Interesting e-mail

Subject: Interesting e-mail
From: Herge
Date: 04 Oct 07 - 02:18 AM

Just though I'd share this e-mail I got today from a 'fan' in USA - for your info our bands website is www.hastetothewedding.com:

To Whom It May Concern,

   I came across your website while searching and I will start out by saying that I am more privy to what TRUE Irish Music is to sound like then the average person today! And I am of Irish Traveller heritage from America but am also a dual citizen of Ireland through that ancestry and have lived on and off in Ireland over the years. First off, you are not a true Irish band once you have a guitar which is an instrument of Spanish and Portuguese culture. It was in the 1950's when Irish Music was first contaminated with this instrument which has infiltrated the mainstream ever since. The problem is that originally Irish Music was strictly the music of the Tinkers and when the invaders began to get ahold of it that was the end of it except for those few people left who played it in their barrel-tops or mud wall cottages!
   And to name your band "Haste To The Wedding" is an absolute insult to the Travellers because whether you know it or not that was originally a song about a Travellers wedding! There is no joy in your music which is missing in every so-called "Irish" band out there today and I know what it is supposed to sound like since I have musicians in my family who would not degrade themselves to play for anyone other then their own kin! And I am only 28 years of age to boot but I have had a mother and ancestors who took the time to hand this down to me and my great-grandfather was a Moonlighter from Kerry and none of you in Ireland would be anywhere if it was not for someone like him! And now whenever I go over to Ireland I am treated like an idiot just because they hear my American accent! But, I know my history and everyone in Ireland today with the exception of very, very few are afraid to think about the ones who were pushed to America since they were the strongest fighters and would not cut deals with the Limies! Everything which is of real, solid, tradition is hated in Ireland today. And lastly, at the spot where your website states to click to hear Haste To The Wedding, what I heard was not even that tune. So, just wanted you to know that there is still a thinking person out there who cannot be snowed on who the original peoples of Ireland are and what their music is supposed to sound like!

Good Luck In Trying to Imitate Us,

Subject: RE: Interesting e-mail
From: GUEST,A descendant of Sullivan
Date: 04 Oct 07 - 02:22 AM

Fans like that you can do without!

Subject: RE: Interesting e-mail
From: Darowyn
Date: 04 Oct 07 - 02:40 AM

Am I wrong in thinking that "tinkers" are culturally part of the Roma (Romany/traveller) tradition, and thus relatively recent immigrants to Ireland, as compared with the "true Irish" of the Gaeltacht who are descendents of the original hunter gatherers who walked into Eirne across what is now the Channel ?
Cheers
Dave

Subject: RE: Interesting e-mail
From: GUEST,nickp (cookieless)
Date: 04 Oct 07 - 04:22 AM

Funny, I always thought HTTW was of English descent...

Subject: RE: Interesting e-mail
From: Rasener
Date: 04 Oct 07 - 04:28 AM

Categorising drives people bonkers.
You do what you do. If people enjoy it, then so much the better. If they don't then thats up to them. If yuou enjoy doing what you do, then thats great.
Stick with what you are doing and ignore e-mails like that.

Subject: RE: Interesting e-mail
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 04 Oct 07 - 04:32 AM

Oh Herge, that post is hilarious! Dontcha just love internet nutters?

Subject: RE: Interesting e-mail
From: Hawker
Date: 04 Oct 07 - 04:52 AM

Why do people appoint themselves experts when they obviously have an opinion rather than a sound knowledge. Cant we all just get on with each other and enjoy the sharing of music for what it it not what it might or should be? What a sad old world eh?
Cheers Lucy

Subject: RE: Interesting e-mail
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 04 Oct 07 - 04:54 AM

It's entirely bonkers. HTTW is just another jig in D that isn't even on the CD being complained about. It just needs someone to come along and moan that it was really invented by W S Gilbert or that the Corrs wrote it themselves. As I expect someone will in a minute.

Subject: RE: Interesting e-mail
From: GUEST,Johnmc
Date: 04 Oct 07 - 05:05 AM

I would only say to young Herge that what his tradition needs from others is tolerance, a live and let live attitude. He is in danger of alienating such potential allies.

Subject: RE: Interesting e-mail
From: The Sandman
Date: 04 Oct 07 - 05:13 AM

Categorising drives people bonkers[VILLAN]
Quite true ,but when I put the subject up for discussion[How important is the label Traditional Singer]Quite afew mudcatters,are unhappy about the label being removed.
The only important thing is doing it [singing and playing],which is what I am going to do now.Dick Miles

Subject: RE: Interesting e-mail
From: Mo the caller
Date: 04 Oct 07 - 05:15 AM

I listened to the tune. It's not the English Haste to the Wedding (none the worse for that).

Subject: RE: Interesting e-mail
From: Bryn Pugh
Date: 04 Oct 07 - 05:20 AM

There is a Morris dance 'Haste to the Wedding', the Bledington and Longborough traditions.

Who borrowed from whom ?

Mind you, Jinky Wells (Bampton) played 'The Flowers of Edinburgh'.

Who borrowed from whom ?

As to a Septic being a 'Guardian of Tradition', that's the funniest thing I've heard in ages.

Subject: RE: Interesting e-mail
From: Pete_Standing
Date: 04 Oct 07 - 05:33 AM

Haste to the Wedding was written by the Corrs.

There you go, without hesitation, deviation or repetition, except the word the.

Subject: RE: Interesting e-mail
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 04 Oct 07 - 05:39 AM

In my experience categorising tends to drive people with very rigid preconceived ideas bonkers. Such people dream up 'theories' and then expect the evidence to support those theories. Often, when the evidence doesn't fit with their notions, they start to take extreme positions - for example, rejecting the very idea of categories.

This is, of course, absurd. Experience of everyday life makes it glaringly obvious that existence isn't one huge, undifferentiated lump!

Unfortunately, some categories may have grey or fuzzy edges and there may be exceptions and anomalies and this makes some people uncomfortable. It shouldn't though - it is just the way things are.

From a scientific viewpoint the existence of exceptions and anomalies is exciting and if enough of these pile up then the categories may have to be re-assigned (and no, Cap'n - this doesn't mean that I believe that the categories 'revival' and 'traditional', as applied to singers, are wrong! You've got a lot of work to do in order to convince me otherwise).

Subject: RE: Interesting e-mail
From: Geoff the Duck
Date: 04 Oct 07 - 05:41 AM

One thing you can guarantee in this life is that, if you hang around long enough, you will meet some absolute nutters.
The internet just makes it easier for them to find you.

And now whenever I go over to Ireland I am treated like an idiot - perhaps because the Irish, who are the most logical people I have ever encountered, can recognise an "eejit" at a hundred paces.

And I am only 28 years of age to boot - so perhaps it's time someone gave him a good boot.

As for "Tinkers". I don't believe that the tinkers ever had any ancestry in common with the romany folk. They were itinerant workers who mended pots and kettles, who used similar transport. Certainly these days (and I am being deliberately incendiary, so don't get up in arms about the comment, please!) Irish Tinkers are the people who park their caravans on waste ground near factories and steal all the iron railings. They are the people who turn up on your doorstep pretending to have "left over tarmac" from a motorway construction job and "we'll do your drive cheap". If that's the proud race he wants to belong to, he's wecome to it.
Quack!
GtD.

Subject: RE: Interesting e-mail
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 04 Oct 07 - 05:43 AM

"As to a Septic being a 'Guardian of Tradition', that's the funniest thing I've heard in ages."

Easy, tiger. Have you looked at EFDSS or the VWML recently?

Subject: RE: Interesting e-mail
From: manitas_at_work
Date: 04 Oct 07 - 05:45 AM

It's not surprising that HTTW is well known on both sides of the Irish Sea. Don't forget that the 18th and 19th centuries were times of great cultural interchange between England and Ireland with large numbers of Irishmen in the army and navy and large numbers of irish navigators bulding first canals and then railroads in England. There would have been quite a few tunes swapped around campfires.

As for Herge's critic he is obviously unaware that Belfast is a long way from Kerry and that musical styles and traditions are regional rather than national.

As someone who has more yours of playing music from Ireland than this guy has lived and has had the pleasure to play along with Herge I can truly say that his opinions are bollox!

I suspect it's not his accent that marks him out.

Subject: RE: Interesting e-mail
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 04 Oct 07 - 05:53 AM

HTTW is also a longways set dance, it's included in the New England Fiddler and Chris Leslie does it. And none of these are on the CD Herge has been listening to clips from.
What s/he hasn't grasped is that HTTW is the name of the band who play a wide variety of dance music from different traditions in strict time.

(learned from th bleedin' Corrs, obviously).

Subject: RE: Interesting e-mail
From: GUEST,LTS pretending to work
Date: 04 Oct 07 - 05:54 AM

more yours?

You mean years... it's the blow to the head that's done it.


LTS

Subject: RE: Interesting e-mail
From: Morticia
Date: 04 Oct 07 - 06:04 AM

Oh bless......that's the most wonderful example of tortured english I've heard in years....do they have the interwebs in loony bins these days?

Subject: RE: Interesting e-mail
From: TheSnail
Date: 04 Oct 07 - 06:06 AM

you are not a true Irish band once you have a guitar which is an instrument of Spanish and Portuguese culture

I wonder what he thinks are the true Irish instruments. The violin? (Italian). The Anglo (properly Anglo-German) concertina? The button accordeon (Italian?). The pipes? (universal).

Ah, of course! It's the bouzouki.

Subject: RE: Interesting e-mail
From: GUEST,Smash The Windows
Date: 04 Oct 07 - 06:25 AM

Never argue with a tinker! I once heard of someone who told Johnny Doran that he was playing out of tune. The next night he had a crowd of twenty tinkers round his house, throwing bricks through the windows.

So yer man the Tinker is 100% right!

Subject: RE: Interesting e-mail
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 04 Oct 07 - 06:25 AM

Apologies for naming Herge as author of he email when s/he wasn't but is actually a member of the band HTTW (and doubtless plays a version of said tune on authentic Irish bouzouki for all I know, bought on eBay from someone called Irving or Moynihan and about to be covered by the Corrs or one of the Blacks).

Subject: RE: Interesting e-mail
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 04 Oct 07 - 06:29 AM

. . . and for accidenally missplling Mr Irvine's name.

Subject: RE: Interesting e-mail
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 04 Oct 07 - 06:33 AM

It appears the lad has a valid point. Your band is sort of the "riverdance" entertainment equivalent. Folk will still hire you though.

Sincerely,
Gargoyle

Subject: RE: Interesting e-mail
From: Leadfingers
Date: 04 Oct 07 - 06:34 AM

The Bouzouki was intrduced to Irish music by Andy Irvin , the Bodhran came from Cewntral Europe to Ireland in the early part 0f the twentieth century - Probalbly the nearest there really is to an 'Irish' instrument is the whistle !
The world would be a lot happier place if we could get rid of ALL the exremists , wether in Music , Politics , Religion , or any or field of Human Activity !

Subject: RE: Interesting e-mail
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 04 Oct 07 - 06:40 AM

Well of course, as any fule kno, harps were imported from Heaven.

Subject: RE: Interesting e-mail
From: Leadfingers
Date: 04 Oct 07 - 06:40 AM

Typos Rule!! Ce(w)ntral !! And no E for Andy Irvinme ! AND no o in introduced - My Word - I am having a good day !

Subject: RE: Interesting e-mail
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 04 Oct 07 - 06:49 AM

You told me your typos only happened in my chat room Terry!
A little economic with the actualité perhaps ☺
Giok

Subject: RE: Interesting e-mail
From: GUEST,banjoman
Date: 04 Oct 07 - 07:29 AM

There is no place in music for pontificating idiots who just want to air their own bigitted opinions. As far as I see it, music is for everyone regardless of history, race, creed or colour. So. keep playing and enjoying.
PS I exclude melodeons from any musical reference (said tongue in cheek as I also play Jaws Harp)

Subject: RE: Interesting e-mail
From: GUEST,Smash The Windows
Date: 04 Oct 07 - 07:38 AM

The only authentic Irish instruments are instruments bones and bone whisteles !

Subject: RE: Interesting e-mail
From: GUEST,Smash The Windows
Date: 04 Oct 07 - 07:50 AM

Oh, and these:

Wicklow Pipes

Subject: RE: Interesting e-mail
From: kendall
Date: 04 Oct 07 - 08:01 AM

If you go back far enough in history, there are no authentic instruments, eh?

Subject: RE: Interesting e-mail
From: redsnapper
Date: 04 Oct 07 - 08:05 AM

Corrigendum! The bouzouki was actually introduced to Irish music by Johnny Moynihan AFAIK

RS

Subject: RE: Interesting e-mail
From: Mark H.
Date: 04 Oct 07 - 08:18 AM

Nutters like that ought to get out less.
When my old band, Hokum, did "St. James Infirmary" ("Gambler's Blues") one time, a member of the audience appeared prepared to fight to "prove" that Cab Calloway wrote it. Mention of the ballad "The Unfortunate Rake", a possible precursor, might have tipped him over the edge.
Nice post, Herge, and I hope to see more of the same.

Subject: RE: Interesting e-mail
From: jacqui.c
Date: 04 Oct 07 - 08:19 AM

I know what it is supposed to sound like since I have musicians in my family who would not degrade themselves to play for anyone other then their own kin!

No wonder that version of Irish music is not known. Music is meant to be shared and broadcast, not held to a small group like a miser hoarding wealth.

Subject: RE: Interesting e-mail
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 04 Oct 07 - 08:25 AM

Wibble, wibble, wibble!

(Puts fingers in ears)

Lalalalalalalalalalalalalalala!

Subject: RE: Interesting e-mail
From: Bryn Pugh
Date: 04 Oct 07 - 08:43 AM

Dear Ruth Archer,

Perhaps that was a bit heavy, but my Mommy is American.

(We all have our crosses to bear . . . :-)

Subject: RE: Interesting e-mail
From: IrvineJ
Date: 04 Oct 07 - 08:50 AM

"No wonder that version of Irish music is not known. Music is meant to be shared and broadcast, not held to a small group like a miser hoarding wealth."

Folk clubs?

Subject: RE: Interesting e-mail
From: jacqui.c
Date: 04 Oct 07 - 08:54 AM

All the folk clubs that I have known, both in the UK and the USA, welcome newcomers. I've never been to one that doesn't encourage new performers either.

Subject: RE: Interesting e-mail
From: IrvineJ
Date: 04 Oct 07 - 09:05 AM

some clubs i've frequented generally play to the same group of people week in week out, and when a newcomer arrives they throw themselves soo hard at the unfortunate newcomer that they generally don't come back.

then again, some other clubs like Hitchin FC and of that ilk are wonderful places to watch this brilliant music. Swings and roundabouts. We're digressing.

Subject: RE: Interesting e-mail
From: SINSULL
Date: 04 Oct 07 - 09:05 AM

Poor soul is mentally ill. Only he knows what is. Move on, people, there is nothing to see here.

Subject: RE: Interesting e-mail
From: GUEST,irishenglish
Date: 04 Oct 07 - 09:17 AM

Pity he couldn't come on here and have his arguments dissected one by one, but then again....probably best to let it go!

Subject: RE: Interesting e-mail
From: GLoux
Date: 04 Oct 07 - 09:29 AM

When was traditional Irish music contaminated by the violin?

Subject: RE: Interesting e-mail
From: Maryrrf
Date: 04 Oct 07 - 10:02 AM

That e-mail was uncalled for, stupid and pointless, and I'm not surprised that whoever sent it gets treated like an idiot when he's in Ireland. Irish music strictly the music of the tinkers?????

Subject: RE: Interesting e-mail
From: JedMarum
Date: 04 Oct 07 - 10:13 AM

The band sounds great, Herge. Funny to get such a note from this small minded bigot. This person is so deluded is difficult to know where to begin a countering argument! And in fact - so far off base there's no need to.

keep up the great sounds!

Subject: RE: Interesting e-mail
From: Peace
Date: 04 Oct 07 - 10:19 AM

Herge:

How did your 'fan' respond when you told him to get fu#ked?

Subject: RE: Interesting e-mail
From: Herge
Date: 04 Oct 07 - 10:43 AM

I have asked him to send me some samples of him playing 'irish music'to see where I have been going wrong for so long. I'll share his reply and refer him to Mudcat

herge

Subject: RE: Interesting e-mail
From: TheSnail
Date: 04 Oct 07 - 11:09 AM

GLoux

When was traditional Irish music contaminated by the violin?

Not really sure. Must have been 17th or 18th century. Downhill all the way since then.

Subject: RE: Interesting e-mail
From: GUEST,Mr. Norrell
Date: 04 Oct 07 - 11:12 AM

If this is to be believed, which I have a feeling it shouldn't (the term chain yanking comes to mind)then the line "And I am of Irish Traveller heritage from America" should answer all....this person says of Traveller heritage (filtered through what, one wonders),which pretty much waters down their claim to be so bleedin' high and mighty.