Tin Whistle help

Subject: Tin Whistle help
From: LukeKellylives (Chris)
Date: 29 Apr 07 - 06:38 PM

I recently picked up a tin whistle, and everything is fine except for one thing. In all the Irish songs in D, they use the last three holes (farthest from the mouthpiece), and still manage to play it loudly. Now, my problem is that most of these require you to play the lower octave of the first three holes, which is either impossible to do, or I'm just not breathing the right way. I can get it, but it's so soft you can't even hear it. I know that they don't just use the higher octave on the last three, and use the normal key on the first (blowing harder on the last ones, and normal on the first ones), because it doesn't squeak or sound awful.

Any help would be appreciated.

Subject: RE: Tin Whistle help
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 29 Apr 07 - 07:05 PM

To easliy get the lower octave, lower half, first start off playing the note in teh lower octave that has only the top 3 fingers down.

You need to 'think the notes in' at first.

I found that the most helpful thought is to imagine opening up your throat from the back of your tongue, all the way down your windpipe. This seems to relax things, and open up the resonance areas, and help you get the lower notes more easily and loudly.

Beginners often find they can get the upper octave easier than the lower one, this usually has to do with 'blowing too hard', and well as the other trick I mentioned.

It takes time and practice. Don't try to play too loud at first, just work steadily and easily at it. And nver try to 'blow harder to make it louder' - that just is not the way the physics of a whistle works - you blow harder, and you always get 'overblow tones' - first the octave, then the succeeding higher pitches in the 'overblow harmonic sequence'.

The loudness is dependent on correct playing technique (assuming nothing is wrong with the instrument!) - so just keep working at it!


:-)

Subject: RE: Tin Whistle help
From: LukeKellylives (Chris)
Date: 29 Apr 07 - 07:33 PM

Thanks. Not really quite sure how I'm going to get it loud, still. It's barely audible on the first three closest to the mouthpiece (the low octave, that is).

Subject: RE: Tin Whistle help
From: Jack Campin
Date: 29 Apr 07 - 07:56 PM

Some whistles are just plain feeble on these low notes. Generations and Generation clones (Walton, "feadogs", Guinness whistles, Camacs) are particularly bad. Susatos are better and posh aluminium whistles like Albas and Overtons better still. A wider bore goes along with a more powerful low register (but may make the high B a real bugger to play with an acceptable sound quality).

The best overall balance I've come across has been in wooden whistles (one from China and one from Romania, neither of them being the commonly available type from those countries, I just got lucky).

Unfortunately most whistles are sold to people with rock-bottom expectations. At almost *any* price point, the same money spent on a recorder will get you a better designed and better quality-controlled instrument.

Subject: RE: Tin Whistle help
From: LukeKellylives (Chris)
Date: 29 Apr 07 - 08:00 PM

That explains why. I have a Generation.

Subject: RE: Tin Whistle help
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 29 Apr 07 - 08:12 PM

I have no real problem with Generations. It's got a lot to do with technique, really, even with a more difficult instrument.

Of course, even though a better muso will get a better result with a lousy instrument than a beginner will, you may just have a bad Generation too. Try a Sweetone (conical shape) if you can get one.

"A bad workman always blames his tools!"
:-)
Robin

Subject: RE: Tin Whistle help
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 29 Apr 07 - 09:43 PM

Question is, without the tin whistle, can you whistle the notes you want. Nothing fancy, just pucker up and blow.

When you whistle - without the tin whistle - you control the pitch by changing the volume inside your mouth adjacent to where the blow comes out. Practice that for a bit, paying attention to what you do when you change the pitch.

When you whistle - with the tin whistle - you must match the pitch you want the whistle to play with the volume inside your mouth adjacent to the mouthpiece, if you want a good stable tone.

As an exercise you might try to whistle the note with the tin whistle away from your lips, and then gradually bring the tin whistle up and "insert it," gradually, into the airstream and see if you can get it to pick up your tone. Try several notes to see what your mouth is doing differently when you change.

Also note that any leaks around any of your fingers on the finger holes can cause the tin whistle to try to "break" to a higher harmonic; and the break is more likely when you blow harder, so be very careful that you're getting a consistent, comfortably firm grip and finger placement at every hole, especially when you go to the lower notes in the register. More holes to be closed means more places for tiny leaks.

If your finger pads are a bit "ratty" from hard work all day at the scrap yard (my problem when I was a kid) you may be able to smooth them with a bit of judicious gentle sandpapering, and/or perhaps a bit of good lotion. If you're a well-practiced guitarist, you may have callouses that are hard enough (and strangely grooved/flattened/deformed) to fail to conform to the round holes without a bit of special attention. If you must, use a part of your fingers a little back from the tips, where the flesh may be a bit softer (tech term - the flabby part), until you learn to get good consistent closure of all the holes.

John

Subject: RE: Tin Whistle help
From: GUEST,Nick
Date: 29 Apr 07 - 11:11 PM

I Posted this elswhere but it is the best advise I have
While I was first learning there are a few things I found to be helpfull.

Cover all the holes you want covered completely. Any gaps make for funny noises. Half-holing is an advanced trick that will come with time, dont mess with it till you get the regular stuff down. As for fingering speed that comes with practice and becoming comfortable finding notes. Most important is to blow the note properly so you get the audio feedback to reinforce the right fingering techniques.

Breath controll is also VERY important. Practice an ascending scale. When playing the lowest note practice using the least amount of air to get that note. You will need to blow slightly harder to get the right sound of the next higher note. This continues up the scale of the octave. If you are blowing the strength you need for the top note, or higher note in the scale then drop down two notes you won't get the right sound, you need to blow more gently for the lower notes than the higher notes.

You can get three octaves out of most whistles but that usualy does not sound great in the top octave. Most tunes are written for two octaves.Sometimes people blow way too hard to begin with and are actually starting in the second octave. Use the least amount of breath you can to get the lowest note to make sure you are at the low end of the scale.

Another concept I found usefull was thinking about blowing faster, rather than harder to go up the scale. This is just a mental thing to conceptualize the idea of putting less air or more air through the whistle.    Softer=slower=less air ... Harder=Faster=More Air

There is virtuall no air resistance to the whistle so it feels like you are not blowing hard even when you are moving enough air top pop the scale up to the second octave, and it's pretty easy to overblow and go up to the third, and you don't want to go there!


Hope this is helpfull.

WFTD

Nick

Subject: RE: Tin Whistle help
From: GUEST,Nick
Date: 29 Apr 07 - 11:18 PM

Another question...what kind of whistle do you have, if you think it is too quiet, I'm guessing a Clarke Traditional.You just need to learn how to play it.
Nick

Subject: RE: Tin Whistle help
From: GUEST,Nick
Date: 29 Apr 07 - 11:23 PM

Oh yeah.. and Try Chiff & Fipple for a whistle webstie.
Crap I wish I could edit. So Iwould not need 3 posts for 1 mesage.

Subject: RE: Tin Whistle help
From: leeneia
Date: 30 Apr 07 - 08:59 AM

The lower you go, the more gently you must breathe.

Make sure you have all the notes completely closed, paying particular attention to the big holes.

I second what Jack Campin said above about the superiority of recorders over whistles.

Subject: RE: Tin Whistle help
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 30 Apr 07 - 10:06 AM

With regard to recorders, beginners can sound worse than with whistles, especially if a cheap $2 one is used. And the reason most of those school recorder bands sound so shrill and ear piercing is that you CAN blow too hard on a cheap recorder without apparently forcing the pitch. I say apparently, because you do indeed force the pitch a bit high, which is why a dozen enthusiastic youngesteers each forcing the pitch a different little amount sound so... er.... ear-catching...

The most common recorder beginners mistake is blowing too hard, not just the right amount for each pitch. It just SEEMS easier than a whistle...

Subject: RE: Tin Whistle help
From: Bernard
Date: 30 Apr 07 - 11:33 AM

Most tunes on the whistle are better played in the middle range (second octave) to get volume without effort...

If you play with all the holes covered, that is D on a 'D whistle', then uncover ONLY the hole nearest your mouth, and that is the start of the second octave. Many people just blow harder, which is incorrect (I play Boehm flute, too). E uses the same fingering in both octaves, though.

The third octave D is different - starting with all holes covered, uncover the hole nearest your mouth AND the bottom three holes, and blow slightly harder. E is different in this octave - of the five holes normally used to play E in the other two octaves, uncover the middle hole, too - so it's first and second finger on both hands.

Any decent player can get nearly three octaves from a standard 6-hole whistle - I've been playing Generations for around forty years without any problems in lack of volume. It helps having been classically trained on the Boehm flute.

Admittedly the third octave tends to be on the shrill side...!! ;o)

Subject: RE: Tin Whistle help
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 30 Apr 07 - 05:28 PM

Actually you can play the whole second octave using only the bottom three holes and overblow - it's just a tabor-pipe then.... :-)

Subject: RE: Tin Whistle help
From: Bernard
Date: 30 Apr 07 - 05:31 PM

Yus!