Strictly Come Folk Dancing?

Subject: RE: Strictly Come Folk Dancing?
From: Folkiedave
Date: 08 Jun 07 - 04:19 AM

I am afraid we will have to differ on this one Kitty.

If it looks difficult in public people (I would have thought) might prefer to practise in private first - I know I would.

But practising in public (IMHO) is not the best way to present the public face of morris - too many teams look as if that's what they are doing anyway!!

Subject: RE: Strictly Come Folk Dancing?
From: GUEST,Crystal
Date: 08 Jun 07 - 05:24 AM

I sent a message to Feedback about the "apology" suggesting that Ms Glover tries actually dancing wirth a team before scoffing at our culture!

Subject: RE: Strictly Come Folk Dancing?
From: Snuffy
Date: 08 Jun 07 - 08:51 AM

Herbaceous Border are not practising in public - they are running an open workshop (teaching session) in public.

Subject: RE: Strictly Come Folk Dancing?
From: RogerTCB
Date: 08 Jun 07 - 09:40 AM

unlurking...
The dances should look difficult or fun or challenging or a combination of these; something to engage the audience and make them wish to be part of it.
When the dancing looks bad there's couple reasons I've surmised. One is that the side has committed to dancing but found they had insufficient experienced dancers when it came to the event. This is unfortunate but understandable. Its happen over the last 2 week to both Towersey & GUM.
A second reason is that the culture of the side is more social than performance orientated, in which case the squire is trying to keep the members happy rather than give a good display, giving everyone a go regardless of ability. This kind of performance should be kept away from the public IMHO because it looks carp.
(ducks to hide from flames)

Subject: RE: Strictly Come Folk Dancing?
From: GUEST,A Lurker
Date: 08 Jun 07 - 11:01 AM

"the culture of the side is more social than performance orientated, in which case the squire is trying to keep the members happy rather than give a good display, giving everyone a go regardless of ability."

As a member of a side like this I have to agree to some extent. We have one member who cannot learn even the most simple steps, but we are over a barrel and have to let them dance out with us (long story).
Sadly the sides standard of performence has suffered greatly and some of our experienced dancers now refuse to dance out with us. But we try to have fun, and include a mixture of dances to our repitior.

Subject: RE: Strictly Come Folk Dancing?
From: Herga Kitty
Date: 08 Jun 07 - 02:49 PM

There obviously is an issue about presentation - established sides that are dancing at a festival for display (especially if they're booked sides, but also if they're just busking) ought to be well-rehearsed, and so should scratch sides if they're in a procession. But I think it's OK to hold an open public workshop, when that's what it's advertised and announced as - a bit like inviting members of the public to join in dancing BGG.

Kitty

(I didn't know about Fi Glover in time to hear the item, because I was at Chippenham that weekend)

Subject: RE: Strictly Come Folk Dancing?
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 08 Jun 07 - 02:57 PM

I was at Chippenham that weekend

Well, indeed, as I said much higher up, I imagine the item was timed to coincide with Bampton on the 28th, and Saturday Live was on the replayer up to and including 2 June.

The thing about Chip + Bampton following each other reminds me of a question I was once asked about doing both, and by a scenic route to boot. I said that this would involve driving blindfold through Swindon.

Subject: RE: Strictly Come Folk Dancing?
From: manitas_at_work
Date: 11 Jun 07 - 11:53 AM

You could go through Marlborough or Avebury instead! Much more interesting.

Subject: RE: Strictly Come Folk Dancing?
From: Folkiedave
Date: 11 Jun 07 - 12:20 PM

If what is happening is asking the public to come along and have go at dancing then IMHO there should be a number of quality, well-rehearsed dancers there along with quality well-rehearsed musicians who both (dancers and musicians) know what they are doing.

But this was an appeal for dancers and musicians to come and join in an unrehearsed public performance - even if the public are being asked to join in at some point. Are they being asked to join in immediately? Is there a show first and then they are asked to join in after a demonstration - which seems to me to be the most likely. Who then does the show? Have they rehearsed?

Otherwise it seems to me that you have the partially-sighted leading the blind!!

Subject: RE: Strictly Come Folk Dancing?
From: Snuffy
Date: 12 Jun 07 - 08:34 AM

" the partially-sighted leading the blind" ... while the blinkered refuse to see?

Subject: RE: Strictly Come Folk Dancing?
From: Folkiedave
Date: 12 Jun 07 - 08:51 AM

Snuffy - do tell me what I am missing........

Subject: RE: Strictly Come Folk Dancing?
From: Snuffy
Date: 12 Jun 07 - 10:56 AM

How would I know? I'm one of the blind who can't see the irrepareable harm we're doing.

Subject: RE: Strictly Come Folk Dancing?
From: Folkiedave
Date: 12 Jun 07 - 11:05 AM

And then you would not be able to see the good others are doing either!!

Subject: RE: Strictly Come Folk Dancing?
From: Snuffy
Date: 13 Jun 07 - 04:06 AM

I can see the good both in informal "outreach" events, and in performances of a professional standard. Can you see both?

Folk should include both the pub singaround and the Watersons at the Albert Hall. Neither of these "harms" folk - they are folk.

Subject: RE: Strictly Come Folk Dancing?
From: AlexB
Date: 13 Jun 07 - 07:43 AM

Folkiedave, Sue teaches the dance, walking people through the steps, and then they run through it. There are several people there who are regulars and know the dances and help the others as they go.

The point is to show the public that it is fun. Herbaceous is not so much a display side, so don't hold it up as one. If it gets the public joining in, having fun and interested in dancing, then it is doing good work. And I believe it does do those things.

Subject: RE: Strictly Come Folk Dancing?
From: Sue the Borderer
Date: 13 Jun 07 - 11:04 AM

Hi Folkiedave
I've just had this thread pointed out to me. I'm interested in how strongly you feel that what we are doing as Herbaceous Border is damaging to the image of morris.

I, too, dance with a 'proper side' which practices hard all winter and aims to get the balance right between dancing really well, enjoying ourselves and entertaining the public. (Can't find the previous thread on this topic.)

People come to 'the morris' by different routes. Mine was by first getting involved with Herbaceous Border - and quite a number of other people do too.

Recently a morris dancer in full kit came up to me at a Festival and said "I must thank you! I've been dancing a while and I've kept trying to get my partner to come along to a practice night or a workshop and he always refused. Then, last year when we saw Herbaceous on the street he came and had a go. He enjoyed it so much he's joined the side and dances regularly." (Enter partner stage right, also in full morris kit.)
Sorry - it sounds like a slushy magazine story, but I promise you it's true.

Other typical comments include "I've been watching the dancing all weekend (or even 'for years') and it's brilliant to get the chance to have a go." This may be followed by "I've only done one dance and I'm shattered. You folks dance all day - you must be fit! I promise I'll never take the p*ss out of morris dancers again."

There may well be a few people in the crowd whose negative image of morris dancing is reinforced by what we are doing, but I think the majority can tell the difference between the skilled, slick display side and the simple basic dances that we do as part of an on-the-street workshop. What the two have in common is that they are both done with enjoyment, energy and enthusiasm...... which is catching!

Subject: RE: Strictly Come Folk Dancing?
From: Herga Kitty
Date: 13 Jun 07 - 03:00 PM

I've missed Bampton for several years because I was hosting singarounds in Chippenham - so it was good to see a Bampton side dancing in Chippenham on the Saturday. When I asked Dave Spiers whether it was Arnold's side or Francis's side he told me it appeared to be a mixture of both.

Kitty

Subject: RE: Strictly Come Folk Dancing?
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 13 Jun 07 - 03:10 PM

it was indeed!

Subject: RE: Strictly Come Folk Dancing?
From: Folkiedave
Date: 13 Jun 07 - 03:46 PM

I can see the point (though I would probably disagree with) of an "on-the-street workshop" - Sheffield City Morris have always (when appropriate) give the public chance to have a go. Last week Sheffield held its annual "Chance to Dance" designed exactly for that purpose and people were able to try all sorts of dancing including Morris. We have also run workshops both at UK festivals and at foreign festivals where (especially) it is often part of the work a team is asked to do.

I happen to think the proper place for a total "workshop" is outside the public gaze but if it is clear that that is what you are doing then it has its good points as you mention. Of course those turned off might not approach you and those who think like Fi GLover will undoubtedly have their prejudices reinforced. They are not likely to say so either.

But your plea on this board was not for the public, it was for people who read this and will be at a Festival to come and join you - not the public but dancers and musicians.

Now I am not sure what they are joining - but it is clearly not a practised side and I can see why you might need a musician but if you are teaching some sort of morris dancing from scratch then I think a demonstration side ought to have more to offer than people who happen to be at a festival.

Of course if you are teaching Border with to strangers then you have thought what might happen if a member of the public hurts another member of the public with a stick!! I once spent an unhappy couple of hours in hospital with (as it happens) a fellow dancer where a piece of stick flew off, smashed into his glasses and could easily have blinded him. So it does happen.

To Snuffy
Yes of course I can see the difference between the RAH and I enjoy them both.

Subject: RE: Strictly Come Folk Dancing?
From: Rattler
Date: 13 Jun 07 - 07:31 PM

I'm sure Sue will reply but be assured that Herbaceous has insurance like other Morris sides. That there have been no serious incidents to date may reflect the standard of instruction.

Subject: RE: Strictly Come Folk Dancing?
From: Folkiedave
Date: 14 Jun 07 - 05:09 AM

I'd seriously suggest you check the terms of that insurance - if you haven't done so already.

Inviting the unpractised public to "come and have a go" is not the same as insuring a practised side against accidents.