Tech: Why Can't a USB Just Be a USB!?

Subject: Tech: Why Can't a USB Just Be a USB!?
From: wysiwyg
Date: 27 May 07 - 09:13 AM

Aaaarghhhh! [insert infinity of multiple ! marks here]

Oh sure, ONE end fits the puder, but the OTHER end isn't universal at all, and I'm pissed off about it! I have three sticking out of my puder now, all different. One for the camera, another for one MP3 player, another for a third MP3 player. It means that if I want to update the contents of any of these while camping for three weeks, I have to pull out the CPU to get at the back to remove the one(s) I want, and pack that.

And sure, I can make my files portable-- Hardi got me a very nice 1-gig flash drive for my birthday. But can I plug from that into any of these portable media thingies? No, of course not, unless we pack the laptop, because none of the devices have software interfaces! All I need is a file-manager, and I have to tote a laptop bought heavy for the bigger monitor? No, I guess I'll have to look for a cheap, used notebook that will do the interface!

Am I missing something?

~Susan

Subject: RE: Tech: Why Can't a USB Just Be a USB!?
From: Waddon Pete
Date: 27 May 07 - 09:35 AM

Hello,

Have you though about a USB docking device?   These are quite cheap and mean you won't have to keep moving the CPU to get to the USB ports!

Best wishes,

Peter

Subject: RE: Tech: Why Can't a USB Just Be a USB!?
From: mack/misophist
Date: 27 May 07 - 09:57 AM

Don't know about mp3 players but I do what the last person suggested to access 3 different memory cards from 3 different cameras. One reader fits all.

Subject: RE: Tech: Why Can't a USB Just Be a USB!?
From: katlaughing
Date: 27 May 07 - 10:25 AM

We've got a nice SanDisk which has four different sized ports for memory cards from camera, etc. as mack/misophist says...works well.

Subject: RE: Tech: Why Can't a USB Just Be a USB!?
From: wysiwyg
Date: 27 May 07 - 10:35 AM

Memory cards.... say more.....

Docking device.... say more.....


Just when I think I'm catching the tech wave, nope-- I'm behind it again.

Come to my house..... fix me up..... please.....!

~Susan

Subject: RE: Tech: Why Can't a USB Just Be a USB!?
From: wysiwyg
Date: 27 May 07 - 11:01 AM

OK.... if I'm gonna get some help, you'll want to know what I'm running.

The camera is fine, it has a card I lost, I know I can get another one.

Neither MP3 player has a card. One is waterproof: OSI (Oregon Scientific) MP 120. One is car-worthy: YP-T8 Z. Hardi has a PDA, says no file manager onboard. It docks to something that includes a USB port. And I have the SanDisk 1 gig flash key.

Help! But think CHEAP.

Thanks,

~Susan

Subject: RE: Tech: Why Can't a USB Just Be a USB!?
From: GUEST,Neil
Date: 27 May 07 - 11:15 AM

You can always get a USB Multi sockety so that one cable fits all

Subject: RE: Tech: Why Can't a USB Just Be a USB!?
From: EBarnacle
Date: 27 May 07 - 11:18 AM

One of my answers is to haunt garage sales and simply pick up extra USB cables. I can't quite keep up with every new style, but I'm close.

My latest quest is for a miniparallel cable for a Gateway flatscreen monitor cable to interface with my various computers. The price has to be right.

Subject: RE: Tech: Why Can't a USB Just Be a USB!?
From: Waddon Pete
Date: 27 May 07 - 11:50 AM

Hello again Susan,

If you go to Amazon and type "USB Hub" into the search box you can get an idea of what is available to solve your problem.

Wish it would stop raining!

Best wishes,

Peter

Subject: RE: Tech: Why Can't a USB Just Be a USB!?
From: wysiwyg
Date: 27 May 07 - 01:07 PM

Will a USB hub allow me to move files without a PC to use as a file manager?

~Susan

Subject: RE: Tech: Why Can't a USB Just Be a USB!?
From: wysiwyg
Date: 27 May 07 - 01:54 PM

Nope-- but unless some helpful genius cues me otherwise, I'm going to watch for a cheap USB-equipped 1 gig ancient laptop that will tempt NO ONE into doing any work or email on it when we're away. It can speak baby talk and be as slow as it likes, storing only playlist.txt's and a file manager.

~Susan

Subject: RE: Tech: Why Can't a USB Just Be a USB!?
From: Amos
Date: 27 May 07 - 01:57 PM

A USB hub allows you to plug multiple USB devices into a little carousel like device, which then plugs into the back of the computer.

Dunno about moving files between devices with out a computer in the middle, though. Some devices are built to talk to each other this way, but it's a case-by-case thing.


A

Subject: RE: Tech: Why Can't a USB Just Be a USB!?
From: Big Mick
Date: 27 May 07 - 02:06 PM

To answer the question: because then you wouldn't have to buy all the different cords and solutions.

Subject: RE: Tech: Why Can't a USB Just Be a USB!?
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 27 May 07 - 07:10 PM

In all probability, even with a USB hub, you will still need "all those cables" simply because of the multiple kinds of connectors on different devices, but with the hub plugged into one socket on the computer you can have several sockets out in front where you can just leave the cables plugged in if you like. Then the only problem will be untying all the knots and tangles to pull out the right cable to use with the device you want to plug in.

You should use the "Safely Remove Hardware" button any time you remove a device that shows there, but some devices won't even show up. If there's a problem with "losing" a device, just rebooting usually lets the computer make a new list of what's connected.

A hub also minimizes the "crosstalk" between devices that can sometimes occur when you connect more than one USB device to the same "port." Most recent computers have two ports, but may have up to 6 connectors, so it's possible to have two things plugged into the same circuit. This usually works okay, but having more logical ports, by connecting a USB bridge/port/multiplier cleans things up some - if you get a decent multiport.

Some cheaper "expanders" may give you up to 4 or 5 additional connectors, but with all of them working as a single port. Better ones will give you multiple discrete ports, but may run $30 - $60 (US) or so.

Some cameras have controls to allow the camera itself to "dump" pictures to a computer or other storage device, but many, especially cheaper ones, can't do it without a computer to manage the transfer. You'll have to RTFM to see if your camera can handle it. If not, you can just pick up a spare memory card or two for your device, and swap memory until you get back home(?). With GB sized memory modules available (at a price) some camera users I've run into carry around several hundred pictures and still haven't figured out that they can offload them.

A few "thumb drives" claim to include built-in file manager utilties that allow the "thumb" to retrieve/exchange files from any device with a USB connector; but reports are that performance is "variable" and may depend on matching the memory device to the specific thing you want to use it with. You'll need to do some investigating for yourself to see if something of this kind is worth looking at for the equipment you have.

If you have "friends" where you're out and about, probably someone in the vicinity has a laptop and can burn a CD of your "exchangeable" files? - if you have the necessary cables/connectors. (This solution may be "unreliable" and involves the risk that the friend may see your pictures?)

John

Subject: RE: Tech: Why Can't a USB Just Be a USB!?
From: wysiwyg
Date: 27 May 07 - 08:29 PM

At issue are music and oldtime radio files. Pix, schmix.... we went camera-less for the first time ever for either of us, for last year's vacay, and we discovered that we liked not taking pictures, for a change! :~) We just want to be able to swap in different folders full of sound files. Some destinations include friendly computers, some don't-- it would be better (if cheap enough) to manage without help when and as we wish. (We get kinda hermittish on vacay.)

~Susan

Subject: RE: Tech: Why Can't a USB Just Be a USB!?
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 27 May 07 - 08:35 PM

Someone thought of that when they built our computer - it has USB ports on the front where you don't have to haul the thing out and turn it round to plug stuff in. After that, it's simply a matter of labelling the cables with sticky labels or colour coded tapes. If you can live without pictures, try living without piped music for a change... it's incredible the difference it makes.

LTS

Subject: RE: Tech: Why Can't a USB Just Be a USB!?
From: wysiwyg
Date: 27 May 07 - 08:41 PM

Good grief, I don't need advice on how to vacation, I need TECH help.

And yes, we have a few front ports, but the back ones are faster.

~S~

Subject: RE: Tech: Why Can't a USB Just Be a USB!?
From: elfcape
Date: 27 May 07 - 08:50 PM

USB is USB. The problem is on the other end of the cable. That's because proprietary design is more important than consumer satisfaction in the industry.

Subject: RE: Tech: Why Can't a USB Just Be a USB!?
From: Grab
Date: 27 May 07 - 08:56 PM

Mini-USB is fairly standard these days for connecting to portable stuff. Most manufacturers have figured out that proprietary cables aren't worth it.

I have to pull out the CPU to get at the back to remove the one(s) I want

More recent PCs have USB ports on the front. If yours doesn't and you've got a free drive bay, $20 at most will get you a suitable USB card with front-panel sockets. Or get a USB hub as suggested above, which will give you a bunch of USB sockets which you can position somewhere convenient to avoid moving your PC. It's like power sockets in your home - if you find you don't have enough, you can add another socket in the wall at the cost of some technical stuff taking place, or you can run a multiway extension from an existing socket if you accept slightly lower performance. Or you can live with having to move the sofa every time you want to plug in the vacuum...

Graham.

Subject: RE: Tech: Why Can't a USB Just Be a USB!?
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 27 May 07 - 09:03 PM

Or just don't vacuum....

LTS

Subject: RE: Tech: Why Can't a USB Just Be a USB!?
From: kerryguy7
Date: 27 May 07 - 09:06 PM

Have you tried a simple portable mini drive??
These are small, USB devices that you simply plug into your computer, download or upload the files you want to move to another computer. They come in various "sizes" from 256 megs all the way up to 4 gigs!
They are tiny also...they simply look like small "sticks", for lack of a better description.
Just ask in any electronics store for "thumb drives" or, as they are sometimes called, mini storage drives. Memorex, Sandisk, Pny, etc. are all brands that are out there on the market.
They are simply wonderful for moving files and for easy backups as well.
Hope that helps!

Subject: RE: Tech: Why Can't a USB Just Be a USB!?
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 28 May 07 - 03:37 AM

As some have noted, USB is just USB, but there are several "standard" connectors and a few odballs.

A PCMCIA Card, that looks like a fat credit card that you plug into your laptop to add memory, provide an ethernet port or WiFi antenna, get a spare parallel or serial port, etc., is a USB device, but uses a 68-pin connector.

A "second generation" similar interface card uses a 52-pin connector. Devices that use this connection are fairly rare, but the connector is used on many memory cards. Some early cards using this connection are "simple memory" and you need separate hardware/software on the computer (or in the device) to read them, but CF (Compact Flash) cards and most later variants that use this connector but have built-in USB signal processing. Some PCMCIA slots will accept these 52-pin devices, but usually you have to get a cheap adapter (a box with the PCMCIA connector on the outside, put the device in the box where there's a 52-pin connector, plug the box into the slot).

(There are some variations in voltage requirements for devices that use the 52-pin CF connector, so it's wise to pay attention to the detail specs when purchasing parts.)

For plain vanilla USB there's the standard USB plug that's a rectangular plug about a half-inch long and 1/8 inch thick. This fits the USB jack that's on nearly all recent computers.

The other end of the cable that you plug into the computer's USB jack can have a (1) standard USB connector, a (2) miniature connector, a (3) micro connector, or a (4) sub-micro connector. You can get "universal" cables that generally will accomodate devices of these last sizes, standard thru sub-micro, but they're difficult to find in my area. Since you have to carry a sack full of adapters with these, separate cables usually are preferred.

There may be a few proprietary connectors, but I haven't seen any other than these. It did take about two years to find a sub-micro cable to have a spare for my camera, and until I found one I had assumed it was probably "proprietary." It's standard, but somewhat rare.

So far as I've seen, Fujitsu is the only camera that's used the sub-micro for cable hookup, but some other devices may be around. Most cameras have a miniature or micro sized jack.

I can't comment on all the other toys, as I don't play with them; but I would assume that they'll generally be one of the above kinds.

John

Subject: RE: Tech: Why Can't a USB Just Be a USB!?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 28 May 07 - 10:11 AM

"a cheap USB-equipped 1 gig ancient laptop"

Older PCs only USB 1.0 or 1.1 - newer ones have USB 2.0 - which was designed to be much faster. It of course depends on what the device uses - older cameras, etc may still have ver 1 USB. Usually, if it just says "USB" it means only version one - they usually want to brag about 'USB 2.0'

USB 2.0 is 'backwards compatible', but then the USB device can only work at the slower sopeed if the 'ancient laptop' only has Ver 1 USB ports. This may not be insurmountable, just more time consuming.

Subject: RE: Tech: Why Can't a USB Just Be a USB!?
From: wysiwyg
Date: 28 May 07 - 12:15 PM

Proprietary cable-- we do have one, on the waterproof MP3 player. The end that inserts into the player is shaped quite oddly, and it's matched by the player. (I'm looking into adaptors.)


Stick/thumb-- as I said, we have one. The peripherals we're using don't appear to have compatible programming for file exchanging.


Old laptops/USB's-- transfer rate will not matter for the use I described.


~Susan

Subject: RE: Tech: Why Can't a USB Just Be a USB!?
From: M.Ted
Date: 28 May 07 - 07:07 PM

It's great to be able to carry around tiny little cameras, sound recorders, video recorders etc, but the downside is that, to listen to, edit, and transfer your work, you have to carry around a computer, too.

To preclude the need for traveling with *two* laptops, I now carry a bootable 40g hard drive, about the size of a cigarette case for storing those video and audio files--but space is getting a bit tight on it.

Subject: RE: Tech: Why Can't a USB Just Be a USB!?
From: wysiwyg
Date: 28 May 07 - 07:33 PM

bootable 40g hard drive

Speak slowly-- I'm not too techswift-- but does this mean I could use that for file transfer? Can't imagine, without a screen and mouse.

How is "bootable" different from other external hard drives?

Do you mean that you just hook it into the laptop you DO carry, as extra file storage space?

~Susan

Subject: RE: Tech: Why Can't a USB Just Be a USB!?
From: Gurney
Date: 29 May 07 - 12:17 AM

Sympathies, Susan. I have three cables taped to the top of my 'puter, one standard USB (memory stick), one mini USB (cellphone), one micro USB (camera). No front access on the machine, and anyway, that's the easy way to snap the nose off a stick.

The cellphone one allows me to text from the keyboard. My thumbs are opposed but not very prehensile. Transfers photos too, of course.

Hope they don't come out with an even smaller one.

I got my cables from the local equivalent of Ebay. New, and cheap, even the ones with software.

Subject: RE: Tech: Why Can't a USB Just Be a USB!?
From: M.Ted
Date: 29 May 07 - 02:26 AM

"Bootable" means that I can use it as my start up drive-this is because it has an operating system installed on it--

Subject: RE: Tech: Why Can't a USB Just Be a USB!?
From: M.Ted
Date: 29 May 07 - 08:45 AM

In other words, when I start it up using another computer, I have a clone of my computer--

Subject: RE: Tech: Why Can't a USB Just Be a USB!?
From: elfcape
Date: 29 May 07 - 10:48 AM

So you want to transfer both pix and sound, right?

Search around for a digital wallet on Google or Pricegrabber. There are actually quite a few devices that you could use - any wallet that you plug the USB end of the cable in to will serve your purposes.

Subject: RE: Tech: Why Can't a USB Just Be a USB!?
From: wysiwyg
Date: 29 May 07 - 11:18 AM

Do the wallets have a file manager? That seems to be the missing link.

~Susan

Subject: RE: Tech: Why Can't a USB Just Be a USB!?
From: wysiwyg
Date: 29 May 07 - 11:25 AM

... sure, just as soon as we have $500 bucks to spend I'll run right out and pick a few up....

~S~