12 PM

Steeleye were amazing in 1970. The first four or 5 albums were like nothing else. The problem all folk musicians have is to innovate whilst staying within some kind of tradition. Perhaps they just do too much. Silly Sisters was better than much late Steeleye.

The value of live music is that you can still go to small humble clubs and hear the best and the worst music that their is. What will it be this week?

Subject: RE: BBC 4 folk program
From: greg stephens
Date: 14 Feb 06 - 03:30 PM

It was of course absolutely right to experiment and innovate, it was a thrilling time for music. Whether experiments actually lead anywhere, though, you can't really tell at the time. Forty years on, I find it interesting(and often amusing) to see which of our efforts carried on and led to other things, and which didn't.
    If you drive down Porlock Hill(Exmoor) there are some little escape roads. If your brakes fail, and you are going a bit fast, you can turn off into one of these sideroads, and end up stuck fast, but safe, in a massive pile of sand. While the rest of the traffic carries on down the hill, somewhat more cautiously, reaches the bottom and thence to other destinations. The history of the English folk revival is somewhat similar. Of course, the question of which are the escape routes, and which is the main drag, might cause the odd argument!

Subject: RE: BBC 4 folk program
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 14 Feb 06 - 04:24 PM

Going up Camborne Hill Coming Down Sans voie d'etrasse.
Giok

Subject: RE: BBC 4 folk program
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 14 Feb 06 - 10:43 PM

A rummage elsewhere here reveals another falsehood from the programme: it was quite definite that "She moves through the fair" was contemporary and learned by folk singers from a recording by the legendary Irish tenor Count John McCormack. A different story appears elsewhere on the mudcat and the consensus seems to be that the song was trad adapted Colm.

Subject: RE: BBC 4 folk program
From: sian, west wales
Date: 15 Feb 06 - 04:40 AM

Compton, you are right about Hob y Deri Dando although I wasn't in Britain at the time. It was produced by a friend of mine, Meredydd Evans and provided, I think, the first television appearance for our own Mudcatter, BanjoRay. There were other programmes of the same ilk on Welsh TV and I know there are still bits in the archives so Folk Britannia doesn't have any excuse except bad, superficial research, and/or a decision to throw something together to a specific political (small 'p') agenda, and/or throwing the folk community a bone so they don't have to do any more for another couple of decades.

For information, I asked for a statement from the BBC Head of Music and got the following from a press assistant:

"In celebrating the traditional music of the British Isles, from the end of the Second World War to the present day, Folk Britannia had an extensive subject area to cover in only three hours.

"The main theme of the series was that of revival and the programme-makers subsequently focused on the way folk has continually re-invented itself over the years to remain socially and culturally relevant. This narrative thread inevitably led them to focus on certain stories and individuals.

"Programme one focused on Ewan MacColl, a pivotal figure in the English folk revival whose influence stretched beyond the country's borders. Programme two focused on the most experimental artists of the 60s - Pentangle, the Incredible String Band and Fairport Convention - whilst the war between Thatcher and the miners provided a very tangible example of the role of protest songs in folk. Finally, in programme three, the glimpse at the contemporary folk scene focused on the most high-profile figures of the current folk revival (and Danny Kilbride commented very recently in The Observer that there's not currently "a scene as such in any town or region" of Wales) and those who represented the most disparate elements of the folk community.

"There were, unfortunately, many stories left untold by Folk Britannia. Folk music plays an important role in the cultural and social make-up of the British Isles, we only wish we had had more hours to devote to the subject."

For the record, I know for a fact that Danny KilBride was interviewed for an hour by The Observer, which then proceded to take one sound bite and misquote it! Danny's point was that there was no Welsh language folk club scene which was a complete parallel with England but there was an English language one. Possibly the same in Scotland; the programme makers only ventured there long enough to shore up their overall Anglo-centric stance.

siân

Subject: RE: BBC 4 folk program
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 15 Feb 06 - 04:59 AM

The Strawbs song ' Part Of The Union ' was not only a put down, it was avery badly ripped off from Woody Guthries song 'Union Maid' in fact it was shite.

eric

Subject: RE: BBC 4 folk program
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 15 Feb 06 - 05:46 AM

I don't remember Ewan and Peggy being folorn either. they always seemed quite 'up', in the few chats I had with them after their generally well attended and well received gigs. they were proud of what they were doing and believed in it.

the music/record business always seemed to mystify them, but I guess it does us all.

Subject: RE: BBC 4 folk program
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 15 Feb 06 - 06:03 AM

and what really pisses you off about Donovan is that a working class audience would actually be familiar with his material, whereas folk music is of course a pursuit reserved for the middle classes.

that wellknown crap wannabe floorsinger Joan baez recorded Colours. paul weller started his career performing Donovan material. I heard Colours last week at Monyash folk club.

I hold no brief for the man, but this denial of the importance of every artist who doesn't fit into the drab conformity 'the tradition' has done so much harm to the English folk music scene and so often robbed it of its humanity and popularity.

Subject: RE: BBC 4 folk program
From: Ross
Date: 15 Feb 06 - 07:24 AM

I thought the spoof was really excellent afterwards - the actress who played the part was worthy of an Oscar

My favourite lines - Did you sing with your Father? - well no, he said the sound of my voice made him physically sick and

The image of her crying all over her neighbours (she'd only met the day before) at the alternative wake when the 3rd wife had refused her permission to go to the funeral

It rang a lot of bells for me

Subject: RE: BBC 4 folk program
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 15 Feb 06 - 08:29 AM

The thing is that there are a lot of 'good' performers around in folk clubs, there are also a lot of 'excellent' performers around. In order to stand out from the crowd you either need 'charisma' or a gimmick. Now charisma doesn't come over very well on a CD [see Noel Murphy] but gimmicks can if they're aural, and the same is true of visual gimmicks on TV. It's amazing how far a sexy outfit can get a slightly better than average violinist [see Vanessa Mae].
Many 'folkie' performers have in the past 'dressed up' for the TV cameras, I was looking at some of the photo's in the Strawbs link I posted, and the outfits some of them wore were hilarious, but as they no doubt might say, "Hey it got me noticed" and that's really the name of the game.
We have loads of talented people here on the Cat but not enough of them are getting the bookings or the recognition they deserve.
So I suggest that not being in the right place at the right time, coupled with seeing people you know you are better than getting not very well deserved recognition, is one of the justified causes of the carping attitude that comes from some of us.
How many of us can look at or listen to some new 'discovery' and say I know somebody who can sing/play/dance/whatever better than him/her. Different strokes for different folks added to the fact the 'Life sucks'make this an unfair world, and we just need to get over it.
Giok

Subject: RE: BBC 4 folk program
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 15 Feb 06 - 01:27 PM

Folk music is the tradition. Anything else may be excellent, but it is not folk music. Check the definition.

Subject: RE: BBC 4 folk program
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 15 Feb 06 - 01:43 PM

True enough Richard but it was, is, and if it is to survive it will continue to be a living tradition. And living things evolve according to the environment they inhabit (Darwin C 18somethin)

Subject: RE: BBC 4 folk program
From: GUEST,Santa
Date: 15 Feb 06 - 01:43 PM

I'm a bit late to this, so excuse me it this posting wanders a bit.

I think the two programmes so far have been good: they haven't named everyone or everything that mattered but how could they? They've taken a few important threads and followed them.

I was taken by the suggestion that the early collections were made with the intention of creating an English concert music as the Germans were too influential: in which case perhaps the basic inspiration came from the likes of Sibelius and Smetana, composers who raided their own folk legacies for national music. The music hall of the period could have been mentioned, too.

There did seem to be too much attention given to the blues origins of US folk, given the time allocated to Bert Lloyd, mention of his Appalachian collecting would have provided needed balance.

The knives were definitely out for Ewen McCall. Although he was given a good hearing, I think there was a little more to be said in favour of his approach. Isn't it right that the songs still existed but without their context? Yes, it was good to hear a "source singer", but surely he wasn't singing the songs in the same way at his age as would have been the case in his youth. Much of what McCall was said to be teaching was only good stage practice (as you might expect from his background). There are those today who claim that traditional songs have to be sung in particular ways: whether their way is better than McCall's I leave to others to decide, but their singlemindedness is equally inspiring/wrongheaded.

I was initially put-off by the programme following appearing to be just a repeat, but have come to feel that it is valuable to see the clips used in the main programme set in full context. Perhaps this should have been made clearer at the start.

I am an unrepentant supporter of both the "soft" face of folk as represented by the Spinners (although personally I would yell for the Blackpool Taverners), and the folk rock of Steeleye Span/Fairport Convention. Both approaches may inhabit the fringes of folkdom, but to me do show a respect for the basic material, and a popular approach to bring it to a wider audience than would ever be gained by purists. It is the people brought by popular acts, in numbers that are whittled down by time and competing interests, that became the audience folk has today.

Performers and fads come and go, the music survives.

Subject: RE: BBC 4 folk program
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 15 Feb 06 - 01:50 PM

I guess their are some folk stalinists about but the majority of folk activity as the level of small active cells of anarchists. They run clubs, singarounds, sessions, dances, morris and other ritual stuff and I suppose that is both the strength and the weakness of it all.

We could all name our favourite folk stalinist and MacColl fitteed the bill more than a bit.

Who was yours?

Subject: RE: BBC 4 folk
From: Linda Kelly
Date: 15 Feb 06 - 03:32 PM

can I just say that Tom Lewis is after a copy of the programmes - I haven' t worked out how to tape from freeview-can anyone help?

Subject: RE: BBC 4 folk program
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 16 Feb 06 - 01:56 AM

It's EWAN MACCOLL ffs, not Ewen MacCall.

eric

Subject: RE: BBC 4 folk program
From: GUEST,Barnacle
Date: 16 Feb 06 - 04:29 PM

I was just over the moon that anything folky could be seen from the sofa of my front room, albeit I thought I had gone to sleep and woken to a repeat at one point - that was confusing.

However, my main thoughts were something like ... Haven't they all aged - surely more than me!!!!!

Subject: RE: BBC 4 folk program
From: nutty
Date: 17 Feb 06 - 12:16 PM

Both programmes seem to have been biased towards what was happening in the South of England and London in particular.
If that had been the case folk music would have died a long time ago.

I started attending folk clubs in 1966 when people would queue for the doors to open and floor singers were rewarded with free entry and free drinks.

Being in the North, my main influences were the High Level Ranters,d Ray, Cilla and Archie Fisher, and the Corries who for my money did as much as McColl in developing and maintaining the tradition.

I'm not sure how much relevance tonights programme is going to have for me. I've never been a great Pogues fan.

Subject: RE: BBC 4 folk program
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 17 Feb 06 - 01:13 PM

The Pogues are to folk what Pope Pius was to contraception.
G