Morris Fed. Politics/Thought Police?

Subject: Morris Fed. Politics/Thought Police?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 07 Oct 07 - 01:19 PM

All of this is second hand, but it disturbs me.


Recently, a Morris Federation side was roundly condemned by holy joes/stuffed shirts/ po-faced ninnies/insert insult of choice, at the Federation AGM.

The side had apparently produced for internal circulation within the side at its folk ale a somewhat pointed and jocular little 'zine. I have not yet seen it but hope to do so soon!

Politically incorrect fun, however, will out, it seems. The great and the good, I am told, were all set to expel the side from the Federation (which would create a big problem for the side as they need public liability insurance to dance, and it is hard to get on a one-off basis, but each of the Federation and the Ring has a blanket policy) for "bringing morris into disrepute". Only the pedantic mind of an attending civil servant who pointed out that there was no rule preventing such behavious, and no rule permitting expulsions either, saved the day.

I suspect that if the side (which is popular with other sides) were disciplined in any way, ANOTHER breakaway group of sides could start.

Comments? Although I have not yet seen the 'zine my instincts are with the side, not with the Federation.

Subject: RE: Morris Fed. Politics/Thought Police?
From: Peace
Date: 07 Oct 07 - 01:21 PM

Serious question, Richard. What are you talking about?

Subject: RE: Morris Fed. Politics/Thought Police?
From: Midchuck
Date: 07 Oct 07 - 01:24 PM

He's talking about Morris dancers.

They're all crazier than shithouse rats anyway. It isn't supposed to make sense.

(That should bring a round of condemnation lengthy enough to make Max need to buy an new server. I should probably send him some money...)

Peter

Subject: RE: Morris Fed. Politics/Thought Police?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 07 Oct 07 - 01:26 PM

I don't really have all the facts, Peace, only what I am told as set out above and a side-wind on an argument that others have had about it.

At least one of the principal protagonists is not so much struggling to get up to the 21st Century, as maybe the 20th or 19th, so the chance of online input from him is slim. But he does have a rather robust sense of humour, and I could see him offending some people if they didn't see the twinkle in his eye.

I am also being told that next year's AGM may have a motion to adopt rules that would give the Federation the powers it lacked this year.

At present I can say no more than that I am uneasy until someone divulges first hand info.

Subject: RE: Morris Fed. Politics/Thought Police?
From: Peace
Date: 07 Oct 07 - 01:30 PM

Thank you. I'm in Canada and I know as much about morris dancing as I do about brain surgery. Didn't mean to throw any cold water on this thread. (At first I thought it was about rugby or cricket when you talked about sides.) Thanks again to both of you.

Subject: RE: Morris Fed. Politics/Thought Police?
From: GUEST, Mikefule
Date: 07 Oct 07 - 01:32 PM

Interesting. I'm in a Ring side, and I produce a jocular little magazine (monthly, and well on its way to its tenth anniversary) and from time to time someone takes offence at its contents.

But no one has ever suggested we should be thrown out of the Ring. What have I done wrong?

Thank goodness these people devote their time and attention to such serious matters as the contents of another Morris side's newsletter.

I guess it saves them the trouble of (for example) joining Amnesty and campaigning for freedom of speech about serious issues in countries where editors of daily newspapers are arrested, tortured or killed.

Subject: RE: Morris Fed. Politics/Thought Police?
From: Folkiedave
Date: 07 Oct 07 - 01:45 PM

I think I would be inclined to wait and declare my sympathies when I was in full possession of the facts.

But of course that won't stop people stating threads or making comments on here.

Subject: RE: Morris Fed. Politics/Thought Police?
From: Folkiedave
Date: 07 Oct 07 - 01:46 PM

That should be "starting" threads of course.

Subject: RE: Morris Fed. Politics/Thought Police?
From: Folkiedave
Date: 07 Oct 07 - 02:38 PM

The great and the good, I am told, were all set to expel the side from the Federation (which would create a big problem for the side as they need public liability insurance to dance, and it is hard to get on a one-off basis, but each of the Federation and the Ring has a blanket policy) for "bringing morris into disrepute".

Not all that big a problem Richard, the Open Morris also offers public liability insurance of £10,000.

http://www.langcen.cam.ac.uk/OpenMorris/home.html

Subject: RE: Morris Fed. Politics/Thought Police?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 07 Oct 07 - 02:39 PM

And, you see, bad behavious is rarer than bad behaviour.

Subject: RE: Morris Fed. Politics/Thought Police?
From: Folkiedave
Date: 07 Oct 07 - 02:47 PM

For the second time in this thread Richard - what on earth are you on about?

Subject: RE: Morris Fed. Politics/Thought Police?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 07 Oct 07 - 03:01 PM

Spelling, this time. There were various comments above about typos and I found one of my own. It passes the time waiting for hard information of relevance to this thread from one who knows.

Subject: RE: Morris Fed. Politics/Thought Police?
From: Folkiedave
Date: 07 Oct 07 - 03:04 PM

Remarkably, lack of hard information didn't stop you at the start, why let it bother you now?

Subject: RE: Morris Fed. Politics/Thought Police?
From: Peace
Date: 07 Oct 07 - 03:07 PM

Richard, my remark about spelling was meant to be friendly. That's how we spell it in most of Canada. I said that to 'bug' my American friends who spell it 'humor'. Sorry you took it the wrong way. As of now I'm off this thread. Take care.

Subject: RE: Morris Fed. Politics/Thought Police?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 07 Oct 07 - 03:23 PM

Peace, you overlook Folkie Dave's self correction from "stating" to "starting". What's your problem?

Folkie Dave - did it occur to you that I thought this thread might bring in some hard information? You are being very silly.

But the info about "Open Morris" is useful, thank you.

Oh, and yes, morris dancers do seem to have an eccentricity quotient...

Subject: RE: Morris Fed. Politics/Thought Police?
From: Folkiedave
Date: 07 Oct 07 - 03:48 PM

All of this is second hand, but it disturbs me.

http://www.morrisfed.org/mf/contacts.htm

Subject: RE: Morris Fed. Politics/Thought Police?
From: Peace
Date: 07 Oct 07 - 03:51 PM

"What's your problem?"

My problem is having been stupid enough to post anything to this, your thread. Believe me, it will not happen again.

Subject: RE: Morris Fed. Politics/Thought Police?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 07 Oct 07 - 04:17 PM

I think if I was going to start my career again from the off - I would call myself Morris Dancing - or is that too Jewish?

People would shorten it to Mo' (as in - I'm Mo Green and I made my bones when you were still banging cheerleaders!)

What fun you could have! you could have different Morris cars on each of your album covers - a Marina, a Morris Traveller. a Morris 1000, a bull nose, a Morris mini Minor...

Also its a good folky name.

Don't worry Peace, I dunno what the threads about either. I shouldn't think its personal.....

Subject: RE: Morris Fed. Politics/Thought Police?
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 08 Oct 07 - 04:07 AM

Since nobody has any idea can I take this opportunity to encourage people to be involved in Oxjam?

Cheers

Les

Subject: RE: Morris Fed. Politics/Thought Police?
From: GUEST,Flapjack caper
Date: 08 Oct 07 - 04:41 AM

Politically incorrect fun, however, will out, it seems.

Without knowing the facts, how can you have an opinion? Non-PC could mean a bit blue, a bit woman- bashing, or out-and-out racist. Depending on the actual nature of the material, the expulsion of the side could be wild over-reaction or the only sensible thing to do. It's well known that some in morris circles hold very dubious views.

Subject: RE: Morris Fed. Politics/Thought Police?
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 08 Oct 07 - 06:35 AM

What's a zine ? is it some sort of ' newspeak ' ?

eric

Subject: RE: Morris Fed. Politics/Thought Police?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 08 Oct 07 - 06:46 AM

a "'zine" is a small collocation of information/opinion intended for circulation either generally or within restricted circles whether in hard copy, or as data, as in "fanzine".

The assertion plainly is that the materail complained of was politically incorrect, and it is also plain that the information was outed.

Subject: RE: Morris Fed. Politics/Thought Police?
From: Leadfingers
Date: 08 Oct 07 - 06:48 AM

There never seemed to be any fall out over the totally scurrillous comic strip "BorFolk" on the back of Southern Rag back in the good old days ! And Borfolk took the mickey out of ALL aspects of Folk music without exception . I was always amused at their references to 'The Society' - The D E A F A S S , 0r Dance Earnestly And Forget
About Song Society .

Subject: RE: Morris Fed. Politics/Thought Police?
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 08 Oct 07 - 08:25 AM

"Without knowing the facts, how can you have an opinion? Non-PC could mean a bit blue, a bit woman- bashing, or out-and-out racist. Depending on the actual nature of the material, the expulsion of the side could be wild over-reaction or the only sensible thing to do. It's well known that some in morris circles hold very dubious views."

Well said. The OP seems to have condemned this as Political Correctness gone mad - but doesn't even know what the objectionable material was.

He's also ill-advised in using the term "Thought Police". The Morris Fed hasn't condemned the perpitrators for simply thinking objectionable thoughts - they've sanctioned them for writing those thoughts down and distributing them in a magazine.

A subtle but important distinction, I think.

Subject: RE: Morris Fed. Politics/Thought Police?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 08 Oct 07 - 09:27 AM

Notice the question mark?

Subject: RE: Morris Fed. Politics/Thought Police?
From: Midchuck
Date: 08 Oct 07 - 09:35 AM

It's well known that some in morris circles hold very dubious views.

That's a much nicer way of saying what I said early in this thread. Consider my post corrected to that wording. Not that it changes the meaning...

Peter

Subject: RE: Morris Fed. Politics/Thought Police?
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 08 Oct 07 - 09:49 AM

"Notice the question mark?"

The question mark doesn't change the fact that it's a flawed analogy.

Subject: RE: Morris Fed. Politics/Thought Police?
From: Folkiedave
Date: 08 Oct 07 - 12:46 PM

......It's well known that some in morris circles hold very dubious views."

Why not write to the Morris Federation and ask them? I supplied their details earlier. That way you could determine the truth.

Subject: RE: Morris Fed. Politics/Thought Police?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 08 Oct 07 - 03:51 PM

It appears no-one has, or no-one is prepared to supply, the facts. I shall dig elsewhere.

Subject: RE: Morris Fed. Politics/Thought Police?
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 08 Oct 07 - 04:25 PM

Why on earth would anyone supply you, on demand, with "the facts"? Do bear in mind that, since you are apparently not a member of the Federation, the whole affair is really none of your business.

Repeating mere gossip and innuendo in a public forum like this, and indulging in name-calling based on nothing more than rumour, is presumptuous and irresponsible. You are old enough to know better.

Subject: RE: Morris Fed. Politics/Thought Police?
From: lady penelope
Date: 08 Oct 07 - 04:45 PM

Erm, I'm sorry. I can't see what the problem is. How can morris possibly be brought into disrepute???? It's already there isn't it???? This obviously a troll......

Subject: RE: Morris Fed. Politics/Thought Police?
From: Folkiedave
Date: 08 Oct 07 - 06:56 PM

I shall dig elsewhere.

Why dig Richard?

Why not write and ask the people whose emails I gave you earlier? As Malcolm says there is no need to rely on innuedo. But they may chose to ignore you and I would hardly blame them if they did.

The only reason you started this thread as far as I can see is to have a go a "political correctness" based on some hearsay or gossip.

Subject: RE: Morris Fed. Politics/Thought Police?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 08 Oct 07 - 07:49 PM

you don't get this sort of thing with Riley Elf Dancers....

Subject: RE: Morris Fed. Politics/Thought Police?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 08 Oct 07 - 09:49 PM

Censorship is censorship and only rarely justified. Those who impose it ought to justify it, and I am surprised to find the knee-jerk reaction here that in the case of a morris side it is likely to be justified. The "facts" from those who impose it will obviously be self-serving, and I will (with a little luck) find out what is really what from the side involved - although that too may be a coloured version of events. My own side is a Federation side and depending on what emerges I may seek to exert pressure about that. So, like a sensible person, I sought to find out more and to seek perspectives.

It seems no-one knows more, or at least no-one is prepared to tell more, and no-one is interested on getting a true perspective.   Funny old world.

Subject: RE: Morris Fed. Politics/Thought Police?
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 09 Oct 07 - 02:53 AM

"I am surprised to find the knee-jerk reaction here that in the case of a morris side it is likely to be justified."

no...the reaction here has basically been that people would like to know the facts before they make a judgement.

"So, like a sensible person, I sought to find out more and to seek perspectives."

Oh...I thought anyone trying to do that would make discreet enquiries behind the scenes, rather than engaging in speculation and gossip on a messageboard.

Subject: RE: Morris Fed. Politics/Thought Police?
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 09 Oct 07 - 03:07 AM

Is this what happens when men who dance with men in public, and build a dodgy edifice of false history to justify it, spend too long in each others company?

Subject: RE: Morris Fed. Politics/Thought Police?
From: Folkiedave
Date: 09 Oct 07 - 04:56 AM

Richard - since you clearly have the ability and contacts to find out precisely what this is about, why on earth start a discussion on a message board without finding out the facts first?

Strange way to behave IMHO.

My sympathies are also in general against censorship - but until I know whether this magazine was internal to the team - or distributed to the general public for example - then I will reserve judgement.

I would also need to see the contents. Perhaps when you have ascertained the full facts you would be kind enough to ask the team involved to publish them so we can all make our mind up. (Or ask permission to publish them yourself?)

Incidentally my own team is a Federation member but we were not represented at the AGM and so will not be whinging at any decisions taken.

Subject: RE: Morris Fed. Politics/Thought Police?
From: Folkiedave
Date: 09 Oct 07 - 05:25 AM

That should have read "teams". And by publishing I mean on the web.