BS: Bobby Sands hunger strike film

Subject: BS: Bobby Sands hunger strike film
From: GUEST
Date: 17 May 07 - 08:33 PM

The Turner prize winning artist Steve McQueen has announced his first feature film, a film about the IRA hunger striker Bobby Sands.

The story will look at his last six weeks as he starved himself to death in the Maze prison. The film is to be called Hunger. Of the film the Director and co-writer says:

    "What I want to convey is something you can't find in books or archive, the ordinariness and extraordinariness of life in this prison. Yet also the film is an abstraction in a certain way, a meditation on what it is like to die for a cause."

His comments do concern me because they give the feeling of an extremely romanticised story, something akin to Ghandi's hunger strike. Sands was a member of the Provisional Irish Republican Army and was implicated, although never convicted, of the bombing of the Balmoral Furniture Company and of a shoot out with the Police. It was after the shoot out he was caught trying to flee the scene with handguns in his car, one of which had been fired at the Police.

During his time in prison he led protests to try and have the prisoners political status recognised, rather than being treated as straight criminals. The protests led to the hunger strikes, during which Sands was even elected as an MP, which then caused the Government to push through an act stating that people who served more than a years jail time could not become Politicians.

Nine other IRA and INLA members who were involved in the hunger strikes also died after him. After these events the IRA received new funds and escalated their campaigns of terror.


What concerns me is that in bringing a story like this to film, if it's not handled with care and an unbiased view, that it may just spark some of the feelings that caused riots and the increased IRA activities of the time. Of course McQueen could be heading in a more level headed manner, but the comments here do seem rather romanticised.

---

Please remember to use a consistent user name when you post.
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: BS: Bobby Sands hunger strike film
From: Ebbie
Date: 17 May 07 - 09:28 PM

As an ignorant amurrican, I'm not sure, but if the British government had capitulated and recognized the cause as being political rather than criminal, mightn't the whole thing have turned out differently?

Subject: RE: BS: Bobby Sands hunger strike film
From: Big Mick
Date: 17 May 07 - 10:52 PM

I am anxious to see the movie about this brave man, a man of conviction.

Mick

Subject: RE: BS: Bobby Sands hunger strike film
From: Jean(eanjay)
Date: 18 May 07 - 03:07 AM

Thanks for reminding us about this. I also am very keen to see this film.

It is about an important part of history and I don't think that it will cause any problems.

Subject: RE: BS: Bobby Sands hunger strike film
From: skipy
Date: 18 May 07 - 06:05 AM

What a STUPID time to make a film on this subject!
Skipy

Subject: RE: BS: Bobby Sands hunger strike film
From: guitar
Date: 18 May 07 - 07:23 AM

I couldn't care less about this dickhead, I bet his last words were "I could MURDER a sandwich", I don't feel sorry for dickheads like or his ilk on either side of terroristism, because that what these people are/were murders, I mean you don't need to point a gun or use a bomb to kill someone.

Subject: RE: BS: Bobby Sands hunger strike film
From: guitar
Date: 18 May 07 - 07:35 AM

here's a wee song about these 'people'
it's called 'what kind of man'

What kind of man is he and which cause did he use
when he placed the bomb and set the fuse
did he walk away crying 'liberty'
and if he did what kind of man is he

did he sleep well that night deaf to to the dying last screams
did no bloody ghosts walk through his dreams
does he shed innocent blood as part of a grand strategy
and if he does what kind of man is he

CH
FOR ALL THE TEARS AND MOURNING
FOR ALL THOSE YOU'VE MAINED AND KILLED
FOR ALL THE MURDERED CHILDREN
GOD DAMN YOUR SOUL TO HELL

Is he a faimly man does he have any kids
will they ever understand what their father did
does he use noble wards like 'freedom from tyranny'
and if he does what kind of man is he

are you out there tonight wearing your everyman's face
do you still see yourself as part of the human race
in spite of the murders you've done and the killinf that you've yet to do
and that's why I ask what kind of man are you

From Gethsemane to Auchwitz the man with the gun
has stood between us and what we could of become
shall we be dragged back once again into barbarity
if we let them do that what kind of men are we

By Eric Bogle

Subject: RE: BS: Bobby Sands hunger strike film
From: pirandello
Date: 18 May 07 - 09:00 AM

I couldn't think of a less appropriate subject for a feature film than this non-entity. Someone above called him 'brave'. He was a murdering thug, nothing more, nothing less and the sooner he is forgotten the better for everyone.

Subject: RE: BS: Bobby Sands hunger strike film
From: SINSULL
Date: 18 May 07 - 09:13 AM

With no comment on the politics of the situation, I have always felt that this was a foolish and cowardly waste of life.

Subject: RE: BS: Bobby Sands hunger strike film
From: Jean(eanjay)
Date: 18 May 07 - 09:20 AM

Jan Younghusband, Channel 4 Commissioning Editor for Arts, said:

"Channel 4 regularly commissions new work from artists for the screen, galleries, public spaces and theatre.

Steve McQueen is an exceptional artist and filmmaker whose work in galleries has transformed our experience of the visual arts.

I am delighted to commission his first feature film which revisits, through the unique perspective of an artist, this crucial moment in Anglo-Irish history."

Subject: RE: BS: Bobby Sands hunger strike film
From: skipy
Date: 18 May 07 - 09:34 AM

Will he get his bike over the fence this time?
Skipy

Subject: RE: BS: Bobby Sands hunger strike film
From: Jean(eanjay)
Date: 18 May 07 - 09:44 AM

It's a long time since I saw that film, Skipy.

Subject: RE: BS: Bobby Sands hunger strike film
From: catspaw49
Date: 18 May 07 - 09:45 AM

Yes Skipy but he'll knock the crap out of Delgetti for getting him out of bed............

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Bobby Sands hunger strike film
From: Jean(eanjay)
Date: 18 May 07 - 09:47 AM

The film maker said the story had modern relevance.

He said: "Hunger will be a film with international contemporary resonance. The body as site of political warfare is becoming a more familiar phenomenon.

It is the final act of desperation, your own body is your last resource for protest. One uses what one has, rightly or wrongly."

Subject: RE: BS: Bobby Sands hunger strike film
From: guitar
Date: 18 May 07 - 09:50 AM

there was nothing political about it, the guy and his ilk on both sides of the 'war' were and are still murderers no more to be said I think.

Subject: RE: BS: Bobby Sands hunger strike film
From: Mr Red
Date: 18 May 07 - 09:53 AM

armalite rifles have modern relevance?

or will the lead up to the popular facts be glossed over?

balance and perspective? - hmmm.

Subject: RE: BS: Bobby Sands hunger strike film
From: guitar
Date: 18 May 07 - 10:18 AM

the nxt post is what I think of Bobby Sands

Subject: RE: BS: Bobby Sands hunger strike film
From: guitar
Date: 18 May 07 - 10:18 AM

Subject: RE: BS: Bobby Sands hunger strike film
From: guitar
Date: 18 May 07 - 10:45 AM

you're right he was a man of conviction aye flung into to jail

Subject: RE: BS: Bobby Sands hunger strike film
From: Den
Date: 18 May 07 - 10:47 AM

Well, well, well. Just dangle the carrot and out come the bigots. Just who did Bobby Sands murder? Several posters (for want of a better title) have called him a murderer. Produce your evidence, put up or shut up. It never ceases to amaze me the ammount of vitriol directed at this young man. I think a lot of you need to educate yourselves. I know for a few that's asking a lot.

Subject: RE: BS: Bobby Sands hunger strike film
From: guitar
Date: 18 May 07 - 11:53 AM

have you never heard of being an accomplice to Murder, you just need to be part of the terrorist group that's all. but why should I even talk to you because you just don't even listen.

so goodbye

Subject: RE: BS: Bobby Sands hunger strike film
From: guitar
Date: 18 May 07 - 11:55 AM

oh if he hadn't done that then why was he put into prison then.

Subject: RE: BS: Bobby Sands hunger strike film
From: guitar
Date: 18 May 07 - 11:57 AM

the next post after this is like the inside of your head (empty)

goodbye

Subject: RE: BS: Bobby Sands hunger strike film
From: guitar
Date: 18 May 07 - 11:57 AM

Subject: RE: BS: Bobby Sands hunger strike film
From: guitar
Date: 18 May 07 - 12:02 PM

I copied this from a website, some friendYour continued donations keep Wikipedia running! Bobby Sands
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Cut and paste articles are limited to the amount of text that will fill one computer screen of average size. Please learn and use links. There are instructions in the FAQ. Mudleprechuan

Subject: RE: BS: Bobby Sands hunger strike film
From: guitar
Date: 18 May 07 - 12:19 PM

let me ask you one more question and that why if he a member of a terroist group then why do he have guns in his house, unless he was intending to us them, I mean not to go and shoot birds.

Anyway let bygones be bygones.

let's not argue over this I know your view and I know my view let's agree to disagree

Subject: RE: BS: Bobby Sands hunger strike film
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 18 May 07 - 12:29 PM

Some peoples computers should have the cut and paste key confiscated - til they can use it responsibly.

Every cause is allowed its ikons and martyrs and Bobby Sands will always be an important one for Irish republicans of a certain turn of mind.

People opposed to these views should show some respect for what was a tragic, albeit history changing death of a young man.

Sands supporters (particularly those outside the UK) should understand that his death lead to the murder of dozens of people in Northern Ireland in the immediate aftermath - reprisals, and reprisals for reprisals. These people all had families who loved them - just occasionally a degree of sensitivity would not not go amiss.

Subject: RE: BS: Bobby Sands hunger strike film
From: Den
Date: 18 May 07 - 01:12 PM

Six posts and still no evidence of murder. Did you even read any of the information you cluttered the place up with. Finally if Wikipedia is the extent of your research capabilities then that says more about your empty head than mine.

Subject: RE: BS: Bobby Sands hunger strike film
From: Greg B
Date: 18 May 07 - 01:18 PM

If Gerry and Ian had just done 30 years earlier what they
did in the last few weeks, this whole discussion might not
have happened and Bobby Sands might be a panel beater who
found his way into local politics and whose greatest worry
was whether or not to put a roundabout at the north end of
town.

Subject: RE: BS: Bobby Sands hunger strike film
From: Den
Date: 18 May 07 - 01:22 PM

Ah but Greg B, if if's, and and's were pots and pans, there be no need for tinkers.

Subject: RE: BS: Bobby Sands hunger strike film
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 18 May 07 - 04:07 PM

Den - even if he had killed someone, it would claimed as a legitimate target. It didn't seem to make much difference in those days to the interested parties - except when the other side did it and then it was bloody murder.

The Hunger Strike was seen as an exercise rather like 1916, probably a failure but some thing which would change things forever. It must have been obvious to Bobby Sands that innocent people were going to be killed in the wake of his death.

That may not be murder, but then Thatcher didn't actually squeeze any triggers.

Subject: RE: BS: Bobby Sands hunger strike film
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 18 May 07 - 04:08 PM

Den, Guitar is a very easy target for your wit.
His views are blunt and simplistic, but he is not the bigot you say he is.
He did make clear that he felt the same about both sides.

B.S. was not convicted of murder, but you will not dispute that he was a very active IRA volunteer.
As a volunteer he would expect to be ordered to kill people from time to time.
You would not regard that as murder Den, but many do.

Subject: RE: BS: Bobby Sands hunger strike film
From: Den
Date: 18 May 07 - 05:53 PM

WLD there's the "if" word again. Several people above accused Sands of murder outright, no if's and's, or but's. I merely asked for proof. There is none. Unlike his detractors I know people who knew Sands, well. Of the two camps, and bearing in mind the tone of the discussion here to date I prefer to take the word of the latter.

How could Sands possibly know what would transpire after he was dead? That would appear to be conjecture.

I was waiting for your arrival Keith. What took you so long? Now where do we start with your post? Please define, "very active IRA volunteer." Now be careful with your answer Keith your track record on here is questionable in matters pertaining to our wee province you won't get all your answers on google and please what do you know about my beliefs in regard to what is or isn't murder?

Wit or no Mr. Guitar certainly nails his colours to the mast. You don't see them the way I do. Does that make me wrong?

And now I am off out to a wine tasting. I hope everyone has a pleasant evening in my absence.

Subject: RE: BS: Bobby Sands hunger strike film
From: Den
Date: 18 May 07 - 05:58 PM

Good thing I checked my post before I left or I would have missed the two enlightened posts after Keith's. Now I wonder which particular Guest, of the many that regularly post here, could this be? LOL

Subject: RE: BS: Bobby Sands hunger strike film
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 18 May 07 - 07:18 PM

I'd say it was a pretty safe conjecture, Den. he knew he was making history. He must have had some inkling of what was going to happen. He would hardly have given his life if the whole thing had not been orchestrated. He knew what that involved. He wasn't a naive.

You're absolutely right about one thing though. No one should be accused of stuff they just MIGHT have done in this fashion.

Mind you that would bring the Jack the Ripper industry grinding to a standstill. No more books, documentaries etc.

I suppose its in the nature of things that guerilla warriors activities are shrouded in mystery. In the recent TV documentary about Padraig Pearse, the presenter of the programme was saying that we know remarkably little about many of the leaders of 1916 because their activities were secret. Perhaps the happenings of more recent times will turn out to have been better documented.

Subject: RE: BS: Bobby Sands hunger strike film
From: guitar
Date: 19 May 07 - 03:32 AM

Den why don't you put up or shut up, because that two times you have been asked, and I'll ask you one more time and then I'll stop because I'll know that I won't get an answer why then if Bobby Sands a member of the IRA have guns in his house if he wasn't going to use them if ordered.

Subject: RE: BS: Bobby Sands hunger strike film
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 19 May 07 - 05:23 AM

Den, some people call all IRA killings murder, and some regard them as legal executions and accidents.
I did assume that you were with the latter.
I am sorry for that.
I also did assume that B.S. was an IRA fighter and so a participator in the armed struggle.
What do I know?
Are you correcting me on that?

Subject: RE: BS: Bobby Sands hunger strike film
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 19 May 07 - 05:24 AM

you've got the equipment guitar - it doesn't mean you're guilty of rape.

I bet you intend to use it now and then.

Subject: RE: BS: Bobby Sands hunger strike film
From: guitar
Date: 19 May 07 - 06:37 AM

I'm a eunoch so I can't really can I, anyway what has this got to do with IRA 'man'Bobby sands

Subject: RE: BS: Bobby Sands hunger strike film
From: guitar
Date: 19 May 07 - 06:40 AM

Only kidding, but I don't devaulge in having sex, because I just don't really not that kind of guy really and I suppose it's true wrong again sorry.

I just don't like the Republican or Loyalist terrorist groups or any other terrorist groups for that matter please ignore te last post I made now I'll leaving this post because it's becoming a bit personal.

so let us all agree to disagree

Subject: RE: BS: Bobby Sands hunger strike film
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 19 May 07 - 07:13 AM

Den, I know you do not approve of Google searches, but this is relevant.
At eighteen years of age Bobby joined the Republican Movement. In an article he wrote for Republican News he said: "My life now centred around sleepless nights and stand-bys, dodging the Brits and calming nerves to go out on operations.

Subject: RE: BS: Bobby Sands hunger strike film
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 19 May 07 - 07:51 AM

Keith, what exactly are you hoping for?

You are tearing yourself to bits looking for an admission of guilt that is not going to come.

a) they don't feel guilty
b) yielding ground isn't in the battle orders for the day

Whatever the truth is, we are not privvy to it. End of story. We can have our private suspicions, but that's what they must remain.

Subject: RE: BS: Bobby Sands hunger strike film
From: Big Mick
Date: 19 May 07 - 08:18 AM

Why would they feel guilty. You may not approve of the guerilla tactics, but where the North of Ireland is today did not come about because Her Majesty's government woke up one morning and decided they would end centuries worth of oppression. Whether we like it or not, these things happen because someone had the stones to continue the fight until it became necessary to deal with them. Many mistakes were made, many sad stories written. But that is the way of it.

Now it is time to move this process forward. Sinn Fein will continue on with the next step which is the reunification of Ireland.

Can you not applaud the actions of McGuinness and Adams in changing the course and getting us to this point? Paisley had to be dragged to it. But these two men had to walk the thin line between radicals in their own constituency and the politics of the North.

Ramble off,

Mick

Subject: RE: BS: Bobby Sands hunger strike film
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 19 May 07 - 08:37 AM

A lot of innocent (many uninvolved) people were murdered, as a totally predictable direct result.

Some people would find that a source of guilt. In fact it says quite a lot about you in my book, if you don't.

Subject: RE: BS: Bobby Sands hunger strike film
From: guitar
Date: 19 May 07 - 08:49 AM

I don't even talk to these people because I ahve no time for them on both sides of the 'war' in Northern Ireland, be they protestant or Catholic I could care because to many people have been killed. 3000 people have been killed because prtestants and Catholics don't sit down and talk.

Subject: RE: BS: Bobby Sands hunger strike film
From: guitar
Date: 19 May 07 - 09:03 AM

this is a song by Bobby Darin

I like it because it is an anti-war song and also the last verse which is I dedicate to Gerry Adams and Ian Paisley.
Come and sing a simple song of freedom
      Sing it like you've never sung before
      Let it fill the air
      Tell the people everywhere
      We, the people here, don't want a war.

      Hey, there, mister black man, can you hear me?
      I don't want your diamonds or your game
      I just want to be someone known to you as me
      And I will bet my life you want the same.

      Come and sing a simple song of freedom
      Sing it like you've never sung before
      Let it fill the air
      Tell the people everywhere
      We, the people here, don't want a war.

      Seven hundred million are ya list'nin'?
      Most of what you read is made of lies
      But, speakin' one to one ain't it everybody's sun
      To wake to in the mornin' when we rise?

      Come and sing a simple song of freedom
      Sing it like you've never sung before
      Let it fill the air
      Tell the people everywhere
      We, the people here, don't want a war.

      Brother Solzhenitsyn, are you busy?
      If not, won't you drop this friend a line
      Tell me if the man who is plowin' up your land
      Has got the war machine upon his mind?

      Come and sing a simple song of freedom
      Sing it like you've never sung before
      Let it fill the air
      Tell the people everywhere
      We, the people here, don't want a war.

      Now, no doubt some folks enjoy doin' battle
      Like presidents, prime ministers and kings
      So, let's all build them shelves
      Where they can fight among themselves
      Leave the people be who love to sing.

      Come and sing a simple song of freedom
      Sing it like you've never sung before
      Let it fill the air
      Tell the people everywhere
      We, the people here, don't want a war.

      I say … let it fill the air …
      Tellin' people everywhere …
      We, the people here, don't want a war.

Subject: RE: BS: Bobby Sands hunger strike film
From: Jean(eanjay)
Date: 19 May 07 - 10:12 AM

Guitar, I always liked Bobby Darin but I've never heard that song before. Thanks for posting it.

Subject: RE: BS: Bobby Sands hunger strike film
From: Big Mick
Date: 19 May 07 - 10:13 AM

WLD, then I am sure you will condemn the killing of Carol Ann Kelly, 12, who was deliberately shot in the head and murdered with a plastic bullet fired by a British soldier. She was walking back from a house shop no more than 100 yards from her home with a pint of milk for her mother. She was less than 20 yards from her front door when a British soldier, about 15 yards away, aimed and shot her in the head. She died three days later on 22 May 1981.

The point is that many sad stories have been written during this time. Many of you folks want the IRA soldiers to express guilt and remorse. I have yet to hear many of you ask the same of the British military. Pat Finucane ring a bell?

Peace has arrived in the North OF Ireland. Renunification will follow soon.

Slan abhaile,

Mick

Subject: RE: BS: Bobby Sands hunger strike film
From: Jean(eanjay)
Date: 19 May 07 - 10:26 AM

Peace has arrived in the North of Ireland and things are looking very positve.

I cannot see that this film will jeopardise that and it will be of interest to many people.

In the Maze prison thread it was difficult to convince some that it was an important part of history. This film is about a piece of that history and whether we agree with what went on or not it is still of interest.

Subject: RE: BS: Bobby Sands hunger strike film
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 19 May 07 - 01:44 PM

WLD, I was not hoping for anything.
I was trying to say that BS was a hero or a murderer depending on your perspective.
My last was in reply to Den who challenged that BS was even an IRA activist at all.

Big Mick, do you remember that we discussed this before? About why the army was there at all? About which side killed thousands more innocents like Carol Ann than the other?
Let us not go there again.
All the best,
keith.