BS: Virginia Tech Shooting, 20 dead?

Subject: BS: Virginia Tech Shooting, 20 dead?
From: Alice
Date: 16 Apr 07 - 12:31 PM

Horrible event starting in a dormitory and then moved to classrooms in the engineering building where a student shot at least 20.
breaking news now

Subject: RE: BS: Virginia Tech Shooting, 20 dead?
From: Alice
Date: 16 Apr 07 - 12:33 PM

20 killed, 28 injured are the first numbers being reported.
One student did the shooting, also dead now.

Subject: RE: BS: Virginia Tech Shooting, 20 dead?
From: Charley Noble
Date: 16 Apr 07 - 12:37 PM

Alice-

There may have been 20 wounded and one dead according to CNN reports that I've just seen. Your title of this thread should be changed unlss you have better sources.

Would you please contact one of the Joe Clones via the Quick Links and request that they change the thread title.

The news is alarming enough without making it seem worse.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Virginia Tech Shooting, 20 dead?
From: Charley Noble
Date: 16 Apr 07 - 12:38 PM

My apologies if you are correct.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Virginia Tech Shooting, 20 dead?
From: Alice
Date: 16 Apr 07 - 12:38 PM

NBC news reported 20 dead, 28 wounded.

Subject: RE: BS: Virginia Tech Shooting, 20 dead?
From: Alice
Date: 16 Apr 07 - 12:41 PM

A quite detailed description of how he moved across campus from the dorm to the classroom shooting was given on the NBC tv special report.
Some students tried to hold the classroom door closed with their bodies to keep him out, but he shot through the door.
Madness, when will it end.

Subject: RE: BS: Virginia Tech Shooting, 20 dead?
From: Rapparee
Date: 16 Apr 07 - 12:45 PM

They are saying 22 dead, 20 hurt now, with the shooter dead.

Subject: RE: BS: Virginia Tech Shooting, 20 dead?
From: Charley Noble
Date: 16 Apr 07 - 12:45 PM

According to ABC News and a Canadian report:

At least 1 dead, others injured in Virginia Tech shooting; suspect arrested

Canadian Press
Published: Monday, April 16, 2007


BLACKSBURG, Va. (AP) - Officials say gunfire that erupted in a dorm and classroom at Virginia Tech has killed one person and wounded 17.
A hospital spokeswoman says 17 students have been treated for gunshot wounds and other injuries. The university says police have confirmed that a suspect has been arrested.
Students have been told to stay inside and away from windows. And police were sweeping the campus and worked to establish whether the gunman acted alone.
On its web site, Virginia Tech says the shootings at opposite ends of the campus caused "multiple victims,".

All entrances to the campus were closed and classes cancelled through Tuesday.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Virginia Tech Shooting, 20 dead?
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 16 Apr 07 - 12:46 PM

When you stop allowing people to have guns... but even then, it will only slow it down. Our borough is investigating a second killing, both victims attended the same school, but they were killed 3 weeks apart.

This is terrible news, memories of Columbine and other schools are too near the surface already.

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: Virginia Tech Shooting, 20 dead?
From: Charley Noble
Date: 16 Apr 07 - 12:52 PM

Apologies appear to be in order. CNN is reporting that at least 20 students were killed. Here's a link to their story: Click here for CNN

Sorry, Alice.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Virginia Tech Shooting, 20 dead?
From: Bee
Date: 16 Apr 07 - 01:11 PM

I feel so sorry for all involved in this tragedy. I've been listening to CBC reports and it is just as bad as reported elsewhere. Local hospitals have confirmed at least 21 injured/wounded, and authorities now say 21 dead.

Subject: RE: BS: Virginia Tech Shooting, 20 dead?
From: Alice
Date: 16 Apr 07 - 01:22 PM

When you send your kids off to school, you worry about many things, and since Columbine, campus shootings are part of that worry. I know murders happened before Columbine, too, but these massive attacks just seem to keep coming. What is the solution?

Subject: RE: BS: Virginia Tech Shooting, 20 dead?
From: bobad
Date: 16 Apr 07 - 01:24 PM

"What is the solution?"

What is the cause?

Subject: RE: BS: Virginia Tech Shooting, 20 dead?
From: Alice
Date: 16 Apr 07 - 01:30 PM

Humans attack others for many reasons. A location like a campus or office building or shopping mall gives the attacker easy access to crowds of people. Horrifying.

Subject: RE: BS: Virginia Tech Shooting, 20 dead?
From: bobad
Date: 16 Apr 07 - 01:35 PM

That's the problem isn't it? Finding a solution when there are many causes. I guess one would have to look for some commonality - the one that comes to my mind is the availability of guns in America. But of course we all know that guns don't kill people, people kill people.

Subject: RE: BS: Virginia Tech Shooting, 20 dead?
From: Rapparee
Date: 16 Apr 07 - 01:45 PM

Virginia Tech is a four year college; it's more akin to the McGill killings than Columbine. Or the Texas Tower.

But I don't know any more about it than anyone else right now.

Subject: RE: BS: Virginia Tech Shooting, 20 dead?
From: Alice
Date: 16 Apr 07 - 01:46 PM

If little girls in an Amish school aren't safe, how can we predict who will be attacked. I am feeling sick for the people involved in Virginia.

Subject: RE: BS: Virginia Tech Shooting, 20 dead?
From: bobad
Date: 16 Apr 07 - 01:47 PM

You probably meant to say the Dawson College shooting in Montreal rather than McGill, Rap.

Subject: RE: BS: Virginia Tech Shooting, 20 dead?
From: Alice
Date: 16 Apr 07 - 01:54 PM

Headlines show climbing death toll. My heart goes out to all those there who are dealing with this. My first thought
when I heard the news say Virginia was that many Mudcatters are there. For anyone reading this in the future who is touched
by these killings, am so sorry for your loss.
"ABC News has confirmed that there were two separate bomb threats last week at Virginia Tech that targeted engineering buildings. The first was directed at Torgersen Hall, while the second was directed at multiple engineering buildings. Students and staff were evacuated, and the university had offered a $5,000 reward for information into the threats."

Subject: RE: BS: Virginia Tech Shooting, 20 dead?
From: Jim Lad
Date: 16 Apr 07 - 02:12 PM

My most sincere condolences to the families of those lost on this tragic day. A special prayer tonight for all of you in Virginia.
With deepest sympathy.
Jim

Subject: RE: BS: Virginia Tech Shooting, 20 dead?
From: Shaneo
Date: 16 Apr 07 - 02:15 PM

So people kill people , not guns , I have heard that statement thousand's of times ,it's a cop out probably started by some greedy gun lobby. it's this thing in the American constitution that gives civilians the right to carry guns , now that's asking for trouble.
If a man walks into a school with a gun and starts shooting , there's a good chance he will kill many before he is caught.
If a man walks into a school with a knife and starts knifing the kids there's a much better chance of getting the knife away from him before he kills many.
How many children must die before the law is changed to stop civilians carrying guns.

Subject: RE: BS: Virginia Tech Shooting, 20 dead?
From: Alice
Date: 16 Apr 07 - 02:31 PM

To have bomb threats to the engineering building last week and now this shooting, there are reports of an off campus incident that may have been connected to this. So much more yet to be uncovered, so much pain now.

Subject: RE: BS: Virginia Tech Shooting, 20 dead?
From: Rabbi-Sol
Date: 16 Apr 07 - 02:41 PM

CBS News is now reporting 29 dead.

                                     SOL ZELLER

Subject: RE: BS: Virginia Tech Shooting, 20 dead?
From: Rapparee
Date: 16 Apr 07 - 02:41 PM

Subject: RE: BS: Virginia Tech Shooting, 20 dead?
From: GUEST,meself
Date: 16 Apr 07 - 02:46 PM

"You probably meant to say the Dawson College shooting in Montreal rather than McGill, Rap."

No, he's thinking back ten years ago or so - there were twenty some women shot and killed at L'Ecole Polytechnique, part of McGill.

Subject: RE: BS: Virginia Tech Shooting, 20 dead?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 16 Apr 07 - 02:47 PM

31 dead. Geez.

Subject: RE: BS: Virginia Tech Shooting, 20 dead?
From: katlaughing
Date: 16 Apr 07 - 02:47 PM

No words come to me right now except I feel a profound anger and sadness and dismay.

Subject: RE: BS: Virginia Tech Shooting, 20 dead?
From: bobad
Date: 16 Apr 07 - 02:49 PM

"L'Ecole Polytechnique, part of McGill."

L'Ecole Polytechnique is part of Universite de Montreal.

Subject: RE: BS: Virginia Tech Shooting, 20 dead?
From: nickp
Date: 16 Apr 07 - 02:55 PM

And Blacksburg is a lovely quiet town. I've cvivited it several times and always felt very relaxed there.

Subject: RE: BS: Virginia Tech Shooting, 20 dead?
From: GUEST,meself
Date: 16 Apr 07 - 02:56 PM

Okay, that makes more sense. Anyway, I imagine that's the one Rap was thinking of.

Subject: RE: BS: Virginia Tech Shooting, 20 dead?
From: Big Mick
Date: 16 Apr 07 - 03:00 PM

The first thing that must be said is to express grief and sorrow for the families involved.

As to those that want to turn this into a gun debate, I ask you if it would have been less shocking if this sick individual had done a Tim McVeigh and filled a auto trunk (boot) with fertilizer and kerosene and blew up the building? Bobad did ask one intelligent question. What's the cause? Figure that out and you will end these things much sooner than some phoney gun ban. That will just leave weapons in the hands of irresponsible criminals.

Mick

Subject: RE: BS: Virginia Tech Shooting, 20 dead?
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 16 Apr 07 - 03:02 PM

Another sad day.
I remember the shootings from the Library Tower of my school, Univ. Texas, in 1966. Sixteen killed by the sniper with a rifle. Shock then and shock today.

Was the shooter a student? When I last listened, that was not determined.

Subject: RE: BS: Virginia Tech Shooting, 20 dead?
From: Donuel
Date: 16 Apr 07 - 03:07 PM

I recorded hours of the live broadcasts as they were coming in.

The horrendous mistake :

The shooting started at 7 AM killing people.

the campus was not shut down.

The shooting resumed at 10 AM killing several dozen people.

The College president said there was no link between the shootings.

The shooting was by the same gunman.

The FBI has taken over without offically reported request probably due to a patriot act statute.


Sadly the local FOX channel here only had Holly MOrris, the fluff perky morning person, to cover the shootings. She yapped happily and put a positive spin on everything just as Fox reporters were trained to do but in this case it was obscene.

Subject: RE: BS: Virginia Tech Shooting, 20 dead?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 16 Apr 07 - 03:10 PM

I'm sure the political response will be totally inadequate. And the NRA will put some spin on this to insist that the right to bear arms is not related to this massacre.

Subject: RE: BS: Virginia Tech Shooting, 20 dead?
From: Donuel
Date: 16 Apr 07 - 03:12 PM

The school had 2 bomb threats and now this.

The gunman chained the main doors shut so there was no exit for the victims.

Subject: RE: BS: Virginia Tech Shooting, 20 dead?
From: Bainbo
Date: 16 Apr 07 - 03:16 PM

If you're interested in seeing it, the BBC is streaming live coverage.

Subject: RE: BS: Virginia Tech Shooting, 20 dead?
From: Donuel
Date: 16 Apr 07 - 03:16 PM

32 dead, eight still critical.

Subject: RE: BS: Virginia Tech Shooting, 20 dead?
From: Strollin' Johnny
Date: 16 Apr 07 - 03:48 PM

Outlaw guns. In the western world (Europe, North America) no-one except the farmer needs to have one. There's meat a-plenty to be had at the supermarket, so the hairy-arsed, testosterone-fuelled 'hunters' have no justifiable argument to try to cover their primitive blood-lust.

It's true that people kill people, but those bastards would find it much harder with their bare hands and at close range.

Subject: RE: BS: Virginia Tech Shooting, 20 dead?
From: Riginslinger
Date: 16 Apr 07 - 03:59 PM

"It's true that people kill people, but those bastards would find it much harder with their bare hands and at close range."

       They could always poison the water.

       Or preach two separate religious doctrines and let the people kill each other.

Subject: RE: BS: Virginia Tech Shooting, 20 dead?
From: Rapparee
Date: 16 Apr 07 - 04:07 PM

Apparently the school waited two hours or more after the shootings in the dorm to do anything further. To me, that's unconscionable. And if there were bomb threats last week, why in the world didn't the police take them seriously?

Subject: RE: BS: Virginia Tech Shooting, 20 dead?
From: Donuel
Date: 16 Apr 07 - 04:08 PM

The wounded number 26, 8 critical

Subject: RE: BS: Virginia Tech Shooting, 20 dead?
From: Wesley S
Date: 16 Apr 07 - 04:09 PM

It's interesting to me that the first quotes from the President refer to his support of second amendment rights. I would have thought it would have been better to address that later.

From MSNBC:

White House deputy press secretary Dana Perino said that President Bush "was horrified and his immediate reaction was one of deep concern for the families of the victims, the victims themselves, the students, the professors and all the people of Virginia who have dealt with this shocking incident. His thoughts and prayers are with them."
"The president believes that there is a right for people to bear arms, but that all laws must be followed."

Subject: RE: BS: Virginia Tech Shooting, 20 dead?
From: GUEST,meself
Date: 16 Apr 07 - 04:11 PM

Mister Sensitivity.

Subject: RE: BS: Virginia Tech Shooting, 20 dead?
From: Amos
Date: 16 Apr 07 - 04:15 PM

There are huge gaps missing in this picture. Sigh. I am sure the papers will stretch it out, and keep this one alive for a week, profiling the victims and running every recall by anyone who was within hearing distance and comparing it to all the earlier similar asinine massacres.

Thisis th ekind of madness that makes me want to go back to Arcturus.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Virginia Tech Shooting, 20 dead?
From: GUEST,petr
Date: 16 Apr 07 - 04:19 PM

IM not particularly in favor of easy access to guns. But the causes are more cultural than simple availability of guns. If you look at a country like Switzerland - where by law citizen are required to keep a loaded military gun at home - there is very little gun violence.

Elliot Layton the man who studies murder

has some valid points about gun violence and violence in general.
(for instance the Yanomamo- have a murder rate 5000times the US,
they encourage their kids, from an early age 2-3 even, to hit each other
with sticks) and there are the Kalahari bushmen who are so nonviolent they are shocked that people would spank their children.

Its a terrible and sad day, I feel for all those families..

Subject: RE: BS: Virginia Tech Shooting, 20 dead?
From: beardedbruce
Date: 16 Apr 07 - 04:22 PM

Officials: Gunman dead after bloody campus rampage
POSTED: 4:14 p.m. EDT, April 16, 2007

Story Highlights• Police chief says at least 22 people are dead; congressmen report 32
• Four hospitals report 29 wounded
• Attacks mark deadliest school shooting in U.S. history
• Student describes situation as "mayhem"; says 2 students jumped from window

(CNN) -- A lone gunman is dead after police said he killed at least 21 people and perhaps more Monday during shootings in a dorm and a classroom at Virginia Tech -- the deadliest school attack in U.S. history.

Officials said the shooting incidents occurred two hours apart.

It was not clear if the gunman was killed by police or if he took his own life.

Virginia Reps. Tom Davis and Randy Forbes said they were told that 32 people, including the gunman, were dead. The two said they were given the new death toll by Gov. Tim Kaine's chief of staff.

The governor's office was unable to confirm that number and the Virginia Tech Police Department, which is leading the investigation, said it didn't know where the higher death toll originated.

In a separate interview, Forbes said he heard the shooter was a student, but he emphasized he had no solid information on the shooter's identity or his motive.

"Some victims were shot in a classroom," university police Chief Wendell Flinchum said. (Watch the police chief explain where bodies were found )

Spokespersons for hospitals in Roanoke, Christiansburg, Blacksburg and Salem told CNN they were treating 29 people from the shootings.

Sharon Honaker with Carilion New River Medical Center in Christiansburg said one of the four gunshot victims being treated there was in critical condition.

Scott Hill, a spokesman for Montgomery Regional Hospital in Blacksburg, where 17 wounded students were taken, said he wasn't expecting any more victims.

"Today the university was struck with a tragedy that we consider of monumental proportions," said university President Charles Steger. "The university is shocked and indeed horrified." (Map of Blacksburg)

The killings mark the deadliest school shooting in U.S. history, surpassing attacks at Columbine High School in 1999 and at the University of Texas in 1966.

One person was killed and others were wounded at multiple locations inside a dormitory about 7:15 a.m., Flinchum said. Two hours later, another shooting at Norris Hall -- the engineering science and mechanics building -- resulted in multiple casualties, the university reported. (Campus map)

The first reported shooting occurred at West Ambler Johnston Hall, a coed dormitory that houses 895 students. The dormitory, one of the largest residence halls on the 2,600-acre campus, is located near the drill field and stadium.

Amie Steele, editor-in-chief of the campus newspaper, said one of her reporters at the dormitory reported "mass chaos."

The reporter said there were "lots of students running around, going crazy, and the police officers were trying to settle everyone down and keep everything under control," according to Steele. (Watch police, ambulances hustle to the scene )

Kristyn Heiser said she was in class about 9:30 a.m. when she and her classmates saw about six gun-wielding police officers run by a window.

"We were like, 'What's going on?' Because this definitely is a quaint town where stuff doesn't really happen. It's pretty boring here," said Heiser during a phone interview as she sat on her classroom floor.

Student reports 'mayhem'
Student Matt Waldron said he did not hear the gunshots because he was listening to music, but he heard police sirens and saw officers hiding behind trees with their guns drawn.

"They told us to get out of there so we ran across the drill field as quick as we could," he said.

Waldron described the scene on campus as "mayhem." (Watch a student's recording of police responding to loud bangs )

"It was kind of scary," he said. "These two kids I guess had panicked and jumped out of the top-story window and the one kid broke his ankle and the other girl was not in good shape just lying on the ground."

Madison Van Duyne said she and her classmates in a media writing class were on "lockdown" in their classrooms. They were huddled in the middle of the classroom, writing stories about the shootings and posting them online.

The university is updating its more than 26,000 students through e-mails, and an Internet webcam is broadcasting live pictures of the campus.

The shootings came three days after a bomb threat Friday forced the cancellation of classes in three buildings, WDBJ in Roanoke reported. Also, the 100,000-square-foot Torgersen Hall was evacuated April 2 after police received a written bomb threat, The Roanoke Times reported.

Last August, the first day of classes was cut short by a manhunt after an escaped prisoner was accused of killing a security guard at a Blacksburg hospital and a sheriff's deputy.

After the Monday shootings, students were instructed to stay indoors and away from windows, police at the university said.

"Virginia Tech has canceled all classes. Those on campus are asked to remain where they are, lock their doors and stay away from windows. Persons off campus are asked not to come to campus," a statement on the university Web site said.

The university has scheduled a convocation for 2 p.m. ET Tuesday. Classes also have been canceled Tuesday. In Washington, the House and Senate observed moments of silence for the victims and President Bush was reportedly "horrified" by news of the attacks.

"His thoughts and prayers are with them, and we are monitoring the situation," White House spokeswoman Dana Perino said.

Subject: RE: BS: Virginia Tech Shooting, 20 dead?
From: Bill D
Date: 16 Apr 07 - 04:22 PM

Sadness....that anyone feels that the deaths of innocent people will somehow assuage HIS feelings or 'punish' anyone for imagined offenses.


But because some humans develop these mindsets, it will keep happening from time to time.

Easily available guns just make it easier. I am against easily available guns, but I also realize how difficult it would be to change the gun laws OR the gun mentality in this country.

Subject: RE: BS: Virginia Tech Shooting, 20 dead?
From: Donuel
Date: 16 Apr 07 - 04:33 PM

Strictly my own broad brush perspective and NOT an excuse, but the young people in Virginia have a unique white pride predjudice that is pallatable in their interaction, speech, "nicknames for others", shaved head haircuts and confederate traditions.

A minority student there would find it challenging.
A psychotic minority student there could go beserk.

Subject: RE: BS: Virginia Tech Shooting, 20 dead?
From: Wesley S
Date: 16 Apr 07 - 04:36 PM

You're right. That's a broad brush.

Subject: RE: BS: Virginia Tech Shooting, 20 dead?
From: Bill D
Date: 16 Apr 07 - 04:36 PM

beardedbruce..please post the LINK!...there is no real purpose in 2 screens full of detail here. Those who wish can go read it.