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Banda Celtamericana in UK
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Subject: Banda Celtamericana in UK From: Sooz Date: 09 Jul 07 - 02:13 PM Banda Celtamericana are visiting the UK from Chile this month and doing a few gigs (including Live @ Cassies in Gainsborough on 19th July). Has anyone already seen them? |
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Subject: RE: Banda Celtamericana in UK From: Sooz Date: 10 Jul 07 - 02:39 AM Nobody? |
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Subject: RE: Banda Celtamericana in UK From: The Borchester Echo Date: 10 Jul 07 - 02:58 AM I find it a little hard to fathom why a band of Chilean musicians are trying to sound as much like Flook as possible. The only thing vaguely 'Celtic' about Chile is a few Welsh and a lot of sheep down near the bottom. Given the vast wealth of indigenous traditional music in Chile and the fact that they cite Inti Illimani as an influence, a little more celebration of their own culture wouldn't go amiss. |
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Subject: RE: Banda Celtamericana in UK From: Sooz Date: 10 Jul 07 - 03:01 AM I do tend to agree Diane, but the opportunity to invite musicians from the other side of the world to play to our youngsters here in the backwoods was too good to miss! |
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Subject: RE: Banda Celtamericana in UK From: GUEST,countrylife Date: 10 Jul 07 - 12:48 PM and surely a group of musicians is entitled to play the music they choose to play; are they not? |
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Subject: RE: Banda Celtamericana in UK From: Lizzie Cornish Date: 10 Jul 07 - 01:25 PM >>>I find it a little hard to fathom why a band of Chilean musicians are trying to sound as much like Flook as possible. The only thing vaguely 'Celtic' about Chile is a few Welsh and a lot of sheep down near the bottom. Given the vast wealth of indigenous traditional music in Chile and the fact that they cite Inti Illimani as an influence, a little more celebration of their own culture wouldn't go amiss.<<< Er....maybe they just really like playing Celtic music... Off with their heads! They sound Chilean to me, but hey what do I know.. Banda Celtamericana on Youtube |
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Subject: RE: Banda Celtamericana in UK From: The Borchester Echo Date: 10 Jul 07 - 01:30 PM They sound Chilean to me, but hey what do I know Clearly sod all. 'Butterfly' is an Irish tune. |
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Subject: RE: Banda Celtamericana in UK From: Lizzie Cornish Date: 10 Jul 07 - 01:33 PM Ah...but they're playing it in a Chilean way though so....Poo to yoo! :0) |
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Subject: RE: Banda Celtamericana in UK From: katlaughing Date: 10 Jul 07 - 01:54 PM From their MySpace site, it is easy to see they do NOT claim to only be Chilean nor Celtic, so who gives a toss...it's music and it is good! |
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Subject: RE: Banda Celtamericana in UK From: katlaughing Date: 10 Jul 07 - 01:55 PM Meant to add this from their site: Banda Celtamericana: Celtic and Latin American fusion music from Chile Banda celtamericana is made up by 6 young musicians coming from north, central and southern Chile. Its repertoire is mainly based on their own compositions plus traditional music founded on the so called celtic musical tradition, adding to this mix latin american musical elements such as instruments, rhythms and melodies. Since October 2002 the band members started to work together as Nimloth playing traditional music from countries such as Ireland, Scotland and the NW regions of Spain of Asturias and Galicia. This work has been sponsored with sucessive state grants from the chilean Fondo de la Música to record and nationally tour the CD "Puerto Celta: Celtic Music from Valparaíso", including there most of the musical work done from 2002 to 2005. From late 2005 the band project starts to be known as banda celtamericana. |
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Subject: RE: Banda Celtamericana in UK From: Sooz Date: 10 Jul 07 - 01:56 PM I'll report back after the gig - I just need to sell some tickets now! |
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Subject: RE: Banda Celtamericana in UK From: GUEST,countrylife Date: 10 Jul 07 - 04:33 PM "so who gives a toss...it's music and it is good! " fully agree with you kat...but apparently some folk (pun intended) do give a toss...sad really |
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Subject: RE: Banda Celtamericana in UK From: The Borchester Echo Date: 11 Jul 07 - 03:17 AM For those who actually do 'give a toss' for human rights and the re-emergence of trad music in Latin America, this tour ought to serve as a reminder that it is approaching 34 years since Pinochet's thugs murdered Victor Jara in Santiago's stadium, stifled the New Chilean Song Movement and forced many exponents, including the famed bands Quilapayun and Inti Illimani, into exile. It remains to be seen whether it will do so, but performances based on Chile's indigenous cultural heritage are rather more likely to achieve this than fake Oirish which is rather too thick on the ground already and will bring little that is distinctive to audiences in Britain. |
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Subject: RE: Banda Celtamericana in UK From: GUEST,Shimrod Date: 11 Jul 07 - 04:18 AM Well, the world is stranger than even I thought it to be! Unfortunately, it also appears to be getting less strange, and more homogeneous, every day. I suppose, on the plus side, wall-to-wall 'Celtic' will make a refreshing change from wall-to-wall Rock ... but I expect that I'll soon be sick of that too ... in fact, to tell the truth, I'm already sick of it! |
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Subject: RE: Banda Celtamericana in UK From: katlaughing Date: 11 Jul 07 - 04:21 AM Don't make such assumptions. You know very well I was referring to their specific music and that is all. If you knew me or looked over my posting history you would know my stance and my work on human rights and indigenous music. I am sure there is room for both trad and the type of music THIS band prefers to perform. It is not an either/or thing. |
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Subject: RE: Banda Celtamericana in UK From: Lizzie Cornish Date: 11 Jul 07 - 05:31 AM >>>For those who actually do 'give a toss' for human rights and the re-emergence of trad music in Latin America, this tour ought to serve as a reminder that it is approaching 34 years since Pinochet's thugs murdered Victor Jara in Santiago's stadium, stifled the New Chilean Song Movement and forced many exponents, including the famed bands Quilapayun and Inti Illimani, into exile.<<< Oh right...so are they now to be accused of being uncaring, self-absorbed musicians who don't give a damn, simply because YOU have deemed it so? Sheesh!! |
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Subject: RE: Banda Celtamericana in UK From: The Borchester Echo Date: 11 Jul 07 - 06:09 AM It is countrylife who boasts of 'not giving a toss' about Chilean political and musical history. The band is, presumably, well aware of it. I would recommend that this person, along with lizziecornish and anyone else so wilfully ignorant, go away and inform themselves before spouting such tripe. The importance of the New Chilean Song Movement, the Chile Solidarity Campaign and associated struggles for Latin American democracy and eventual downfall of Pinochet has, inexplicably, passed them by and this may take some time. |
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Subject: RE: Banda Celtamericana in UK From: Lizzie Cornish Date: 11 Jul 07 - 06:12 AM Oh ALIANZA to you Diane.... |
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Subject: RE: Banda Celtamericana in UK From: katlaughing Date: 11 Jul 07 - 10:41 AM countrylife was quoting me: From their MySpace site, it is easy to see they do NOT claim to only be Chilean nor Celtic, so who gives a toss...it's music and it is good! Nowhere did either of us boast of 'not giving a toss' about Chilean political and musical history. You really like to stir the pot, don't you? At least try to be accurate, Dye-Anne. |
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Subject: RE: Banda Celtamericana in UK From: Lizzie Cornish Date: 11 Jul 07 - 10:52 AM Banda Celtamericana Myspace page Main site |
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Subject: RE: Banda Celtamericana in UK From: The Borchester Echo Date: 11 Jul 07 - 10:58 AM Examples of mature assessment of Chile's musical and political history: 'countrylife': apparently some f*lk . . . do give a toss...sad really 'madlizziecornish': are they now to be accused of being uncaring, self-absorbed musicians who don't give a damn, simply because YOU have deemed it so? Victor Jara and Salvador Allende are still murdered. And, FFS madlizziecornish, stop posting unnecessary links. EVERYBODY knows how to search the internet, should they so wish. |
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Subject: RE: Banda Celtamericana in UK From: katlaughing Date: 11 Jul 07 - 11:04 AM If you are going to base your postings on actual quotes, use the whole quote. It's not nice to pick and choose the bits that fit your agenda, whatever that is. country life said, in full: "so who gives a toss...it's music and it is good! " fully agree with you kat...but apparently some folk (pun intended) do give a toss...sad really Nothing there about not giving a toss' about Chilean political and musical history. |
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Subject: RE: Banda Celtamericana in UK From: The Borchester Echo Date: 11 Jul 07 - 11:15 AM It's a weak attempt in very poor taste to ridicule those who DO 'give a toss' about Chilean music and what befell its exponents in 1973. I was assuming (perhaps wrongly) that everybody in the world (with the obvious exception of madlizziecornish who knows sod all about anything, including the output of her idols) knew that. |
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Subject: RE: Banda Celtamericana in UK From: Lizzie Cornish Date: 11 Jul 07 - 11:27 AM Did you know that Show of Hands 'Country Life' has recently been put forward as a suggestion for the new CD collaboration being put together by Amnesty International Diane? No?.....Gosh...you ARE behind the times aren't you! And no, it wasn't me that put it forward, it was someone in America, who came over to my Myspace page to tell me all about it. Kat's right, you take snippets of what people say and bend them to fit your purpose. You are not the only person in the world who cares you know, although you seem hellbent on trying to convince everyone that's the case. And as to posting links, I'll do as I please thanks very much, so I'd suggest you keep your dictatorial attitude to yourself, even though you may regard such an attitude as fitting in this thread. This is a thread about Banda Celtamericana, so why shouldn't there be easy links to them? I've not noticed you bemoaning the links to Eliza Carthy in her thread, or to any other musicians, subjects, that you are interested in. >>>It's a weak attempt in very poor taste to ridicule those who DO 'give a toss' about Chilean music and what befell its exponents in 1973.<<< Is it? I didn't read it as that, neither did Kat. For someone who abhors dictators as you so claim, you at times so often seem to emulate some of their attitudes that only THEY know what is right and wrong, what people mean or don't mean etc..and you deal out your punishment accordingly... I'd suggest now, if you so chooose, that you go and brush up on the new Amnesty International CD, instead of coming in here, upsetting folk and ruining a perfectly decent thread with your, in my opinion, verbal abuse. Thanks ever so much... Lizzie |
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Subject: RE: Banda Celtamericana in UK From: Maryrrf Date: 11 Jul 07 - 11:30 AM Actually Chile does have a celtic link! Does the name Bernardo O'Higgins mean anything ? Seriously, as a person who was involved with the Chilean exile community in the years following the coup (my ex was in exile because he had been a student activist who supported Allende)- I can say that I don't see anything wrong with a group of young Chilean musicians deciding to explore something different, musically speaking. Surely, although we value the contributions of exponents of La Nueva Cancion Chilena - the Parra family (Violeta and her children), Victor Jara, groups such as Quiliapayun, Inti Illimani, etc. that doesn't mean that all Chilean musicians must confine themselves to that genre! When I lived in France during the seventies I had the pleasure of knowing some of these musicians personally and attended many concerts. Who knew that the Pinochet dictatorship would have lasted so long - at that time everybody was hoping for a change within five years of the coup. My ex finally returned to Chile in the 80's after things had calmed down a bit and it was safe to do so, but even now the family is scarred - for one thing his brother was one of the 'desaparecidos'. You don't get over something like that. Anyway that said - I don't think all music has to be a form of political expression. I'd go to see this group if they were playing in my vicinity! |
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Subject: RE: Banda Celtamericana in UK From: katlaughing Date: 11 Jul 07 - 11:46 AM Thanks, Maryrrf! Diane, if you read that as a "weak attempt to ridicule" you are either thin-skinned or reading WAY too much in peoples' words, or both. |
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Subject: RE: Banda Celtamericana in UK From: The Borchester Echo Date: 11 Jul 07 - 12:58 PM I know a long list of artists who would do a great deal not to come within the sights of madlizziecornish, the demented Sidmouth-via-Pinner seagull, and have their links posted as part of her career-wrecking, trolling, campaign of idiocy. Not a scrap of notice does she take when, time after time, she's pleaded with to stop. And now she's back, sinking to previously unimagined depths of inanity, hellbent now on destroying Amnesty. This band is not exactly known for songwriting so it would be somewhat strange to try and herd them into the New Chilean Song camp. They are competent musicians and on an overseas tour it would be more than odd, indeed perverse, were they not to showcase trad Chilean music. After all, days are now passed (thankfully) that bands of Quilapayun clones are forced to play throughout Europe's market squares. Though, on the other hand, it might remind (or even acquaint people for the first time) of how Chilean music, along with the ordinary people, was oppressed in the cause of democracy. Joan Jara, together with her and Victor's children Amanda and Manuela, lived close to me in the aftermath of 11 September 1973. I was just back from Russia where I'd arrived in Moscow by overnight train from Kiev on the morning of the 12th wih a delegation of Young Communists. I spoke on the platform condemning the Soviet Army, Navy, Airforce and anyone else I could think of for not going to Allende's aid. I was arrested, of course, but not expelled. I wish I had been. Back in England I organised Chile Solidarity benefits and wrote pieces on the sufferings. Yet today the world is swarming with those who give not a toss, whether for the political principle nor the music. That's what's sad. |
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Subject: RE: Banda Celtamericana in UK From: katlaughing Date: 11 Jul 07 - 01:01 PM Agreed, that is sad. Speaking for myself, though, I DO give a toss about the music and the principles, it's just NOT what this thread nor my previous comments were about. You are not the only one on Mudcat, by any means, who has worked for and been concerned about human rights, etc. |
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Subject: RE: Banda Celtamericana in UK From: GUEST,countrylife Date: 11 Jul 07 - 01:08 PM "You really like to stir the pot, don't you?" Yes she does, and for the reason that folks(pun intended) who disagree with her atr in her eyes somewhat less in stature intellectually than she is. Well I've got news for you, you weren't only one who has been arrested and, in some cases, done time for their political beliefs, so get off that high horse of yours , because frankly, my dear, you're getting a wee bit boring. |
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Subject: RE: Banda Celtamericana in UK From: The Borchester Echo Date: 11 Jul 07 - 01:20 PM Good grief. Horse alert AND pathetically weak f*lk j*ke AND tired, barely alive stab at blokish sexism. Clichéeriddenville, Arizona DO go and catch the next available Canada-bound flight and take madlizziecornish with you. |
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Subject: RE: Banda Celtamericana in UK From: GUEST,countrylife Date: 11 Jul 07 - 01:32 PM for ral socially aware people I have all the time tin the world, to listen to their ideas and solutions, where applicable. For posers like you, Diane Easby, I know no time at all. |
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Subject: RE: Banda Celtamericana in UK From: The Borchester Echo Date: 11 Jul 07 - 01:35 PM Good. So sod off to Canada dragging that madlizziecornish troll with you and leave this place free for those of us who want and know how to discuss MUSIC and other real issues. |
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Subject: RE: Banda Celtamericana in UK From: GUEST,countrylife Date: 11 Jul 07 - 01:41 PM and me cliché ridden..?...oh dear...re-read your posting for 11 Jul 07 - 12:58 PM. " I was just back from Russia". "anyone else I could think of for not going to Allende's aid". " I was arrested, of course, but not expelled. I wish I had been." The list is endless isn't it? A veritable cornucopia of "progressive" clichés. and yes I'm laughing at you, not with you. |
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Subject: RE: Banda Celtamericana in UK From: GUEST,countrylife Date: 11 Jul 07 - 01:44 PM ahhh...music..yes a part of my life for a good many years...are you a musician...? |
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Subject: RE: Banda Celtamericana in UK From: The Borchester Echo Date: 11 Jul 07 - 02:25 PM The band under discussion is not exactly known for songwriting so it would be somewhat strange to try and herd them into the New Chilean Song camp. They are competent musicians and on an overseas tour it would be more than odd, indeed perverse, were they not to showcase trad Chilean music. After all, days are now passed (thankfully) that bands of Quilapayun clones are forced to play throughout Europe's market squares. They are, at last, home and able to play openly. Though, on the other hand, it might remind (or even acquaint people for the first time) with how Chilean music, along with the ordinary people, was oppressed in the cause of democracy. Joan Jara, together with her and Victor's children Amanda and Manuela, lived close to me in the aftermath of 11 September 1973. At that time I was just back from Russia where I'd arrived in Moscow by overnight train from Kiev on the morning of the 12th with a delegation of Young Communists. I spoke on the platform condemning the Soviet Army, Navy, Airforce and anyone else I could think of for not going to Allende's aid. I was hauled off by the police, of course, but not expelled. I wish I had been. Back in England I organised Chile Solidarity benefits and wrote pieces on the sufferings. Yet today the world is swarming with those who give not a toss, whether for the political principle nor the music. That's what's sad. People need to know, and hear Chile's traditional music, not to be taken in by Pinochet apologists and their ilk. |
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Subject: RE: Banda Celtamericana in UK From: Big Mick Date: 11 Jul 07 - 02:29 PM Jeri......did I miss something?? I just read countrylife's posts and didn't see anything that resembled a flame. But I did see the same arrogant, know it all, bullshit that Diane seems to throw out every so often. She hits us with arrogance and then makes a weak attempt to tie it to Jara and the horrid actions of Pinochet, in order to justify her arrogance. If it is wrong to have Chileans playing music with a "celtic" (whatever that means) influence, then perhaps we could get these Brit impostor bluesmen to stop playing music that is strictly US born and bred. While we are at it, let's get these phoney French to stop with all that American jazz. And, of course, we must get these American impostors to stop with all this World music they seem to want to play. In short, judge them on their talent and presentation, and save the know it all lectures. Mick |
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Subject: RE: Banda Celtamericana in UK From: Big Mick Date: 11 Jul 07 - 02:32 PM ... and we cross posted. What give you the right to decide what music they will play, or to belittle them for not playing what you, in your pomposity, think they should play? I am sure that there are plenty of Chilean musicians who play the music you describe. It is their choice, not yours. |
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Subject: RE: Banda Celtamericana in UK From: GUEST,countrylife Date: 11 Jul 07 - 02:33 PM Exactly...judge them on their talent and presentation, and never mind the politics |
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Subject: RE: Banda Celtamericana in UK From: katlaughing Date: 11 Jul 07 - 02:35 PM My posting was not flaming, either. I have a right to be sure someone quotes me correctly and to answer their assumptions based on what I posted. |
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Subject: RE: Banda Celtamericana in UK From: GUEST,countrylife Date: 11 Jul 07 - 02:51 PM Thank you kat :-) "I know a long list of artists who would do a great deal not to come within the sights of madlizziecornish, the demented Sidmouth-via-Pinner seagull, and have their links posted as part of her career-wrecking, trolling, campaign of idiocy. Not a scrap of notice does she take when, time after time, she's pleaded with to stop. And now she's back, sinking to previously unimagined depths of inanity, hellbent now on destroying Amnesty" and this is not flaming, of course...... |
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Subject: RE: Banda Celtamericana in UK From: BusyBee Paul Date: 11 Jul 07 - 03:11 PM Sooz, IF you are still there, I'll let you know on Friday if I can make the Live@Cassie's. I'm sure the youngsters will enjoy them, they are far more receptive than some ex-youngsters after all!. Keep up the good work. BBP |
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Subject: RE: Banda Celtamericana in UK From: The Borchester Echo Date: 12 Jul 07 - 10:41 AM More than half a decade ago, under the regime of Bush The First (he who became CIA Director just three years after the coup cooked up by that organisation installed the murderous Pinochet regime in Chile), fRoots declared the following in an editorial: "When I was an early teenager, the world was a lot larger and further away. To people of my age in the monochrome post-war horizons of the small seaside town where I grew up, America seemed alluring and romantic. We were dazzled by it. Blues, jazz, American folk, the still-fresh roots of rock'n'roll, the writings of Kerouac, the language of Lord Buckley, Bob Dylan! - all these things were hip, sophisticated, attractively different, had a depth of secret culture that we wanted to find a way into. It's all different now, of course. America has dumbed beyond belief, and the secret cultures are our own and those of all the other local communities around the world who have undergone cultural ethnic cleansing. Your children can hardly turn on any channel of TV without having American soaps, news, adverts, cartoons and films pounding at them. You can't turn on the radio without hearing American music or local copies of it. Put on Top Of The Pops and every single song will be sung in an American accent, regardless of where the artist comes from. Go to most parts of the globe and turn on the radio and you'll hear the same thing. Walk down the streets in most places on the planet and the same American corporate advertising will lure identically dressed zombies in backwards-facing American baseball caps into American chains to eat American junk food." Things have to change". Thus the partial cultural boycott was born. And this is the rationale behind exhorting artists to examine their OWN cultural heritages, to perform local and regional musics with a sense of roots, place and community. In the case of this band from Latin America, there can be little point for them to dish up in their performances in Britain a 'Celtic' mish-mash/fusion, call it what you will, that is all-too-readily available from proliferating Flook clones everywhere. This is in no way 'telling them what they should play' but pointing out the obvious: that it would be of infinitely greater value for audiences on an overseas tour to hear the band's indigenous music rather than that which is all around them, polluting and diluting those still-extant traditions. It ill behoves the 'anything goes', 'good-enough-for-f*lk' brigade to shriek ignorantly that this is prescriptive. Were they to check back it might just register with them that a band with its roots on display would, in fact, be the OP's preference. |
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Subject: RE: Banda Celtamericana in UK From: GUEST,countrylife Date: 12 Jul 07 - 01:49 PM "And this is the rationale behind exhorting artists to examine their OWN cultural heritages, to perform local and regional musics with a sense of roots, place and community" and this applies to England as well, of course? *It All Comes Round Again* |
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Subject: RE: Banda Celtamericana in UK From: Big Mick Date: 12 Jul 07 - 01:54 PM Diane, quit your ridiculous crap. This is a thread about a band coming to visit. You, in your arrogance, have twisted it to suit you. If you want a discussion of Chilean folk arts, and what you (in Old Blighty, I might add) thinks is appropriate folk music for these artists to play, please start a thread. Anymore hijacking of this one will result in deletion. Talk about the band, or start a political thread. I would gladly participate in a decent discussion of the despicalbe US involvement with the Pinochet government. But not here. Mick |
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Subject: RE: Banda Celtamericana in UK From: Lizzie Cornish Date: 12 Jul 07 - 02:18 PM *It All Comes Round Again* It certainly does! |
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Subject: RE: Banda Celtamericana in UK From: BusyBee Paul Date: 12 Jul 07 - 02:44 PM Oh that our little backwoods place hadn't been discovered...... |
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Subject: RE: Banda Celtamericana in UK From: Folkiedave Date: 12 Jul 07 - 04:38 PM I haven't seen the band and doubt if I will - despite their proximity to Sheffield, not my scene and I think we have enough Irish groups without importing them from S. America. I have seen what's available on the internet and to be honest they didn't strike me as anything special - they may be better live of course. I am intrigued as to why a group from Chile even wants to play Irish music. In the same way I would be intrigued to find out why a band consisting of Sheffield folk musicians wanted to play Chilean music should such a thing exist. However I worked with a Chilean refugee for a number of years. He played in Chile's World Cup Team of 1962. He was one of Allende's elite guards, one of the few that survived. He was a football coach so I often saw the marks of torture on his body when he changed his clothes. There are times when music and politics are totally intertwined. This happens to be one of them. |
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Subject: RE: Banda Celtamericana in UK From: GUEST,Freedom To Choose Date: 12 Jul 07 - 05:22 PM "I am intrigued as to why a group from Chile even wants to play Irish music" Because that's what they choose to do. It's all about choice, not kow-towing to the political flavour of the month, or pleasing some people's political persuasions
-Joe Offer- |
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Subject: RE: Banda Celtamericana in UK From: Folkiedave Date: 12 Jul 07 - 05:27 PM The words cage and rattle come to mind. "Intrigued" as in would like to find out more. Simple as that. Do questions like that never occur to you Lizzie? |
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Subject: RE: Banda Celtamericana in UK From: The Borchester Echo Date: 12 Jul 07 - 05:40 PM Hey, the CIA ate my post . . . They've now eaten it twice. Or maybe it's just 'disappeared'. That's what happens in Chile. Rather a lot. That's what they do. The CIA, y'know, and fascist thugs. What I wanted to do was to indicate to these Bushrangers which Route they could point some people along. Like the one to the football stadium. A fitting incarceration for those wilfully obtuse musical ignoramuses unable to see the point of opposing cultural imperialism and allowing indigenous cultures to flourish. Flavour of the month? The fascist coup, the murder of Allende and Popular Unity, of Jara and New Chilean Song was 34 years ago Kow-towing? How dare you insult those musicians who had their hands broken to prevent them from playing? A mere suggestion that a touring band might take the opportunity of clearly much-needed musical education in what was almost lost but is struggling back to life, and which is part of the band's repertoire results in a disgusting outpouring of vile fascist snarling worthy of the Thatch. Well, well. |
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Subject: RE: Banda Celtamericana in UK From: Joe Offer Date: 12 Jul 07 - 06:36 PM You know, where I come, from words like "bullshit," "crap," and calling another person names like "arrogant" and "dimwit" are what are referred to as "fighting words" - words that are intended to provoke anger and combat from one's opponent. I think it's time for that stuff to stop. Chill out. -Joe Offer- |
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Subject: RE: Banda Celtamericana in UK From: GUEST Date: 12 Jul 07 - 10:02 PM Bite me, Joe. Read the posts and you will see that these terms are appropriate. |
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Subject: RE: Banda Celtamericana in UK From: GUEST,Big Mick Date: 12 Jul 07 - 10:04 PM |
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Subject: RE: Banda Celtamericana in UK From: GUEST,Big Mick Date: 12 Jul 07 - 10:04 PM That post is from me on a hotel computer. |
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Subject: RE: Banda Celtamericana in UK From: Sooz Date: 13 Jul 07 - 02:35 AM I'd just like to sell a few tickets for the concert! |
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Subject: RE: Banda Celtamericana in UK From: GUEST,Ernesto Calderon Date: 13 Jul 07 - 05:47 AM Hello to everyone, I must start saying that i`m the accordion player of Banda Celtamericana. We`ve just arrived to the Uk yesterday after a long trip of more than 40 hours and 4 planes (we got one flight cancelled, phew). Fortunately, everything is OK now and we`re very happy of being here, with such beautiful landscapes (we`re staying at Sowerby Bridge), and we just played in the Worden Arts Centre (with Kimbers Man), and at least the people there liked our music very much! I found this forum just by luck, but it has been REALLY good for us to read what you say about our music. I personally think that everyone may be right with some points, and I hope I can explain myself well so you can also get my humble opinion. First of all, I must say that the band was born just as a "joke"... 5 years ago we had a "Tolkien Meeting" in our main city, Valparaiso, and people from all over Chile came to gather and celebrate JRR TOLKIEN`s work. There were a small group in the organisation who where music students (me included) and we decided to give them a surprise and we prepared some irish tunes to have a little more "ambience" on the party. Since there`s a lot of Tolkien fans in Chile and not very much irish-style bands there (well... about 10 now), we had a great success, since it was new music for most of the people (and still is) and things started to go better, we were invited to play in many places and we decided to go on with the band. After some time we recorded a CD (Puerto Celta) and did a tour around Chile, both with the support of the chilean government. At that time we were called "Puerto Celta" too, and we played mostly irish music. Why? because we liked it! But at that point we already started to use latin american instruments on it: charango, cajon peruano, zamponia, percussions, quena, etc. and then we changed our name to Banda Celtamericana (it explains by itself), because we started to add more and more latin american elements to our music, because we felt so. It`s part of what we are, as a chilean people, and we didn`t want to stop played folk music but just decided to play it in our own very personal way. |
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Subject: RE: Banda Celtamericana in UK From: GUEST,Ernesto Calderon Date: 13 Jul 07 - 05:49 AM Ok, that`s all I have to say about the band`s history (I hope you have enough patience to keep reading, if you hadn`t stop yet...). As for the comments, well, what can I say... I should thank some people for supporting us without even knowing us. As for Diane`s comments I would like to say ther the following: 1.- We like Flook, and we like the way they sound. It`s ok for us if you (and many more people) thinks we sound as them, as long it`s not maybe more than for a couple of tunes. They are a great inspiration for us, and we are going to have the chance to ask them what do they think about our work, because we`re going to play as special guests of them in the Fiddlers Green Festival in Rostrevor, Northern Ireland. You can check it on www.flook.co.uk , in their "tour dates" section. 2.- Our ages are between 21 and 30. That means that none of us were alive by the `73, and most of us were just childs or not even born when the "Junta Militar" made all those awful things. We`re a new generation, indeed we`ve not forgotten what they did and we feel very very close to the "Nueva cancion chilena" movement. I really apretiate your work with exiled chileans. Because of people like you many chileans found a new home in times that it was really difficult for them. 3.- I completely agree with you when you say that "that it would be of infinitely greater value for audiences on an overseas tour to hear the band's indigenous music rather than that which is all around them, polluting and diluting those still-extant traditions" (except for the words "polluting" and "diluting", it think we could find better words for our work). If you have the chance to go to our concert you will indeed hear some musical elements of some latin american cultures like the Mapuches, who are the chilean indios who lives in southern chile and fought against the spanish conquerers hundreds of years ago (now the fight against the chilean government but that`s another story). We are also opening our show with the "Danzas de Bailaviejo" set, which are dances from small villages in Mexico, that we specially arranged by listening original recordings made many years ago about them. 4.- Our new cd is based on the work of Gabriela Mistral, a chilean female poet (who won the Nobel Prize), and we use many of her poems in which she talks about the importance of our own heritage and the indigenous cultures. We combine elements of such cultures with the music we were already doing, now for 5 years. 5.- Finally, I must tell you that we`re doing workshops in 10 primary schools here in Yorkshire and we`re teaching songs from Violeta Parra and Victor Jara, as well as other chilean music. You would have been very impressed on how fast the kids from the Scout Road Junior School learnt yesterday the song "Que pena siente el alma" by Violeta Parra. We did teach them the guitar chords and the lyric so we hope they will someday want to know a little more about this great woman called Violeta. And the people who`s going to our concerts WILL have the chance to hear chilean Folk Music... you can count on it. If anyone wants to contact us please don`t hesitate in writing us at info@bandaceltamericana.cl It would be great also if you could talk more about music than politics, but are free to do what you want, so keep writing if you want to say something to us that you may want others to know. See ya, Ernesto Banda Celtamericana PD. By the way, we use the word "celtic" (we know it has a "commercial" origin) because that`s how the irish music is known in Chile and South America, and we also play music from another places which also have a "celtic heritage" such as Scotland, Galicia, Asturias and Bretagne. You can visit www.americacelta.com and check how many "celtic" bands are in S.A. |
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Subject: RE: Banda Celtamericana in UK From: GUEST,Sooz(hard at work) Date: 13 Jul 07 - 05:58 AM Looking forward to meeting you next Thursday Ernesto. |
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Subject: RE: Banda Celtamericana in UK From: Rasener Date: 13 Jul 07 - 06:43 AM Ernesto I think Dianne's comments on this thread are disgusting and may I say, does not reflect the views of most mudcatters. It is very kind of you to come on Mudcat and put your point of view and I wish you all a huge success whilst you are over here. Diane makes me feel ashamed to be a mudcatter. Sincerely Les Worrall |
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Subject: RE: Banda Celtamericana in UK From: katlaughing Date: 13 Jul 07 - 07:26 AM Ernesto, thank you very much for taking the time to write to us and for sharing so much. It is greatly appreciated. It sounds as though you are having a great time and doing good work with your music. I have to echo Villan's comments. It would have been better if this thread had not been turned into a grandstand for a very divisive person. Thank you, again, and have fun and a safe trip home. All the best, kat |
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Subject: RE: Banda Celtamericana in UK From: The Borchester Echo Date: 13 Jul 07 - 08:03 AM How extraordinary that the villainous villain thinks it 'disgusting' to honour and respect one's own cultural heritage and not be subsumed by corporate commercialism and globalised cultural vandalism. And how heartening to hear a young Chilean musician declaring that he has no intention of being conned down such a 'route' nor of abandoning his cultural 'roots'. So those hoping for a green beer and seaweed crisps, wall-to-wall jigs, reels and out-of-time bodhrán hooley will be disappointed. Good. The term 'celtic' is nowadays as outdated and discredited as the term 'f*lk' itself. It's way past its sell-by and of no use whatsoever and constitutes, in fact, an insult to musicians portraying the actual culture of supposedly Celtic regions. It really ought to be binned forthwith and forgotten. Ernesto says audiences on the tour will be listening to Chilean trad music. I am delighted that they will be. As Dave said higher up, there are more than enough fake Oirish bands here already without importing yet another. |
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Subject: RE: Banda Celtamericana in UK From: The Borchester Echo Date: 13 Jul 07 - 08:36 AM . . . forgot to clarify: 'polluting and diluting' referred to the seemingly all-pervasive, fake-Oirish, celticky, new-agey crap already dumbing down the tradition. Not this band's music which I haven't heard apart from a snatch (of an Irish tune) on YouTube. |
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Subject: RE: Banda Celtamericana in UK From: Georgiansilver Date: 13 Jul 07 - 07:23 PM And on and on and on she goes, Where she stops, nobody knows. You have no 'honour and respect' on mudcat for anyone but yourself and your own opinions Diane Easby. You have proved yourself to be a flamer, a troll, a sexist, degrading, know it all, who has become the source of ridicule in our backwoods area. Why don't you take your opinions to the people who may think they need them instead of inflicting them on beings who carry themselves with far more dignity and common sense than I have ever seen from you on here. Even your abusive language smacks of the childrens playground. Just go away and let decent people get on with their lives. |
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Subject: RE: Banda Celtamericana in UK From: GUEST,Ernesto (again) Date: 13 Jul 07 - 07:33 PM Thanks to everyone for their comments. We`ve just finished to play in Oltley and it was great, full of people who really enjoyed the concert, and also chilean people who danced with us. Please stop talking so bad about Diane. I know she didn`t want to be rude with us, instead telling us her opinion about what chilean bands could do... By the way, if you want to hear music from our latest cd, you can go to www.myspace.com/bandaceltamericana . There is plenty of chilean music that we play and it`s not there so don`t panic! Cheers, Ernesto Banda Celtamericana |
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Subject: RE: Banda Celtamericana in UK From: The Borchester Echo Date: 14 Jul 07 - 02:39 AM Oh dear. Chronic literacy deficit still rife out there in Much-Whining-By-The-Slurry-Pit. A musician from the band in question is perfectly aware of the importance of his music reflecting a sense of place and being rooted in his own community. Not so among certain swathes of unaware English punters who regard noise at their 'f*lk club' as a soundtrack to getting pissed and harassing women. It's why they tolerate, even enjoy, globalised McMusak and dumbed down, plasticised Oirish shit. If Banda Celtamericana is unfortunate enough to encounter persons of such meagre intellect and musical appreciation on their current tour, they should be aware that the English as a nation have scant regard for their own cultural heritage and use this lack as an excuse for disregarding the importance of that of anyone else. It's when they attempt to inflict their 'good-enough-for-f*lk' mantra on those concerned with musical excellence that their obnoxiouness gets tedious. |
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Subject: RE: Banda Celtamericana in UK From: Georgiansilver Date: 14 Jul 07 - 04:46 AM I am certain Guest Ernesto and friends are euphoric at the thought of not meeting you. To all members of the band Celtamericana. I look forward to hearing and seeing you on Thusrday night at Castle Hills....we are not all as narrow minded as the above 'self styled' critic. |
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Subject: RE: Banda Celtamericana in UK From: The Borchester Echo Date: 14 Jul 07 - 05:24 AM The dichotomy here is, of course, between those who define narrow/broad as a reflection of their own prejudices and those who take an overall world view. 'Broad' to the former appears to mean a mish-mash of mediocrity and dumbed-down MOR trash without regard for roots or relevance because they're not really listening anyway, just out for what they describe as 'a good time' To the latter, it represents due consideration for and appreciation of the history and background, musical and political, which in the case of Chile are obviously inextricably entwined. A 'self-styled critic' just wouldn't have got the gigs to make a living as a political and music journalist. Clearly, some of the above posters haven't read (or assimilated) any of my or anyone else's stuff that's out there. Until they do they're on shaky ground to take the view that I know not of that which I speak. |
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Subject: RE: Banda Celtamericana in UK From: The Borchester Echo Date: 14 Jul 07 - 05:51 AM A tad OT, but on BBC R4 right now there's a piece about music journalism. This was was preceded by Sandi Toksvig's holiday prog about festivals, featuring the Rainforest World Music Festival currently in progess in Borneo and Festival In The Desert with clips of Malian Tuareg, all without mindless ridicule, as has in the past been R4's Saturday a.m. wont. To the replayer then, all ye who think of trad as inane 'entertainment' divorced from real life and expect touring bands to pander to their (lack of) taste. And to Banda Celtamericana, don't be intimidated. Play the real thing and educate the masses. |
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Subject: RE: Banda Celtamericana in UK From: Big Al Whittle Date: 14 Jul 07 - 06:25 AM An interesting thread. I believe we all have the right to at least try be the sort of musician and songwriter that we want to be. Much of it is determined by the music we grow up with, or what we make a conscious effort to surround ourselves with, because for some unaccountable reason we emotionally identify with it. That old cliche of 'the global village'has never been more true. I was quite disappointed when I first heard Guy Clark - Jack Hudson of Derbyshire sings his songs so much better than he does. With Jack there is a unique shaft of melancholy in his interpretation, which is pure 'Derbyshire' - like a twist of lemon in a cocktail. I've heard several Irish people refer to Patrick Walker of Sheffield as 'the best Irish fiddler, outside of Ireland' - despite Patrick being a Sheffield lad. And who would have thought the world's greatest jazz guitarist would turn out to be a Belgian gypsy. Best of luck to you Sooz in promoting this concert. Bottom line, its about some people who are making a creative effort, and in the long run - that's the best thing for all of us, and the world. Diane is right, in that we DO need to be aware of where we are coming from. But I think with artists of talent - this emerges whether they want it to, or not. |
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Subject: RE: Banda Celtamericana in UK From: Georgiansilver Date: 14 Jul 07 - 06:38 AM Diane..you say..>>>>>>>>>>A 'self-styled critic' just wouldn't have got the gigs to make a living as a political and music journalist. Clearly, some of the above posters haven't read (or assimilated) any of my or anyone else's stuff that's out there. Until they do they're on shaky ground to take the view that I know not of that which I speak<<<<<<<<<. You not only wrongly made a totally wrong suggestion that I am some sort of pervert..so much so that a few of my good friends suggested I take a libel action against you as the literature you are so obviously proud of was libellous to say the least. You also suggested that people who live in and attend clubs in our area are a lot of backwoodsmen who fawn over women at gigs and have little appreciation of real music. You have made numerous personal remarks about other people on the cat who you have no real knowledge of. Everyone can see that you consider yourself to be some sort of authority on everything and everyone you write about and will not accept reasonable opinions from others. How come it is you who is saying Others are an shaky ground to take the view that you know not of that which you speak?. |
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Subject: RE: Banda Celtamericana in UK From: GUEST,sparticus Date: 14 Jul 07 - 07:13 AM Calm down Georgina. Once it gets personal you've lost the argument. Oh, and don't complain about the spelling of your name,it was intentional, as in your recent spelling of mine. Ernesto Good on you for coming here and putting your side of the story. Every success on the tour to you and your friends. Might catch you at Fiddlers Green in Rostreavor. Diane I love the way you fight your corner. Don't always agree but that's the way the world goes round. |
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Subject: RE: Banda Celtamericana in UK From: TheSnail Date: 14 Jul 07 - 07:28 AM This may seem very trivial compared with the weighty matters being discussed; on the other hand, it does concern cultural identity and the perception of the British Isles from a distance. First, thank you Ernesto for your calm and sensible presentation of your position. A few people on this list could take a lesson from you. One thing puzzles me though. You say Since there`s a lot of Tolkien fans in Chile and not very much irish-style bands there which is a curious connection. Tolkien's work is deeply rooted in Anglo-Saxon and Germanic mythology. The Shire is Southern England, specifically Oxfordshire. I wondered if Celtic music had been used for the films (which I haven't seen) but not according to Wikipedia. I have found samples of the soundtrack here (scroll down) and it sounds like early English light classical to me. I'm just curious to know why you felt that Irish music was appropriate for a "Tolkien Meeting". Could luck with your tour. I'm sure you'll find many appreciative people. |
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Subject: RE: Banda Celtamericana in UK From: Big Al Whittle Date: 14 Jul 07 - 07:32 AM "You also suggested that people who live in and attend clubs in our area are a lot of backwoodsmen who fawn over women at gigs and have little appreciation of real music." Speak for yourself - personally I am working on my 'fawning' technique. My method of 'ogling' isn't as intrusive as I would like. And the 'lecherous smirk', I have nearly perfected could still do with tightening up a notch. Oscar Wilde had trouble 'living up to his blue china', I still don't feel that I really inhabit my grubby mac with the panache of a true pervert. Little appreciation of music, but 'I've got rhythm'. |
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Subject: RE: Banda Celtamericana in UK From: Georgiansilver Date: 14 Jul 07 - 07:35 AM I am quite calm Guest Sparticass, losing arguments with losers is never an option. By the way the mis-spelling of the name was intentional. |
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Subject: RE: Banda Celtamericana in UK From: Big Al Whittle Date: 14 Jul 07 - 07:43 AM "Tolkien's work is deeply rooted in Anglo-Saxon and Germanic mythology. The Shire is Southern England, specifically Oxfordshire. I wondered if Celtic music had been used for the films (which I haven't seen) but not according to Wikipedia. I have found samples of the soundtrack here (scroll down) and it sounds like early English light classical to me. I'm just curious to know why you felt that Irish music was appropriate for a "Tolkien Meeting"." Surely not that much of a stretch. Wagner uses Celtic heroes in his opera does he not, and Joyce used references to Dublin's Viking past in Ulysses. Really they should have got Bono and Christy Moore to do the soundtrack. |
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Subject: RE: Banda Celtamericana in UK From: GUEST,sparticus Date: 14 Jul 07 - 08:01 AM Georginalivers I'll see your intentional mis-spelling and raise you another. |
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Subject: RE: Banda Celtamericana in UK From: Ruth Archer Date: 14 Jul 07 - 08:11 AM I'm intrigued by the interpretation of the Shire as Oxfordshire. Tolkien grew up in the West Midlands, and the area around Sarehole Mill near Birmingham is, I thought, understood to have inspired much of the Middle Earth landscape. There's a folly in Edgebaston that's supposed to have inspired the Two Towers. Not that I am remotely interested in Tolkein as a writer, but I am a pedant. And I also thought that Ernesto and his mates might like to visit some of the relevant locations while they're in England, as they obviously are into Tolkein's work. |
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Subject: RE: Banda Celtamericana in UK From: TheSnail Date: 14 Jul 07 - 08:51 AM Ruth Archer Tolkien grew up in the West Midlands, and the area around Sarehole Mill near Birmingham is, I thought, understood to have inspired much of the Middle Earth landscape. Hmmmm, if you say so, but still not very Irish. |
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Subject: RE: Banda Celtamericana in UK From: Ruth Archer Date: 14 Jul 07 - 09:42 AM No. But that's not the point I was trying to make. Ernesto, have a look at the following links. There are several sites accessable by public transport, which are thought to have inspired the Lord of the Rings. Maybe you could plan a visit while you're in the UK! http://www.bplphoto.co.uk/TolkiensBirmingham/ http://www.birmingham.gov.uk/tolkien.bcc http://www.virtualbrum.co.uk/tolkien_trail_start.htm "The most exciting thing for a young boy to see in the village of Sarehole was Sarehole Mill, which he refers to as 'the great mill' in The Hobbit . It stands on the River Cole, which rises near King's Norton and runs close by. It is said that Tolkien based the bad-tempered miller in The Lord of the Rings on the miller there, who perhaps understandably shouted at him and his younger brother when they were playing in the mill yard." "Though only four miles from the centre of Birmingham Sarehole was then in the north Worcestershire countryside. Coming from the hot dry veld of South Africa, the green fields and woods made a deep impression on him. Tolkien said that Sarehole was the model for the Shire, home of Bilbo in The Hobbit." "Many ideas originating from Tolkien's time in Birmingham surfaced in The Lord of the Rings, including the name Sam Gamgee who in the book was Frodo's faithful friend. Dr Joseph Sampson Gamgee was a Birmingham surgeon who invented a kind of cotton wool, known as the "Gamgee tissue". He also created a charity called The Birmingham Hospital Saturday Fund. His widow still lived in Stirling Road when the Tolkien brothers lodged there. A blue plaque on the Repertory Theatre in Centenary Square commemorates his former home on the site. " |
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Subject: RE: Banda Celtamericana in UK From: Big Al Whittle Date: 14 Jul 07 - 10:06 AM Birmingham, not very Irish......... Digbeth, The Coventry rd,....... On a forum where half the Eastern seaboard of the USA are claiming to pure shamrocks grow on their underpants, that's pretty rich! |
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Subject: RE: Banda Celtamericana in UK From: Lizzie Cornish Date: 14 Jul 07 - 10:13 AM Hi Ernesto, Great to see you in this thread! :0) Welcome to the UK and to the battling English Folkies..Don't worry about Diane, she's been raging at everyone for years and years...We love her really! ;0) Glad to hear you all enjoyed Otley, isn't it a lovely place, and the people there are so friendly. You may like this site too, if you get any chance to read it that is....Anyway, enjoy the rest of your tour and again, lovely to see you in here... From Sarehole To The Shire Take care Lizzie :0) |
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Subject: RE: Banda Celtamericana in UK From: TheSnail Date: 14 Jul 07 - 10:22 AM OK! OK! I concede on all points. The Shire is based on rural Worcestershire which is a Celtic nation so Ernesto's choice of Irish music to celebrate Tolkien is entirely appropriate. I think I'll go and lie down for a while. |
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