MySpace policies - ?

Subject: RE: MySpace policies - ?
From: GUEST
Date: 30 Jun 06 - 07:12 AM

So how many musicians have been "ripped-off" by Myspace since it's inception then. Just curious.

Subject: RE: MySpace policies - ?
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 30 Jun 06 - 07:35 AM

I'm not aware of any artists being "ripped off" but I believe old terms would allow an artist to be "ripped off". Being aware of a risk is not a bad thing. You wouldn't for example argue a ladder with a damaged rung was safe on the grounds that no one to date had a serious accident using it - or would you?

Subject: RE: MySpace policies - ?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 30 Jun 06 - 08:17 AM

That ladder is perfectly safe just as long as no one tries to use it.

MySpace can not rip you off, just as long as...

Subject: RE: MySpace policies - ?
From: GUEST
Date: 30 Jun 06 - 09:29 AM

Hell of a lot of people using that ladder.

Subject: RE: MySpace policies - ?
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 30 Jun 06 - 09:36 AM

Stairway to . . . ?

There's a sign on the wall
But she wants to be sure
'Cause you know sometimes words have two meanings.
In a tree by the brook
There's a songbird who sings,
Sometimes all of our thoughts are misgiven.
Ooh, it makes me wonder . . .

Subject: RE: MySpace policies - ?
From: Lizzie Cornish
Date: 30 Jun 06 - 09:55 AM

Blimey! You lot have been busy with the usual vitriol!

First off...I only wrote to Myspace giving them a link to this thread, mentioning Billy Bragg, who WAS the person who got this changed...and I merely suggested that they needed to sort it out, as it was causing chaos all over the place.

I should imagine, that with 85 million people in Myspace, they had **millions** of similar e mails! I am not and do not claim anything of the credit for this in any way whatsoever. Right then, that's all cleared up then M'Lud!! ("No....no...Burn the Witch...Burn her!")

Billy Bragg is the one who started it rolling and kept it rolling until he got the end he wanted.

However, I have been saying in the past posts, that I've heard from people out in the US who've had never had problems with any of the legal side of all this, and it has been looked into by their lawyers as well. Go figure!!

Good that Billy has got things on 'an easier to read plane' for everyone. Great! Well done that man!

T'aint nothing to do with me though, in any way at all.

And yes, Pudlover is one of my friends, and I'm very proud and pleased to have her as one of my friends....for she's warm, funny, loyal and loving....unlike many of the people on this thread, (or at least the way they have presented themselves to me is how I perceive them to be) and yes she really does know George too.

And yes Jon, she has stuck up for on the R2 board...and she knows that I am very far from being what you think I am. Leave your spite and animosity off this thread and all the others and just get on with your life! You made a **very wrong** decision about me, you have to live with that, there is nothing I can ever do to change your decision. Move on...and stop boring the pants off everyone with your personal problems with me on so many threads!!!! Thank you!

Diane...there is nothing I want to say to you at all, as I've had such a bellyful of your spite, lying and twisting lately. Thank you!

If you want, join Myspace, and there you will discover a whole new, vast, wonderful and welcoming musical world. I

f you don't..FINE!!!

But for Gawd's sake...**either way**...GET OFF MY BACK!!


Thank you all so very much!!


Lizzie

PS.....And I'm very sorry that now that Billy has got things changed you've all got nothing more to moan about...apart from Rupert Murdoch of course....or me....so...Happy Moaning!!

Subject: RE: MySpace policies - ?
From: Lizzie Cornish
Date: 30 Jun 06 - 10:19 AM

Oh!! And one last thing!!


Instead of sitting in here Moaning, Whining, Whingeing, Accusing, Lying....and er...generally being right pains in the whatsits (!!!)....I'd suggest that those, to whom that description applies, go into Myspace itself and listen to some ****** GREAT MUSIC!!!

And here is a wonderful entrance to a Mind-Bogglingly, Open-Minded, Supportive, Kind, Loving and Moaning-Minnie FREE World Of Extraordinarily Rich And Varied Music!!!:

http://www.myspace.com/georgepapavgeris

I sincerely hope that you all enjoy that brilliant music above!


THANK YOU!!


Lizzie

Subject: RE: MySpace policies - ?
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 30 Jun 06 - 10:31 AM

Diane...there is nothing I want to say to you at all

Thank god for that. Hurrah!

Subject: RE: MySpace policies - ?
From: GUEST
Date: 30 Jun 06 - 10:55 AM

Wouldn't it be better to get out, away from a computer screen, and either listen to, or even better, make your own music ?

Subject: RE: MySpace policies - ?
From: Lizzie Cornish
Date: 30 Jun 06 - 11:59 AM

But that is EXACTLY what you CAN do with Myspace.....you can just click on music from around the world and carry on with your life....then click on a bit more...etc.etc.etc.....

And....THEN...YOU CAN BUY THE OFTEN PROFOUNDLY BEAUTIFUL AND DEEPLY MEANINGFUL MUSIC FROM MUSICIANS YOU WOULD NEVER **ever** HAVE DISCOVERED *without* THE MAGIC OF MYSPACE....

....AND..When it arrives...often from the other side of the world....you can put it on...in your own house, or your car...or your iPod whilst walking around....

....AND...****THEN****....you can go home and WRITE to the very person who has made that wonderful music in the first place and who has brought yet more gorgeous sparkling lights and thoughts into your vision, your brain..and you can thank them and in no time at all.....you have new friends!!!!!!!!

AAAAAARRRRRGGGGGGHHHHHHHH!!!!!!

Oh...give me strength!

AND....You can EVEN take your music down to your local folk club/acoustic cafe.....whatever (!!!) and play it to loads of other people to hear, whilst they are tuning up and getting ready to play their own music.......

AND....NONE of this would happen WITHOUT Myspace!!!!!!!

Aaaaaaarrrrrrrgggggghhhhhhhhhh!!!

I now have to go and listen to the wonderful calming music of Ayub Ogada, who, altogether now, "I *only* discovered through Myspace" and then I can remember how very *lucky* I am to know that all of this exists and ponder on the often negative behaviour of some people in here, who seem to want to go out of their way to STOP *ANY* of this from happening in the first place!!!

Aaaaaaarrrrrrrrgggggggghhhhhhhhhhh!!!!

Ayub! I need your music! Hurry up!

http://www.myspace.com/ayubogada


Ahhh....that is *so* much better.


Lizzie :0)

Subject: RE: MySpace policies - ?
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 30 Jun 06 - 12:16 PM

As I understand it, Guest was suggesting doing music for real, not in a screwed up cyber vacuum. Which would involve detachment from a computer keyboard.

However, it's nowt to do with me. If madlizzie's resolve not to talk to me includes not insulting my friends and refraining from talking bollix about that which she knows nothing, I give thanks for tiny mercies.

Subject: RE: MySpace policies - ?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 03 Aug 06 - 03:03 PM

from www.Outlaw.com 31st July

Billy Bragg has paid tribute to social networking giant MySpace after persuading it to change its terms and conditions. The site is owned by owned by Rupert Murdoch's News Corporation and changed its terms after lobbying by Bragg.

"With respect to the guys at MySpace I have to accept that within a week of me writing a letter to Music Week they had complied with my suggestion to change their terms and conditions, so more power to them, I respect that," Bragg told OUT-LAW. "I think MySpace acted in the spirit of the internet."

Bragg has been campaigning for MySpace to change its terms and conditions, which seemed to give rights to music posted there to the Murdoch-backed company. Late last week the site did change its rules to reflect Bragg's wishes.

The new terms and conditions make it clear that the company renounces all ownership rights to musicians' material. Previously, the rules had seemed to assert the company's control over material posted there, though the company claimed that that view was a misinterpretation of the rules.

Bragg had taken down his music from the site when he realised what the terms actually meant. "Sorry there's no music," his MySpace site read until now, "once an artist posts up any content (including songs), it then belongs to My Space (AKA Rupert Murdoch) and they can do what they want with it, throughout the world without paying the artist."

Previously, the rules said that a user would "hereby grant to MySpace.com a non-exclusive, fully-paid and royalty-free, worldwide license (with the right to sublicense through unlimited levels of sublicensees) to use, copy, modify, adapt, translate, publicly perform, publicly display, store, reproduce, transmit, and distribute such Content on and through the Services."

The new conditions read: "MySpace.com does not claim any ownership rights in the text, files, images, photos, video, sounds, musical works, works of authorship, or any other materials (collectively, 'Content') that you post to the MySpace Services. After posting your Content to the MySpace Services, you continue to retain all ownership rights in such Content, and you continue to have the right to use your Content in any way you choose."

"I think the thing I'm most delighted about is that the principle of the right of the producer of the material to ownership and the right to exploit their material seems to have been established on the largest internet community site of them all, which is MySpace, and that's really what I was most importantly trying to do," Bragg said in an interview.

Bragg is as famous for his left wing politics as for his music, which includes 'New England', a hit for Kirsty MacColl. He helped found left-wing pop pressure group Red Wedge in the 1980s and performed widely at benefits for striking miners.

"I want this to be an industry standard now," said Bragg. "There is a danger when corporations try to work out how to make money out of the internet. That is a danager, isn't it? The last thing we want is for people posting on their sites to have to have a lawyer sitting beside them."

The new terms and conditions state that posting material automatically grants MySpace a limited licence to use and modify the content, but says that this is purely a technical issue. "Without this licence, MySpace.com would be unable to provide the MySpace services," said the terms.

Subject: RE: MySpace policies - ?
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 03 Aug 06 - 04:21 PM

Thta was ndeed an excellent result. It does leave me with the dilemma of whether to hail Billy as a hero for sticking to his guns and achieving it, or bemoan his subsequent praising of the evil corporation. I will discuss with my conscience and decide.

It does however put the lie to the conspiracy theories that said Murdoch wanted MySpace so that he could get his dirty mitts on the copyrights of thousands of new songs; clearly not the case, as he relented so easily. It was too simplistic a target for him - no, he wants the medium, not the content. That has always been his approach after all.

Subject: RE: MySpace policies - ?
From: hesperis
Date: 03 Aug 06 - 04:27 PM

Yeah, really, the content would just be a bonus for him. Myspace being *the* best place to go for new music... that's way more important.

(Btw, I'm on myspace and enjoying it.)

Subject: RE: MySpace policies - ?
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 03 Aug 06 - 04:37 PM

I don't think there were too many conspiracy theories around. I think most of the "doubters" believed Murdoch would not be slow in taking advantage of the terms had a suitable oppertunity arisen. I still believe he (and many other businessmen) would have.

Subject: RE: MySpace policies - ?
From: Scoville
Date: 03 Aug 06 - 04:37 PM

I got bullied last week into signing up for MySpace just so I could get into the musician pages (my best friend swore there were benefits if I just had the patience to wade through the teeny-boppers). I have to say I immediately found a bunch of musicians about whom I hadn't known before, and whose CD's I'll probably end up buying. I don't intend to spend a whole lot of time there but I'm glad the music policy was changed so people aren't scared off.





(I also learned that my high school classmates are just as mindless now as they were in 1996, and that my college classmates are much more interesting (even the ones I didn't like) and use much less pink on their page templates. Go figure.)

Subject: RE: MySpace policies - ?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 03 Aug 06 - 07:00 PM

If Murdoch is caught out early enough he is savvy enough not to defend the indefensible. It's PR. Don't forget he can still change the terms any time he wants to.

Subject: RE: MySpace policies - ?
From: Lizzie Cornish
Date: 03 Aug 06 - 07:06 PM

There speaks the lawyer eh?

And....people will be able to remove their sites if that ever gets to be the case Richard.

So, why not leave Myspace alone? It's doing some incredible things for music and for putting people in touch with each other right across the world.

Or was creating a new doubt the intention of your earlier post today and your new post just now?

Don't you just love lawyers! ;0)

Subject: RE: MySpace policies - ?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 04 Aug 06 - 03:33 AM

Lizzie, if peoples terms mean they can have you over, it usually means they will. There are no fairies at the bottom of the garden.

Subject: RE: MySpace policies - ?
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 04 Aug 06 - 03:54 AM

I know, Lizzie, it is too cynical a view for my tender idealistic soul too, but I bow to Richard's experience and the knowledge that humans have a natural entropy towards evil (one bad apple spoils the rest, if they can get you they will etc). I wish it were different, but it isn't.

Richard, it does sound like a Murphy's Law of sorts - does it have a name?

Subject: RE: MySpace policies - ?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 25 Oct 06 - 01:45 PM

I hate to resurrect his again - and I am not re-reading all Lizzie's garbage above, but I've just been reading the myspace terms again. For a client this time.

Do you realise that Rupie can decide to charge what he likes any time he likes - and I haven't found anything that says he couldn't make it retrospective!

The expression you are looking for, George, is "Where there's a hit, there's a writ".

Subject: RE: MySpace policies - ?
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 25 Oct 06 - 11:14 PM

Yes, I remember seeing in the terms that he can charge. I don't see the business sense in that at the moment though. He makes plenty on advertising; the moment he decides to charge I'm outta there and I'm sure many would follow, enough to have an impact on his advertising income. He'd be shooting himself in the foot.

But terms like that are the reason why I treat mySpace as an additional exposure/promotion/shopwindow opportunity, and not as my main portal (my website is that, where I have more control).

Subject: RE: MySpace policies - ?
From: GUEST
Date: 26 Oct 06 - 11:15 PM

Re charging, my guess is that they will take the "premium services" route and ensure those who do pay have a "higher profile".

Subject: RE: MySpace policies - ?
From: Cruiser
Date: 28 Oct 06 - 11:32 AM

This is one of the most informative threads I have ever read on any forum. I've learned a lot about MySpace. It highlights the real life struggles musicians face daily while trying to showcase their music on any viable venue available to them. If not for this thread, I would have likely never gone to the site and listened to the wide variety of good music offered there.

Lizzie, I admire your enthusiasm notwithstanding the somewhat unfair criticisms of your intent by others. Thank you for taking it all in stride thereby allowing all the negative opinions, which are also very important, to be fully disclosed.

Subject: RE: MySpace policies - ?
From: GUEST
Date: 28 Oct 06 - 12:05 PM

Don't you just love it here? Bonnie starts a thread voicing concerns which proved founded. Lizzie comes along belittling any attempt to get to the truth at the matter and now we read Cruisers distortion.

Subject: RE: MySpace policies - ?
From: GUEST,Another guest
Date: 28 Oct 06 - 03:02 PM

>"Thank you for taking it all in stride thereby allowing all the negative opinions, which are also very important, to be fully disclosed."   ??????

Excuse me??

If you'll re-read the thread I think you'll see the "negative" opinions were disclosed FIRST. Since when should anyone thank her for ALLOWING things? That's exactly what she doesn't do.

And some of the points Richard makes sound more like legal fact than opinion. He's the one who should get thanked.

Subject: RE: MySpace policies - ?
From: Bonnie Shaljean
Date: 28 Oct 06 - 03:08 PM

Better watch it, Guests. You'll get accused of spite.

Subject: RE: MySpace policies - ?
From: Cruiser
Date: 28 Oct 06 - 03:28 PM

Well, pardon the heck outa' me
The guests and I will never agree
And now returning to the fray, is that Bonnie lass
All I can say is________________________
Have a fine, dandy day.

Lest I be misunderstood, all of the discussion in this thread has been worthwhile.