Outraged over Bush! (Hurricane Katrina)

Subject: RE: Outraged over Bush! (Hurricane Katrina)
From: CarolC
Date: 03 Sep 05 - 03:50 PM

One can only hope.

Subject: RE: Outraged over Bush! (Hurricane Katrina)
From: katlaughing
Date: 03 Sep 05 - 04:28 PM

Don, he conserves his compassion...frankly I don't think he has any of any sort...he is totally disconnected from the real world.

Mark your calendars and if you are able, please be there:

On September 24, the ImpeachBush.org contingent will rally in a huge area called the Ellipse - the park at the south side of the White House - for which the anti-war coalition A.N.S.W.E.R. has secured a permit. The Ellipse is literally at the front door of the White House.

September 24 will be a historic day. Hundreds of thousands of people are coming together to engulf the White House in a sea of humanity - to demand an end to the illegal war and occupation of Iraq, and to insist that President Bush, along with Cheney, Rumsfeld and others be impeached for their criminal conduct. Their lies have resulted in the deaths of so many thousands of innocent people - and they must be held accountable.

Subject: RE: Outraged over Bush! (Hurricane Katrina)
From: GUEST,G
Date: 03 Sep 05 - 04:45 PM

DMcG, not good enough and rather confusing. The Army Corps of Engineers will tell you they were designed and built to withstand a Catagory 3 and have been maintained to withstand a Catagory 3 for decades.
Again, never were plans approved to increase the strength.

McGrath, "on trail or impeached" for what?

Subject: RE: Outraged over Bush! (Hurricane Katrina)
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 03 Sep 05 - 04:56 PM

Failing to do their duty. Irresponsibility which led to the death of thousands of innocent people.

For example: "Again, never were plans approved to increase the strength." In a place like New Orleans, in an area constantly threatened by hurricanes, with the records showing that Category Five Hurricanes were on the menu for the US mainland, that was completely crazy.

Subject: RE: Outraged over Bush! (Hurricane Katrina)
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 03 Sep 05 - 05:05 PM

Guest, G

The Army Corps of Engineers people I've seen have said that their budgets had been cut that that their missions were in jeopardy. I'm confused.Why would they contradict what they have said on CNN and other media since 2001 when they speak with DMcG?


Impeach for incompetence, for creating the Homeland Security Department to make us safer, then bringing about the opposite result.

The only two countries in the G8 whose governments would survive a bungle of this magnitude are Russia and the USA. It is a fundamantal weakness in the US system that no matter how badly it does, it is impossible to change administrations between elections.

Subject: RE: Outraged over Bush! (Hurricane Katrina)
From: GUEST,G
Date: 03 Sep 05 - 05:06 PM

McGrath, you will not hear me saying that NOT bringing the levees up to a Cat 5 was okay. "Crazy"? Maybe ongoing gambling with the likes of Mother Nature for decades and decades. Just wanted to be specific.

Irresponsibility? On not reinforcing the levees? Way more than half the people responsible including the original planners have long since gone over the Rainbow to be with Dorothy and ToTo.

Subject: RE: Outraged over Bush! (Hurricane Katrina)
From: freda underhill
Date: 03 Sep 05 - 05:32 PM

Aussies ride out of the hell of the superdome; By Peter Mitchell in Dallas and Frank Walker; September 4, 2005; The Sun-Herald

With a mixture of joy and anger, nine Australian victims of Hurricane Katrina came to the end of their horrific and almost deadly journey last night. The nine spent three terrifying days locked in the New Orleans Superdome indoor stadium with rapists and murderers. They said US authorities did little to protect the innocent victims of the hurricane while they all sought refuge in the stadium.

"Women were raped," Elise Sims, 20, from Adelaide said. "People were stabbed. A man committed suicide. Soldiers shot people. "It was like being in a Third World country but we were in the United States." The group made a harrowing escape from the Superdome to the New Orleans Hyatt Hotel by hiding in the back of a ute. The vehicle sped through the streets of the city to escape looters and snipers who controlled many areas.

Asked what was the worst part of the ordeal, Ms van Grinsven replied: "We couldn't tell you. Let's just say everything." Anthony "Bud" Hopes, 32, of Brisbane, emerged as a hero for the small group in the Superdome, where lawlessness and filth was everywhere. "It was very dicey," Mr Hopes said. "A very bad situation. It was somewhere between a disaster area full of refugees and a jail. The girls were in real danger. We knew we had to stick together. We were a minority group inside a stadium with 25,000 people. "There were gangsters, thugs, rapists, child molesters: anything you want to put in there, it was in there. They were molesting children that we saw. If girls from our group walked to the toilet they were felt up and filthy comments made to them. It was horrible, terrible.

"New Orleans broke down within hours of the hurricane. Once the power went off in the Superdome there was no air-conditioning and no sunlight. We were all locked in the one place with no sanitation, no light, and people were fighting over food and water. "It was the worst experience of our lives. The hurricane was a walk in the park compared to what happened afterwards."

Lisa van Grinsven said she had been terrified. "You couldn't go anywhere without being grabbed and hassled. We stopped queuing for food as we were too scared. The boys in the group said not to go anywhere by ourselves. "I didn't see people raped but we were afraid we would be attacked. At night there were people shouting and screaming. The stink got worse and worse. Everyone was scared."

The Australians' dramatic accounts came as the Department of Foreign Affairs said about 40 to 50 Australians were still unaccounted for, but there were no reports of casualties.

Subject: RE: Outraged over Bush! (Hurricane Katrina)
From: freda underhill
Date: 03 Sep 05 - 05:35 PM

Australians still stranded in danger zone; By Neil Nercer and Ellen Connolly; September 04, 2005, The Australian

THE Federal Government overnight blamed the US for preventing it from rescuing at least 40 Australians still marooned in New Orleans. Buses have ferried at least 24 Australians out of New Orleans, where armed gangs of looters have forced the US Government to maintain its ban on foreign diplomats entering the area. The Australian Government said the ban was hampering its efforts to account for stranded citizens and vowed to keep pressing for access. Foreign Minister Alexander Downer said at least 40 Australians remained amid disturbing levels of violence in the city.

Caught in the argument between the two governments is Melbourne woman Karen Marks, 25, and her 59-year-old aunt, Pamela Whyte, who have been stranded for five days in the New Orleans Convention Centre. The pair have banded together with 15 other people. "It's very scary," Ms Marks said. "We've been crying a lot in the past few days. I don't think I'll ever leave Australia again." Of those Australians who have escaped New Orleans, many were assisted by media organisations. About 15 of the rescued Australians made it out of the troubled city with the help of television crews.

Subject: RE: Outraged over Bush! (Hurricane Katrina)
From: DMcG
Date: 03 Sep 05 - 05:36 PM

I'm sorry, G, if I what I said was confusing. I'll try again. When the engineers wanted to make the levees higher, do you think this was for pure aesthetic effect? Or was it perhaps to try to keep out cat 3 storms that for one reason or another the existing defences may not able to cope with? If the latter, is not the consequence that the decision was taken in the full knowledge that the risk was being borne by the city? I did not claim that the purpose of the proposal was to increase the strength to cope with cat 4 or 5; merely to maintain the cat 3 effectiveness - and that that was denied or at least postponed.

Subject: RE: Outraged over Bush! (Hurricane Katrina)
From: Peace
Date: 03 Sep 05 - 05:38 PM

Thanks for that info, Donuel. Gotta say: it doesn't surprise me. Bush is transparent, stupid and in so far over his head it is frightening. He's showing the same leadership skills now that he showed on September 11. His entire tenure has been about spin control. What a pathetic leader he is.

A gang of countries--over fifty--have offered assistance. I don't know that he's said yes yet. I guess it would be perfectly acceptable to him to have people die on the altar of his vanity. I think the people of the US might feel differently.

An old friend from California called me after Nixon got elected. My friend was quite, uh, very--he was drunk, He said, "Once again the American people have got what they deserve. But why do I have to keep getting what they deserve?" Maybe it's time y'all started asking that question of senators, members of the House and governors. If you ask Bush, y'ain't gonna understand his answer. No one has for the past five years and THAT isn't gonna change anytime soon.

Subject: RE: Outraged over Bush! (Hurricane Katrina)
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 03 Sep 05 - 06:27 PM

So what the initial mistakes may have been made by some late unlamented politicos? By failing to correct them their successors of today take on the responsibility for the mistakes and their consequences.

"It's not my fault the car hasn't got adequate brakes. My father bought it years ago and passed it on to me."

Subject: RE: Outraged over Bush! (Hurricane Katrina)
From: GUEST,G
Date: 03 Sep 05 - 06:28 PM

Okay,it is a forgone conclusion that I don't always make myself clear.

DMcG, what you are saying is correct. (like "G" really knows) but only due to the fact that the entire area, including the Levees, is sinking. I see so much blantant use of blame towards the current administration I feel compelled to jump in. Many, not you, have all but blammed GWB for Katrina and a couple went so far as to suggest his lack of action on Global warming is the cause. We must remember thT WJC did not send the Kyoto treaty to the Senate because they told him they would not approve it. I have said "well, WJC didn't sign it" but that wasn't really fair either. Not his fault.


Jack, budgets have been cut and more than once. But they never provided for the increase in strength above a Cat 3.
At the risk of another semi-conservative shudder, we can only wonder if the increased height would have made any difference with Katrina.
I think not, but, I have no proof. And that was a very strong Catagory 4 storm.

Subject: RE: Outraged over Bush! (Hurricane Katrina)
From: Donuel
Date: 03 Sep 05 - 06:30 PM

I verify the audible "now MR. President put you arm around her"
there were more nearly inaudible comments that could be enhanced.
The microphone being heard was obviously distant.

I was switching between MD comcast channels 60 61 62 and 63. So It could have been MSNBC or CNN etc. but as I recall they were all getting the same basic feed.

http://www.angelfire.com/md2/customviolins/attic.jpg

Subject: RE: Outraged over Bush! (Hurricane Katrina)
From: GUEST
Date: 03 Sep 05 - 06:39 PM

The state of the levee is one issue--that is about blame, and maybe in future the circumstances leading to this tragedy can be debated by economists and engineers and politicians. Another issue--one that is on-going--has to do with a very poor emergency response coordination from almost all fronts. Leadership is lacking: Federal, State and Municipal.

I expect that special ops troops (Delta Force, Seals, Force Recon, etc) could slip into New Orleans and deal with snipers. Yet the most powerful, well-trained and best-equipped military on the planet can't figure out how to deliver food to a stationary undefended target that houses about 20,000 people. WHERE IS AMERICA'S LEADERSHIP? This situation is so far beyond reality that it could be presented as the dictionary illustration for FUBAR.

Subject: RE: Outraged over Bush! (Hurricane Katrina)
From: GUEST,G
Date: 03 Sep 05 - 07:24 PM

Followup is an extremely important aspect of any procedure, plan or ongoing event. Here is my present take and not to absolve any one of blame. GWB declared the region a disaster area almost 2 days before Katrina reached landfall. I sit here wondering who he had assigned to be the point on this. He even appeared on TV the Saturday before pleading with those in the area to evacuate. Discussions on transportation or the lack will be ongoing. (forever, probably)

Should he have followed up with whom ever was placed in charge? Yes, and I suspect he did. Was he properly informed? We will never know. In the grand scheme of things, the President cannot be the incharge person for an impending disaster in one small portion of the States. That is only fair to say. The main responsibility is with Local and Stae Government. With regard to transportation for the people left behind, it was already in New Orleans. You no doubt have seen the pictures of perhaps several hundred school buses. Before the levee break, they were available. As it turns out, the Mayor was cursing and calling for Greyhound buses 3 days later. The young man who found the deserted bus parked on a street and took 100 people to Houston deserves a medal. As far as Greyhound buses are concerned, they don't carry as many passengers as most school buses can. Greyhound busues are designed for long distance comfort and thusly have a smaller capacity than most school buses.

Yes, I an faulting the Mayor more than anyone, with the State Government a close second. They had the transportation but not the foresight to utilize it. Still, there is room for a lot of blame to be spread from Local to Federal Government.

I still think too many expect too much from Uncle Sam and Uncle Sam has become to large in the last 50 years to respond in a rapid and responsible manner.

Subject: RE: Outraged over Bush! (Hurricane Katrina)
From: GUEST
Date: 03 Sep 05 - 07:33 PM

On that we agree. Whole heartedly from where I sit. However, it is not beyond the scope of State and Federal authorities to use helicopters to deliver military MREs to the stadium (as an example). Nor is it beyond the powers of State or Federal governments to insert cops, spec op troops, SWAT teams to deal with incidences of rape, sniping and general lawlessness. Medics are willing to go, organizers, disaster response teams from all over the woirld, firefighters--damn, just name it.

I do not know why this harkens memories of the scenario involving Nero and Rome. But it does, and it is shameful.

Subject: RE: Outraged over Bush! (Hurricane Katrina)
From: freda underhill
Date: 03 Sep 05 - 08:18 PM

speaking of Nero and Rome...

Published on Saturday, September 3, 2005 by the Los Angeles Times
American Caesar by Rosa Brooks

Nero fiddled while Rome burned.

President Bush, who's not big on the classics, probably wasn't thinking about this when he mugged for the cameras Tuesday, playing a guitar presented to him by country singer Mark Wills. But with the photo now Exhibit A for many liberal bloggers, he may find the comparison hard to shake. True, while Bush enjoyed his vacation and strummed his new guitar, a great city was being devastated by water rather than fire. And unlike the Emperor Nero, who was accused by the historian Suetonius of having deliberately started the fire that destroyed much of Rome in AD 64, no one is accusing President Bush of planning Hurricane Katrina. But the Bush administration deserves substantial blame for the scale of the catastrophe in New Orleans.

An excellent article this week by Will Bunch in Editor & Publisher points out that it was the cost of the Iraq war that led the Bush administration to defund efforts to shore up the vulnerable city's levees. After flooding in 1995 killed six people in New Orleans, the Army Corps of Engineers started work on a massive civil engineering project designed to strengthen the region's levees and improve the pumping system that regulates water levels. The work got off to a good start, but in 2003 federal funding started to run dry, leaving many projects — including a planned effort to strengthen the banks of Lake Pontchartrain — on the drawing board. As early as 2004, the New Orleans Times-Picayune began to report that local officials and Army Corps of Engineers representatives attributed the funding cuts to the rising cost of the war in Iraq.

Facing record deficits, the Bush administration cut costs — and cut corners — by including in its 2005 budget only about a sixth of the flood-prevention funds requested by the Louisiana congressional delegation. The war in Iraq also has made recovery from Katrina slower and more challenging. The Army National Guard units normally available for domestic disaster relief found rapid emergency response unusually difficult since so many of their personnel are deployed in Iraq. Although more units were dispatched later in the week, the manpower shortage was painfully evident during the crucial first hours. The Iraq war is not the only reason for insisting that the Bush administration deserves some blame for the magnitude of the still-unfolding catastrophe. After 9/11, the president promised that the nation would never again be so unprepared in the face of disaster. The Department of Homeland Security was created with a view to ensuring that every American city had adequate emergency plans in place for the kind of large-scale crisis that could accompany either a terrorist attack or a natural disaster.

It was an empty promise.

Four years after 9/11, the fiasco in New Orleans underscores our nation's ongoing inability to cope with serious threats. Take public health, for example: Hurricane preparation plans — supposedly prepared with the involvement and approval of Homeland Security officials — were grossly inadequate for ensuring a continued supply of medication to the sick and for the evacuation of the ill and disabled, for cleaning up, ensuring safe drinking water or preventing the spread of disease. With floodwaters, broken sewage pipes, damaged petrochemical pipelines and floating corpses all over the city, no one seemed to have a clear plan.

If a terrorist's bomb, rather than a hurricane, had destroyed a levee around Lake Pontchartrain, no one would hesitate to condemn the administration for its lackluster emergency planning and response.
And federal officials had more than a week's warning that a hurricane was on track for New Orleans — far more time than they'd likely have of a terrorist attack on critical infrastructure. Not everything can be blamed on the Bush administration, of course, but for millions of Americans, the catastrophic aftermath of Hurricane Katrina is likely to stand as an indictment of Bush's false economies, empty promises and foolish priorities.

Consider Louisiana's wetlands, to take just one example. Policies associated with the administration exacerbated the geographical and ecological conditions for severe flooding. Over the decades, oil and gas company actions played a significant role in destroying the wetlands. Other factors also contributed, including residential development and, ironically, the overbuilding of some of the region's levees. But the "man-made" aspects of the disaster highlight the folly of the policies of unlimited development and environmental despoliation that the administration has so consistently embraced.

Two thousand years after his death, Nero's famous fiddling remains an allegory about feckless and selfcentered leadership in times of crisis. Bush's guitar-playing antics in the face of the New Orleans devastation may doom him to a similar fate.

© Copyright 2005 Los Angeles Times

Subject: RE: Outraged over Bush! (Hurricane Katrina)
From: Peace
Date: 03 Sep 05 - 08:36 PM

And here is a remark from the horse's mouth (I may have the end's mixed up here):

Saturday, September 03, 2005
PETER BAKER
WASHINGTON -- President Bush flew to the storm-ravaged Gulf Coast for a daylong tour of devastation Friday and agreed the results of his administration's response to Hurricane Katrina have been "not acceptable," amid a surge of denunciations from political leaders in both parties.

Subject: RE: Outraged over Bush! (Hurricane Katrina)
From: CarolC
Date: 03 Sep 05 - 08:41 PM

What does FEMA stand for? It stands for


Federal

Emergency

Management

Agency


What is the job of FEMA? To manage emergencies.

Did they do anything whatever to manage this emergency? No, they did not. They didn't even set up a command center. Why do we have a FEMA? So disasters like the one in New Orleans wouldn't turn out the way it did. They are people who are specifically trained in MANAGING disasters. That's their area of expertise. It's their JOB.

Would they have forseen the problem of people not being able to get out of the area? Probably. Why didn't they act in this situation? Because they weren't allowed to. They didn't have authority under the new "Homeland Security" umbrella. Whose baby is the Department of Homeland Security? George W. Bush.

Subject: RE: Outraged over Bush! (Hurricane Katrina)
From: Big Mick
Date: 03 Sep 05 - 08:57 PM

One needs only look at their responses to the 9-11 disaster, the pre 9-11 hurricanes, the OKC bombing, and a number of other disasters to know that they know their business. It was being lumped in with Homeland Security that cut their share of the funding (to fund a war and an idiotic tax break), as well as muddied their chain of command and duty responibilities. All one needs to then do is compare the two and you will see the effect of the efficient operation these idiots have created. How many lives?? How many ruined families??

I will concede that the raising of the levees was to improve how they handled in a Cat 3 storm. But that project, and who knows how much it would have helped was shut down cold. And when this man asks the question, "Who could have foreseen the breaches in the levee?" he shows how out of touch he is. The fact is that every simulation done indicated that this was likely.

No excuses. This is shameful and cost lives. And for what??? I wonder how many of these folks who got the $600 tax break wishes now that they had kept that and made the necessary preparations? As you are lining up at the pump for your fucking $3.00+ a gallon gas, ask yourself if these policies have really saved you any money. As you continue to sacrifice your sons and daughters for a war that was built on false premises, ask yourself if this is worth it. Figure out how the gap between the richest and poorest is widening at a fever pitch, and wonder if this man really cares about you.

Mick

Subject: RE: Outraged over Bush! (Hurricane Katrina)
From: Peace
Date: 03 Sep 05 - 09:03 PM

We're paying over $5.00/gallon (did the conversions of liter to US gallon and Canuck dollar vs American dollar) and times is tough. I can look across the Athabasca River without binoculars and see a working oil derrick. Then turn my head and see the price of gas at the pump. Gee, I wonder if there is something strange with this picture? (Sarcasm not directed at you, Mick.)

Subject: RE: Outraged over Bush! (Hurricane Katrina)
From: Azizi
Date: 03 Sep 05 - 09:39 PM

5 days after the hurricane, "the calvary" arrives. Given the stories that have been spread about angry n******, the troops expected violent encounters. Instead, here is what they found:

"People at the convention center had received a single deposit of food and water, dropped from a helicopter, since Katrina's strike. The drop caused a riot; Williams, an Army veteran, said he feared the people clambering onto the pallet of food as it neared the ground were going to pull the helicopter into the parking lot. The craft never returned.

Children slept on laps and on the ground. There was an elderly emphysema patient. A diabetic. The boy suffering from sickle cell anemia, his eyes puffy and his skin yellowish-brown.

The troops arrived Friday, ready for anything.

"You've got to do something," said the nurse in the New Orleans T-shirt.

"We'll get you some help as soon as some people get here," Lt. James Magee said as the troops arrived. "OK?"

Inside, human waste covered the floor. An elderly woman tumbled out of her wheelchair and landed on the ground. Her housedress was soiled. A man had poured fruit punch into an industrial-size bottle of floor cleaner and was drinking it with a straw.

"If you kept a dog in an environment like this, they would arrest you for animal cruelty," said Cindy Davis, 39, the nurse, who had been separated from her group while caring for a patient and stranded at the convention center three days ago. "It's like a cesspool."

Frankie Estes, 80, said she was glad to finally see the troops. It was a glimmer of hope. Friday night marked her fifth night sleeping on the sidewalk in front of the center.

"I haven't had food or water for three days," she said. "I didn't know if I was going to make it."

Source: Los Angeles Times online: 9/3/05 "Met by Despair, Not Violence ;As they begin to patrol the chaotic city, troops are surprised by what they don't find."

By Scott Gold, Times Staff Writer


Complete article: Met by Despair, not Violence


By Friday night, dinner had been served to a seemingly endless line of refugees. Helicopters had begun descending on the convention center, airlifting the most critically ill. The troops had found their mission. It just wasn't what they thought it was going to be.

Subject: RE: Outraged over Bush! (Hurricane Katrina)
From: Azizi
Date: 03 Sep 05 - 09:48 PM

Sorry about my messed up cut & paste effort.

****

Here's a question that is circulating the blogosphere-were some accounts of gun fire and violence in New Orleans made up or exaggerated and then planted and circulated to excuse Bush's and FEMA's failure?

The National Guard couldn't go into New Orleans because of residents gun fire???

Unbelievable.

Subject: RE: Outraged over Bush! (Hurricane Katrina)
From: Peace
Date: 03 Sep 05 - 09:52 PM

"Who could have foreseen the breaches in the levee?"

I wouldn't think much of a unit commander who allowed for a single line of defense. I would be nervous doing structure entry with only an attack line and no exposure line. Reminds me of a line in the flick "Armegeddon" (paraphrased): 'Doesn't it make you feel safe to be blasting off into space riding a rocket that has 11,341 moving parts and carries fifteen tons of fuel and a nuclear warhead--all built by the lowest bidder?

Subject: RE: Outraged over Bush! (Hurricane Katrina)
From: Bobert
Date: 03 Sep 05 - 10:22 PM

Well, excuse me folks fir not gettin' here earlier....

This is Bobert, not mississippitom, buit I is in Mississippi doin' so recodrin' at tom's studio but...

Ahhh, like does anyone rember 9/11???

Wsan't it shortly after that the Bush signed into law the creation of the Department (no less) of Homeland Security??? Isn't it Bush who appointed it's Secretary??? Wasn't it Bush who made decisions on what to fund and what not to fund???

So fir the last three years we've been hearin' state and local governemnts sayin' Hey, Bush is a cheapskate. He tells us to do this and that but won't write the checks"...

Sound familiar? Well, it should because the same thing has happend to "No Child Left Behind"...

(But, BObert, they used up that money to fund a big ol' cumputer to track every danged kid inAmerica so every danged kid can start to be recruited to become cannon fodder...)

Opps, forgot that...

NO, BUSH IS VERY MUCH RESPOSIBLE! (sorry fir yellin...)

He loves to pump out his chest and barg about stuff he has never done but when it comes to really buckin' down and oin' somethin', we got the wrong guy....

He has blown yet another chance to do the right thing...

(No, Bobert, he did the "right" thing...)

No he didn't... Barry Goldwater would have known a thousand times better how to handle this than this drunk frat boy...

Bobert

Subject: RE: Outraged over Bush! (Hurricane Katrina)
From: CarolC
Date: 03 Sep 05 - 10:43 PM

I think it's immaterial, Azizi. Even if the reports of shootings are true, had FEMA been there doing their job from the start, had the people who had no transportation been evacuated, had the National Guard created a significant presence in the area right away, along with the equipment they needed (and that is now mostly in Iraq), had the Red Cross been allowed in, things would not have descended into that kind of chaos in the first place.

Subject: RE: Outraged over Bush! (Hurricane Katrina)
From: GUEST
Date: 03 Sep 05 - 10:59 PM

you want some interesting reading?

Here is a blog page on FEMA director Mike Brown and his history...

and here is a link from that page>

It seems the FEMA diretor has a bit of an image problem among those who knew him in earlier incarnations!.....and he was a big contributor to the Republican campaigns a few years ago.

Mike Parker was former head of Army Corps of Engineers who was forced out after questioning OMBs budget cuts. He says categorically that warnings were ignored.

from **Robert Novak's** column!!...even an arch-conservative admits that the deck was stacked!

"- The dismissal of ex-Rep. Mike Parker of Mississippi as assistant secretary of the Army running the Corps of Engineers produced bipartisan, bicameral outrage -- especially among appropriators. Rivers and harbors presided over by the Corps rival highways as a traditional source of pork, and Parker pleased his former colleagues by criticizing the Bush administration's cuts. It cost Parker his job, and the word in the Senate is that no successor will be confirmed without committing to be Corps-friendly."

I suspect that, as various columinsts get away from minute-by-minute disaster coverage, there will be more.

Subject: RE: Outraged over Bush! (Hurricane Katrina)
From: Bill D
Date: 03 Sep 05 - 11:00 PM

That was me, with my cookie soggy from flood waters!

Subject: RE: Outraged over Bush! (Hurricane Katrina)
From: freda underhill
Date: 03 Sep 05 - 11:13 PM

thats pretty shocking, Bill. the man responsible for directing federal relief operations in the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina, forced to resign from his previous job in the face of mounting litigation and financial disarray.

Subject: RE: Outraged over Bush! (Hurricane Katrina)
From: Peace
Date: 03 Sep 05 - 11:32 PM

Subject: RE: Outraged over Bush! (Hurricane Katrina)
From: Peace
Date: 03 Sep 05 - 11:38 PM

Sorry about that.

It is time that people were outraged about Bush. Would that the outrage spreads to the whole damned cesspool called Washington. Include the lobbyists, the drug companies, the oil companies, the lawyers who manipulate the tax laws for the above--and for themselves. Let the outrage spread to a congress that has abdicated its responsibilites to those who elected them. Let the outrage spread to those who suck the lifeblood from common people. Let the outrage spread to purveyors of crap--the news agencies that check with the Whitehouse press office to determine if their articles can be published. Let the outrage spread to religious leaders who use the name of God to steal money from those who want a seat in Heaven yet have no home on Earth. Let the outrage spread. And let the outraged tell the outrageous that they will no longer stand in lines of soemone else's making. YES, let the outrage spread.

Subject: RE: Outraged over Bush! (Hurricane Katrina)
From: Peace
Date: 03 Sep 05 - 11:42 PM

. . . and stop voting for the lesser of two evils because some political machine tells you the person you REALLY want to vote for can't possibly win. Americans haven't elected a winner in decades. And ya sure as hell don't have one now.

Subject: RE: Outraged over Bush! (Hurricane Katrina)
From: dianavan
Date: 03 Sep 05 - 11:54 PM

Bill D. - Thats outrageous! Not only is FEMA'S director a scoundrel, he's an incompetent scoundrel! Who appointed him? Why? What qualifications or experience does he have?

As usual, the scum rises to the top.

Subject: RE: Outraged over Bush! (Hurricane Katrina)
From: Azizi
Date: 04 Sep 05 - 11:09 AM

See this op ed column by Anne Rice in Sunday's New York Times

Do You Know What It Means To Lose New Orleans?

Here's the end paragraph:

"But to my country I want to say this: During this crisis you failed us. You looked down on us; you dismissed our victims; you dismissed us. You want our Jazz Fest, you want our Mardi Gras, you want our cooking and our music. Then when you saw us in real trouble, when you saw a tiny minority preying on the weak among us, you called us "Sin City," and turned your backs.

Well, we are a lot more than all that. And though we may seem the most exotic, the most atmospheric and, at times, the most downtrodden part of this land, we are still part of it. We are Americans. We are you."

Subject: RE: Outraged over Bush! (Hurricane Katrina)
From: Azizi
Date: 04 Sep 05 - 11:13 AM

And Peace, you write like you were channeling Martin Luther King, Jr with your 03 Sep 05 - 11:38 PM "let that outrage spread" post.

I hear you, man. I give you Big Props for that one.

Subject: RE: Outraged over Bush! (Hurricane Katrina)
From: GUEST,G
Date: 04 Sep 05 - 11:25 AM

Agreed, Peace. The Mayor of NOLA and possibly the Governor of LA should be fired!

Bobert, the Prez is not a Frat boy and doesn't even drink anymore. Which, judging from some of your posts, that can't be said for you. What age range are you in?

Subject: RE: Outraged over Bush! (Hurricane Katrina)
From: Azizi
Date: 04 Sep 05 - 11:43 AM

Guest G:

Firing people? Let's start with Bush and Condi Rice.

And please don't forget Cheney. Has he even commented on the hurricane??

Unbelievable.

Subject: RE: Outraged over Bush! (Hurricane Katrina)
From: DMcG
Date: 04 Sep 05 - 11:43 AM

Agreed, Peace. The Mayor of NOLA and possibly the Governor of LA should be fired!

Well, that would make a world of difference, wouldn't it?

You know, the San Andreas fault, for instance, could go at any time. If we had a few hours notice that it was likely to blow, do you think the plans to get the poor, sick, those without transport - in short the sort of person left in N.O. - to safety are going to be adequate?   What not put pressure on the people with the real power to plan these these things across the whole of the US instead?

In fact, why not try to get through to George Bush that there are other sources of terror than terrorists?

Subject: RE: Outraged over Bush! (Hurricane Katrina)
From: Big Mick
Date: 04 Sep 05 - 11:44 AM

Up yours, G. I see you are the raging sycophant I suspected. You have already adopted the administrations line of "blame the victims". It is the same one that was used on Meet The Press this morning. These assholes will now try and say that it was local officials who failed in the rescue effort and the preparedness plans. Of course, anyone with half a brain understands that the whole concept of taking this wonderfully functioning agency and bringing it into tow was the doings of these masterminds who gave us Homeland Security. So now we see what we can count on from them. We will have our civil rights eroded, and our security lessened. Aren't these the folks that were supposed to bring the much more efficient private industry into government and make it function better? Tell that to the families of those who died for no other reason than a FEMA that had been transformed from an efficiently operating agency to another improperly run and poorly prepared agency. And did it in a lousy 3 years. Well done, he says with tongue planted firmly in cheek.

It just astounds me that with grieving families, and hopeless families, all you want to do is find a way to alibi your political heroes. If this sounds a bit nasty, good. You, and folks like you are self centered assholes.

Mick

Subject: RE: Outraged over Bush! (Hurricane Katrina)
From: Azizi
Date: 04 Sep 05 - 11:47 AM

See this excerpt from a dailykos diary:

"From the UK Sunday papers:
The Observer (sister paper to the Guardian) has a leader headlined:

The week Bush failed America

It was never within President Bush's power to stop the Gulf of Mexico from rising up and battering Louisiana, but it was his duty to respond wholeheartedly once the scale of the catastrophe became clear. It was also possible to anticipate how devastating an effect Katrina would have. There was ample warning. Low-slung between Lake Pontchartrain and the Mississippi river, New Orleans was exceptionally vulnerable to flooding following a hurricane. Precisely such a scenario was cited (in 2001 by the Federal Emergency Management Agency) as one of the most likely disasters to hit the United States, along with an earthquake in San Francisco and a terrorist attack on New York.

After 11 September, the Bush administration reordered federal government and redirected its resources to prepare for the worst. It created a new Department of Homeland Security with sweeping powers. It wrote a blank cheque for the military. The people of New Orleans, stranded on rooftops, huddled in fear of looters, starving and dying of neglect, might reasonably ask how the most powerful country on earth, already on heightened alert, could fail to respond adequately to its biggest civil disaster in living memory.

The conclusion that there has been a monumental failure of leadership is unavoidable. President Bush did not promptly cut short his holiday. He did not offer early reassurance and comfort to the American people, nor, when he did address the nation, did he convince anyone that he had an adequate understanding of the situation or had prepared a muscular response.

It took five days for a mass relief effort to break through to New Orleans. Inevitably, the questions arise: would it have taken so long had the threat been terrorists instead of flood waters? Would it have taken so long had the victims not been mostly poor? Would it have taken so long had they not been black?


The final paragraph reads:


The US projects itself as a beacon of civilisation. That image has been tarnished. Yet it is essential that President Bush attempts to restore the faith of Americans and their friends in the ideals of freedom and democracy. That must begin with addressing these deep-rooted problems..."

by Febble on Sun Sep 4th, 2005

-snip-

For more click
HERE

Subject: RE: Outraged over Bush! (Hurricane Katrina)
From: Azizi
Date: 04 Sep 05 - 12:28 PM

And this is from the Think Progress Blog


"One of the Worst Abandonments of Americans on American Soil Ever"

The president of Jefferson Parish in New Orleans, Aaron Broussard, just issued an emotional appeal on NBC's Meet the Press. By the end, he was completely broken down, sobbing uncontrollably:

RUSSERT: You just heard the director of homeland security's explanation of what has happened this last week. What is your reaction?

BROUSSARD: We have been abandoned by our own country. Hurricane Katrina will go down in history as one of the worst storms ever to hit an American coast. But the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina will go down as one of the worst abandonments of Americans on American soil ever in U.S. history. … Whoever is at the top of this totem pole, that totem pole needs to be chainsawed off and we've got to start with some new leadership. It's not just Katrina that caused all these deaths in New Orleans here. Bureaucracy has committed murder here in the greater New Orleans area and bureaucracy has to stand trial before Congress now.

Broussard then discussed the difficulties local authorities had with FEMA, including one case where they actually posted armed guards to keep FEMA from cutting their communications lines:

Three quick examples. We had Wal-Mart deliver three trucks of water. FEMA turned them back. They said we didn't need them. This was a week ago. FEMA, we had 1,000 gallons of diesel fuel on a Coast Guard vessel docked in my parish. When we got there with our trucks, FEMA says don't give you the fuel. Yesterday — yesterday — FEMA comes in and cuts all of our emergency communication lines. They cut them without notice. Our sheriff, Harry Lee, goes back in, he reconnects the line. He posts armed guards and said no one is getting near these lines…

Finally, Broussard told the tragic personal story of a colleague, and broke down:

I want to give you one last story and I'll shut up and let you tell me whatever you want to tell me. The guy who runs this building I'm in, Emergency Management, he's responsible for everything. His mother was trapped in St. Bernard nursing home and every day she called him and said, "Are you coming, son? Is somebody coming?" and he said, "Yeah, Mama, somebody's coming to get you." Somebody's coming to get you on Tuesday. Somebody's coming to get you on Wednesday. Somebody's coming to get you on Thursday. Somebody's coming to get you on Friday… and she drowned Friday night. She drowned Friday night! [Sobbing] Nobody's coming to get us. Nobody's coming to get us…"

Subject: RE: Outraged over Bush! (Hurricane Katrina)
From: Azizi
Date: 04 Sep 05 - 12:50 PM

Since Mudcat is a folk/blues discussion forum, I think it is appropriate to re-post this dailykos entry that was inspired by the true story that Aaron Broussard, the president of Jefferson Parish in New Orleans, told on NBC's Meet the Press.

"Help's gonna get you

Here's the lyrics I've just written for the "modern version" of a "When The Levee Breaks" type of song. If you want to steal them, add a tune, and cop it as your own, go ahead.

Mama was trapped in the home,
Water was rising, she was by the phone,
Called up her son, "I need someone to rescue me,"
"The Lake's come now, and it's at my knees."

And the son said ...

"Mama, help's gonna get you,
Mama, help's gonna get you,
Mama, help's coming Tuesday,
The governor's called to DC."

Tuesday came, mama was still in the home,
Water still rising, she was left all alone,
Called up her son, "Need someone at the place,"
"Floodin's not stopped, and it's up to my waist."

And the son replied ...

"Mama, help's gonna get you,
Mama, help's gonna get you,
Mama, help's coming Wednesday,
The troops are now on their way."

Wednesday came, mama couldn't get to the door,
Water still pouring all over her floors,
Called up her son, "I'm losing my calm,"
"Devil's still flowing, and He's up to my arms."

And the son yelled ...

"Mama, help's gonna get you,
Mama, help's gonna get you,
Mama, help's coming Thursday,
The President's comin' on down."

Thursday came, mama stood on her chair,
Water still coming, she needed some air,
Called up her son, "Get someone here quick,"
"Flood's still not stopping, it's up to my neck."

And the son sobbed ...

"Mama, help's gonna get you,
Mama, help's gonna get you,
Mama, help's coming Friday,
Just pray and they'll be there real soon."

Friday came, the flood sealed mama's fate,
Mama drowned, went to the Pearly Gates,
... and the angels came down to greet her ...
... and they sang together as a mighty choir ...
... weeping tears into the mighty Mississippi below ...

... they sang ...

"Mama, help's come and got you,
Mama, help's come and got you,
Mama, help's come and got you,
The Lord's taken you from that wicked world."

(Repeat last chorus)

by Ptolemy on Sun Sep 4th, 2005 at 09:05:09 PDT"

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2005/9/4/105148/3626

Subject: RE: Outraged over Bush! (Hurricane Katrina)
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 04 Sep 05 - 12:51 PM

Sometimes when I've been looking at reports about disasters in Third World countries the thought has occurred to me that, if that was happening in a rich country, especially the USA, the numbers dying would be so much lower. In fact that's been one aspect of the unfairness - I'd feel "these people are dying because the people in charge haven't got the resources and the know-how that would save them. If this were happening in America it'd be such a different story."

One of the most shocking thing about this is suddenly to wake up to the ugly truth that it just ain't so. The richest and strongest nation in the world, the superpower that dominates all our lives in all kinds of ways - in a crisis like this it just comes to pieces. The strength is still there all right, but the competence, the ability to use that strength intelligently, it suddenly melted away at the very time it was most needed. That's frightening.

Subject: RE: Outraged over Bush! (Hurricane Katrina)
From: Ebbie
Date: 04 Sep 05 - 01:05 PM

Sorry, freda underhill, but that report you submitted about the terrified Australian youths reads like a National Enquirer made-for-the-market piece.

"almost deadly"= they were not physically harmed.

"We were a minority group inside a stadium with 25,000 people.' Frankly, I suspect that their real fear was of black people.

"There were gangsters, thugs, rapists, child molesters: anything you want to put in there, it was in there." ALL of them? These Australians are young, able bodied people - how much worse for old people, people on oxygen or without their medications, babies, stunned little children...

I guess the US has no lock on "It's all about me, me, me."

Subject: RE: Outraged over Bush! (Hurricane Katrina)
From: GUEST,daylia
Date: 04 Sep 05 - 01:25 PM

So Ray Nagin, Mayor of New Orleans should be fired, G?

Have a listen to his passionate, outraged plea for help on Thurs night!

Subject: RE: Outraged over Bush! (Hurricane Katrina)
From: Azizi
Date: 04 Sep 05 - 01:37 PM

Could Bush stoop this low????

Check this out:

national German TV stations

Presented Bush as a "Potemkin President" for his Biloxi visit (which included staged food distribution photo op, unearthed and translated by Kossacks in a Saturday diary).

Thank God for international reporters. They got the story and could see through the smokescreen. One of the German reporters said that the Presidential stage management, which included bulldozers brought out specifically for the President's photo-op and which were taken away afterwards, was as shocking as the devastation all around from Katrina itself. After being handed a couple of sandwiches, the local people lost their feeding station and were left to fend for themselves.

Still unsolved is the identity of two mysterious and incongruously well-dressed African-American women who appeared out of nowhere in Biloxi to hug and embrace the President and to walk around the (staged) ruins with his arm around them. The women disappeared after Bush left. Two German TV stations have questioned this, and I must say it all looks very suspicious. What do we know about these "victims"? Won't someone in the MSM find out who they are?   
by QuickSilver on Sun Sep 4th, 2005

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2005/9/4/102924/4230

-snip-

"MSM"= {main stream media]

Subject: RE: Outraged over Bush! (Hurricane Katrina)
From: CarolC
Date: 04 Sep 05 - 02:38 PM

Why would FEMA turn away badly needed resources (water and fuel)? Why would they cut emergency communication lines?

It looks to me like FEMA was actively sabotaging the efforts of local people to get control of the situation and save lives.

Why would FEMA do that? I have been tending to think that the problem so far has been a criminal lack of concern by the president and his administration for the lives of the people in the area, but I am beginning to think the problem might be something even more serious and criminal.

It's beginning to look to me like the administration actually wanted to maximize the chaos, tragedy and death for the purpose of accomplishing some kind of agenda. I guess there could be any number of reasons why they would want to do that. The first one that comes to mind is, of course, to make the Democrat governor look bad, and to help them get one of their own elected next time around. I'll be paying close attention from now on to see in what other ways the administration might think they could benefit from such criminal activity.

Subject: RE: Outraged over Bush! (Hurricane Katrina)
From: Peace
Date: 04 Sep 05 - 03:57 PM

Many moons ago I suggested on another thread that the US government was going to try to sieze power on a permanent basis. That is, take control and keep it. I also suggested that this would happen within two years. I felt at the time that the US government (read Neocon group) would manufacture a disaster of some sort--a disaster that would allow them to impose martial law and subsequently use the resulting disorder to 'relocate' Americans to 'holding facilities' (read concentration camps), many of which seemed to be under reconstruction or renovation. The resulting comeback from Mudcat was that I am delusional, crazy, paranoid, conspiracy theorist, etc. All of which could be true.

A natural disaster strikes and the Commander in Chief does what he did on 9/11--recall the six or seven minutes of funk while he sat in the school room in Florida. He does nothing. This time he continues to do nothing also. Well, almost nothing. He continues his vacation and plays guitar; the Secretary of State shops for new shoes in New York; the VP--well, no one ever knew what the f*** he was doing, so that situation remained static (I would opine he was examining the business loss he and his friends suffered and how they could capitalize on the process to rebuild the devastated areas; should be able to glom onto some of the money Congress would undoubtedly apportion to cleaning up afterwards). Within days, over 70 countries offer aid. In what could have been the greatest opportunity to bring peace and understanding to a seriously troubled world--all it would have taken is for Bush to say, "Thank you. As soon as we know what we need we will call on you, and that will be within 24 hours", Bush says nothing. His controllers play a game of 'let's see how much America will tolerate; they are mostly Black and/or poor, so no one really will give a damn', and Homeland Security dithers and FEMA functions worse than a poorly-trained fire department. And people die. So yes, this is a ripe chance to see what Americans will tolerate. And it is a chance for Americans to find out who their enemy really is.

I have a serious question for Americans: You elect people. Do they ever respond to your concerns? Do they answer your questions? Do they do what they said they'd do 'if they got elected'? Or have they become part of the machine that takes your freedom; part of the machine that keeps so many of you below the poverty live; keeps so many of you in ill health; keeps so many of you homeless. Gives your tax money to large companies, excuses the Enrons, allows banks to steal billions then account for that to NO ONE. Allows your money to be spent killing kids in other countries in the name of lies, in the name of oil and extreme wealth for a lucky few.

Ten point five billion--$10,500,000,000: WOW! A whole ten and a half days of war in Iraq. And the kids your government sent couldn't be home to help their families. And Halliburton is doing just fine, thank you very much.

Bitter? You are too f****** right I am bitter. I am bitter because offers of aid were not immediately accepted. Bitter because rescue personnel from around the world had to watch complete and total f****** ineptitude unfold while the citizens of the United States of America died like trapped animals in a sinking ship.

Fire call. Return later.

Subject: RE: Outraged over Bush! (Hurricane Katrina)
From: SharonA
Date: 04 Sep 05 - 04:24 PM

What Peace said in his (her?) last post. Yup, I'm outraged over Bush too, for the record. The citizens of America are dying like trapped animals in a sinking ship, not just literally in New Orleans but metaphorically across the nation. At this point I'd rather have Edward John Smith (captain of the Titanic) as captain of this ship; at least he tried to swerve out of the path of the iceberg at the last minute, whereas GWB won't listen to anybody tell him that he's plowing straight into a glacier.

Subject: RE: Outraged over Bush! (Hurricane Katrina)
From: Lighter
Date: 04 Sep 05 - 04:36 PM

I saw the "photo op" and the two young women. They were emphatically not "well dressed," incongruously or otherwise.

They were interviewed live by CNN not long after. I saw them. They were clearly locals and were unrehearsed. They were the same women.

"Staged ruins" ???? Why bother ? Real ruins are everywhere ! Your source, Azizi, sounds like it's simply not to be trusted.

I personally think a photo op under these circumstances is a waste of time. However...if Bush didn't show up to be seen embracing disaster victims (even for one minute), he'd be pilloried even further for being an uncaring, distant, racist drip. His advisers know this, he knows it, and so does every other journalist and politician. Clinton, Reagan, gimme a name - they all do it. It's part of their job description.

Real journalists are taught to get at least two, preferably three, independent sources for things they haven't experienced themselves. A lot of posters and bloggers, and disaster victims too, just say whatever pops into their heads like it was proven fact, no matter how inflammatory it is. Some of them are doing it deliberately, I have no doubt. They loooooooove to watch chaos on TV !

Let's remember Carl Sagan's advice that "extraordinary claims" (like FEMA out to kill people)"require extraordinary evidence."