Tech: How to wipe an old computer hard drive?

Subject: Tech: How to wipe an old computer hard drive?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 17 Sep 07 - 07:17 PM

I have an ancient notebook computer, an Acer Acernote Light 350 that is collecting dust. It can't do much these days, it ran on Win 95 and then Win 98, it was a real workhorse as far as the work I had to do on it (I wrote my MA thesis, among other things). It has the best feeling computer keyboard I've ever used. It could operate early versions of the Microsoft office programs and it still plays a mean game of solitaire (though the screen is pretty small and the game about fills it.)

The battery is stone cold dead, and when this is the case, this computer doesn't work. I've encountered it before. Thing is, I'd like to put it on eBay to move it along to a refurbisher, but I don't want to buy a new battery so I can format the hard drive, but I don't want to send the hard drive if it hasn't been thoroughly wiped. I copied the contents years ago but didn't delete them (actually, there are two hard drives, the original held about as much as a CD does today, and the "new" one held much less than a garden-variety DVD, about 2 gig). If I could turn it on, I could do multiple formats of the hard drive (someone said seven times will do it). I have the power cord but as long as there is a dead battery it doesn't do me any good. I can't reach the hard drives to wipe them and reinstall the operating system and drivers.

Is there some other way to clear these out and install the system without their being in the computer? Or even just to clean them and let someone else reinstall the OS. Maybe attach them to a box or something to securely clean then reinstall them? I have hard drives in external enclosures on my big desktop, but has anyone used an external enclosures for a notebook on a desktop and tried what I'm suggesting? I could probably borrow one of those from someone at work.

I know I'll probably have more success moving this old computer along if I can sell the hard drives with it. I don't expect to get much money for it, but I'd rather give someone a shot at reuse before I give it to the folks who grind them up.

Any thoughts?

SRS

Subject: RE: Tech: How to wipe an old computer hard drive?
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 17 Sep 07 - 08:37 PM

If you can remove the hard drive and install it in someone else's computer, you could reformat it there seven or however many times, I think. Then reinstall it in yours and sell it. I think that should work.

Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: Tech: How to wipe an old computer hard drive?
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 17 Sep 07 - 08:45 PM

Stilly -

Multiple formats, regardless of number, isn't really a reliable way of erasing everything. A format generally writes only the "index bits" in each cluster, and the remaining "data bits" are still there unchanged. In the Win95/98 era, I've formatted drives and found all previously existing data fully usable, much less "extractable" via techitools. The only method accepted by the supersleuths is to write every bit on the drive multiple times with different data for each write.

In olden times - when your laptop was new - Norton Utilities included a utility called "wipedisk" that could do the job, if you used either of a couple of "secure" options. One of the options wrote "all ones" followed by "all zeros" followed by "010101..." followed by "101010..." with the whole series of writes repeated, as I recall, five or more times.

I don't know whether anything similar is included in current versions of anything from Norton, as I haven't seen anything but the security (AV etc) stuff recently. Any program capable of doing a "proper erasure" would almost certainly need to run in DOS or some other OS, since Windows versions within historical memory all limit the direct hardware access required to "write all the bits" in specific locations.

You could, perhaps, just copy lots of "junk" files, multiple times - erasing and copying in a different order to "splatter" the same junk all over the disk, but it sounds rather tedious and unproductive to me; and it would be difficult to confirm that you'd achieved what you want(?).

You might be able to talk someone into running the drives through a clinic's MRI machine, since the magnetic field strengths are high enough to scramble almost anything magnetic; but of course you'd still have to confirm that it worked ....

Given the extremely marginal value of hard drives of the kind you have, recycling is not a particularly productive activity. (One can get 2GB flash drives for a very few bucks.) If you have any reservations about there being the possibility of "sensitive" information, the best "eraser" is probably a large hammer used repeatedly until all the physical parts reach some suitable maximum size, or give them to "the folks who grind them up."

John

Subject: RE: Tech: How to wipe an old computer hard drive?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 17 Sep 07 - 08:51 PM

Notebooks usually only have one hard drive, so removing someone else's and running format on this sounds like it would be more complicated than a simple swap. If someone had a notebook and an expansion compartment, then it could work.

Has anyone used a 2.5 inch notebook enclosure with a computer that is accustomed to driving 3.5 inch desktop enclosures? A laptop operates on a battery or with an adaptor. A desktop operates with household current. I don't think those are interchangeable as far as devices on computers. Correct? I don't suppose any of these come in an AC/DC format?

Electricity is not my strong suit.

SRS

Subject: RE: Tech: How to wipe an old computer hard drive?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 17 Sep 07 - 09:01 PM

Cross-posted with John.

You've stated what I figured was the case. I was hoping someone might have a device that would do this easily or a program that does it fast. Remember, these are tiny little hard drives, it wouldn't take long (except of course that the OS and chips are very slow).

I'll probably offer it up as parts or to be refurbished with out the HD, like I first planned. I'm a recycler going way back, so until this has had a chance to maybe get used once more in some way, I won't send it to the annual campus computer recycling truck.

Or I suppose I could buy a battery to see if the dead battery really is the culprit, run it with the power cable so the battery isn't used much, load up the disks with ones and zeros, then return the battery after a day or two of essentially renting it. Not the most ethical solution, but one that might answer a couple of questions. Will it work with a battery? Is it just the battery that was bad?

Hmmm.

SRS

Subject: RE: Tech: How to wipe an old computer hard drive?
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 17 Sep 07 - 09:24 PM

It is not worth re-sale and postage.

Take a ball-pean hammer - smash it good - smash it grand - send it over to the promised land.

Sincerely,
Gargoyle

Too cheap to buy new juice???? What's the use?

Subject: RE: Tech: How to wipe an old computer hard drive?
From: Amos
Date: 17 Sep 07 - 10:58 PM

You could try a large electromagnet such as used to be used for bulk-erasing tapes back in the day.

Ya know, though, Still, the time you have already spent and will spend on this old thing you could write a treatment for a novel and sell it.

For a bit more dough!


A

Subject: RE: Tech: How to wipe an old computer hard drive?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 17 Sep 07 - 11:43 PM

It hasn't been that much bother, get out a few boxes and drop stuff in. But the question arose regarding the hard drive because if someone wants to refurbish (and as absurd as that seems, I find these out there for sale as refurbished models!) I figure I'll give it a shot. This is the computer I wrote my thesis on, I paid thousands of dollars for it. Why not sell it for .99 and shipping on eBay if someone wants to give it a new lease on life?

SRS

Subject: RE: Tech: How to wipe an old computer hard drive?
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 18 Sep 07 - 12:37 AM

Stilly -

It is still possible to get a "USB Case" for a 2.5" drive that you can put any hard drive in^** and connect to any computer with a USB port.

I wouldn't consider it worth the effort to salvage an obsolete drive, but a 2.5" case could be used to make a serviceable external USB HD for use with another computer if a (new?) 2.5" drive with useful capacity happens along.

^** EIDE and the newer/current SATA hard drives require different boxes. USB boxes for EIDE HDs are fairly easily available now, although those for 3.5" drives are most common and you might have to hunt around to find one for 2.5" drives. I'm not positive, but I believe that 2.5" and 3.5" hard drives use different pin spacings and hence require different connectors(?). USB boxes for SATA hard drives are rumored to exist, but are not available in my local retail outlets as yet.

John

Subject: RE: Tech: How to wipe an old computer hard drive?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 18 Sep 07 - 01:01 AM

This is so old it doesn't have any USB ports. :-/

Subject: RE: Tech: How to wipe an old computer hard drive?
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 18 Sep 07 - 01:10 AM

I was assuming you could remove the HD, put it in a box, and connect the box to another computer that has a USB port available. Once you've got a connection to a functional computer, you can copy/delete/format etc as needed to get it ready to take out of the box and put back into the old computer.

If your HD happens to be a "special" designed to slip into a peculiar slot in the laptop, you may not be able to close the box; but if it's got the right connector(s) for a standard 2.5" HD you could leave the lid off the USB box.

?

John

Subject: RE: Tech: How to wipe an old computer hard drive?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 18 Sep 07 - 01:25 AM

BTW John I happened to turn up in the junk box an old 'floppy hard drive' external case (externally big enough to take a 5 inch drive!) - might even be a "DunnyDoor"¹!!... if it's not a PC compatible - wonder what the connections are in that? :-)

¹ Commodore...

Subject: RE: Tech: How to wipe an old computer hard drive?
From: treewind
Date: 18 Sep 07 - 03:10 AM

Boot up a Knoppix or other live CD linux system.
Open a command line.

$ dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/hda

if you want to be really thorough, follow that with
$ dd if=/dev/random of=/dev/

Subject: RE: Tech: How to wipe an old computer hard drive?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 18 Sep 07 - 05:02 AM

I'm a bit surprised the computer won't run even on the mains. If that could be solved the rest would not be too hard - I think I have a very old Norton Tools somewhere (I might even have one that runs in 3.1 or dos, unless I chucked it).

Is the spec of the battery known? If it's the same voltage as any common portable electric drill battery there might be an easy bodge to get the thing to run - ie disconnect old battery, run fly-lead to charged electric drill battery and start "Our father, which art...."

Subject: RE: Tech: How to wipe an old computer hard drive?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 18 Sep 07 - 06:56 AM

In fact if it has a floppy, which it probably does at that age, if it would run you could boot from a floppy and fdisk

Subject: RE: Tech: How to wipe an old computer hard drive?
From: john f weldon
Date: 18 Sep 07 - 07:36 AM

The "large industrial magnet" theory won't work, I've tried. The ball-peen hammer will, and is also my recommendation.

Subject: RE: Tech: How to wipe an old computer hard drive?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 18 Sep 07 - 01:34 PM

The HDs are set aside, all of the rest can go as parts.

I see that Google Ads are offering solutions at the bottom of the page.

Subject: RE: Tech: How to wipe an old computer hard drive?
From: Jack Campin
Date: 18 Sep 07 - 05:39 PM

How much data can be recovered depends on how much your data is worth to the new owner and what their resources are.

The NSA has succeeded in recovering data from disks that have had .303 bullets fired through them.

Melting the thing in a furnace ought to work.

Subject: RE: Tech: How to wipe an old computer hard drive?
From: beardedbruce
Date: 18 Sep 07 - 05:43 PM

Sanding the coating off the platters, or melting them, is the best method. Almost as good ( some slight residual magnatism possible) is to dissolve the coating off the platters with solvent.

(former AISSR)

Subject: RE: Tech: How to wipe an old computer hard drive?
From: beardedbruce
Date: 18 Sep 07 - 05:47 PM

BTW, deleting it, or even reformatting, DOES NOT remove the data.

One has to overwrite the files ( we used a series of overwrites, first all ones, then all zeros, then repeated 01s, then repeated 10s, then 010s, 101s, and finally all ones again.

Subject: RE: Tech: How to wipe an old computer hard drive?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 18 Sep 07 - 06:12 PM

An eBay newby has bid on the computer and the manual. 2 bucks so far on this proposition . . . no hard drive included.

The campus where I work has a contract with a company that destroys the data before recycling various types of electronic media stuff. I'll take them over there. Don't want my thesis falling into the wrong hands. . .

SRS

Subject: RE: Tech: How to wipe an old computer hard drive?
From: GUEST,Nicholas Waller
Date: 18 Sep 07 - 06:21 PM

"This is so old it doesn't have any USB ports. :-/" - Stilly

You could still use your old HDD in an external USB-powered enclosure and connected to new computer, which presumably does have USB. Then you could reformat/re-write data over it to your heart's content &c and return it to your old notebook, bearing in mind what people said above, or keep it as extra storage.
http://www.misco.co.uk/applications/searchtools/item-Details.asp?EdpNo=275993&sourceid=2003 for an example external case.

I've used an external enclosure to make use of a 20GB and then a 40Gb HD when I have upgraded my powerbook hard drive to bigger sizes, so they are useful. But it would be quite a bit of faffing about in order to rescue a 2GB drive, esp as there are now 10 GB and more flash drives available.

Subject: RE: Tech: How to wipe an old computer hard drive?
From: Amos
Date: 18 Sep 07 - 06:46 PM

Just for Stilly:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB118953892743724082.html?mod=mostpop.

A

Subject: RE: Tech: How to wipe an old computer hard drive?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 18 Sep 07 - 06:49 PM

"How to wipe an old computer hard drive?"

Well, I've always just used a soft brush...

Subject: RE: Tech: How to wipe an old computer hard drive?
From: Gurney
Date: 19 Sep 07 - 12:20 AM

When I was trying to sort out a virus, I downloaded Seagate Tools, which is designed to fit on two floppys. This will format a HD back to square one, I think. Even the partitions disappear.
It works on Seagate, and after a warning, on Quantum HDs, both >40gig. Haven't tried it on anything else. It takes about an hour to do the job.

Not really helpful to SRSage, but maybe to others.

Subject: RE: Tech: How to wipe an old computer hard drive?
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 19 Sep 07 - 01:09 AM

A friend was paranoid (he is my friend....what would you expect?)

Before, he left work on an extended (perhaps stress) leave he asked me to go through his MAC for an hour. He said "it is clean - everything has been removed except the opporating system.

If he wasn't stressed before he left.....he was .... before I got through.

I LIKE PC because I understand where things GO.

The poor fellow's MAC was so filled with histories and times and dates - he kept saying, "that wasn't me!"

A few years later he needed to identify the precise location of a person and their activity on a MAC...They pointed.....Sherlock pointed the finger back at them.....

Most difficult question (it took myself and another) is the time expression is figured in seconds since the New Year....ie, divide by 60 (minutes) divide by 60 (hours) divide by 24 (days) consult a calendar. (there is a place that will compute this for free....but with the formula it is easier than finding the webpage.)

I could verify the 25 minute block and the precise URL's used....the person WAS on task! No problem, happy worker, happy suppervisor, happy me.

HOWEVER, this is ALL on a MAC and records going back four years "that had been erased."

Norton and Gibson are wonderful men - they have put some creapy crawlies into metal confines.

Sincerely,
Gargoyle

Subject: RE: Tech: How to wipe an old computer hard drive?
From: GUEST,Gene
Date: 19 Sep 07 - 01:58 AM

One GOOD way I found out by accident, is to DROP it from about
2 feet on the floor...and just to stay in practice, I have done
that two times in the past 10 years...

Subject: RE: Tech: How to wipe an old computer hard drive?
From: AKS
Date: 19 Sep 07 - 02:01 AM

"I have the power cord but as long as there is a dead battery it doesn't do me any good."

Try this: Connect the power cord and see that the mains switch is 'on', leave it standing there for some hours and try booting it up. I've had some similar cases - the latest one I just booted five minutes ago, I left it "charging" yesterday when I left for home...

How to wipe?
Have a go with Blancco and you'll never see your thesis again! ;-)

AKS

Subject: RE: Tech: How to wipe an old computer hard drive?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 19 Sep 07 - 11:12 AM

I could have done just what you said and it probably would have worked. Put just enough juice back into the battery that it would have served the machine. It hadn't been used in a long time so had completely discharged itself.

Looks like an interesting program. I think there is something like that in use by the folks contracted to recycle drives and disks at the university. They've guaranteed that they'll completely wipe the data before the bits are broken down to recycle. Labor intensive work, considering the number of old drives they're probably receiving.

SRS