The Hangman's Reel

Subject: Jean-Luc Carignan - The Hangman's Reel
From: GUEST,edthefolkie
Date: 12 Sep 07 - 11:18 AM

This tune has surfaced as a rarity in a Fairport Convention box. The notes say that the band learned it "from a Quebec taxi driver".

Various people including Aly Bain have recorded it. From the very dusty corners of my memory (around 1970!), I seem to remember that Dave Swarbrick said the French Canadian gent was Jean-Luc Carignan.

A quick Google didn't reveal Mr. Carignan - any of you erudite people heard of him?

Subject: RE: The Hangman's Reel
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 12 Sep 07 - 11:23 AM

The session gives 46 responses and lots of background

http://www.thesession.org/

Subject: RE: The Hangman's Reel
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 12 Sep 07 - 11:24 AM

Yup, I have the track on a Folk Festival at Newport LP, he plays it with great gusto, and sounds like he is tap dancing at the same time, a la Natalie McMaster.
He was a Quebec Taxi driver, and died some time ago.
Giok

Subject: RE: The Hangman's Reel
From: Fred McCormick
Date: 12 Sep 07 - 11:30 AM

Well, step dancing, not tap dancing. There is a film made by Pete Seeger called The Country Fiddler. It features Jean Carignan playing the fiddle and doing dance steps while seated. I don't know whether he ever played and danced standing up but the Sligo fiddler, Michael Coleman certainly did. I seem to recall that Jerry Holland did the same thing.

Subject: RE: The Hangman's Reel
From: GUEST,edthefolkie
Date: 12 Sep 07 - 11:41 AM

Thanks guys - unbelievably quick response.

Up to now I've only had an openreel recording of Swarb playing this which I recorded off the radio. He absolutely attacked it and left it gasping on the floor, as only Swarb can, but I don't think he tap danced!

Never thought of looking on The Session but will when I get home (I'm supposed to be working now). Thanks again!

Subject: RE: The Hangman's Reel
From: Beer
Date: 12 Sep 07 - 11:46 AM

Ti-Jean Carignan passed away a few years back and he is still considered one of Quebec's finest. His buddy Gilles Losier (piano player)is still around and doing well. Google both Ti-Jean and Gilles and you will find stuff on both.
They came one year while I was working in the entertainment side of things at the Psychiatric hospital. What a great great show they put on for the patients.
Beer (adrien)

Subject: RE: The Hangman's Reel
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 12 Sep 07 - 12:19 PM

sounds like it goes with a swing!

Subject: RE: The Hangman's Reel
From: Effsee
Date: 12 Sep 07 - 12:28 PM

I believe the original title was "La reel du pondu", hope that's the right way of it in French. More properly known as "The Hanged Man's Reel", the pizzicato bits meant to represent the aforesaid's "Dance of death" befrore expiring.

Subject: RE: The Hangman's Reel
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 12 Sep 07 - 02:08 PM

I was at a concert where Dave Swarthout played this. He told the story about the French Canadian fiddler who is challenged to play something so great that he will not be hanged. The fiddler played this remarkable piece and was saved.

Then Dave said, "Actually it's Norwegian."

Having listened to Norwegian fiddle, I can believe it.

As for the supposed "dance of death," I have to wonder about the motives of people who take malicious glee in imposing morbid images on enjoyable pieces of music.

Subject: RE: The Hangman's Reel
From: Effsee
Date: 12 Sep 07 - 02:12 PM

Wonder away Leeneia, I'm just repeating what I heard on a radio broadcast around 30 years ago.

Subject: RE: The Hangman's Reel
From: Dave Sutherland
Date: 12 Sep 07 - 02:19 PM

Beware, I got flashed for speeding while listening to Aly Bain playing it about five years ago!

Subject: RE: The Hangman's Reel
From: The Doctor
Date: 12 Sep 07 - 02:30 PM

I first heard this played by Bobby Campbell, as a member of the Exiles, when I was at college in the mid 60s, and it's on their LP 'The Hale and the Hanged'. More recently Nancy Kerr recorded it on Steely Water, but her version is different from his. Whether either is the same as any already mentioned I don't know, but it's certainly a great piece.

Subject: RE: The Hangman's Reel
From: Effsee
Date: 12 Sep 07 - 03:13 PM

Doctor, thanks for that! The memory comes back now, it was the Exiles version I heard all those years ago on radio...nearly 40 years ago!

Subject: RE: The Hangman's Reel
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 12 Sep 07 - 03:24 PM

Yes, the Exiles (Gordon McCulloch, Enoch Kent and Bobby Campbell) recorded it on a Topic LP in the early 1960s.
Bobby Campbell was the fiddler and he died a few years ago.
We were both reporters on the same newspaper at the time and he said he learned it directly from Jean-Luc Carignan.

Subject: RE: The Hangman's Reel
From: GUEST,petr
Date: 12 Sep 07 - 03:27 PM

The tune has its own special tuning which is only used for this tune
I cant remember it myself but I know the A is tuned to C#

the story goes that a man was in jail and sentenced to hang
he was given a fiddle and told to tune it and write a tune.
As he didnt really know the tuning of a fiddle he tuned to what seemed right to him and composed the hanged mans reel..
and supposedly he didnt hang..

I have heard somewhere - that there is a connection to Macphersons Rant or Lament - a Scottish song about a fiddler (and Highwayman?) who is betrayed by a woman and sentenced to hang -

and also one other cd I have which plays this tune (sorry I cant remember the name either) but Ill try to look it up, says that there is a connection between the Hanged Mans reel and the old time fiddle tune the Lost Indian (they do have similarities).

Subject: RE: The Hangman's Reel
From: Effsee
Date: 12 Sep 07 - 08:14 PM

Having thought a bit more about your comment Leeneia...."As for the supposed "dance of death," I have to wonder about the motives of people who take malicious glee in imposing morbid images on enjoyable pieces of music."...have you noticed the title of this piece?

Subject: RE: The Hangman's Reel
From: Art Thieme
Date: 12 Sep 07 - 09:13 PM

Once again, you can see photographs I took of Jean Carignan at the second or third University Of Chicago Folk Festival in 1962 or 1963 at:

http://rudegnu.com/art_thieme.html

He was an amazing fiddler. From the stage, he said that it is often traditional in Quebec for a fiddlers to play seated and tap their feet in that rhythmic manner. I still have his performance of this song as recoded by radio station WFMT-FM in Chicago way back in those halcyon times.

One of my photos is of Mr. Carignan at Mandel Hall during a main evening concert. The other shot is a not very sharp photo of him with Tracy Schwarz during an afternoon workshop at Ida Noyes Hall on that campus. Also visible in the photo, standing against the wall and watching intently, is KENNY BAKER, the great fiddler with Bill Monroe and the Bluegrass Boys who was also at that good festival. --- Look carefully and you'll see that Jean Carignan is playing sort of a Dobro-style fiddle. Instead of a standard hollow fiddle body the sound is amplified by a horn-like wind instrument appendage. I'd never seen anything like that before.
Art Thieme

Subject: RE: The Hangman's Reel
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 12 Sep 07 - 09:38 PM

Mr. Carignan, thank goodness, can still be heard on CD. Available from CAMSCO, of course.

Subject: RE: The Hangman's Reel
From: DADGBE
Date: 12 Sep 07 - 10:51 PM

Gilles Lozier and Jean Carignan came to the Fox Hollow festive one year. I had an instrument repair booth at the festival and wound up doing some work for them. We spent two days sharing tunes - a memorable event even after all these years

Subject: RE: The Hangman's Reel
From: Art Thieme
Date: 13 Sep 07 - 12:55 AM

J. Carignan came to that U. of Chicago Fest with Allan Mills who did a set first and then introduced Carignan. If I am remembering correctly, all the English Language introductions were done by Mills.

Art Thieme

Subject: RE: The Hangman's Reel
From: Cluin
Date: 13 Sep 07 - 01:10 AM

Ti-Jean Carignan didn't write le Reel du Pendu; it's Qubecois traditional. But he did bring it to a wide audience and popularize it. As has been said, it is played on a fiddle in open A tuning and often accompanied with foot percussion.

To do the foot percussion, you need a fast reel. While seated, your right foot goes heel, toe, heel, toe, back and forth. The left foot hits the up beat between the toe to heel movement. Kind of sounds like that horse-galloping sound people make on their laps with two hans. Same beat.

Subject: RE: The Hangman's Reel
From: Cluin
Date: 13 Sep 07 - 01:14 AM

Hans and Hans... GET OFF my lap!

Subject: RE: The Hangman's Reel
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 13 Sep 07 - 02:12 AM

According to Aly Bain [ The Magic Fiddle ] who learned the tune from Jean Carignan it is in fact a Norwegian tune called ' The Devils Polka '

eric

Subject: RE: The Hangman's Reel
From: Sugwash
Date: 13 Sep 07 - 05:58 AM

You can download a Ti-Jean Carignan album (or, indeed, single tracks) from ITunes. There's also quite a few other Quebecoise players including Jos Bouchard; fabulous stuff.

Subject: RE: The Hangman's Reel
From: Bob the Postman
Date: 13 Sep 07 - 08:24 AM

Several versions of la Reel du Pendu available from Virtual Gramophone.

Subject: RE: The Hangman's Reel
From: GUEST,Jonny Sunshine
Date: 13 Sep 07 - 08:25 AM

In the version of the story I heard, the plinky bits (and the incomplete bars) were the result of shaking fingers, the result of understandable nerves!

I used to play it on the banjo in open C, which works very well. Now, what would have happened if the executioner had handed him a banjo?

Subject: RE: The Hangman's Reel
From: Beer
Date: 13 Sep 07 - 08:28 AM

Don't know much about the new fiddlers but my dad from Prince Edward Island always told me you could tell an Island fiddler by the way he kept time with his feet. Again it was sitting and "Heel to Toe". I know quit a few old time fiddlers that I accompany in the south western part of the province and I've never seen this heel to toe done. Maybe in the eastern part along the St. Lawrence on the way to the Maritimes. I must look up to see where Te-Jean was born.
Beer (adrien)

Subject: RE: The Hangman's Reel
From: GUEST,Stewart
Date: 13 Sep 07 - 09:50 AM

I had the distinct pleasure of attempting to backup Mr. Carrignan at a school auditorium in Ormstown, Quebec in the late fifties. I was strumming a D18 and there was no way in hell I could follow this amazing fiddler. He played standing as I recall. I also saw him a few years later playing with a string quartet on a CBC TV program. Truly a great musician.
Stewart

Subject: RE: The Hangman's Reel
From: Mr Happy
Date: 13 Sep 07 - 10:21 AM

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=ZYZgHpCR9DI

Subject: RE: The Hangman's Reel
From: GUEST,Stewart
Date: 13 Sep 07 - 11:35 AM

Neat little "dulcijo". Is it strung like a dulcimer with 3 courses?
Stewart

Subject: RE: The Hangman's Reel
From: Mr Happy
Date: 13 Sep 07 - 11:38 AM

http://ezfolk.com/dulcijo/

Subject: RE: The Hangman's Reel
From: Beer
Date: 13 Sep 07 - 12:26 PM

Guest Stewart, I live in Ormstown and manny folk around still talk about Ti-Jean. He born near Quebec City,the Levis area. This could explain his toe to heel as to my knowledge this is not a Quebec style but more of an Acadian one. This could be openning a whole new topic and I don't mean to railroad this thread Guest edthefolkie.

Subject: RE: The Hangman's Reel
From: GUEST,Stewart
Date: 13 Sep 07 - 03:49 PM

Beer, I played at a tavern every saturday night somewhere there in Ormstown. Made all of $13 a night when the pay was split. This would be from say 1958 to 1962. What with buying beer all night and stopping for barbeque chicken in Chateauguay on the way home, there was nothing left of the $13.

Mr. Happy, I've tried to contact the Dulcijo folks to inquire if they make a lefty model. Can't seem to get through. Have you got the secret password?

Stewart

Subject: RE: The Hangman's Reel
From: Bob the Postman
Date: 13 Sep 07 - 06:52 PM

So, Beer, how do the Quebecois make that galloping sound, if it's not heel-and-toe? Can you break down the movements like Cluin did above? That sitting-down clogging stuff is one of the things I really love about French Canadian folk music.

Subject: RE: The Hangman's Reel
From: GUEST,Stewart
Date: 13 Sep 07 - 07:23 PM

Mr. Postman, if I may horn in on the question you ask Beer, I have seen the fiddlers doing what you mention. It is a style quite predominant in Quebec on the north shore of the St. Lawrence. They sit with a piece of plywood under their feet and dance away in syncopation with the fiddle. Some great effects I might add.
Stewart

Subject: RE: The Hangman's Reel
From: Beer
Date: 13 Sep 07 - 09:50 PM

Bob, I wish I could help you on this but I simply can't. All I can remember is when Dad sat and started playing his two feet were going as fast as the bow was. When I was a wee tot i would at times sneak up to him and place my foot on top of his and he would immediately stop and pretend to swipe me with the bow. I would duck and run like hell. Man, I still can see him doing it. My eldest brother plays the fiddle (65) and the same style as dad but not as well. Yet the heel to toe is right on.
Beer (adrien)

Subject: RE: The Hangman's Reel
From: GUEST,captain sensible
Date: 14 Sep 07 - 10:00 AM

"The tune has its own special tuning which is only used for this tune
I cant remember it myself but I know the A is tuned to C# "

I'd NEVER subject my A-string, let alone my fiddle, to such stresses!
:-(

Subject: RE: The Hangman's Reel
From: GUEST,captain S
Date: 14 Sep 07 - 10:18 AM

Upon further investigation, it appears that the usual alternative tuning for this is A-E-A-C# (ie the E string is tuned down to C#)

Now THAT's a better idea!

Subject: RE: The Hangman's Reel
From: MissouriMud
Date: 14 Sep 07 - 03:16 PM

Interesting - in reviewing the Fiddlers Companion entry on this tune, the 4 part tune with which I am familiar (and often accompany on guitar) from the more recent recordings of Kirk Sutphin and John McCutcheon (listed as Hangmans Reel [1]) is noted to be most likely a Virginia derivitave of the French Candadian tune - listed as "The Hanged Man's Reel". Obviously I need to hear the "reel" thing to see how far the derivitive has strayed.

Subject: RE: The Hangman's Reel
From: Bob the Postman
Date: 14 Sep 07 - 04:14 PM

MissouriMud, check out the link I posted above Sept 13 8:24. Search for Reel du Pendu.

Subject: RE: The Hangman's Reel
From: MissouriMud
Date: 14 Sep 07 - 05:46 PM

Amazingly different from what we play.   I could hear a familiar phrase here and there but not much more resemblance than I can hear between nearly any two reels.   If one played both tunes back to back I dont think too many people would accuse you of playing the same thing twice.

Subject: RE: The Hangman's Reel
From: Cluin
Date: 15 Sep 07 - 08:39 PM

Not all practioners of the heel/toe foot percussion use their toe, though. Many use their heel or the flat of their foot on both beats, but the motion is the same back-and-forth action.

It is much harder to describe than to actually do. I can pull it off quite well, but I can't stepdance for shit.

Subject: RE: The Hangman's Reel
From: Azizi
Date: 16 Sep 07 - 08:29 PM

Somewhat off topic, but for what it's worth, the dancehall {reggae} dance "heel & toe" is currently the latest re-occurance of the African & African Diaspora heel & toe dance step. A much earlier version of that dance step is immortalized in the song/dance movement "Jump Jim Crow".

Here's a YouTube video of the Dancehall STEP Heel & Toe:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C4AIaEjfJwc&mode=related&search=

Added: February 03, 2007
From: DHnounours

**

An idea of what a traditional heel & toe dance may [have] looked like can be seen in this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g2icyoICx18&NR=1

Added: July 21, 2007
From: ronzta
"Song and Dance for Orisha Elegba from the 17th annual African Street Festival"

**

A commentator on this video's "thread" wrote that the dance that African American followers of the traditional Yoruba {Nigeria} religious Orisha {god} Elegba {The Lord of the Cross roads} are doing is called "heel/toe". That commentator also suggested that the "holy dance" that people do when they "get happy" {"feel the spirit"} in santified churches and other churches is a form of the heel & toe dance.

Note that I am not saying that other heel toe dances necessarily come from this same source. I'm sharing this information in case there may be some folks here who may be interested in it.

Subject: RE: The Hangman's Reel
From: Beer
Date: 16 Sep 07 - 10:10 PM

This thread is getting really interesting. Just before Azizi post I was thinking about something Dad said to me. Now these are not his exact words but just so you get the idea.
"Adrien, you can always pick out a P.E.I. fiddler from an Cape Breton one by the movement of his (her) feet. P.E.I. is heel to toe and a Caper is Heel only". This may have been true at one time but I don't think so now. Natalie MacMaster will do heel to toe as well as Ashley. But just maybe it was so back then. I certainly do not profess my self as any expert in the field of fiddling except as to what I have heard and seen over the years. And, I have often wondered about the origins of such differences in styles from one place to the next. As per example, Big John McNeil will be played different from 50 miles away and then different again 50 miles further. Maybe that tune is a poor example. But you fiddlers out there know what I mean.
I think that someone in University doing a thesis in music would find this to be an interesting challenge. God knows where it would lead them.
Beer (adrien)

Subject: RE: The Hangman's Reel
From: Beer
Date: 17 Sep 07 - 09:20 PM

refresh

Subject: RE: The Hangman's Reel
From: Cluin
Date: 17 Sep 07 - 11:07 PM

And strathspeys are played really quickly downeast, because they are played for stepdancers, not country dancers.

Subject: RE: The Hangman's Reel
From: GUEST,petr
Date: 18 Sep 07 - 12:26 PM

also off topic, but Jean-Claude Berthiaume the french canadian step dancer and caller who's toured with a number of bands .. Mentioned that some years ago he went to Ireland and wanted to study Irish stepdancing - the teacher said have you got a year or so to stay?

In the middle of the dance class - while he was doing his thing in the back - the teacher came over and looked and said do you realize what youre doing? thats sean-nos dancing (which had pretty much disappeared in Ireland) it was more relaxed and low to the ground..

So they spent quite a bit of time filming and studying Jean Claude's dancing and - hes even been recorded for posterity demonstrating the old style of dancing that has survived in Quebec.

Subject: RE: The Hangman's Reel
From: SimonS
Date: 18 Sep 07 - 02:42 PM

Here is the Jean Carignan version. Its the same version Nancy Kerr plays, where some of the others on youtube seem like different (but loosely related) tunes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=07ONSE1nn64

Subject: RE: The Hangman's Reel
From: Beer
Date: 18 Sep 07 - 03:12 PM

Thanks SimonS.
That was great.

Subject: RE: The Hangman's Reel
From: SimonS
Date: 18 Sep 07 - 04:28 PM

I missed this on first glance too. A jittery Scott Skinner tune (the sound gets better about half way through).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xcz1EVf-dUs&mode=related&search=