Sea Music in a world context

Subject: Sea Music in a world context
From: Musique174
Date: 29 Apr 07 - 02:44 AM

Sea music comes from cultures that are on the sea... Got that. Most of the shanties I know are American, Canadian, Brit/Celtic, French, Dutch or German. What about the other countries around the world? Does anyone know if other sea faring area's had sea shanties? Can you give an example?

Subject: RE: Sea Music in a world context
From: Barry Finn
Date: 29 Apr 07 - 03:31 AM

The Arabs used shanties when sailing in dhows.

Barry

Subject: RE: Sea Music in a world context
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 29 Apr 07 - 03:39 AM

Stan Hugill cites ' John Kanaka ' as originating in the South Pacific,
kanaka being the Hawaiian word for man, but the refrain being of Polynesian origin and the word ' tulai_e ' being Samoan.

eric

Subject: RE: Sea Music in a world context
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 29 Apr 07 - 03:47 AM

I am aware of only one (!) Greek net-hauling song, written specifically for the purpose. I understand that the Greek fishermen, when hauling the nets mostly sung dance songs to the "balos" rhythm, they kind of songs they'd dance to when on shore. Many of those (as well as many of the "mantinada" table-songs from Crete) had a one verse/one story structure, and participants were invited to make up their own next verse as they went (sort of like "Martin said to his man")

Subject: RE: Sea Music in a world context
From: greg stephens
Date: 29 Apr 07 - 03:57 AM

A Palestinian man sung me a bit oof an Arab shanty once. The refrain sounded like "hailya hailya" which is intriguingly like "haul away" and "halantow" etc.

Subject: RE: Sea Music in a world context
From: GUEST,Rev
Date: 29 Apr 07 - 01:15 PM

I just wrote my dissertation on this topic. I was primarily looking at Pacific Islanders' sea music. I recommend a book, published in 1888, by Laura Alexandrine Smith, titled "Music of the Waters." She collected chanteys and sea songs from all over the world, including China, Malaysia, Japan, Tonga, New Zealand, the Middle East and from many countries of Europe. It's expensive to buy, and hard to find, since it has never been reprinted, but some libraries have it, especially universities.
Rev

Subject: RE: Sea Music in a world context
From: Musique174
Date: 29 Apr 07 - 02:40 PM

Thanks for the book, I've requested it through the university library, we don't have it, but they have it in the university library system, so it should be here in a week or two. Can't wait to see it.

Subject: RE: Sea Music in a world context
From: Charley Noble
Date: 29 Apr 07 - 05:29 PM

Rev-

Thanks for the reference. I was certain that any sea-faring culture at some period would have created sea shanties. The fact that we have a large inventory of European sea shanties is most likely related to the priorities of the collectors rather than the creation and development of such songs around the world.

The West Indies should also be mentioned, one of the few places where the shanties are still being song for helping with work.

Cheerily,
Charley Noble

Subject: RE: Sea Music in a world context
From: GUEST,Rev
Date: 30 Apr 07 - 02:20 AM

Yes, L.A. Smith was really ahead of her time. She was the daughter of the Russian vice-consul at Newcastle-On-Tyne, and was a real cosmopolitan. She gathered her information first hand in ports all over the world, while most folklorists (or popular antiquarians) of the late 19th century were still firmly entrenched in their armchairs. Of course her book contains some outdated cultural stereotypes, but her argument for the ancient and global nature of chanteying is hard to refute.

Subject: RE: Sea Music in a world context
From: ship*scat
Date: 30 Apr 07 - 02:34 AM

Throw in some Scandanavian shanties. Bengali, Japanese, West African and all up and down the windward and leeward islands of the Carribean along with the Spanish Main.

Don't forget Platdeutch, Freisen and lowland Scots in the obscure categories.

Arab shanties were hard to come by in Arabia. I and contacts tried for a year and didn't come with anything. Old is considered embarassing.

KC

Subject: RE: Sea Music in a world context
From: Peter Kasin
Date: 30 Apr 07 - 02:58 AM

Hi, Musique, and Rev. One correction, though Laura Alexandrine's book was reprinted in 1969. I own one, which I got through www.bookfinder.com. They have more copies. it is stiil, though, VERY expensive.

A current group in Iran performs traditional Persian sailor songs of their Southern Iranan province of Boushre.
Among the many chanteys Alan Lomax recorded, some really interesting ones can be found on his field recordings of West indies, Italian, and Sicilian laborers. Check out Rounder records website. They are in the process of releasing onto CD the complete Lomax collections, which will take a number of years. The CD "Japanese Work Songs" has some fishermen's net-hauling songs. It's hard to find, but can be ordered online.

If you can find the hardcover edition of Hugill's "Shanties from the Seven Seas,' it contains many international shanties not found in the paperback edition, including a Sicilian chantey, "Brindisi Di Marinai ("sailor's toast") sung to the tune of Rueben Ranzo. Another of his books, "Songs of the Sea," has that one plus other international songs.

The book "Japanese Folk Songs", edited by Ryutaro Hattori, was published by The Japan Times in 1950, and was reprinted and enlarged in 1974. I can bring it and the one mentioned below to a chantey sing, Musique. Just let me know if you'd like to see them. try the bookfinder website, too.

Another book, called "Japanese Folk Songs: Hokkaido District" by Kan iishi, has the well-known fisherman's net-hauling song "Soran Bushi" plus a few other net-hauling songs.

The Scottish Gaelic language tradition of rowing songs is another genre worth investigating.

Rev, who posted above, is a great source of knowledge. A graduate student on the East coast, who i found on the net, has travelled to Africa collecting West African rowing songs. I should have written his name down! I'll try the net search again.

There is so much material out there, some yet to be recorded, some housed in university archives, some in out of print books. makes you feel like a kid in a candy store. Happy hunting Musique! The chantey world is your oyster.

Chanteyranger

Subject: RE: Sea Music in a world context
From: GUEST,Rev
Date: 30 Apr 07 - 03:18 AM

I've also been in touch with a guy who is looking at Aleut sea music, and the influence of Arctic whalers. I can dig up his name too

Subject: RE: Sea Music in a world context
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 30 Apr 07 - 05:45 AM

Ancient Egypt!

"sailors on the Nile matched their strokes to the rythmn of a traditional shanty" - p. 126, in Joyce Tyldesley's "Daughters of Isis - Women of Ancient Egypt." London, Penguin, 1994

According to the bibliography this statement came from -
Manniche, Lise. Music and musicians in Ancient Egypt. London : British Museum Press, c1991. Description: 142 p., [16] p. of plates : ISBN: 0714109495 (pbk)

sandra

Subject: RE: Sea Music in a world context
From: GUEST,Nicholas Waller
Date: 30 Apr 07 - 08:37 AM

Abebooks.co.uk shows 8 copies of Smith's book, but they are £64 to £146.

Subject: RE: Sea Music in a world context
From: PoppaGator
Date: 30 Apr 07 - 10:56 AM

I've been told (by KC King, a fairly expert source) that shanties are an overwhelmingly English-language phenomenon because the British and American fleets economized (and prospered) during the peak pre-steam-power era by manning large ships with small crews. Other nations' merchant-marine fleets paid for much larger crews and their financial positions suffered accordingly.

A lot of work needed to be done by relatively few hands, placing extra importance on anything that could contribute to coordination, teamwork, etc., and work-song singing provided a highly funcitonal answer.

Subject: RE: Sea Music in a world context
From: Blowzabella
Date: 30 Apr 07 - 12:33 PM

There is also a tradition in Italy, including Venetian pile driving songs. La Moresca Antica are at the forefront of finding and performing these songs in Italy - I've also seen them at Liverpool. Although their sound is more like an early music group, there music is still very much of their own tradition - rather wonderful, I think, and they are very different to maritime music performers from other parts of the world - woth including in any dissertation, i would think.   La Moresca Antica

Subject: RE: Sea Music in a world context
From: GUEST,Bob Walser
Date: 05 Jun 07 - 09:44 AM

Another Italian connection:
I have an old Lyricord LP (LLST 7333) entitled "Folk Music and Songs of Sicily: Work Songs vol. 1" (is there a vol 2?) which includes 8 "Canti della tonnara / Songs of the Tuna Fishers" Some of this sounds like it was recorded at sea and there is some shanty-like call and response singing.

Subject: RE: Sea Music in a world context
From: katlaughing
Date: 05 Jun 07 - 11:51 AM

addall.com which searches all bookselling sites lists several copies of Smith's book, but as noted they are quite expensive: click.

Subject: RE: Sea Music in a world context
From: GUEST,Lighter
Date: 05 Jun 07 - 06:13 PM

Save your money. Smith's book is available online through Google Books.

Go to Google home, click on "more," click on "Books," then search for the title.