Credit where credit's due

Subject: Credit where credit's due
From: Ronn
Date: 05 Apr 99 - 11:21 PM

The "Waste Of Vinyl" thread put an idea in my head. There were many who were not fond (a euphemism) of James Taylor (myself included), but a recent listening to some old cds reminded me that I did actually enjoy his recordings of "Second Star To The Right" and "It's Only A Paper Moon". So I got to wondering if there is anyone else who has in some manner become aware of a fine (or at least creditable) performance from someone that you didnt expect it from. Anyone?

Subject: RE: Credit where credit's due
From: Joe Offer
Date: 05 Apr 99 - 11:59 PM

Well, this isn't quite the same, because I give Lyle Lovett a lot of credit for his usual stuff. I watched a video of the movie Quiz Show the other day. At the closing credits was a recording of Lyle singing a traditional (German-style) version of "Mack the Knife." I don't know who did the Bobby Darin version at the beginning of the movie - it was good, but Lovett's rendition was extraordinary. It's the first English-language rendering of the song I've heard that was close to the impact of the original German.
Good movie, too.
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: Credit where credit's due
From: Ritchie
Date: 06 Apr 99 - 07:46 AM

I went to see an open air concert, I can't actually remember who the main performer was but Micheal MacDonald was also on the show.At that point in time I was n't aware of who he was but he was incredible , what a vocal range and the production was spot on, so much so that I thought he was miming. A little while later I went to see him in concert and once again he gave a faultless thoroughly professional performance. Thank you Micheal.Long may you keep on runnin'.

A very humble Ritchie

Subject: RE: Credit where credit's due
From: Bruce O.
Date: 06 Apr 99 - 10:10 AM

I picked us a cheapie 78 record one time that was called 'American Folk Songs'. It cost $1.00. The singer wasn't identified on the jacket or the record. As soon as I started playing it I recognized the singer as Ed. McCurdy. There are beautiful versions of some folksongs on it that I've never heard elsewhere, Drimindown, Lukey's Boat, Gay Spanish Maid, and the great Canadian epic Squaring up Time on the Squid Jigging Ground. It's still one of my prize records.

Subject: RE: Credit where credit's due
From: Bert
Date: 06 Apr 99 - 11:09 AM

Bruce,

Would you post the words to 'Squaring up Time on the Squid Jigging Ground' I can't find them in DT.

Thanks, Bert.

Subject: RE: Credit where credit's due
From: DonMeixner
Date: 06 Apr 99 - 11:40 AM

I have been surprised at three concerts in my life. I saw Paul Siebel at Jabberwocky in Syracuse, NY 1973. A wasted looking and thoroughly hammered performer playe 3 faultless sets plus encores, The Traum Brothers were also there, yawn.

I saw The Moody Blues and The James Gang, play a high level and high horsepower set each at the War memorial in March of 1970. Only to have Dion come out with a chair and a D-28 and steel the show.

I saw an unknown act at the Saratoga performing arts center in 1968 warm up for a rock band of national note. I don't remember the band but I remember the energy of John Denver. And everytime I thought he'd lapsed into total cuteness over ther years I'd some how catch him in a live performance and rediscover how good a performer he was. A great, sincere, live performance can over come some producers notion of a good recording everytime.

Don

Subject: RE: Credit where credit's due
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 06 Apr 99 - 01:13 PM

Bert- Squid Jigging Ground is in DigiTrad. Are you talking about another song?

Subject: RE: Credit where credit's due
From: Kathleen Morgain
Date: 06 Apr 99 - 01:48 PM

Bruce O. I could not find your name in the personal message name list, so I hope you come back to this thread.

Do you know if your 78rpm Ed McCurdy "American Folksongs" is available in any other format?

Since discovering the 'Cat I find myself tracking down artists mentioned here like a long starving person. There's an ocean of recorded "folk music" out there, but I need help to find the gems....I suspect many others like me lurk here...

-Kathleen

Subject: RE: Credit where credit's due
From: Bert
Date: 06 Apr 99 - 02:13 PM

Dick,

Yes it's a different song. To the tune of Villikins and his Dinah.

It starts off
The crabs are all caught and the squids are all jigged
The traps are caught up and the schooner's unrigged.

I can only remember snatches here and there but it's a good song (And I know the chords)

Bert.

Subject: RE: Credit where credit's due
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 06 Apr 99 - 02:25 PM

Oh did I ever! While playing at the "Turtle Hill" Festival, near Rochester New York, I (almost) accidentally heard local singer guitarist Freddie Vine. He is the finest acoustic blues player I've ever seen. He is derivative (as are all who play this music) out of respect for the players he obviously loved. The songs of Blind Boy Fuller, Bill Broonzy, Tampa Red etc. jumped to life on that stage. The guy is world class, and totally unknown (even to many in his home town) That's what I love about folk music..you'll never get a swelled head! (unless the swelling's there to begin with!)

Subject: RE: Credit where credit's due
From: The Shambles
Date: 06 Apr 99 - 02:35 PM

Don

Just to agree with you and repeat what I said about John Denver in another thread. I was dragged there to see him, but he was great.

Subject: RE: Credit where credit's due
From: The Shambles
Date: 06 Apr 99 - 03:10 PM

Oh I forgot!

I also saw Dion and guitar about the same time as you and he was great too.

Subject: RE: Credit where credit's due
From: bseed(charleskratz)
Date: 06 Apr 99 - 03:24 PM

When my wife and I saw the movie "A Soldier's Story," we were totally enraptured with the music, much of it sung by Patti LaBelle--who also was musical director for the film. Unfortunately, no sound track recording has ever been released of this wonderful blues material. --seed

Subject: RE: Credit where credit's due
From: DonMeixner
Date: 06 Apr 99 - 03:34 PM

Rick,

Not to change threads mid stream but.

" He was derivative.."

Here is a phrase that i have always had issues with. Most people, not your self ofcourse, use this asa disparaging term. The movie critic said " The story was derivitive all the other films about the Gunfight at the OK Corral." How can you have a new take on an historical event that was witnessed by many. If things weren't dirivative we wouldn't have genres. A world with out:

Film Noire, Western Movies, Science Fiction, Love Poetry Erotic Muses, affordable champagne, designer knock offs, IBM clones, wax fruit, fat substitute, Miracle Whip, generic drugs, One size fits all Feed Caps, Unitarians, The list is endless... but the derivitive list seems to be the stuff that spice to life.

Oh yes, and folk music in all shapes , stripes, and styles.

Don

Subject: RE: Credit where credit's due
From: Bruce O.
Date: 06 Apr 99 - 03:44 PM

Kathleen, I have now idea as to whether the recording is found elsewhere. I wouldn't even know how to start looking, since the singer's name wasn't given. The recording was Sutton SSU 265. A few other songs on it were Drummer Boy of Waterloo, Book [Back]Bay Hill, Jack was every inch a sailor, Good Ship Jubille, Trinity Cake (Miss Fogarty's- Irish?). Drymin Down must have been gotten from the collectors field recordings, because McCurdy's version, from a former sea captin, mayor of Vancouver, B. C. when collected, wasn't printed with it's tune until many years later.

Subject: RE: Credit where credit's due
From: Roger in Baltimore
Date: 06 Apr 99 - 08:24 PM

Hold your breath everyone. I went to see Three Dog Night in concert while I was in the Army, not because I was so enamored with the group, but because it was the only concert ever within 120 miles.

I was blown away with the harmonies, the energy and the professionalism of not just the singers, but the whole band. I went to see them two other times and dragged friends along kicking and screaming who could not believe they would enjoy the show. I was always thanked by those who came grudgingly.

Sure it ain't folk, but you did ask.

Roger in Baltimore

Subject: RE: Credit where credit's due
From: catspaw49
Date: 06 Apr 99 - 09:21 PM

I generally get what I expect and when Karen wanted to see "Bare Naked Ladies" I figured I could take it. I wasn't totally in love with what I'd heard but it was tolerable. And after the hours she's spent listening to folkies I owed it to her. She now really does enjoy lots of folk types. But a real concert in a real big venue with real popular rockers, etc. Well it HAD BEEN a long time........

On the same concert was "Blues Traveller" and I could not have been more disappointed. Just hideous!!! On the other hand, "Bare Naked Ladies" were just a gas. In every way, I couldn't have been more surprised. And that includes their stage presence...the audience was really involved and I found myself smiling and carried along with the enthusiasm. Why else do we go to a pop concert? I WAS ENTERTAINED!!!

Works for me. catspaw

Subject: RE: Credit where credit's due
From: katlaughing
Date: 07 Apr 99 - 12:15 AM

'Spaw, I love Bare Naked Ladies! Their latest CD,"Stunt" has some really good songs, in fact I posted a lullaby from it to the Music Therapy thread.

But, tell me: were they really nekkid? And, could you tell their gender?***BG***

katlaughing

Subject: RE: Credit where credit's due
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 07 Apr 99 - 12:46 AM

Great point Don! You're right, the word derivative IS often used as a perjoritive. Usually, I suspect, when the person writing or speaking, has just flat out disliked the performer (or the play, or film etc.) and wants an easy way into a bad review. When I played tapes of Freddie to my folk friends, in an effort to try and get him a gig or two in Toronto, most said (or implied) "So what? He sounds like Big Bill, or Blind Blake." Of course that's where I get perturbed. So do Stefan Grossman, Paul Geremia, Andy Cohen, John Hammond jr. Roy Bookbinder etc. This guy plays the notes better, doesn't side step the really hard passages, and MAKES IT SWING LIKE THE ORIGINALS!! (which can't be said of the others all the time) I'm probably being unfair to to my friends who weren't as turned on as I was. When I hear music, I hear it as someone who has played constantly for many years, and I listen for a lot of technical nuances AND feel.

So, may have used "derivative" incorrectly, but sure didn't mean it negatively. By the way had a similar Paul Seibel experience..and reaction!

Subject: RE: Credit where credit's due
From: catspaw49
Date: 07 Apr 99 - 01:24 AM

Geez Rick...talk about me!!!!!

..."derivative........as a perjoritive"????????????

On second thought, you may not view the movie!!! Please read "Atlas Shrugged" in it's entirety and have a report back to me by Thursday at 10 AM (or send in your unread copy of "Cliff's Notes" which will do).

catspaw

Subject: RE: Credit where credit's due
From: Don Meixner
Date: 07 Apr 99 - 09:43 PM

Paw,

I read Atlas Shrugged. I still don't know why. I also read The Fountainhead and I saw the movie, The movie is shorter. Best reason to see the film is the meeting between Howard Roark and Ellsworth Twooey

"I wonder what you think of me Mr. Roark?" "Thats just it Mr. Twooey, I don't think of you."

Don

Subject: RE: Credit where credit's due
From: Ronn
Date: 07 Apr 99 - 11:35 PM

Regarding the nehative conotations of the word derivative: This is a true story--I witnessed the exchange first-hand. It's no secret that just about every electric guitar player of the last 40 years or so is at some level influenced by B.B. King. It should therefore be no insult to his memory to suggest that in the 60's & 70's the late Luther Allison played VERY much in B.B.'s style. At a club in Milwaukee in 1974 or 75, Luther was approached between sets by a guy trying to be impressive by loudly proclaiming, "You aint shit! All you're doing is playing just like B.B. King!" Luther gave him the hairy eyeball for about 10 seconds and then calmly handed the guy his guitar and said, "Okay, YOU go up there and play just like B.B. King!"

Subject: RE: Credit where credit's due
From: harpgirl
Date: 08 Apr 99 - 12:02 AM

Geez you guys...I thought everything but the Big Bang was derivative????? harpgirl

Subject: RE: Credit where credit's due
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 08 Apr 99 - 12:28 AM

I promise never to use the word again.

Will someone please explain Ayn Rand to me (in NO MORE than 3 sentences!) I thought they were talking about Charles Atlas! I've neither read her books, seen the movies, or even the "Classic Comics" version. I'm sorry, you can't be up on everything.

Subject: RE: Credit where credit's due
From: DonMeixner
Date: 08 Apr 99 - 12:31 AM

I can explain Ayn Rand's phylosophy in 11 words,

"Me, me, its all mine and I don't have to share."

Don

Subject: RE: Credit where credit's due
From: catspaw49
Date: 08 Apr 99 - 03:10 AM

WHAT??? We're going for fewest words?

Got Mine---Get Yours---Bugger Off

catspaw

Subject: RE: Credit where credit's due
From: AlistairUK
Date: 08 Apr 99 - 08:58 AM

Even better....SOD YOU!.

Subject: RE: Credit where credit's due
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 08 Apr 99 - 11:41 AM

Hmmm, if that's the consensus, I don't think I'll be ordering her collected works!

Subject: RE: Credit where credit's due
From: AlistairUK
Date: 08 Apr 99 - 12:03 PM

Rick: She is actually well worth reading. Just to get a perspective on different ideas, but I always read a good dose of Chomsky afterwards to equalise myself a bit.

Subject: RE: Credit where credit's due
From: DonMeixner
Date: 08 Apr 99 - 12:48 PM

Alistair,

How about. " :-PPPPPPPPPPP"

Don

Subject: RE: Credit where credit's due
From: AlistairUK
Date: 08 Apr 99 - 12:53 PM

hahahahaha

even :op~~

Subject: RE: Credit where credit's due
From: Bert
Date: 08 Apr 99 - 01:08 PM

"I'm alright Jack"

Subject: RE: Credit where credit's due
From: BK
Date: 08 Apr 99 - 11:53 PM

I saw joan Baez in houston. Got there early. That night she put out conspicuously little effort; VERY disappointed. (Ditto for the so-called "Mamas & Papas" recently)

Later, in DC metroplex, went to a concert w/mult acts. Wife dragged me to catch the first act. I was tired, didn't want to be hurried, that act "wasn't folk," etc.. etc.. etc... The act was "Sanders, Cass & White." They were spectacular, I was blown away by both the performing & the songs they chose or wrote; beautiful harmonies, of course. Always tried to get there early for their performances after that. Taught me a lesson, again...

My adult supervisor (wife) often helps me be more open..

Cheers, BK

Subject: RE: Credit where credit's due
From: Joe Offer
Date: 09 Apr 99 - 02:29 PM

BK, I saw Joan Baez a couple of years ago, and I fully expected her to be pretentious and strident. She wasn't. She showed a great sense of humor, and wasn't afraid to poke fun at herself. I haven't been impressed with her recent recordings; but in concert, she chose interesting songs and sang them well. She had been taking care of her son's dog, and the dog joined her on stage for the lst few songs - a nice touch.
Don't ask about the Bob Dylan concert I attended. He treated the audience like they were dirt. I had the same experience with Shawn Colvin. My own son had an attitude like that when he started performing with his punk band - I guess he thought that was what performers were supposed to do.
But the Joan Baez concert was very enjoyable.
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: Credit where credit's due
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 09 Apr 99 - 07:40 PM

Hi Joe, re: your Dylan and Colvin comment. Where do you think this attitude comes from? It's still an absolute mystery to me. Now granted, in some ways I was an old fart when I was 18, but I always thought that having a few folks listen to the music you play was/is a huge kick, and something to be appreciated. I'm not talking about those times when you face an audience of noisy drunks (I've been told I can get very sarcastic with attitude aplenty in that kind of situation) No, these performers are in their element, and have won the respect and approval of the audience before they've played a note. So where's the pay-off in dissing (wow, I've finally used that word) your fans? I saw Dylan 30 years ago, and he didn't speak one word to the 3000 people who had come out. Did most of the audience actually gain MORE respect for him because of his (supposed) arrogance, and only a few (like me) wonder why it was neccessary? Usually have an opinion on most things, but this one stumps me.

Subject: RE: Credit where credit's due
From: catspaw49
Date: 09 Apr 99 - 08:10 PM

And Dylan is doing tour dates with Paul Simon? This is true isn't it or a bizarro dream.??!!??

catspaw

Subject: RE: Credit where credit's due
From: AlistairUK
Date: 10 Apr 99 - 10:35 AM

I think it's a search for a legitimacy as a peoples performer, which our Bob hasn't been for a long time. I mean he's supported the Stones and now Paul Simon...sheesh.

Subject: RE: Credit where credit's due
From: Peter T.
Date: 11 Apr 99 - 05:37 PM

My take on the theme is somebody doing something well who you have always thought was slop, or some other epithet (fill in your blank). I was amazed to hear an album of Anne Murray's called "Crooning" which is an impeccably done collection of standards (released in the mid-1990's, before the latest fad for the 50's). I have always hated her voice, her styling, and so on; but this is really superb -- better than anything Linda Ronstadt or any of the other pseudo-crooners have put out.

Yours, Peter T.

Subject: RE: Credit where credit's due
From: Tucker
Date: 12 Apr 99 - 04:54 AM

Yeah, I was in a grocery store of all places and it had one of those bargain bins. As the former Mrs. shopped, I meandered through it and came up with this LP of June Tabors. I didn't know her from Adam. Anyway, that album helped respark my interest in folk/celtic music. Ironically, I don't care for a lot of June's stuff now. She's a good singer but just not what I have came to enjoy.

Subject: RE: Credit where credit's due
From: Tucker
Date: 12 Apr 99 - 05:45 AM

Y'know, I never really understood performers who showed blantant disrespect for their audiences. It's as impressive to me as the Dr.Ben Casey types. Ok, he does the job well but what a pompous a**! I had the opportunity to see Harry Chapin a month or so before he was killed. The sign in the lobby said "no cameras". The concert was great. He didn't have his band with him, only Tom his brother (make a wish). When I saw that his band wasn't there I was disappointed.....until it started. What a concert! What a hoot! Harry was great. After it was over I went down to meet him. He didn't put on airs. Harry was a nice guy. I asked him is I could take his picture with Tom. The bodyguards went ballistic but Harry laughed and said sure. Nuff said. After thought. I later bought another of his CD's. Listen to the "damn fool" comment. I hope I have you curious. It's great. Another Post Script. Many years later I watched the Hollywood Tribute to Harry Chapin......I damn near puked, sorry for the language... but Harry would have too. I couldn't watch it all. It was so plastic, so fake

Subject: RE: Credit where credit's due
From: RWilhelm
Date: 12 Apr 99 - 01:16 PM

I saw Harry Chapin in the early 70's and was surprised at how good he was. Tim Hardin was the opening act and that's who I went to see. Tim was well into his downward spiral and was self-indulgently boring everyone. Harry Chapin came out with a cello player and proceded to blow everyone away. The crowd loved him. The most memorable part was the end of the show he brought Tim Hardin back out and they jammed on "What'd I Say." It was as if Harry wanted to make sure Tim got some love too.

Subject: RE: Credit where credit's due
From: Steve Latimer
Date: 12 Apr 99 - 04:23 PM

When I was sixteen and in my Rock guitarist hero worship days, I worked part time for a market research company. One job I was asked to do was to interview patrons of the Toronto Symphony Orchestra before and after a concert at historic Massey Hall. We were given seats to the concert as part of the package. I figured that it would be a complete waste of time. The guest performer was a Russian Violinist whose name escapes me. I was completely mesmerized by the sounds that he created. His feel and intensity were out of this world. I must admit that when I tried to explain to my high schoool buddies that I truly enjoyed a Toronto Symphony Orchestra concert I was given some funny looks, but it was a special evening.