Play by 'ere me Lord, Play by ear?

Subject: Play by 'ere me Lord, Play by ear?
From: Mr Happy
Date: 07 Sep 07 - 12:36 PM

Some advice/ backup needed.

'Er indoors's been learning fiddle tunes et al from thec dots over these past several months, & is keen [but afraid] to join tune/song sessshes round our area.

I've always done all me instruments by ear & am not confined by dots.

I think she's at a big disadvantage with paper music [sure ok to learn the stuff] but imo listening then humming/whistling/ internalising's best then playing.

Wot tink da reat o'ye??

Subject: RE: Play by 'ere me Lord, Play by ear?
From: peregrina
Date: 07 Sep 07 - 01:07 PM

I'd really like some advice about this too--I've been learning from a great, but very written-music-oriented, guitar teacher.

Any specific tips on how to switch to being able to learn and play by ear would be most welcome. (I know how to make this switch for language learning, but I'm a slow-learning musician so 'just do it' ain't quite enough). Thanks in advance!

Subject: RE: Play by 'ere me Lord, Play by ear?
From: Leadfingers
Date: 07 Sep 07 - 01:14 PM

Being able to read music is a distinct advantage for learning new tunes , but being totally dependant on the dots to play is a serious drawback ! Ideally , being able to pick a tune up approximately by ear
and then using the dots to sort any queries is the best idea ¬

Subject: RE: Play by 'ere me Lord, Play by ear?
From: Peace
Date: 07 Sep 07 - 01:37 PM

I can read music--very laboriously. I've always played by ear. IMO, doing both is 'better' than doing just one or the other. As for the sessions, people on occasion get puffed up about them. Usually, talents range from poor to excellent. So making a mistake is NOT the end of civilization as we know it. If people don't have the decency and patience to help newer or 'greener' musicians, pee on 'em. It's likely a session you don't want to be at anyway.

Subject: RE: Play by 'ere me Lord, Play by ear?
From: GUEST,Don Firth
Date: 07 Sep 07 - 01:43 PM

Ideally, either way—both ways.

At first, because I couldn't read the dots, I had to learn songs by ear. I either had to hear someone else sing it, or I had to learn it from a record. But I had a stack of books by the Lomaxes, by Carl Sandburg, and by a bunch of others folks. If I'd heard a song a few times and got the tune in my ear, I might be able to get the words from one of my books—provided it was the same version—but there were hundreds of other songs in these books that I had no access to because I couldn't read the bloody dots! There it was, right in front of me and I couldn't get at it!

So I taught myself to read music. It isn't that difficult.

And I don't think anyone can tell by listening to the way I sing a song whether I learned it from a live singer, a record, or by reading the dots in a song book.

I do know people who have had music lessons, usually piano, who can read music quite well, but who are totally lost without it. I think a lot of this is the teacher's fault. It's fine for a teacher to insist that the student play the notes as written, first to get the exercise or the piece right, and secondly, to hone their reading skills. But as long as the student does that okay, I think it's a horrible mistake for the teacher to discourage a student from spending some time just messing around on the instrument, or to forbid it altogether. Pete Seeger is right. One of the ways to learn the capabilities of a musical instrument, and oneself—and this includes students who aspire to play classical music—is to "goof off:"   Play around. Experiment. Find out what you and the instrument can do.

But sometimes a person who learned to play by the notes, whether they had a hard-nosed teacher or not, comes unglued if you take the written music away from them because they're afraid they might make a mistake! That's a whole other problem; it's them, not the way they were taught. You have to try to convince them that, so what if they do play a real clanker? Or start out by fumbling a lot? It's not the end of the world. As long as they're not doing it in front of a capacity crowd in Carnegie Hall or Covent Garden, their goofs are not going to be written up in the papers by music reviewers. Nobody is going to point at them and laugh (well, maybe not).

I'd say, if you play strictly by ear and can't read music, you're limiting yourself badly. But if you have to have the music to be able to play, you're limiting yourself just as much. Put the music aside, listen to a record, or play something in your head, and then try to play it on the instrument. It's like shooting from the hip. At first, you miss a lot, but the more you do it, the more accurate you get.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: Play by 'ere me Lord, Play by ear?
From: Midchuck
Date: 07 Sep 07 - 02:12 PM

My lady ("Mizchuck") had classical-type piano training all through her childhood, but pretty much walked away from it on reaching adulthood.

She didn't do anything with instrumental music until her mid-forties, when she took up fiddle (not violin).

She learned fiddle pretty much entirely by ear. If she wanted to learn a tune that someone gave her in standard notation, she'd play it on the piano to learn the melody, so she could then play it on fiddle.

Seems logical to me.

Peter.

Subject: RE: Play by 'ere me Lord, Play by ear?
From: treewind
Date: 07 Sep 07 - 02:20 PM

If you've learned from the dots, at least make sure you've memorised the tune to play without the dots in a session.

As for learning by ear - the only way is to sit in a session and try to pick up tunes, a little bit at a time. Some people have a good built in skill for this. Others like me have taken a very long time to learn it. Just keep trying. It does get better.

I can often follow a tune after it's been played a few times, but I've forgotten every note of it two minutes later.

Anahata

Subject: RE: Play by 'ere me Lord, Play by ear?
From: MystMoonstruck
Date: 07 Sep 07 - 03:28 PM

I learned to read music as a student of, first, the chord organ then the double-keyboard organ. However, I would come home from a movie, with the music running through my mind, sit down at the organ and begin picking out those melodies, later finding the chords to go with them. I had a notebook for this. So, already I was comfortable with both. However, I might have been nervous if anyone had taken either type of music from me.

After a factory job, my Carpal Tunnel Syndrome worsened to the point where I no longer could play the organ. For years, I was without a musical outlet. I tried the guitar, pennywhistle and dulcimer, but I had troubles with all of them.

Twenty years later, I encountered the bowed psaltery at a Renaissance faire. The first time I held it, I could play a song ("The Silkie"). So, I splurged, hoping that I wouldn't regret it. When I opened the traditional songbooks I had used long ago, I was shocked to discover that I no longer could read music! So, I taught myself to do it again and began learning songs. Practicing in a local park, I had to struggle with setting up a book to learn songs from. One breezy day, I was tired of fighting with the pages and decided to try playing without looking at music. I could! Then, when I couldn't find the songs in print that I wanted to learn, I started listening to music and discovered that I still could play by ear.

I think it's handy to know how to read music, and it's wonderful to be able to play by ear. It's a plus if you don't need the sheet music/book in front of you. By the way: If you read music and are looking at a songbook, you mentally can sound out tunes or even compare versions.

Subject: RE: Play by 'ere me Lord, Play by ear?
From: Ron Davies
Date: 07 Sep 07 - 10:06 PM

Wonderful title. Even better than "Joan Baez, my Lord, Joan Baez..."

I read music--but in a session I don't even want to see a music sheet.   It's always good if they do tell you what key the tune will be in--but you can't assume they will. Most important is to listen very carefully--and hope the tune is played enough times so you can figure out how it goes. It's likely going to end on the tonic (keynote) so that helps. See if you can figure out what the high note is. That also helps. And the rhythm--that's essential. Then try to pick out patterns--and copy them. But don't fall behind the beat. Much better to leave out notes--just don't drag down the group's tempo.

Maybe between tunes, if there is sheet music you can glance at it--but not while playing. I find sessions with sheet music are deadly dull--or just deadly to the music--no life whatsoever.

The approach is the opposite of playing in a string quartet.

This is a roundabout way of saying--listen to Leadfingers-- though he's not Cyril, he said it all.

Subject: RE: Play by 'ere me Lord, Play by ear?
From: Mr Happy
Date: 09 Sep 07 - 11:18 AM

Further, the missus's been listening/watching tune on YouTube & was getting a lot frustrated'cos the various artistes & their performance arrangements didn't match her scores.

A good object lesson, I thought, 'cos it illustrates well how stuff's performed in live sesshes.

Since I & othe chums've pointed this out, she's experimenting with transposition in order to play stuff in a number of different keys.