Lyr ADD: When the Old Man Came Home Sober

Subject: Lyr Req: When the Old Man Came Home Sober
From: GUEST,Keith McKenry
Date: 13 Apr 07 - 03:46 AM

I am trying to locate the lyrics and music for a song titled "When the Old Man Came Home Sober for the First Time in His Life" I have found only the following fragment of the song.

The cat flew up the chimney,
The doggie tore about,
He jumped inside the cradle
And turned the baby out.
The servant sought protection behind the carving knife
When the old man came home sober
For the first time in his life.

Can anyone help me?

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: When the Old Man Came Home Sober
From:
Date: 13 Apr 07 - 10:41 AM

Looks like it's from Britain.

After the speeches, the miners and their families held a picnic. Later, as they marched to bus and train for home, stopping at pubs on the way, they sang Beer Barrel Polka and such favorites as Two Lovely Black Eyes and Mother Sought Protection Behind the Carving Knife When the Old Man Came Home Sober for the First Time in His Life.

This came from a Time article

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: When the Old Man Came Home Sober
From:
Date: 13 Apr 07 - 11:23 AM

Looks like the snippet you found comes up in Australia at the Folk Alliance from 2005. There are heaps of other "Lyr Req:" in the making there.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: When the Old Man Came Home Sober
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 14 Apr 07 - 09:36 AM

The only thing I find, other that links to the totally phony snippet published in "Dear Abby" several years ago, is a "request for" on ebay:

ebay request for…
[Description
I want to find this song, sometimes also known as "Mother Sought Protection Behind the Carving Knife When the Old Man Came Home Sober for the First Time in His Life." I am happy to purchase the sheet music, or any publication containing the piece I am after, which is for my research.
Responses
There are no responses to this post.]

Apparently they couldn't find it either.

The "extended title" may be some help?

Sounds like a great song.

John

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: When the Old Man Came Home Sober
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 14 Apr 07 - 02:23 PM

Kilgarriff, Sing Us One of the Old Songs (1998), lists a 'When the Old Man Came Home Sober' as written by John Cooke Jnr (c.1860-1900). No other reference.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: When the Old Man Came Home Sober
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 14 Apr 07 - 06:57 PM

At A 236th GARLAND OF BRITISH LIGHT MUSIC COMPOSERS find:

"Another ballad composer from the inter-war period was John Cooke, jnr. Popular titles included Why Should London Wait? and Very Quickly."

If he is in fact the composer, perhaps finding other of his songs would lead to a place where this one is hidden, or at least to someone who was interested enough to save some, and might know others?

John

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: When the Old Man Came Home Sober
From: CeltArctic
Date: 14 Apr 07 - 07:21 PM

The snippet of lyrics you provided us, Kieth, sound maddenly familiar. I've done some searches myself and only come up with the EBAY listing (mentioned above). I'm reaching out to friends to see if they can help.

Where did you hear this - can you recall? Was it on the radio or something?

Moira

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: When the Old Man Came Home Sober
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 14 Apr 07 - 10:31 PM

The 'inter-war' John Cooke jnr would have to be a different man; the one I mentioned died in 1900, and 'inter-war' means (in this context) between 1918 and 1939.

For what it's worth, Kilgarriff lists the following songs from him:

Angels Are Hovering Around (words, J S Evalo) 1889
Below! Below!! Below!!! (words, George Horncastle)
Funny Things They Do Upon The Sly (with G W Hunter)
I Want To Meet A Good Young Man (1885)
Married Life (music, G W Hunter)
Millie's Cigar Divan (1885)
So It Was! (words, Horncastle)
What A Blessing (1885)
When The Old Man Came Home Sober

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: When the Old Man Came Home Sober
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 14 Apr 07 - 10:55 PM

Title: Keep your hair on Johnny shows publication date "ca. 1882," while Title: What A Wonderful Difference It Makes shows "ca 1885," consistent with the "period of activity" indicated above.

Both of these two indicate "John Cooke, Vincent Davies," so a search for Davies, or one of the others in Malcolm's list, might show an additional collaboration. The first one indicates "W&M.," which I believe identifies a publisher.

John

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: When the Old Man Came Home Sober
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 15 Apr 07 - 09:46 AM

A longer listing of works by Cooke (though our song is not included) can be found in the Copac academic and national library catalogue:

John Cooke Junior

Since 'Why should London wait?' is there, with a tentative date of 1884, it would seem that the website John quoted earlier was in error in assigning their Cooke (evidently the same Cooke after all) to 'the inter-war period'; the context suggests that they used the term in its usual sense.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: When the Old Man Came Home Sober
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 15 Apr 07 - 10:54 AM

I was puzzled by the "inter war period" reference, but the page gave no dates for reference.

At the page with the ambiguous "inter war period" notation, there's a return to the Index for the site that might be of interest for searchers for other topics. There appears to be quite a lot of good stuff on the site, although so far as I've found nothing more about this song or composer.

Possibly worth a bookmark for those who might want to search other similar things(?)

The "garlands" in which information is presented are rather conversational and anectdotal, and while they seem to contain lots of information, it's sometimes difficult to tell whether someone is being cited as a composer or just as a performer of a piece, along with a few other ambiguities and conflicting citations. The search function at the site is also rather less effective than one might expect.

There seem to have been quite a lot of "postwarish" titles cited for the 1870s, but I can't place a war of note that would have been the beginning for an "inter war period."(?) I suppose one might write it off to "they were always fighting with someone."

John

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: When the Old Man Came Home Sober
From: GUEST
Date: 18 Apr 07 - 08:25 PM

Moira

I found the reference in a 1940 issue of the Melbourne Sun newspaper. A Sun columnist was asking readers for old songs from the pioneering and gold rush days, to assist Rev Dr Percy Jones (who was looking for Australian folk songs). The columnist published fragments of 71 submitted songs before passing them on to Jones. Sadly, the papers the journalist gave to Jones have all been destroyed. I have been trying to identify the songs from the published fragments, and then to obtain full texts and tunes for them. Thus far I have positively identified 47 of the songs. "When the Old Man Came Home Sober" is one of the song fragments.

Cheers

Keith

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: When the Old Man Came Home Sober
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 01 Feb 12 - 02:11 AM

Here is a comment by a reader printed in The [Adelaide] Advertiser of Tuesday, October 19, 1937, on page 21:

The Dog Rushed Up the Chimney
IN "Fifty Years Ago" on Saturday was a reference to a Tommy Hudson Nigger Minstrel show, saying that George Gardner sang with great success, "The Dog Rushed Up the Chimney."

Takes my mind back to times when "Tommy's" shows were most popular. If my memory is correct, the words of the refrain Gardner sang were: —

The dog rushed up the chimney.
The cat flew up the spout;
She jumped into the cradle.
But the baby kicked her out.
My mother sought protection
Behind the carving knife.
When the old man came home sober
For the first time in his life.

* * *
Quoted in Rosie Todmarsh by Adrian Alington (London, Chatto & Windus [1944]), page 19:

Oh, the dog rushed up the chimney
And the cat fell down the spout
And jumped inside the cradle
But the baby flung him out.
Oh, mother sought protection
Behind the carving knife
When the old man came home sober
For the first time in his life.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: When the Old Man Came Home Sober
From: Charley Noble
Date: 01 Feb 12 - 10:38 AM

Jim-

Well, there's still hope for a verse or two more but it seems to me that there may be only one original verse.

I'm surprised that Sigmund Spaeth didn't collect and publish it.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: When the Old Man Came Home Sober
From: GUEST,999
Date: 01 Feb 12 - 11:19 AM

Something I read said it's a chorus. I have never heard the song, nor do I know if there is one with more verses. It lends it self to brief tales spoken between the chourses. But that's speculation omp, not anything I know for fact.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: When the Old Man Came Home Sober
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 01 Feb 12 - 12:14 PM

WorldCat.org, which combines the catalogues many libraries worldwide, including the British Library, the libraries of Oxford and Cambridge, and the National Library of Australia, doesn't list it. However, it does list sheet music for these songs by the same composer: [None of them are viewable online.]

ASK ME ANOTHER
written by D.U. Twigge ; composed by John Cooke Jr. ; sung ... by Harry Rickards ; [arranged by Fred Eplett].
London : Hopwood & Crew, [1888]
First line: My wife's a curious woman, who.
First line of chorus: Ask me another.

DON'T BRETHREN DON'T
written by A.E. Martin ; composed by John Cooke Jr. ; sung by Arthur Corney ; [arranged by George Ison].
London : Hopwood & Crew, [1888]
First line: I am a moral sort of man.
First line of the chorus: And don't brethren don't.

HERE FLOATS THE FLAG
written by Hugh Moss ; composed by John Cooke Jr. ; sung by Miss Nellie L'Estrange ; [arranged by William Stewart].
London : Francis Bros. & Day, [1887]
First line: O'er every quarter of the globe.
First line of chorus: How dare they hope to tear it.

SO IT WAS!
written by Geo. Horncastle ; composed by John Cooke Jr. ; sung by G.H. Macdermott.
London : Francis Bros. & Day, [1887]
First line: I have a most confiding wife.
First line of chorus: So it was.

SO MUCH THE BETTER FOR YOU
written & composed by John Cooke Jr. ; sung by Miss Bessie Bonehill.
London : Francis Bros. & Day, [1886]
First line: To you that have plenty of money.
First line of chorus: So much the better for you.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: When the Old Man Came Home Sober
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 02 Feb 12 - 04:01 AM

I saw this performed many times at the Players Theatre. If you write to Michael Kilgarriff he may be able to point you ion the right direction to find the words of the whole song. And yes, that is the chorus.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: When the Old Man Came Home Sober
From: GUEST,999
Date: 17 Sep 12 - 04:02 PM

http://pi.library.yorku.ca/dspace/bitstream/handle/10315/14813/JAC001347.pdf?sequence=2

The lyrics for When the Old Man Came Home Sober on sheet music are at that link.

Subject: Lyr Add: WHEN THE OLD MAN CAME HOME SOBER (Cooke)
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 17 Sep 12 - 04:24 PM

WHEN THE OLD MAN CAME HOME SOBER
Words and music by John Cooke, Jun^r
London: F. Pitman Hart & Co. Ltd.

1. I'll ne'er forget one night last week,
When the old man came home sober,
I was so scar'd I couldn't speak,
When the old man came home sober.
He always used to come home tight,
And then we used to feel alright,
But oh! We were upset that night,
When the old man came home sober.

CHORUS: For the dog rush'd up the chimney; the cat rush'd up a spout.
It jump'd inside the cradle first, but the baby slung it out.
My mother sought protection behind the carving knife,
When the old man came home sober for the first time in his life.

2. The parrot gave a shriek and died
When the old man came home sober.
The canary couldn't (tho' it tried)
When the old man came home sober.
The fire died out in the grate.
The clock struck two at half past eight,
Then fell and broke its dial plate
When the old man came home sober.

3. The slavey fell down in a fit,
When the old man came home sober.
Sister Mary did a quit
When the old man came home sober.
Everyone was struck with fright
And bobbies kept well out of sight
On that most eventful night,
When the old man came home sober.

4. I've not got over that night yet,
When the old man came home sober.
Indeed I never shall forget
When the old man came home sober.
But I'm glad to tell you that next day
He sent on the booze in his usual way
And I trust he'll never go astray
And once more come home sober.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: When the Old Man Came Home Sober
From: GUEST,Steve
Date: 31 May 15 - 03:03 PM

My Dad used to sing this to me:

Oh the cat flew up the chimney, The Dog he tore about
He jumped in baby's cradle and nearly knocked him out
Oh mother sort protection behind the carving knife
When the old man came home sober for the first time in his life

You should have seen him there, a sight I do declare
Oh so frisky drunk on whiskey driving the servants spare
Oh mother sort protection behind the carving knife
When the old man came home sober for the first time in his life

Subject: RE: Lyr ADD: When the Old Man Came Home Sober
From: Joe Offer
Date: 01 Nov 21 - 05:55 PM

Joe - do cleanup

Subject: RE: Lyr ADD: When the Old Man Came Home Sober
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 03 Nov 21 - 05:09 AM

In 2008 Keith McKenry published the results of his research

Australia's Lost Folk Songs. The treasures that slipped through Percy Jones's fingers, by Keith McKenry. Rams Skull, 2008. Australian Folklore - Occasional Paper no.25.
Copies are available from Rams Skull Press & Trad & Now On-line shop

From the Archives - Burl Ives & the popularisation of Australian folk song

Subject: RE: Lyr ADD: When the Old Man Came Home Sober
From: GerryM
Date: 03 Nov 21 - 06:02 PM

Jim Lucas sang this at the Mudcat Singaround two days ago.

---

And again on 17 Oct 2022, a year later. -Joe-