Origin: Country Music

Subject: Origin: Country Music
From: GUEST,Richie
Date: 06 Jul 07 - 06:18 PM

Many people believe that country music began on August 1, 1927 in Bristol, Tennessee when Ralph Peer signed Jimmie Rodgers and the Carter Family to recording contracts for Victor Records.

Since Peer recorded Henry Whitter and Fiddlin' John Carson in 1923 wouldn't that be a more likely starting point?

Or maybe before that?

What would the first country hit song be?

Wouldn't a song like "Wreck of the Old Ninety-Seven" qualify as the first big country hit (by Dalhart in 1924)?

Or maybe Stoneman's "The Titanic" in 1924?

Just wondring,

Richie

Subject: RE: Origin: Country Music
From: Arkie
Date: 06 Jul 07 - 10:59 PM

There is country music and there is the country music industry.

Subject: RE: Origin: Country Music
From: Ebbie
Date: 06 Jul 07 - 11:30 PM

What were the songs called that our parents and grandparents sang? I know a good deal of it was flowery- like 'Juanita' and 'Long, Long Trail a-Windin' but what about songs like 'Red River Valley'?

When I was growing up in the 40s and for awhile later we sang 'hillbilly songs' and 'cowboy songs'. My dad, reared in North Dakota, is the one who taught us the cowboy songs.

But I would think that both of those designations would be called country today.

Subject: RE: Origin: Country Music
From: GUEST,Richie
Date: 06 Jul 07 - 11:43 PM

That's why it's called "Country and Western" Music. The curious thing about Country Music is that it seems to emcompass a variety of music styles from Hawaiian guitar to Cajun dialect, from Western cowboys songs and Mexicali twang.

"The Father of Country Music," Jimmie Rodgers had his first major hit with a 12 bar blues song adapted from traditional lyrics entitled, "T For Texas." Hank Williams big hit was Lovesick Blues, a Tin-Pan Alley song.

So before Fiddlin' John Carson in 1923 other recordings made. Certainly Billy Golden could qualify as the first country Music recording artist. Golden recorded "Turkey in the Straw" in 1896 and then the bluegrass standard "Roll on de Ground" in 1899. In 1901 Columbia cylinder catalog listed "Arkansas Traveler" and Silas Leachman recorded Turkey in the Straw. Then in 1915 Alma Gluck's "Carry Me Back to Old Virginny" recorded for Victor sold over one million copies. Frank C. Brown of Duke University recorded Bascom Lamar Lunsford on some cylinders in 1922 and Eck Robertson recorded twelve sides for Victor on June 30, 1922.

Where did country music start?

Richie

Subject: RE: Origin: Country Music
From: M.Ted
Date: 07 Jul 07 - 02:20 AM

Well, we get your point--even still, the first recording of this music wouldn't really be the be beginning of the musical genre--much of the music recorded by Uncle Dave Macon, for instance, was "traditional" at the time that he recorded it, in the middle '20's--Vess Ossman's banjo picking technique was pretty close to what you'd hear a "traditional" fingerpicking guitarist play today, (though he uses some rolls that I've never heard any acoustic guitarist play)--he started recording in 1893, and the style was pretty well developed then--

Subject: RE: Origin: Country Music
From: GUEST,Richie
Date: 07 Jul 07 - 09:36 AM

How can we talk about a genre if there's no starting point?

Roy Acuff is the "King of Country Music" and he learned from Tom Ashley. What role does Tom Ashley play in the foundation of country music? Is he recognized as a part of it?

Is Fiddlin' John Carson "country?" How about Gid Tanner and the Skillet Lickers?

But Uncle Dave Macon and his Fruit Jar Drinkers is country.

I dunno,

Richie

Subject: RE: Origin: Country Music
From: GUEST
Date: 07 Jul 07 - 09:45 AM

Henry Whitter recorded "Wreck of the Old 97" in 1923. Is he country?

No-

But this singer who recorded the song is country. One of his first roles was in Giacomo Puccini's opera Girl of the Golden West; following this he played the part of Ralph Rackstraw in a production of HMS Pinafore. He also played the part of Lieutenant Pinkerton in Madame Butterfly.

His name- Vernon Dalhart, one of the biggest country stars.

Richie

Subject: RE: Origin: Country Music
From: sian, west wales
Date: 07 Jul 07 - 11:02 AM

I learned quite a lot about this subject by reading Singing Cowboys and Musical Mountaineers which was recommended on the Mudcat Library permathread.

sian

Subject: RE: Origin: Country Music
From: GUEST,Zoe Bremer
Date: 07 Jul 07 - 11:27 AM

Many of the Appalachian songs are of British origin. You're probably looking in the wrong country! I'd suggest a look through THE FOLK SONGS OF BRITAIN AND IRELAND to get some idea of the origins. Another source would be libraries such as the National Sound Archive of the British Library, which has recordings going back to the days of wax cylinders.

Subject: RE: Origin: Country Music
From: GUEST,Richie
Date: 07 Jul 07 - 11:41 AM

Song's like "Froggie Went a Courtin'" and a similar version of "Froggie" that Chubby Parker had a hit with called "King Kong Kitchee" originated from England in the 1500's. Then other similar songs like "Uncle Budd" were country staples; or were they really country songs?

Certainly the origin of Country Music isn't 1545.

But when is it?

Richie

Subject: RE: Origin: Country Music
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 07 Jul 07 - 03:15 PM

"Turkey in de Straw" was first copyright by Dan Bryant in 1861, published by H. B. Dodworth (copy in LC , see their online catalog- Call No. 1622.B(Case), Performing Arts Reading Room). Most authorities relate it to "Zip Coon."
Much later, it was performed in 1910 by a popular traveling Hungarian group (American Memory).

The modern version, "a ragtime fantasy Words by Leo Wood Music by Otto Bonnell," was published in 1920 by Leo Feist (American Memory).

The minstrels certainly had a hand in the origin of 'country music'.

Subject: RE: Origin: Country Music
From: Goose Gander
Date: 07 Jul 07 - 04:49 PM

A lot of really syrupy, American 'tin pan alley'-type stuff from the late nineteenth century made it in, too.

Subject: RE: Origin: Country Music
From: GUEST,Richie
Date: 07 Jul 07 - 05:29 PM

Michael,

That reminds me of the story about a balladeer who attracted national attention for his vast knowledge of Appalchian folk songs. Several song collectors came to hear him do a live concert hoping to uncover some rare song that he knew.

He started the concert out with a rendition of "After the Ball was Over" not realizing that the song was a popular hit in 1896.

I've done several concerts with Country Music Hall-of Famer Doc Watson. I had to shake my head when I heard him play "Nights in White Satin," a song I didn't know he played.

Richie