Review: Celtic Woman

Subject: Review: Celtic Woman
From: Jim Lad
Date: 04 Apr 07 - 06:48 PM

I've been told THEY ROCK.

Subject: RE: Review: Celtic Woman
From: GUEST,AWG
Date: 04 Apr 07 - 06:53 PM

You got it, Jimbo. If I didnt have a job, Id go to every concert across the USA and Canada.

Subject: RE: Review: Celtic Woman
From: Jim Lad
Date: 04 Apr 07 - 06:56 PM

Please! Tell me more.

Subject: RE: Review: Celtic Woman
From: GUEST
Date: 04 Apr 07 - 06:59 PM

Ha Ha, Finally another fan. Well where to start ...

Subject: RE: Review: Celtic Woman
From: Jim Lad
Date: 04 Apr 07 - 07:00 PM

From the very beginning. Please.

Subject: RE: Review: Celtic Woman
From: GUEST
Date: 04 Apr 07 - 07:02 PM

Ahhh, sarcasm. I see you are bored this evening.

Subject: RE: Review: Celtic Woman
From: Jim Lad
Date: 04 Apr 07 - 07:07 PM

Can't make up my mind whether to watch "A New Journey" DVD or go out to Karaoke.
Relax. Keep an eye on your thread. Some love them. Some don't but they will want to hear from you.
Sorry about the sarcasm.
Glad you've found what you like.
Cheers
Jim Brannigan

Subject: RE: Review: Celtic Woman
From: GUEST
Date: 04 Apr 07 - 07:11 PM

Any relation to Laura ? No worries, I understand sarcasm, Lord knows, I dish enough of it out !! PS Go to Karaoke, and try your hand at some Celtic Woman :)

Subject: RE: Review: Celtic Woman
From: Jim Lad
Date: 04 Apr 07 - 07:14 PM

To my mind, the show is overproduced and the audience too large for "Folk".
Could it be that decades of singing traditional songs to smaller groups has left me with a false impression of what folk music is about?

Subject: RE: Review: Celtic Woman
From: Stringsinger
Date: 04 Apr 07 - 07:14 PM

In my opinion, Mairead Nesbitt is one of the best fiddlers I've ever heard. And undoubtably the sexiest.

Maeve does a definitive version of "She Moved Through The Fair" and "I Dreamt I Dwelt in Tara's Halls"

Orla reminds me of Mary O'Hara but she has her own epic style.

Lisa Kelly has a versatile voice that to me suggests the flowing of honey.

Chloe has a pure innocence and is fantastic in her high range.

Did I also mention that I like them?

I'm a fan.

Frank Hamilton

Subject: RE: Review: Celtic Woman
From: GUEST
Date: 04 Apr 07 - 07:21 PM

You missed the Laura comment, eh? I dont even know if she is still performing or what. By the way, I doubt it has, Folk music has nothing to do with CW, ...see 'Gordon Lightfoot', James Taylor, or Jimmy Buffet, or perhaps Cat Stevens(?), to list a few of the bigger names in Folk. Gordon Lightfoot was born about a half hour from where Im from, although Im sure he doesnt live there any more, probably lives in Toronto or some other big city somewhere.

Subject: RE: Review: Celtic Woman
From: GUEST,AWG
Date: 04 Apr 07 - 07:23 PM

Boy Jim, see what you started ? I bet this thread gets REAL BIG...

Subject: RE: Review: Celtic Woman
From: Jim Lad
Date: 04 Apr 07 - 07:27 PM

So the big production suits your taste, Frank?
Doesn't harm the folk process?

Subject: RE: Review: Celtic Woman
From: GUEST,AWG
Date: 04 Apr 07 - 07:31 PM

Hey Jim, nice to hear you are a performer yourself. I hope you dont 'lipsynch' :) Just kidding, Im sure you do, doesnt everybody?? LOL Everyone except CW that is.

Subject: RE: Review: Celtic Woman
From: GUEST
Date: 04 Apr 07 - 07:38 PM

I guess when I think of 'folk' music, I think of some of the names mentioned above. However, CW does sing some traditional Irish Folk, mixed with some 'contemporary' numbers, and some pop and classical as well. Boy, what a mixture ! They just take all these types of music and give them a Celtic 'twist'. That has something to do with why they are popular with all age groups and people having varied musical tastes.

Subject: RE: Review: Celtic Woman
From: Joe Offer
Date: 04 Apr 07 - 07:45 PM

Well, I suppose they reek of commercialism, but I have to admit I enjoy their music - I don't mind looking at them, either.
-Joe, not a very good folk purist-

Subject: RE: Review: Celtic Woman
From: John Hardly
Date: 04 Apr 07 - 07:46 PM

It's no longer a mystery what's played in the elevators and waiting rooms of British Isles.

Subject: RE: Review: Celtic Woman
From: Jim Lad
Date: 04 Apr 07 - 07:56 PM

I'll have another look. Must be getting old though that it takes some convincing to have me take a second look at pretty ladies.

Subject: RE: Review: Celtic Woman
From: Stringsinger
Date: 04 Apr 07 - 08:07 PM

Jim Lad, I love really talented people. CW is one of the most talented. They have taken the music that they know and presented it in a wonderful communicative way. David Downes is a fine musical director as is Bill Whelan.

They haven't harmed the folk process one bit. They may have helped it along considerably because those who have not had the pleasure of hearing Irish music will thoroughly enjoy what CW does and this may inspire them to dig deeper into the "tradition".

Jim, there are many performers who have high production value that sing folk-related material. High production could mean an ability to sway audiences....such as Pete Seeger or Paul Robeson....Harry Belafonte, Miriam MeKeba, and although some may groan at this,
The Kingston Trio. I would also place Tommy Makem and the Clancys in this production area as well. This is show business, pure and simple, but it does create interest in folk music and stimulates some to explore furthur.

CW are lovely to look at as well which doesn't hurt.

Frank Hamilton

Subject: RE: Review: Celtic Woman
From: Jim Lad
Date: 04 Apr 07 - 08:21 PM

My wife was extremely impressed with the fiddler and is a very good fiddler herself. I on the other hand, tend to look at the Big Production with a suspicious eye. My problem I suppose.

Subject: RE: Review: Celtic Woman
From: GUEST,Ref
Date: 04 Apr 07 - 08:29 PM

This stuff is very popular, but...I guess I'm too biased towards the Austin City Limits approach. They've got real production values, an intimate audience setting and no lip-synching. This reminds me of the disappointing parts of Cirque Du Soleil, with way too much stately prancing in gowns with big arm movements. I'd looooove to see these artists in an "unplugged" performance. Oh, and I'd like to hear Haley Westenra sing God Defend New Zealand and extend the celtic world a little!

Subject: RE: Review: Celtic Woman
From: GUEST
Date: 04 Apr 07 - 08:36 PM

You know, people would probably be happier if they stopped trying to 'pick apart' a production, and just enjoy it for what it is, that being, an evening of entertainment. Whether it is folk, traditional or contemporary, classical, pop, rock, renaissance, baroque, romantic etc, it doesnt really matter (except for the purpose of giving people something to debate I suppose). If you listen and enjoy, thats all that matters! CW is very enjoyable to listen to, and to look at, regardless of the 'motives' of the production team (at least according to millions of people who pay to see them perform). They appeal to the masses, due to their wide range of musical genres and styles covered. And that they give it a celtic flavour keeps them true to their Irish roots. They may never be as popular as the Rolling Stones or perhaps Eminem, but hey, that DVD is certainly fun to watch and listen to, and how can you complain about that.?

Subject: RE: Review: Celtic Woman
From: GUEST
Date: 04 Apr 07 - 08:49 PM

Hey Ref...Actually, all of the CW singers, and Mairead, have done little else but perform 'unplugged' before CW came to be. Hayley Westenra holds world records(fastest debut to platinum in the world, I believe), and has performed for The Queen of England and President Bush, among others, and Meav was a member of Ireland's most prestigious choir, Mairead is an all-Ireland fiddle champion, also performing for Princess Anne, Lisa Kelly has won numerous singing/performing awards in Ireland, Chloe has been performing since she was about 6, first album at 12 or 13, and is very famous in Ireland, and Orla is a legend in Ireland, her list of accomplishments is a mile long. PS I also enjoy Austin City Limits here in Canada.Great show!

Subject: RE: Review: Celtic Woman
From: GUEST
Date: 04 Apr 07 - 08:55 PM

Check out WWW.CELTICWOMAN.COM. I think you will be very impressed with the girls' credentials. At least you will know for sure that they are for real. Dont worry about 'the big production', just enjoy the music. Riverdance is a 'big production' but I doubt many people left the theatre with a frown on their faces. Bye for now.

Subject: RE: Review: Celtic Woman
From: michaelr
Date: 04 Apr 07 - 09:58 PM

I'll paraphrase what I said when CW first came out : over-produced, twee, pretentious crap. This is Michael Flatley's and Bill Whelan's "Riverdance" legacy -- multi-million-dollar productions of mass-audience pabulum. Yechh!

I love Irish traditional music, (but I'm not a purist by a long shot) and I'm young enough to appreciate the various fusions that have been created by innovators like Donal Lunny. But this does more damage to public perception of the music than even Flatley's abominations did (Lord of the Dance, anyone?).

It's horrible to think that this is what's shown to the world as a representation of "Celtic" music. There should be a law requiring the producers to start the show with a prominent disclaimer along the lines of "We spent a lot of money making these chicks look good, and hiring 73 musicians to back them. But by no means should this show be mistaken for an accurate representation of the current state of Irish music."

Yes, the girls can sing OK, yes Mairead can play the fiddle, yes they're even somewhat nice to look at. And it pleases me to see that erstwhile Coolfin drummer Roy Dodds is still getting paid for leppin' about. But the overall effect keeps making me gag. (I also fault PBS for going for the lowest common denominator in ther music specials. Now they've got "The 10 [or is it 12?] Irish Tenors"... puhleeeeze!)

For fantastic singing and playing of modern-day "Celtic" music, listen to recent releases by Roisin Elsafty, Muireann Nic Amhlaoibh, or Eddi Reader (review forthcoming) instead. And you might ask on thesession.org's discussion forum what players of real Irish music think of this...

Cheers,
Michael

Subject: RE: Review: Celtic Woman
From: GUEST
Date: 04 Apr 07 - 10:25 PM

Oh, Brother.... Some people just dont get it. (maybe try to read a few posts prior to blurting out thy nonsense). The public doesnt percieve ANYTHING, get it? They just want to be entertained for an evening. Who said anything about 'representing the current state of Irish music'. Something wrong with wanting the show to look good, or the girls to look good, or hiring a few musicians to back them up? Get off PBS' back too. The show is designed to drum up pledges. Period. If you dont want to pledge, change the channel and go buy the DVD or even better, maybe buy a few tickets to a show. By the way, explain what you mean by 'real Irish music'. Talk about closed minded!!Sheesh.

Subject: RE: Review: Celtic Woman
From: Jim Lad
Date: 04 Apr 07 - 10:38 PM

Now AWG: I get the distinct impression that you are quite familiar with some of the Political Open Forums. I'll suggest that your manner of debate is just a tad confrontational. Know what I'm saying?
Enjoying the spirit of it all though.
Cheers
Jim

Subject: RE: Review: Celtic Woman
From: michaelr
Date: 05 Apr 07 - 12:51 AM

maybe try to read a few posts prior to blurting out thy nonsense I read them. They didn't convince me.

The public doesnt percieve ANYTHING, get it? Bitter, are we? Frustrated musician? Even if you're not, that's a myopic and incorrect notion of your fellow man.

Who said anything about 'representing the current state of Irish music' Unfortunately, this is the closest thing to real Irish music that's been on mass TV since the Chieftains played at the Great Wall, and those watchers who are unfamiliar with real ITM may mistake an elaborate souffle like CW for the real Irish stew.

The show is designed to drum up pledges. Yes, I know. That's why it's mediocre.

explain what you mean by 'real Irish music'. As I suggested earlier, log on to thesession.org and start a thread asking for comments on CW.

Some people just dont get it Amen.

Cheers,
Michael

Subject: RE: Review: Celtic Woman
From: katlaughing
Date: 05 Apr 07 - 01:02 AM

Michael, I agree with your first posting about them. My sisters called one night to tell me they were on and to give a listen. I couldn't stand them. It seemed so "canned" so "bland" so "unreal"...had to turn it off asap!

Subject: RE: Review: Celtic Woman
From: michaelr
Date: 05 Apr 07 - 02:04 AM

Yep, kat, and many others felt the same way. OTOH, many liked it. Waddaya gonna do?

Original thread here.

Cheers,
Michael

Subject: RE: Review: Celtic Woman
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 05 Apr 07 - 07:52 AM

They're not my cup of tea.

Subject: RE: Review: Celtic Woman
From: GUEST,Ref
Date: 05 Apr 07 - 08:47 AM

I'm with Michaelr. This, and the other craptacular PBS pledge drive offerings are appealing to a particular, moneyed demographic. It's the same group that shells out good money to watch the truly weird Andre Rieux!

Subject: RE: Review: Celtic Woman
From: Jim Lad
Date: 05 Apr 07 - 10:56 AM

HeY! Anybody notice that Sesame Street's Andre Rieux is left handed or am I watching too many kid's shows.
Also, Dorothy (Elmo's goldfish) keeps changing. Makes me a little sad that.

Subject: RE: Review: Celtic Woman
From: skarpi
Date: 05 Apr 07 - 11:08 AM

Where " In Bed or Music " ??



All the best Skarpi Iceland.

Subject: RE: Review: Celtic Woman
From: katlaughing
Date: 05 Apr 07 - 11:11 AM

LOL...Skarpi!

Subject: RE: Review: Celtic Woman
From: Jim Lad
Date: 05 Apr 07 - 11:30 AM

Quite the sense of humour for one who hasn't seen the sun for about six months!

Subject: RE: Review: Celtic Woman
From: artbrooks
Date: 05 Apr 07 - 11:53 AM

Personally, I don't see any reason that Irish/Celtic music necessarily has to be served up by three or four ugly guys wearing tweed hats. CW does mostly standard versions of mostly well-known tunes...and does them very well. Besides, they are cute! I saw the PBS special (it wasn't pledge night) and enjoyed it, and I have a couple of their CDs. On the other hand, I really can't afford to bust $120 for a pair of tickets to a live concert.

Subject: RE: Review: Celtic Woman
From: Jim Lad
Date: 05 Apr 07 - 11:59 AM

"ugly guys wearing tweed hats" hmm! http://jimbrannigan.com

Subject: RE: Review: Celtic Woman
From: artbrooks
Date: 05 Apr 07 - 12:14 PM

I rest my case

Subject: RE: Review: Celtic Woman
From: GUEST,HiLo
Date: 05 Apr 07 - 12:28 PM

I am not crazy about the CW but I can see why people enjoy them. They are entertaining and represent a particular aspect of a certain type of music. No harm in that. However, I do think that PBS does present some very good music during the fundraising thing..Loreen MCKennit at the El Hambra being a case in point. That was great music, And Nigel Eaton played the hurdy gurdy!

Subject: RE: Review: Celtic Woman
From: radriano
Date: 05 Apr 07 - 01:49 PM

I found the Celtic Women show hard to watch, even somewhat demeaning to traditional music. I can see where it would appeal to a general audience but really, prancing around in a sexy fashion while playing the fiddle is just a bit too cheesy as is having to be pretty to sing the songs. The show is overproduced.

Just my opinion, mind you.

Subject: RE: Review: Celtic Woman
From: Jim Lad
Date: 05 Apr 07 - 01:52 PM

Donegal Tweed. That's what's missing!

Subject: RE: Review: Celtic Woman
From: GUEST,AWG
Date: 05 Apr 07 - 04:26 PM

Jeepers, off to work for a day and look what happens, I get called 'confrontational'. Who ME, confrontational? What are ya gonna do about it sukka??   Actually Jim, I thought you might enjoy a little 'confrontation', as these forums sometimes get a little 'dry' and it never hurts to inject a little emotion into the mix. At least a few people seemed to 'get it' (except michaelr). Most people really dont care whether the music is 'authentic Irish' or not, as long as they are entertained, and CW is quite entertaining actually. Those looking for 'authentic' Irish music (whatever that means) will probably look elsewhere. Maybe to something a little 'lower key' and with less 'polish'.(like artbrooks said earlier). But hey, those who like pretty ladies who can sing with the best of them, along with a talented band and drummers, and a fiddle player that kicks butt, along with loads of 'bling' will probably enjoy CW. The rest will probably find what they need at their local Irish Pub (along with the other 10 patrons that night.) :)

Subject: RE: Review: Celtic Woman
From: GUEST,AWG
Date: 05 Apr 07 - 04:50 PM

Hey Jim, see what you started ? This thread has become one of the busiest on the entire forum. Just goes to show you how many Celtic Woman fans there really are out there. (and fans in denial,of course). I bet this thread gets to the top 3 busiest, if not #1. You see, people are 'itching' to talk about CW, and you have given them a place to do it. Many thanks, Jim, from myself and the millions of CW fans out there !

Subject: RE: Review: Celtic Woman
From: Amergin
Date: 05 Apr 07 - 05:05 PM

There is nothing wrong about pretty girls doing good music....Flogging Molly's fiddler is nice to look at too....but this is way too canned and overproduced....much like any boy or girl pop band. And the live performances seem much too uptight....and self important...in effect the music is boring.

Subject: RE: Review: Celtic Woman
From: GUEST
Date: 05 Apr 07 - 05:23 PM

Boring !?!? Yikes. Compared to what ? Do you tour with AC/DC or something? And one more thing, what do people mean by overproduced' ? Is there even such an animal ? What next, you don't like The Spice Girls ?

Subject: RE: Review: Celtic Woman
From: skarpi
Date: 05 Apr 07 - 05:36 PM

Jim lad , I see the sun all year around where I live :>)
All the best Skarpi Iceland.

Subject: RE: Review: Celtic Woman
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 05 Apr 07 - 05:38 PM

There's a Topic recording called "Celtic Women". Makes an innaresting comparison. I thought that the overall effect was something like an Easter show at Radio City Music Hall. And the dancing fiddler--who sounded jes' fine, BTW--was funny as hell.

Subject: RE: Review: Celtic Woman
From: GUEST,DonMeixner
Date: 05 Apr 07 - 05:52 PM

I have watched both productions as shown here in Central New York. I have watched them twice in fact. I even own both CDs. The result of well meaning relatives who are sure I must like all things Irish because I play in an Irish(Not Celtic) band.

I could tolerate this packaged production more if just one of the women were at least homely. Or if there was just one alto.

I am reminded too much of Milli Vanilli and I long for the record to skip.

I think the Pogues have done as big a disservice to Irish music in The US. Now every bar we go thinks you have to play well and sing poorly or you aren't authentic. But the writing is interesting at least.

But you know what? I don't see with my ears. I'll put on The Pogues and listen to The Sick Bed and watch the Celtic Babes with the sound off. Eye candy and some audio substance, Can't beat it.

Don

Subject: RE: Review: Celtic Woman
From: Stringsinger
Date: 05 Apr 07 - 05:56 PM

I was wondering how long it would take the folk snobs to start trashing CW.

Maybe it's because CW really know how to sing, have real musical value and are popular.

As to Irish music representatives, just plug in any country in the world, let's start with America and say only (fill-in-the_blank) is the real representative of American music.
How ridiculous is that?

Why is it that only if you sing through your nose or the back of your throat, scratch out music that sounds like a worn-out 78 phonograph record, and look like a derelict from a local bar that you are suddenly "honest"? Makes no sense to me. I call that folk-hype. (Kat, I don't think that's what you meant so this doesn't refer to you).

CW is helping an audience to understand and appreciate traditional Irish music. As for the so-called practioners of Irish music, many of them are "Celtoids", not Irish at all. And the Irish, just like Americans or Scots or anybody are the biggest mutts in the world. A pure Irish music is absurd as would be the music or people of any country.

Give up the snobbery and learn to appreciate real talent for what it is, not something into which you're trying to make it.

Mairead learned fiddling from the masters, Coleman, Morrison, etc. She just happened to develop a bit of classical training along the way. If you listen carefully to her, she places ornaments at the right place and plays with a genuine lilt, something many so-called Irish "Celtoid" players don't do.

Micheal Flatley was an All-Ireland champion flute player and one of the best step-dancers in Ireland. He made the Guinness Book of Records for being the fastest tap artists, a skill that you don't find every day.

Bill Whelan and David Downes are real musicians who know how to arrange music, and have serious training behind them.

I can see how you might not prefer to listen to CW and that's ok. But to trash them is only to show your ignorance.

Frank Hamilton

Subject: RE: Review: Celtic Woman
From: GUEST,AWG
Date: 05 Apr 07 - 06:03 PM

Frank Hamilton... A man who knows what he's talking about. Nice to hear from someone who 'gets it'.

Subject: RE: Review: Celtic Woman
From: Joe Offer
Date: 05 Apr 07 - 06:57 PM

One thing has puzzled me about Celtic Woman since the group's onset - who's the woman with the crinkly hair that's depicted on the album covers? She doesn't really look like any of the performers in the groups, I think.

-Joe-

Subject: RE: Review: Celtic Woman
From: Jim Lad
Date: 05 Apr 07 - 07:00 PM

Guest meself?

Subject: RE: Review: Celtic Woman
From: terrier
Date: 05 Apr 07 - 07:01 PM

Manhattan Records' release of Celtic Woman is a compilation/collaboration between five unknown vocalists, introduced only by their first names (Chloë, Lisa, Órla, Méav, and Máiréad), who take turns chirping Irish ballads as heard through a dramatic, lush new age filter. Via reverb-heavy and thick keyboard atmospherics, the singers cover contemporary ground, such as Enya's "Orinoco Flow," to traditional melodies like "Danny Boy" and "Ave Maria." While each vocalist brings a separate lovely timbre to the table, each song shares a similar theatrical arrangement and plodding tempo that smoothes over any subtleties that might distinguish track from track, therefore fitting well sonically side by side, but leaving the listener yearning for a bit more dynamic. Overall Celtic Woman is a decent set of well-performed vocal pop, but ultimately more a soothing background soundtrack than anything memorable. ~ Gregory McIntosh, All Music Guide
             .........................
OK, if I ever want to make an album, I guess Gregory McIntosh is the guy to avoid. This piece is supposed to SELL the DVD.

Subject: RE: Review: Celtic Woman
From: GUEST,DonMeixner
Date: 05 Apr 07 - 07:12 PM

Well hell. Since I started this shouting match some time ago I will let go of it now with this last comment.
    I never once said they were not talented. I never once said they weren't excellent at what they did. I don't believe I ever said anything to diminish them as individuals.
    My complaint start to end has been the production.
    I guess now that the word is out and I am a Folk Snob I'll stand proud with my nose in the air and be snobbish! From now on it will be only Hills Brothers and not Hot Orzatas when I attend a Coffee House performance. From now on I'll only frail because I know that three finger style banjo is too recent an invention.
    I'll put away my electric tuner and grab the tuning fork until I can tune by ear alone. And yes! I'll play my Autoharp on my lap.
   And when I die, a purist to the end, take my ashes and throw them on the Library of Congess.

Don "The Folk Nazi" Meixner

Subject: RE: Review: Celtic Woman
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 06 Apr 07 - 11:58 AM

Frank-
Did you prefer the earlier Weavers recordings with Gordon Jenkins helping provide a more "acceptable" sound?

Subject: RE: Review: Celtic Woman
From: AWG
Date: 06 Apr 07 - 12:32 PM

Hello Don. Are you really a snob? Probably not, but maybe you just dont fully understand the concept of being 'entertained'. That's okay. You're not alone (judging from some of the posts on this thread, and others regarding Celtic Woman). Maybe youre an older fella, raised before the elecric guitar. I dont know. What I do know is that CW is all about entertaining people, and possibly introducing a few people to celtic music for the first time. Maybe from there they go on to check out other more 'traditional' Irish performers. (thats a good thing, right ?) So what if CW adds lots of lights and a choir ? And you gotta love the costumes !!

Subject: RE: Review: Celtic Woman
From: Alba
Date: 06 Apr 07 - 12:45 PM

I watched some of this show last week.
All I could think was....

It takes balls to do what these lassies are doing. It was the best laugh I have had in a while...honestly! The bit with the two bodhran players was priceless.....I found myself LOL

Best to all as always,
Jude ;>)

Subject: RE: Review: Celtic Woman
From: Big Mick
Date: 06 Apr 07 - 12:57 PM

Two points for AWG. Glad you are here, and welcome. If you take a bit of time and examine some of the old threads you will find that injecting emotion is not something Mudcat is short of.

Also, for AWG, Frank Hamilton IS a good man. And you should Google his name so you realize who he is.

For all of the rest ...... listen to Frank. He has hit it on the head.   Irish music is not a museum piece. This whole idea of "traditional" is a load of bollox. The only thing that is constant and traditional in Irish music is that it will adapt to the times. It's relevance across hundreds of years probably has more to do with the production values of the times than anything else.

They look good, they sound fantastic, they bring honor to the tradition. Undo your collars, loosen your belts, ...... and revel in it.

Le gach dea-mhéin,      

Mick

Subject: RE: Review: Celtic Woman
From: artbrooks
Date: 06 Apr 07 - 12:58 PM

AWG, are you a paid flack, or do you simply think that others aren't entitled to their own opinions of a reasonably decent group that you obviously enjoy watching and listeningto?

Subject: RE: Review: Celtic Woman
From: AWG
Date: 06 Apr 07 - 01:16 PM

Please artbrooks, lighten up. It's Easter. Have some chocolate! P.S. Maybe I should get ahold of CW to see about getting paid. LOL

Subject: RE: Review: Celtic Woman
From: Amergin
Date: 06 Apr 07 - 07:49 PM

Excuse the fuck out of me for having an opinion of my own. I am not all for traditional.....I love Irish and Scottish music when infused with rock....hence my comment about Flogging Molly....I just find these girls boring...excuse me for not being entertained by some girl who likes to show how many minutes she can hold a note...or show off her vocal range. I do not find it entertaining...but very grating.

Btw, I do not listen to AC/DC...I find their music just as boring.

Now please excuse my bad temper. I am feeling a bit crook due to contaminated air at work....

Subject: RE: Review: Celtic Woman
From: AWG
Date: 06 Apr 07 - 08:26 PM

You're not allowed to use fowl language, there, Amergin. Flogging Molly who ????

Subject: RE: Review: Celtic Woman
From: michaelr
Date: 06 Apr 07 - 09:07 PM

Mick, would you please elaborate on your statement that "This whole idea of "traditional" is a load of bollox"? I'm not looking for an argument here; I just don't understand which idea of trad you're referring to, and why you think it's bollox.

Many on this forum are knowledgeable about Irish music, and I believe I know a fair bit, having studied and played it for some 20 years. It should be possible to have a discussion that attempts to draw distinctions between, say, Michael Coleman and Enya, or between The Chieftains and The Pogues, and to define these distinctions in terms of which of these musicians (all Irish) are more traditional (once we've defined what that means).

It's been said about art and pornography that "I can't define it, but I know it when I see it". But in the case of art, specifically music, it should be possible to make measurement of its quality and merit. It can't all just be about "whatever you like", can it?

Cheers,
Michael

Subject: RE: Review: Celtic Woman
From: AWG
Date: 06 Apr 07 - 09:29 PM

I agree with Mick, it is bollox, (that's bad, isnt't it ??)

Subject: RE: Review: Celtic Woman
From: michaelr
Date: 07 Apr 07 - 12:17 AM

It's bad only if you agree without knowing what he means. Do you know what he means?

Subject: RE: Review: Celtic Woman
From: katlaughing
Date: 07 Apr 07 - 12:39 AM

I wouldn't invite them to a ceilidh.

Don, proud ta know ya!

Subject: RE: Review: Celtic Woman
From: AWG
Date: 07 Apr 07 - 09:23 AM

Michaelr, if I said your statements were bollox, that would be good, right ?? Someone help me out here.

Subject: RE: Review: Celtic Woman
From: artbrooks
Date: 07 Apr 07 - 09:44 AM

AWG, "bollox" is British for "balls"

Subject: RE: Review: Celtic Woman
From: AWG
Date: 07 Apr 07 - 09:51 AM

So as Big Mick says, the idea of 'traditional' music is a load of balls ?? Hmmmm...strange, but I know what he means. Same as Bulls*it !! In that case, I couldn't agree more.

Subject: RE: Review: Celtic Woman
From: Alba
Date: 07 Apr 07 - 11:13 AM

"So as Big Mick says, the idea of 'traditional' music is a load of balls ?? Hmmmm...strange, but I know what he means. Same as Bulls*it !! In that case, I couldn't agree more"

...by that I see that is why you hold the Celtic Posers Farce as an example of FINE Irish, Scottish, Welsh, Breton Music...

Ah well Jaysus us Trads should just pack it in. Why bother to preserve our Music Heritage and show how versatile it is.
Slap a few Frocks on a couple of Lassies with simliar voices, build a tacky Stage set, add a few "expected begorra" touches... viola... you have it..sh*te.

Sorry BM have to disagree with you. The lassies can sing but you know there are so many drop dead lovely lassies that sing a hellava lot better than these sterile dolls in this show. In many a session in Ireland and other Celtic Lands today there are amazing young Trad players and Singers belting their lungs out today without the aid of props or frocks and plywood castle bricks that could blow these wannabe Divas off the stage.

You know the tickets for this farce cost $350 for two seats.
Better off saving your money and taking a trip to hear the REAL thing.
Still it would be a sad old planet if we all liked the very same things.
I truly think the show borders on comedy...seriously, I do and it is Musically... mediocre.
I also believe however that if this kind thing is your kind of thing, like Lord of Prance ect..then..Good luck to you.

Again, best to all as always.
Slainte
Jude...(have a good weekened all!)

Subject: RE: Review: Celtic Woman
From: AWG
Date: 07 Apr 07 - 11:33 AM

To quote Alba...
   'Sorry BM have to disagree with you. The lassies can sing but you know there are so many drop dead lovely lassies that sing a hellava lot better than these sterile dolls in this show. In many a session in Ireland and other Celtic Lands today there are amazing young Trad players and Singers belting their lungs out today without the aid of props or frocks and plywood castle bricks that could blow these wannabe Divas off the stage.'                                                                                                                                             ...... Name ONE. I doubt they really exist!!

Subject: RE: Review: Celtic Woman
From: AWG
Date: 07 Apr 07 - 11:45 AM

Sorry about the crappy editing, but you get the point. If there were any better talent in Ireland, then THEY would be touring with CW, wouldn't they ?...... Well, wouldnt't they ??

Subject: RE: Review: Celtic Woman
From: artbrooks
Date: 07 Apr 07 - 11:58 AM

AWG, it seems that you are being unnecessarily rude. Your favorite group, as a bevy, are cute, but there are many other Irish musicians who are as pretty or prettier, as if that were a criteria for enjoying how they sound. Just for one example, you might check out Cathie Ryan.

Subject: RE: Review: Celtic Woman
From: Big Mick
Date: 07 Apr 07 - 12:08 PM

Let's clear the air hear. And I will start with AWG....

Please don't mistake my comment as supporting your incessant, prattling on. This place is populated with performers, many with a lot of years of experience behind them. It is not a fan site per se. Many of us are fans of various performers, but it isn't what the site is about. I hope you are learning that this sophomoric rave about some group you like is very grating on folks. It's good enough to say you enjoy them, as well as the reasons for that. Then let the conversation develop. Learn to do that and you will be a good, long term, Mudcatter. Keep up what you are doing, and folks will take shots at you, and you will disappear with some half ass comment about how stodgy folks are.

As to my comment above, This whole idea of "traditional" is a load of bollox, please forgive me for not being very clear. I was posting on the fly, and many times that is a mistake. Thanks, Michaelr for PM'ing me to ask for clarification. It is not the music that I consider to be a load, I make a pretty good amount of money, and derive huge personal satisfaction, out of performing this "traditional" music. What I object to is the idea that "traditional" music must be performed a certain way. I always laugh when someone sitting in a session with a guitar tries to lecture someone else about "traditional" instrumentation. Or when you see someone playing an "Irish Bouzouki" telling others about traditional instrumentation. (the "Irish Bouzouki" as an instrument in Irish/Scottish music is probably only about 45 years old) If you go and listen to "traditional" Irish music from various time periods, it is always played with the instruments of the day. Banjo's are a 20th century addition, as are guitars, bouzouki's, and probably bodhrans.

What is traditional is the elements of the music. I always chuckle when I am watching some "Irish/Scottish/Celtic rock" band and they are playing rock and roll rhythms. One of the hallmarks of the celtic (I hate this term, which celtic are we talking about?) music is the way we play the rhythms. By the way, rhythm instruments are a fairly recent addition to our music, historically speaking. Another hallmark is the use of the old tunes in the arrangement. If you have my band's CD (Over the Waterfall, Conklin Ceili Band) you will see an example of this on several of our cuts. By the way, I enjoy Irish rock, done right.

My point in all this is that while I don't like homogenizing the music, I certainly don't understand those that object to a group of very talented young women taking the music of their people and performing it with joy and love. As to the "holding the note" comment, what the hell is the matter with that? These are performers,and we all do things to demonstrate our talents. That is why we perform.

It is enough to say one doesn't care for their style. Fair enough. But don't sit here and tell me that these marvelous (and beautiful) young women are betraying the tradition. In fact, they are living it.

Le gach dea-mhéin,      

Mick

Subject: RE: Review: Celtic Woman
From: AWG
Date: 07 Apr 07 - 12:25 PM

To Art, didnt mean to appear 'rude', although you may be getting a tad melodramatic about it. I was only responding to Alba who called them a farce, among other things. Who's being rude? (maybe read the post by Alba, for starters). And the comment about no better talent in Ireland, most people can see that was meant to evoke a response, which it did with spades.          And to Mick, why jump down my throat ?? This is a thread about Celtic Woman, isn't it?? If you dont like it, stay away. Look who's 'prattling on', first you attack me for defending CW, then you defend them yourself. You even called them 'marvelous', and 'beautiful'. Make up your mind, please. If you can be more consistent, that would be great ! Thank you for listening..... Number 1 CW Fan signing off.

Subject: RE: Review: Celtic Woman
From: AWG
Date: 07 Apr 07 - 12:33 PM

Hello Art, just to show I havent got 'tunnel vision' when it comes to CW, I did check out your link to Cathie Ryan. No doubt she is very beautiful. Im sure there are many like her. Maybe somebody will put her with 4 others like her (I assume she can sing), and then there will be another 'Celtic Woman' for people to bash.

Subject: RE: Review: Celtic Woman
From: jacqui.c
Date: 07 Apr 07 - 12:47 PM

Maybe somebody will put her with 4 others like her

Why would they want to do that? She seems to do pretty well without the glam.

Subject: RE: Review: Celtic Woman
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 07 Apr 07 - 12:48 PM

Visions of poor deceased Phil Ochs in a gold lame suit are what springs to my mind when I see this commercialisation of Plastic Paddy proportions.
They are selling SEX, not music, not talent, just sex.
Have you heard of the casting couch AWG? Well it's not restricted to Hollywood, and although I am not levelling that accusation at theses particular ladies, I sometimes wonder when I see some of the talentless females with bodies to die for, what they had to do to get their particular lack of talent on TV!
Giok

Subject: RE: Review: Celtic Woman
From: Jeri
Date: 07 Apr 07 - 12:58 PM

Much ado about a 'mostly harmless' group of singers. Makes one think it's an awful troll-like thing, doesn't it? Of course, AWG is now switching over to American politics (it was only a matter of time), and there's a decidedly inconsistent insertion of grammar and spelling errors...

Anyway, mostly harmless, but definitely not worth this level of trollishness.

Subject: RE: Review: Celtic Woman
From: Peace
Date: 07 Apr 07 - 01:00 PM

CW is a sorry second to the Dixie Chicks. IMO.

Subject: RE: Review: Celtic Woman
From: AWG
Date: 07 Apr 07 - 01:01 PM

Although the ladies of CW are visually pleasing, it is strictly their TALENT that got them where they are. There would be no CW without the talent. They each worked with David Downes and had solo albums (quite successful ones) before he got them together for the Helix show in 2004. The whole point of CW is to showcase the talent. Of course it helps to have beauty, I mean, they ARE trying to sell DVD's and tickets to their shows. Anyhow, if the Irish 'traditionalists' don't approve, why are they all the rage in Ireland ?? One more thing Giok, Im not sure if you have watched the CW DVD, but although the women are beautiful (IMO), I may hesitate to describe them as having 'bodies to die for' (to quote you). They are just pretty ladies who can sing their butts off, and then CW management throws a little 'production value' into the mix....and voila ! Youve got a hit !

Subject: RE: Review: Celtic Woman
From: AWG
Date: 07 Apr 07 - 01:06 PM

Come on now Jeri, go easy on the new guy. I've seen few posts thus far containing no grammar or spelling errorz. Maybe you dont understand the post ?

Subject: RE: Review: Celtic Woman
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 07 Apr 07 - 01:12 PM

Read my post again AWG, I did not describe them as having bodies to die for.
G

Subject: RE: Review: Celtic Woman
From: AWG
Date: 07 Apr 07 - 01:13 PM

Hey Peace, why jump on me over in the 'poverty' thread? That hurts. Expecially after how I defend your ridiculous comparison between the Dixie Chicks, and CW. I tell people, 'Peace isnt that bad, he's just a little confused'. Boy, talk about un-grateful. P.S. American Politics ? Hmmmmm......

Subject: RE: Review: Celtic Woman
From: AWG
Date: 07 Apr 07 - 01:28 PM

Stop back-peddling Giok. :) Anyhow, we get the point. I figure this thread has pretty near outlived itsself.

Subject: RE: Review: Celtic Woman
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 07 Apr 07 - 01:37 PM

"Have you heard of the casting couch AWG? Well it's not restricted to Hollywood, and although I am not levelling that accusation at theses particular ladies, I sometimes wonder when I see 'some of the talentless females with bodies to die for', what they had to do to get their particular lack of talent on TV!"


Reread it and weep AWGie baby.
Somehow I don't think that in Mudcat you have found your natural home!
G.

Subject: RE: Review: Celtic Woman
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 07 Apr 07 - 01:54 PM

Are they talented and attractive? Yes! Is it a legitimate presentation of Celtic Traditional music? Yes! Does it get my foot tapping and my heart thumping like a four-piece Irish group in a Pub? No!
Those who said the production is reminiscent of Riverdance and Cirque de Solieil had it right. Celtic Woman is in essence a "show", based on what you can see on You Tube.

Subject: RE: Review: Celtic Woman
From: katlaughing
Date: 07 Apr 07 - 01:58 PM

Everyone figured out yet that AWG is not so "new" and is taking the piss?

Our own Alba can sing circles around the young glams being discussed.

Subject: RE: Review: Celtic Woman
From: Jim Lad
Date: 07 Apr 07 - 02:08 PM

Comparisons between "Celtic Woman" and "The Dixie Chicks" are fairly pointless. One is a concert series, backed by promoters and probably co-ordinated by a huge production staff & the other is a group of "Free Thinkers" who have proven, especially in recent years, that they are their own drivers.
Regardless of the fact that both shows are extremely well produced and absolutely saturated with talent, they are dissimilar in so many ways.
I scanned through one of Big Mick's submissions, further up, and find myself in the most awkward position of actually agreeing with him. Hmmm!
Keep it up Mick and I might take your name off the list.
Now; Alison Krauss! No flash, no fan fair, just raw perfection.
That's Folk!

Subject: RE: Review: Celtic Woman
From: Jim Lad
Date: 07 Apr 07 - 02:11 PM

Kat: I thought about that last night & went checking. I don't go down to the BS threads any more but I couldn't find anyone with the same language skills up here.

Subject: RE: Review: Celtic Woman
From: Peace
Date: 07 Apr 07 - 02:12 PM

AWG: I didn't jump all over you in the poverty thread. I simply said that your defense of Dickey was bullshit. That ain't jumpin' all over you.

My remark about the DCs was to bug you. I happen to agree that comparisons of groups or people is pretty pointless. One likes what one likes. And that's usually that.

Subject: RE: Review: Celtic Woman
From: katlaughing
Date: 07 Apr 07 - 02:16 PM

Not sure what you mean, Jim. Just remember, ya read it here, first.**bg**

Oh, and Alison Krause? Okay when she only plays. Can't stand it when she sings! And, I saw her in person when she was first starting out. She didn't sing then.:-)

Subject: RE: Review: Celtic Woman
From: Jim Lad
Date: 07 Apr 07 - 02:22 PM

I was reffering to ... that AWG is not so "new"
As for the other... might just have to ask Oggy to start an "Alison Krauss" thread then.

Subject: RE: Review: Celtic Woman
From: GUEST,Stinking parasite
Date: 07 Apr 07 - 02:40 PM

So that'll be the Mairead Nesbitt who only got her chance via Donal Lunny's bed then?

Subject: RE: Review: Celtic Woman
From: Jim Lad
Date: 07 Apr 07 - 03:00 PM

"Stinking parasite" Come on Bud!

Subject: RE: Review: Celtic Woman
From: Big Mick
Date: 07 Apr 07 - 03:15 PM

Jim ...... what do I care if I am on a list? I simply state my opinion based on what I see. The fact that I have been around since late '97 only means one thing in this discussion. And that is that if you keep up good posts, you may get off my list!!!! LOL.

Mick

Subject: RE: Review: Celtic Woman
From: Big Mick
Date: 07 Apr 07 - 03:34 PM

AWG, you prove yourself to be self centered, and apparently don't read for comprehension very well. I never attacked you for defending them. Nor do I consider what you do as defending them. It seems to me you missed the entire point of the first para of my post. Your style is taking away from your stated objective. You have turned me off, and I would bet most of the others. I may not have put perfume and flowers on it, but I gave you a recipe that would keep you out of the cross hairs. I hope you take it, I doubt you will.

Mick, out of this thread.

Subject: RE: Review: Celtic Woman
From: Jim Lad
Date: 07 Apr 07 - 03:40 PM

Me too. Hope you'll spend some time on some of the other threads too, Oggy.
They're usually a fairly pleasant exchange of ideas and can be a pleasant distraction as you go about your routine.
Kind Regards
Jim

Subject: RE: Review: Celtic Woman
From: Stringsinger
Date: 07 Apr 07 - 03:40 PM

Again, the self-styled authorities of Irish music are attempting to denegrate honest talent with specious comparisons to the cheese-cake ladies of game shows. Ireland abounds with great talent and it has the kind of diversity that can allow for both the Celtic Woman, Mary Black, Micheal Coleman, Mairead Nesbitt, James Morrison, Margaret Barry, Enya, Clannad and many beautiful forms of Irish expression. To claim that any one performer personifies traditional Irish music over another is sophistry and snobbery. They are all Irish performers and damn good at what they do, that's why we are here talking about them.

The idea of the insinuation that Mairead Nesbitt only got where she was because of Dunal Lunny in bed is stupid.

There seems to be an innate prejudice by so-called traditionalists against any group that has a high production value, pleasing to the eye and mass audiences, and the ability to sing well and make music that moves many people who are not "folkies". This is really phony.

I would like to remind these self-styled "authorities" that they are on Mudcat which means there are many of us who have studied Irish music and that they don't have all the answers, just opinions.

Here's why the CW are good. They have lovely vocal production, clear voices, musicality and a great musical director. They don't reek of the barroom either. (This cliche of the drunken Irish singer is most offensive to Irish people). They blend extremely well and although they may not have the rugged sound of a field recording, they have their own brand of energy, otherwise they would not excite their audience in the way that they do.
I have heard many Irish musicians and some tend toward being heavy-handed, grating,
and incomprehensible in singing. I have heard also Irish musicians who lilt, carry a song with grace and get the story across in an either dramatic or humorous vein. Some Irish musicians can soar with their virtuosity on instruments..Willie Clancy's pipes, the Sligo styles of Morrison, Killoran, and Coleman, the singing of McCormack and Patterson who brought the Irish tenor into a special style recognized around the world, the new crop such as Kevin Burke, Donegal's Mairead and Frankie Gavin and probably many not known in the new ranks from the Comhaltas Ceoltoiri Eireann.

My point: get off this "I-know-more-about-Irish-trad-than-you-do" and learn to appreciate the variety of talent in Irish music.

Frank Hamilton

Subject: RE: Review: Celtic Woman
From: Big Mick
Date: 07 Apr 07 - 03:43 PM

Like I always say,...........Listen to Frank.

Mick

Subject: RE: Review: Celtic Woman
From: Barry Finn
Date: 07 Apr 07 - 03:56 PM

My thoughts about CW were that they weren't bad, actually pretty good but not my cup of tea at all & didn't hold my interest very long, actually pretty short. I am waiting & hoping though that thjere performence will take on a Chiness Martial Arts flair & they'll start flitering thought the air at the rate of 200yds per bounce all the while toe tripping from tree leaf to tree leaf with bow pointing the way ahead & "A Pinch Of Snuff" be played in flying fashion in the background.

Barry

Subject: RE: Review: Celtic Woman
From: katlaughing
Date: 07 Apr 07 - 04:24 PM

Barry Finn, you just made me LMAOWROLF!! That would be a site to behold!

Jimdarlin'...please NO...just search "Alison Krause" and you will find plenty of reading material!**bg**

katouttoo

Subject: RE: Review: Celtic Woman
From: Jim Lad
Date: 07 Apr 07 - 05:04 PM

I'm not here anymore Kat but you did make me laugh!
Alison Krauss

Subject: RE: Review: Celtic Woman
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 07 Apr 07 - 06:36 PM

Frank, you never answered my question.

Subject: RE: Review: Celtic Woman
From: AWG
Date: 07 Apr 07 - 08:48 PM

Okay, I wasn't going to say anything until Kat started saying Alison Krauss couldn't sing. Thank God there's such a thing as free speech !! P.S. I AM new at this, just trying to get some emotion into these threads. I mean, look at all the postings talking about Celtic Woman... Hey Big Mick, I think you need to re-read what you wrote, I comprehend just fine. Self-centered ??? Who are you, Dr. Phil ?. Or is that Dr. Big Mick ?? Refresh my memory, please. What was my 'stated objective' again ? I thought this thread was about Celtic Woman, and the only one who stays on subject is Frank Hamilton, the rest is just rubbish. Hey Jim Lad, you say your'e gone, but you keep coming back to talk smack. See you soon ! LOL

Subject: RE: Review: Celtic Woman
From: Jim Lad
Date: 07 Apr 07 - 09:45 PM

The Oxford dictionary definition of a "Smack" is "A loud Kiss".
The Webster's, on the other hand, gives a far more acceptable meaning to a "Smack on the arse".
Now I'm really gone!
Cheers
Jim

Subject: RE: Review: Celtic Woman
From: AWG
Date: 07 Apr 07 - 09:55 PM

SURE you are Jim, SURE you are.:) P.S. Smack is slang for 'crap'. LOL

Subject: RE: Review: Celtic Woman
From: katlaughing
Date: 07 Apr 07 - 11:22 PM

Og brings new meaning to the words "thread creep."

Subject: RE: Review: Celtic Woman
From: AWG
Date: 07 Apr 07 - 11:27 PM

Hey Kat, that's not nice.

Subject: RE: Review: Celtic Woman
From: AWG
Date: 07 Apr 07 - 11:31 PM

Dum Dum.

Subject: RE: Review: Celtic Woman
From: AWG
Date: 07 Apr 07 - 11:36 PM

Subject: RE: BS: Poverty in the USA
From: pdq - PM
Date: 07 Apr 07 - 11:31 PM

Is it too late for me to welcome you, AWG? We need a few more original thinkers here at Mudcat and you seem to be a breath of fresh air. Welcome.'   Hey Kat, check out the quote on this thread.. at lease someone gets me. You are just mean.

Subject: RE: Review: Celtic Woman
From: michaelr
Date: 08 Apr 07 - 12:28 AM

the only one who stays on subject is Frank Hamilton, the rest is just rubbish.

Thanks for that well-thought out criticism, AWG. You've worn out your welcome already, I'd say.

AWG = Another Wanker Guest.

Subject: RE: Review: Celtic Woman
From: AWG
Date: 08 Apr 07 - 01:02 AM

Hey michaelr, what's wrong, truth hurt ?? Bye the way, why do you keep 'popping out of the woodwork' with NOTHING to say ?? Looks like you cant find anything to watch on TV. What, no cartoons ?

Subject: RE: Review: Celtic Woman
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 08 Apr 07 - 01:11 PM

As for me, a guy who's been lurking in these parts and feeling mostly like a Folk Dilletante what with my prediliction for music like Merle Haggard, Son Volt, the Byrds, and Ryan Adams, I am basking in the glow of being lumped in with those in this thread being referred to as "folk purists"!!!
Ah...all things come to those who wait. Now, where's my sackbut?

Subject: RE: Review: Celtic Woman
From: catspaw49
Date: 08 Apr 07 - 01:14 PM

Soory Leej.....Ya' gotta' make one out of a Ale8One bottle. I have several myself but I still live where one can occasionally acquire the stuff.......................

Spaw

Subject: RE: Review: Celtic Woman
From: Stringsinger
Date: 08 Apr 07 - 01:35 PM

Dick G., I'm sorry not to have responded to your question. My apology.

My feeling about the Weavers with Gordon Jenkin's arrangements is this, it was a different style of presentation. Gordon Jenkins was a fine tasteful arranger. At the time the Weavers were highly popular and I was grateful for this. Their presentation was in a pop style that I believe gave the popular music of the day a real boost. I loved it. I was in high school at the time and when I heard them on the radio I said to myself, "I'd like to be in a group like that."

Later, when they did their first famous Carnegie Hall recording, it was like listening to a different group. I loved that too but in a different way. It was exciting, fun, meaningful and again inspiring. It was not a pop record but a new kind of concert format that influenced everyone from the Kingston Trio to avid folk music collectors.

I also felt that it was a different group with Erik Darling who contributed a whole new feel adding his musical personality. I loved those recordings and enjoyed seeing them live with Erik playing his dynamic banjo.

I feel that way today when I hear my old student Roger McGuinn with the Byrds in a great pop format and hear him solo in his "Live From Mars" album. Two different ways of presenting a great talent with an innovative 12 string guitar style.

There has to be room for everything and an appreciation for different music formats. The pop style has to be different than the field recordings or the interpretations by revivalist folkies. They are all valuable and need to be listened to and evaluated in different ways.
Frankly, if they're good, I love 'em all.

Frank Hamilton

Subject: RE: Review: Celtic Woman
From: GUEST,DonMeixner
Date: 08 Apr 07 - 02:21 PM

One of the beautiful things we can do with computers and mass storage devices and CD burners is to make comparisons. Recently I loaded the same songs by The Kingston Trio and The Chad Mitchell Trio and recorded them after each other.
    The Chad Mitchell Trio certainly has more polish and a better sense of harmony than the KT. The KT had a flare that the CMT didn't. Then comparisons of similar songs with the Limeliters showed a different, maybe more sophisticated flavor. All of them good in their way and all of them worth hearing.
    I have had the chance to hear these groups live except for TCMT and the memory of those shows is still vibrant over time. Nothing can beat a live performance done by good performers.
    Frank is 100% correct there is room for all styles and genres.

Don

Subject: RE: Review: Celtic Woman
From: GUEST,Doodlebug
Date: 08 Apr 07 - 02:28 PM

Yet another Mudcat thread that reveals that the majority of US posters know less than not a lot about Irish music!

Frank Hamilton - come on out of the 1980s and get a life.

Subject: RE: Review: Celtic Woman
From: AWG
Date: 08 Apr 07 - 02:37 PM

Careful Doodlebug, this 'free to speak your mind' attitude of yours won't go too well here. However, Frank is a good guy (even if he does think Mick Jagger is something more than 'mediocre')

Subject: RE: Review: Celtic Woman
From: mg
Date: 08 Apr 07 - 02:52 PM

I haven't read the whole thread..even enough to know if I have commented before..but I am not crazy about them...they are pretty and talented but something is not there...it's like they have filters in their voices to let out mostly air and not all the sound...which was a problem with some Irish women singers since they all seemed to simultaneously sound like they were recording in an old abbey in whispers. ...that is what they are doing...musically whispering..come on girls..belt it out....mg

Subject: RE: Review: Celtic Woman
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 08 Apr 07 - 03:01 PM

I blame Enya for that mg.
G.

Subject: RE: Review: Celtic Woman
From: AWG
Date: 08 Apr 07 - 03:12 PM

Please listen to Lisa Kelly sing 'the voice', and then you will re-consider, mg.

Subject: RE: Review: Celtic Woman
From: Jim Lad
Date: 08 Apr 07 - 05:04 PM

mg: We're agreeing on something!
Wow!

Cheers
Jim

Subject: RE: Review: Celtic Woman
From: Stringsinger
Date: 08 Apr 07 - 07:26 PM

There's too much belting and yelling, scratchy vocal fries, mumbling diction and pseudo-earthiness being foisted as "folk" these days. The CW can really sing without having to knock someone over the head. People today have been bludgeoned by rock, blasting PA's, and the view that unless you are "blowing someone away" it can't be any good.

What about music that's soothing, contemplative, vocally pleasing to listen to, musical in the sense that it's not shouting, screeching or sounding like a fingernail on the blackboard?

Has the artistic pallette been so deadened that unless you scream it out, or push it across, it can't be successfully heard?

The phony burbling of white kids trying to sound black, the whining and hoarse croaking of today's Country (rock influenced) Nashville or some bluegrass gymnastics, and the monotones of the neo-protest singers with their "profundity" make a artistically distasteful stew.

CW are pleasing to hear, melodic, well-produced and musically arranged and have filled-in the empty space that lacks musicality in today's popular music world.

I'm so glad that they don't resort to belting and shouting.

Frank Hamilton

Subject: RE: Review: Celtic Woman
From: John O'L
Date: 08 Apr 07 - 07:46 PM

Pussycat Dolls on Guinness (The made-locally-under-license stuff)

Subject: RE: Review: Celtic Woman
From: michaelr
Date: 08 Apr 07 - 11:56 PM

Frank, Frank, Frank --

you insist on creating a false dichotomy. It's not about "nice-sounding" vs. "belting" or "scratchy". You want vocally pleasing? So do I. Check out Eddi Reader or Muireann Nic Amblaoigh or Roisin Elsafty or a number of other female singers I could name working now in the traditional field. They have wonderful voices and loads of talent (as well as pleasant faces).

The difference is that these ladies aren't letting themselves be homogenized by the mass-appeal blender of glitzy TV production. They choose to stay closer to the trad music sound, thereby preserving a certain authenticity and continuity in relation to the tradition.

There really is a difference, and it's a difference of quality. One does not have to be a snob to perceive the difference.

Cheers,
Michael

Subject: RE: Review: Celtic Woman
From: AWG
Date: 09 Apr 07 - 09:42 AM

I agree with Frank. To quote him... 'CW are pleasing to hear, melodic, well-produced and musically arranged and have filled-in the empty space that lacks musicality in today's popular music world.' That about says it all.

Subject: RE: Review: Celtic Woman
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 09 Apr 07 - 01:06 PM

All they need is The Mighty Wurlitzer.

Subject: RE: Review: Celtic Woman
From: Mrs.Duck
Date: 09 Apr 07 - 05:32 PM

Is there a link that I can get to hear these women - I have never heard of them until now so would like to make a judgement for myself?

Subject: RE: Review: Celtic Woman
From: AWG
Date: 09 Apr 07 - 05:49 PM

Mrs.Duck, you can go to WWW.CelticWoman.com for more information. I will try to get a link to where you can hear them, I just have to figure out how to put a link here, without having to type it all in. Still learning......

Subject: RE: Review: Celtic Woman
From: Mrs.Duck
Date: 09 Apr 07 - 06:00 PM

Sound clips here
Will give them a listen.

Subject: RE: Review: Celtic Woman
From: AWG
Date: 09 Apr 07 - 06:04 PM

Hey, Mrs.Duck, you can just go to Youtube.com and type in Celtic Woman to get a complete list of videos. Enjoy !

Subject: RE: Review: Celtic Woman
From: Mrs.Duck
Date: 09 Apr 07 - 06:29 PM

Well I've had a listen and frankly am not impressed. Very unfolky type voices and all sound the same. One of the girls, Hayley had an album out before Christmas that was flogged to death on the UK TV - didn't put the two together as she is from New Zealand! Glad you enjoy them AWG but definitely not on my shopping list.

Subject: RE: Review: Celtic Woman
From: Tootler
Date: 09 Apr 07 - 06:44 PM

I agree with Mrs Duck.

The girls have good voices and, judging from the website impeccable CV's.

BUT

Their singing is bland and lacks passion. I listened to "She moved through the fair" and the obvious comparison is with Margaret Barry. Her voice may not be pretty like these girls and the recording has more than a few rough edges, but does she put some feeling into the song. The fiddler was technically accomplished but again there was no feeling. I did not feel I could dance to this.

Overall I can see that they will appeal to a certain audience, but they are a product of the music industry packaged to appeal to a mass audience. Good luck to them, but it will be interesting to hear them in 10 years time if I am about then to hear whether they have matured enough to sing with more feeling and to take control of their own musical destinies.

Subject: RE: Review: Celtic Woman
From: AWG
Date: 09 Apr 07 - 06:58 PM

'Overall I can see that they will appeal to a certain audience, but they are a product of the music industry packaged to appeal to a mass audience......' That's exactly right, thus the mass appeal. They are the product of smart marketing, too. But noone can blame them for wanting to be famous, and in 10 years Im sure they will be writing their own tickets.

Subject: RE: Review: Celtic Woman
From: John O'L
Date: 09 Apr 07 - 08:54 PM

Hey, hey, we are The Monkees,
You know we love to please,
A manufactured image
With no philosophies.

Hey, hey, we are the Monkees,
We've said it all before,
The money's in, we're made of tin,
We're here to give you more

Subject: RE: Review: Celtic Woman
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 09 Apr 07 - 10:09 PM

AWG-
I don't think anyone's blaming them for anything. They're certainly pretty and certainly have nice voices. I wish them well, and I hope they make lots of money. Not from me, though. I think the music is quite capable of standing by itself without the sugar coating.
    There used to be a thing about "folk music for people who don't like folk music". Glad to say I'm not of that number.

Subject: RE: Review: Celtic Woman
From: Phil Cooper
Date: 09 Apr 07 - 11:38 PM

They sound fine, but don't pass the armhair test. I was thinkng when Carrickfergus was played that it didn't have the impact it had when I first heard Bobby Eagalsham and Dick Gaughan sing it when Five Hand Reel did it.

Subject: RE: Review: Celtic Woman
From: GUEST,js1701
Date: 12 Apr 07 - 03:07 PM

As Frank was saying, "What do you think is Irish music?" Is it only traditional acoustic folk music played by stereotypical barflies? Is U2 not Irish? Is Enya or Clannad not Irish? Irish music is whatever a person from Ireland plays or sings - be it speed metal or elevator music.

I DO believe Celtic Woman is poorly named. Not because it's inacurate (apart from Westenra, they're all Irish) but because it sets up all this arguing by implying some sort of Gaelic showcase (although they do a great deal of Gaelic numbers, and well). But the equal mix with show tunes and current adult contemporary hits cuts against that expectation. If they were called "Embarrassingly Talented Beautiful Irish Women", this thread wouldn't even exist.

Subject: RE: Review: Celtic Woman
From: Jim Lad
Date: 12 Apr 07 - 03:24 PM

Watch some daft bugger, start up a thread now.

Subject: RE: Review: Celtic Woman
From: AWG
Date: 12 Apr 07 - 04:39 PM

Is that a request?....... :)

Subject: RE: Review: Celtic Woman
From: Jean(eanjay)
Date: 12 Apr 07 - 04:41 PM

Nice one :-)

Subject: RE: Review: Celtic Woman
From: Jim Lad
Date: 12 Apr 07 - 04:43 PM

Subject: RE: Review: Celtic Woman
From: AWG
Date: 12 Apr 07 - 04:44 PM

Just kidding...