bodhrans in sessions

Subject: RE: bodhrans in sessions
From: gnu
Date: 20 Dec 10 - 02:29 PM

I LOVE IT! Thanks Kendall.

Subject: RE: bodhrans in sessions
From: goatfell
Date: 08 Mar 09 - 04:05 AM

I didn't realize that you were a bodhran player too, better that banjos (bodhrans with strings)

Subject: RE: bodhrans in sessions
From: goatfell
Date: 08 Mar 09 - 04:04 AM

thank you Skarpi.

Subject: RE: bodhrans in sessions
From: terrier
Date: 07 Mar 09 - 03:36 PM

Oops! Did I speak out of turn? :)

Why is a Bodhran better than a Boomarang?

When you throw a Bodhran stick, it DOESN'T come back!

That's just a poor joke, OK, no offence :)

As a piano accordeonist, I've taken a lot of stick over the years at sessions, if it's not too big and taking up too much room, it's playing in the wrong key for the melodeons, etc.etc. As far as bods go (Should I be calling them Hrans now?)a poor player can be a real pain but I'd happily have a good Bodhran player sitting next to me in a session, no reason why they should be relegated to the back of the room.

Subject: RE: bodhrans in sessions
From: gnu
Date: 07 Mar 09 - 03:01 PM

"John may not be as good as Mance Grady..."

Here now... none of that. Hranners don't say those kinds of things eh?

Subject: RE: bodhrans in sessions
From: maire-aine
Date: 07 Mar 09 - 02:43 PM

I'd like to echo what Skarpi said. Sugarfoot Jack, what exactly is eating you? Is there some particular incident, or have you seen some trend involving bodhran players that you want to draw to people's attention?

Regards,
Mary

Subject: RE: bodhrans in sessions
From: terrier
Date: 07 Mar 09 - 02:22 PM

Re Mance Grady.. how did he do that? Brilliant! I suppose it's like any other instrument, some people can and some can't.
I was in Scotland some years ago working with HarmoniumHero(John Kelly). We were in a pub having an afternoon drink and the barman was trying to accompany some piped music on a Bod, not making a very good job of it. Kelly was staring at him and eventually the guy gives the Bod to John and says "can you do any better". John may not be as good as Mance Grady, but he gave the barman a lesson on what you CAN do with a one sided drum if you practice. The barman took in good humour and stumped up some free drinks for us.

Subject: RE: bodhrans in sessions
From: gnu
Date: 07 Mar 09 - 01:52 PM

Barry.... that link will not work for me. Last I heard from Mance was on one of his tapes. Fine technician. I saw him in Boston many years ago... much better live than any recordings. Then again, that's usually the way.

Subject: RE: bodhrans in sessions
From: Geoff Wallis
Date: 07 Mar 09 - 01:29 PM

'and the same with fiddle players one sounds the same as another'

Dearie me!

Subject: RE: bodhrans in sessions
From: Barry Finn
Date: 07 Mar 09 - 12:52 PM

Here a last minute clip of Mance Grady ending the Berkely Percussion Festival.

Barry

Subject: RE: bodhrans in sessions
From: skarpi
Date: 07 Mar 09 - 09:49 AM

Why are some people really rude,good manner s ??

now listen Goatfell , if read my message again , and I am sorry
I forgit to tell that when Bodhran is not lead instrument then we dont need to sit in the front do we ??

I am not rude and yes I know good manners and I always stand for older people when I travel by bus ,, but when chair is needed in session I simply get another chair for you , such an easy way :>)

what has your comment got to do with bodhran players at sessions

first I play bodhran , I dont sit in the front , I always respect those who play the tunes , I never start play until they have finished
the first bar ,

Like I said , I am not rude , and I know my manners , so like I said read my message again .

So Goatfell , I dont know from witch side of the bed you went this morning , but I hope you have a good day . :>)

all the best from Skarpi

Subject: RE: bodhrans in sessions
From: Ptarmigan
Date: 07 Mar 09 - 09:44 AM

"I'm seeing a lot less squadrons of bodhrans than I used to (around Edinburgh)."

Ah Ha Jack, so Llig's message must be getting through to folks up there! ;-)

Cheers
Dick

Subject: RE: bodhrans in sessions
From: goatfell
Date: 07 Mar 09 - 09:38 AM

what has your comment got to do with bodhran players at sessions

Subject: RE: bodhrans in sessions
From: goatfell
Date: 07 Mar 09 - 09:31 AM

if you're at a session and there are seats there then it's good manners to give up you seat I would, wouldn't you.

Subject: RE: bodhrans in sessions
From: Megan L
Date: 07 Mar 09 - 08:57 AM

Anyone who has had the pleasure of meeting Skarpi knows he is one of the gentlest and most mannerly men ever to enter the mudcat.

Subject: RE: bodhrans in sessions
From: goatfell
Date: 07 Mar 09 - 08:54 AM

some people including me don't drive so we have to reliy on public transport or else ask some how is going to the session if they can give you a lift so please don't assume that everyone has a car becuase some of us don't and if there a seat then give them one if not then tell them where the seats are ist's known as good manners. Why are some people really rude, I smetimes feel like giving them a good slap with my bodhran stick, but then their brain(if they've got one!) would understand this.

Subject: RE: bodhrans in sessions
From: goatfell
Date: 07 Mar 09 - 08:47 AM

have not heard of good manners

Subject: RE: bodhrans in sessions
From: skarpi
Date: 07 Mar 09 - 08:25 AM

Hallo all ,

I play guitar and Bodhrán , and I learned in a session I went to
in Newcastle C-down in N-Ireland , in a pub called Mahara-inn ,
that the bodhrán is not a lead instrument and I should always
start to play after the first bar : also I play soft on the drum
and not with heavy sound .

I do not go to many session ,but we do have a sessions in Reykjavik
once a week now and one of the Bodhrán players is bothering me when I play and sing on my guitar , but I try not to get to him , but I have asked him to listen and play a little softer . :>) .

and other thing why should I stand up or give up my seat ??
why dont people just come in earlier ??

skarpi

Subject: RE: bodhrans in sessions
From: Stu
Date: 07 Mar 09 - 08:06 AM

The best bodhran player I have ever seen (apart from my best mate Den) is Martin O'Neill, who plays with Julie Fowlis. He's a sublime player, non-intrusive and sensitive, allowing the tune to come to the fore. He also got an actual tune out of his drum; something many claim to be able to do, but he's the only one I've ever seen doing it.

The good players know the tunes, and generally play another instrument as well as the bodhran.

Subject: RE: bodhrans in sessions
From: goatfell
Date: 07 Mar 09 - 08:00 AM

I play the bodhran and guitar and think that people should be able to play whatever insterment they want execpt eletric guitars and banjos becasue I beleive that a banjo is just a bodhran with strings and the same with fiddle players one sounds the same as another and tit for me a bit boring but then you get these folk music snobs who think that they are better than everyone else and then they come on to this website and tell everyone about how snobish they are

Subject: RE: bodhrans in sessions
From: GUEST,Mr Red
Date: 07 Mar 09 - 07:19 AM

A surfeit of any instrument can be detrimental.
A dominant instrument can be just as annoying. You want a list?
A badly played instrument kills the atmosphere.

But as for giving-up a seat for a prima donna.
When they prop their violin case on the seat you want, or put it on the floor so there is nowhere for your feet. Courtesy is a two way street.

Subject: RE: bodhrans in sessions
From: gnu
Date: 06 Mar 09 - 03:32 PM

Ya know... I have the utmost respect for Kelly... he is a fine player, and his Hran is amazing (ya don't get a goat like that every day).

But, it did stike me as I watched that vid... forgive me if this sounds a tad uppity... that sometimes, non-Hraners might be just a wee jealous of the fact that someone like Kelly can elicit such a myriad of tone and tune from "just bangin on a drum."

Hran on! >;-)

Subject: RE: bodhrans in sessions
From: maeve
Date: 06 Mar 09 - 01:31 PM

I love the sound of a well-played bodhran. I'm aiming for that sound in my own playing. My post was a tongue-in-cheek suggestion as to how I myself might be able to keep on practicing my developing bodhran skills while my broken arm heals. I have great respect for my bodhran teacher; thus the reference to "a tipper of the hat"

There are several musicians posting here who are seeing the humour without being put off by the ignorance that occasionally trickles in.
My policy is to ignore the malicious or blatently obnoxious posts; preferring to beat my drum rather than other people with whose opinions I differ.

Respectfully,

maeve

Subject: RE: bodhrans in sessions
From: Stu
Date: 06 Mar 09 - 12:54 PM

"No the english are."

Oh dear.

Subject: RE: bodhrans in sessions
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 06 Mar 09 - 12:27 PM

"I know that I am interrupting y'alls little hatefest,"

Not me leeneia, just as valid as anything else that people bring to group music. Can bring great tone, drama and rhythm. I am also keen fan of the spoons.

Everyone brings joy to a session, some when they arrive and some when they leave. Now where is my banjo?

L in C

Subject: RE: bodhrans in sessions
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 06 Mar 09 - 12:08 PM

I know that I am interrupting y'alls little hatefest, but it seems to me that many people dislike the bodhran because they have never heard it played right.

I wish I could give you a link to a video I came across where a man was doing it wrong. It was in a pub, and the drum was much too dry. It had all the resonance of a piece of 1/4-inch plywood. (It didn't help that every instrument was out of tune with every other.)

Here's a link to how a bodhran should sound:

not too wet and not too dry

Notice the resonance? Notice the audience getting quiet and listening?

We see 'Milwaukee' in the background. That's my hometown.

Subject: RE: bodhrans in sessions
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 06 Mar 09 - 11:09 AM

It certainly is Maeve, one of the best 100 suggestions of things to do with a Bodhran, I suggest

L in C

Subject: RE: bodhrans in sessions
From: maeve
Date: 06 Mar 09 - 10:54 AM

I'm planning to have my doctor incorporate my Hran rim into my new left arm cast next week, as a tipper-of-my-hat to my bodhran teacher. I can keep practicing while the fractured radius heals. Great idea, eh?

maeve

Subject: RE: bodhrans in sessions
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 06 Mar 09 - 10:44 AM

"But really, why keep beating a dead goat?"

Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm careful now.

I seem to be appearing on threads I have not posted on

BOGOF?

Subject: RE: bodhrans and Irish music
From: gnu
Date: 06 Mar 09 - 10:41 AM

No. Hran on!!

Subject: RE: bodhrans and Irish music
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 06 Mar 09 - 10:40 AM

No permanent damage is done to songs or tunes by playing them. If it happens when you are around and you don't like it - leave.

L in C

Subject: RE: bodhrans and Irish music
From: Tim Leaning
Date: 06 Mar 09 - 10:36 AM

No the english are.

Subject: bodhrans and Irish music
From: Stu
Date: 06 Mar 09 - 10:31 AM

Are bodhrans spoiling Irish music?

Subject: RE: bodhrans in sessions
From: michaelr
Date: 03 May 07 - 08:35 PM

Richard -- drumming behind the beat is fine in R&B and some other styles. In Irish dance music, which depends on the "lift", it is death!

But really, why keep beating a dead goat?

Cheers,
Michael

Subject: RE: bodhrans in sessions
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 03 May 07 - 06:27 PM

"behind the beat" can be a matter of taste to some extent. By way of examples, surf (Beach Boys) is played "toes on the nose" but R&B (UK terminology) is played on a back-beat eg Charlie Watts.

Subject: RE: bodhrans in sessions
From: Barry Finn
Date: 03 May 07 - 06:23 PM

We could all do with out concertinas too Dick but I wouldn't ask you to sit out just so's I could sit in. To expect any musician to sit out in preference for a different instrument is quite classist. If it's to crowded take a back seat & enjoy it but don't expect someone else to jump up & ride in the back of the bus for you.

Barry

Subject: RE: bodhrans in sessions
From: The Sandman
Date: 03 May 07 - 06:18 PM

shoulder to shoulder is no good if the music suffers,.
music can be played without bodhrans,without any ill effect,.
if only thirty percent of bodhran players actually benefit the music[and thats my long painful experience],if their cramping the style of the session,and preventing melody players from playing properly,they[bodhran players] need to desist.
whatever kind of a session can one have with just bodhran players ,the mind boggles.

Subject: RE: bodhrans in sessions
From: Barry Finn
Date: 03 May 07 - 05:47 PM

I've been playing the drum just as long, Dick & if a melody player, or lead or percussion player for that matter wants a seat they can get there early or get in line, otherwise it's shoulder to shoulder.

Barry

Subject: RE: bodhrans in sessions
From: The Sandman
Date: 03 May 07 - 01:44 PM

The issue is really about space for melody players.
Ihave been a musician for over thirty years,I practice every day,today I have done two hours practicehttp://www.dickmiles.com

Subject: RE: bodhrans in sessions
From: guitar
Date: 03 May 07 - 12:56 PM

i agree

Subject: RE: bodhrans in sessions
From: Greg B
Date: 03 May 07 - 11:35 AM

I sometimes wonder how some of these session players manage to find
time to play their instruments, them being as occupied as they are
with playing up the faults of others.

Becripes, if you want to have control over the situation, form a
regular bloody band. (Of course that has its own set of difficulties.)

Subject: RE: bodhrans in sessions
From: gnu
Date: 02 May 07 - 01:47 PM

bow as in bow before your King

Subject: RE: bodhrans in sessions
From: guitar
Date: 02 May 07 - 01:25 PM

what about banjo/accordian players

Subject: RE: bodhrans in sessions
From: The Sandman
Date: 02 May 07 - 12:45 PM

I call it a bo rahn,by the way im not against bodhran players.and really its more a question [as someone else pointed out].of any player not squeezing in.and taking up someones space.
On the other hand melody instruments can generally have a good session,without bodhrans,only about 30 per cent of bodhran players,actually enchance and lift the melody instruments,.
which is probably a better ratio than bouzouki players,who often just fill in the sound without any rhythmic lift,but at least they dont destroy the music by playing out of rhythym.
Iam of course only giving a personal opinion,and speaking from my own experience[there must beBouzouki players with no sense of rhythym.Ihavent encountered any

Subject: RE: bodhrans in sessions
From: Menno
Date: 02 May 07 - 12:04 PM

I do occasionally wield a botheration in anger... Love asking beforehand what key we're playing in =). I am still at the stage where *most* of the time I can put in my triplets where I want them. Should practice more, perhaps under the eye of an experienced player. I did try a solo once, but ran out of steam half way through.

I do get slightly annoyed by the notion that you should only break out a bothran if you can play it to absolute perfection, and even then sit there in the corner under the stairs next to the cat's litter tray. I *know* you don't want to play louder than the fiddle player. I *know* you don't play on the slow airs. I know that the music is more important than the players. Simply looking down yer noses at me because of the specific instrument I've chosen this time, might actually induce me to raise my left hand off the skin a biiit more than might otherwise have been the case.

Oh and another thing: What IS the correct pronunciation of bothran? I've heard it as BOW-rawn (bow as in bow before your King), and as boh-RAHN. I suspect that this is merely a fiendish plot to get bothran players to fight among themselves rather than against the rest of the session.

Cheers,
Menno

Subject: RE: bodhrans in sessions
From: Ella who is Sooze
Date: 02 May 07 - 06:50 AM

I play and teach the bodhran, and i try to instill a bit of courtesy in my learners. Most of them take notice, but some are convinced that they know better. So, what can you do.

All my students know, to be polite, not crowd a session, don't be too loud, blend in with the music and don't monopolise a session. Most of it is common sense.

As for saying that most bodhran people can't play a tune.

What a load of ould clap trap...

I play flute/whistle etc, can diddle a tune etc. As a teacher of the bodhran I have to play music - for my students to practice along with. Or, if I am playing too and demonstrating, then I'll diddle the tune for them to play along with. Essentially, a good bodhran player should know and LEARN the tunes they are playing, it's then that they can be most sensitive to the tune's requirements.

A good bodhran player is lovely to hear. If my students are with me in sessions and get a bit too loud, then I'll give them a discreet whisper.

It's a great instrument, in the right hands...

sorry... don't normally get caught up in the thread doo dahs... but couldn't help mesen

Subject: RE: bodhrans in sessions
From: Tim theTwangler
Date: 01 May 07 - 05:24 PM

I tis best I have found to listen then play quietly on any instrument you are not truly proficient on.
I have noticed that some players in sessions set out to bate and humiliate the bodrhan players as a matter of course
You know who you are
For Shame!

Subject: RE: bodhrans in sessions
From: Susan A-R
Date: 01 May 07 - 01:33 PM

I have only ever minded bodhran players once, when I had one on either side, a spoons player behind, and another bodhran player to the left of the bodhran player on my left. Two of the bodhran players were quite good. One was not, and played during slow airs,and insisted on beating reels in three, saying she was double timing. But I think the main offense here has nothing to do with the instrument, it's more to do with not listening, and not thinking about how you function within a session.   I like playing music reasonably well with other people, playing at a pace that works with the particular session and making sure I can hear other folks to make sure I'm respecting tempo, tune changes, and if I am doing harmony, chord progressions. If, as a fiddler, I drown out my neighbors, I will miss a lot of important information. Same is true for pretty much anyone in that circle.

Subject: RE: bodhrans in sessions
From: GUEST,Geoff Wright
Date: 01 May 07 - 12:06 PM

Nice to hear from you BanjoRay.
The big drums are Lambegs. I chanced to drop on a Lambeg website which had tutorials on the various rhythms rattled out, demonstrated by drumming his fingers on a table. The video-clips of this seemingly dismembered tapping hand had me imagining "Thing" from the Adams Family.



Don't know about (W) "rights", if there are musicians in the session, they may be within their rights to explain whether the bodhran is behind the beat or playing a totally unsuitable rhythm, and hopefully putting the offender on the right track with some clapping exercises as a quick rhythm tutorial.

Subject: RE: bodhrans in sessions
From: GUEST
Date: 01 May 07 - 11:50 AM

Never mind bodhrans in sessions - "rights" in sessions ????