Want first verse to Hal an Tow.

Subject: Want first verse to Hal an Tow.
From:
Date: 13 Apr 99 - 06:10 PM

I have heard a verse that precedes. 'Take no scorn.....' Can anybody help.

Subject: Lyr Add: HAL AN TOW
From: Penny
Date: 14 Apr 99 - 05:42 AM

I have a version of the Hal-an-Tow, from the book which is dubious about the Cutty Wren, so I can't answer for authenticity - especially as neither verse matches the snatch above.

Robin Hood and Little John,
They both are gone to fair, O!
And we will go to the merry green woods
To see what they do there, O!
And for to chase O!
To chase the buck and doe.

With Hal-lan-Tow, Rumble, O!
For we were up as soon as any day, O!
And for to fetch the summer home,
The summer and the May, O!
For summer is a-come O!
And winter is a-gone O!

Where are those bold Spaniards
That make so great a boast O!
Why they shall eat the grey goose feathers,
And we will eat the roast, O!
In every land O!
The land where'er we go.

Subject: Lyr Add: HAL AN TOW
From: The_one_and_only_Dai
Date: 14 Apr 99 - 05:44 AM

Take no scorn to wear the horn,
It was the crest 'ere you were born.
Your father's father wore it son,
Now you must wear it too.

spooky eh?

Subject: RE: Want first verse to Hal an Tow.
From: The_one_and_only_Dai
Date: 14 Apr 99 - 05:46 AM

Sorry Andrew, I've just realised I didn't read your request properly. Oops.

Subject: RE: Want first verse to Hal an Tow.
From: Penny
Date: 14 Apr 99 - 07:18 AM

I've now found the DT version - did look before posting earlier, but used the wrong terms - clearly I've only got a shortened version. Would I be right in supposing that the hunting references may be like those in "The Keeper did a hunting go" and have an alternative reading?

Subject: RE: Want first verse to Hal an Tow.
From: MMario
Date: 14 Apr 99 - 09:21 AM

Way back in the dim dark ages when I first learned a version of this....I was told that it is basically a song about a man being cuckolded....thus "to wear the horn"

MMario

Subject: RE: Want first verse to Hal an Tow.
From: George Henderson
Date: 14 Apr 99 - 09:32 AM

Andrew-

You went to great lengths to get this - Didn't you know I would have it??

George

Subject: RE: Want first verse to Hal an Tow.
From: Barbara
Date: 14 Apr 99 - 10:06 AM

So, George, my friend, for those of us who aren't Andrew, would you share your first verse (and any others that we lack)?
Blessings,
Barbara

Subject: RE: Want first verse to Hal an Tow.
From: Bruce O.
Date: 14 Apr 99 - 10:36 AM

The horn (cuckolding) in Hal an Tow was dealt on a thread long ago. Congratulations Penny, most people don't understand the symbolism of the hunting of the does in 'The Keeper'. The original 17th century version is in Scarce Songs 1 on my website.

Subject: RE: Want first verse to Hal an Tow.
From: GEORGE HENDERSON
Date: 14 Apr 99 - 12:19 PM

Sorry Barbara,

Andrew and I go back a long way and we are stalwart drinking buddies when we get a chance to meet.

My response to him was tongue in cheek and my version is the standard Mike Wtaerson version, the first verse of which is posted above.

I saw no point in repeating it.

Of course I will share any of my songs with anyone as that is essential for a thriving tradition.

I do have a problem in that I can only get access to the net at work and my data base is at home. so it gets difficult.

Hope you can understand this jibberish

George

Subject: RE: Want first verse to Hal an Tow.
From: Bruce O.
Date: 14 Apr 99 - 12:21 PM

Texts and tunes are in old threads 'Hal an Tow' and ...'Furry', but I can't find the one with the discussion on horns (cuckolding)

Subject: RE: Want first verse to Hal an Tow.
From: MMario
Date: 14 Apr 99 - 12:23 PM

Neither could I Bruce--Which is why I didn't mention it as I had no way of pointing towards it..

MMario

Subject: RE: Want first verse to Hal an Tow.
From: Bruce O.
Date: 14 Apr 99 - 02:15 PM

It's begining to look like several threads have gotten lost; Where wad Bonnie Annie lie, a song by Ewan McVicar, the earlier Sean O'Duibhir, and now this. Maybe if the 'body' part of the Forum Search gets fixed we might find some of them. It's hard to remember the actual spelling of key words in the titles of some threads, so one often can't be sure the thread is really gone.

Subject: RE: Want first verse to Hal an Tow.
From: Barbara
Date: 14 Apr 99 - 02:22 PM

I found the song by Ewan McVicar and he posted to it -- "All the Tunes in the World". Have a look. I think we did lose a few during the crashes, but I find more often threads aren't lost, it's just the header isn't quite right or I've misremembered it. Like good luck trying to pull up the ones on the song "True Religion" since the thread is captioned "True RELGION".
But since youre here, how are Hal-an-tow and Furry Day Carol related? Which came first? and what does Hal-an-to mean?
Blessings,
Barbara

Subject: RE: Want first verse to Hal an Tow.
From: Bruce O.
Date: 14 Apr 99 - 02:59 PM

Thank you, Barbara.

Subject: RE: Want first verse to Hal an Tow.
From: Bruce O.
Date: 14 Apr 99 - 05:33 PM

"Bonnie Annie" is in the "John Peel" thread, so all now found but the earlier "John (Sean) O'Dwyer of the Glen". I thought when nothing happened with the Body search in Forum Search, that it couldn't be found, but I understand now that it's simply not working.

Subject: RE: Want first verse to Hal an Tow.
From: Andrew
Date: 20 Apr 99 - 05:22 PM

George

I deny wholeheartedly the allegation that I in anyway partake of intoxicating liquor, where is your evidence. I can't remember a thing.

You will be hearing from my lawyers, Messrs Elbow Bend and Swallow, Any Inn in the Parish.

Andrew

Subject: RE: Want first verse to Hal an Tow.
From: GUEST,Heather P in Bremerton
Date: 25 Jul 08 - 07:08 PM

I have a different version, which may or may not be of interest. "Hal and Tow" is simply "Heel and Toe," the dance form, in a slightly older English, no need to spell it "Tow," and "rumbelow" is no nonsense, it is a place name from Anglo-Saxon, and is an evolution of the place-specified surname of the 12th c. Richard de Thrimelowe. [Olde English pre 7th Century "threom", a derivative of "threo", three, and "hlawum", the dative plural of "hlaw", barrow, tumulus, burial mound; hence, "at the three tumuli". Source: http://www.surnamedb.com/surname.aspx?name=Rumbelow, or in SCAdian heraldry, http://heraldry.sca.org/laurel/names/misplacednamesbyname.htm it means "by the three mounds or barrows"]. In any case, on to the song:

===

CH:
Hal and Toe (clap), jolly rumbelow, (2 claps)
we were up (clap), long before the day-o, (slow it down a bit)
to welcome in the summer, to welcome in the May, O,
Summer is a-comin' on and winter's gone away, O.

Take no scorn to wear the horn,
It was the crest 'ere you were born.
Your father's father wore it and
your father wore it too, O.

> CH

Robin Hood and Little John,
They both are gone to fair, O!
And we will to the jolly green woods
To hunt the fox and hare, O!

>CH

What of those noble Spaniards
That make so brave a boast O!
Why they shall eat the feathered goose,
And we shall eat the roast, O!

>CH

Must add that in some Renfest groups, the words "May, O" bring a call of "Hold the Mayo!" and "day, O!" brings a diversion at least once into "Daylight Come and Me Want To Go Home" a la Harry Belafonte, after which the song is resumed with some muttering from those not engaged in calypso shenanigans.

-- Heather P in Bremerton, WA (for now)

Subject: RE: Want first verse to Hal an Tow.
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 25 Jul 08 - 09:07 PM

Good post Guest. Join and stick around.

Subject: RE: Want first verse to Hal an Tow.
From: Folkiedave
Date: 26 Jul 08 - 02:39 AM

Originally by Shakespeare of course.

Subject: RE: Want first verse to Hal an Tow.
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 26 Jul 08 - 02:44 AM

Is it clearly understood that Mike Waterson made up the verse that starts;

Take no scorn?

Cheers

L in C

Subject: RE: Want first verse to Hal an Tow.
From: BillE
Date: 26 Jul 08 - 02:59 AM

In the dim and distant past I can remember a verse on the lines of:

Since man was first created,
He always has debated,
The thing most celebrated
Is the coming of the May...

I'm sure I didn't dream it! Anyone heard this??

Bill

Subject: RE: Want first verse to Hal an Tow.
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 26 Jul 08 - 03:09 AM

I've heard it, this is the verse that MIke Waterson wrote, it can be heard [ I think ] in the film about the Watersons, ' Travelling For A Living '

eric

Subject: RE: Want first verse to Hal an Tow.
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 26 Jul 08 - 03:23 AM

This is a very old thread, revived just now (after nine years of merciful sleep) by somebody who wanted to post information that is already in most of the other discussions on the song here. There's no need to re-hash all these points again, surely? See links above for the usual information and misinformation.

Subject: RE: Want first verse to Hal an Tow.
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 26 Jul 08 - 04:31 AM

Bill,

thanks for that reminder, I think that that is the verse Mike Waterson made up and take no scorn is much much older.

Cheers
L in C

Subject: RE: Want first verse to Hal an Tow.
From: GUEST,Mhairi
Date: 09 May 09 - 09:17 PM

the verse which refers to the Spaniards eating the goose feather, means that they are stuck with arrows (which are fletched with the goose feather!) The enemy mentioned would have originally changed with the times.