Brazilian rosewood bust

Subject: Brazilian rosewood bust
From: Wesley S
Date: 08 Nov 07 - 05:21 PM

It's possible that your hopes of buying a new Brazilian rosewood guitar are flying out the window. We'll see what develops.....

Bye Bye Brazilian

Subject: RE: Brazilian rosewood bust
From: Cool Beans
Date: 08 Nov 07 - 05:46 PM

We're getting our news from Pravda?!! Oy.

Subject: RE: Brazilian rosewood bust
From: Bill D
Date: 08 Nov 07 - 05:52 PM

hmmm...I can't see how they expected to get away with it for very long. It has been illegal so long that most musical instrument makers wouldn't touch it, anyway.

Subject: RE: Brazilian rosewood bust
From: catspaw49
Date: 08 Nov 07 - 05:57 PM

Beat me to it Bill.

Spaw

Subject: RE: Brazilian rosewood bust
From: EBarnacle
Date: 08 Nov 07 - 10:59 PM

Always remember that Pravda means "truth."

Subject: RE: Brazilian rosewood bust
From: Sorcha
Date: 08 Nov 07 - 11:09 PM

I can't get the link anyway. Just as well I don't want a BRW guitar, eh?

I thought there were some legal stashes of it in a few places?

Subject: RE: Brazilian rosewood bust
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 09 Nov 07 - 12:36 AM

The other Russian news source was Isvestia (sp?) meaning "news" & years ago I heard someone repeat what was apparently a common saying in Russia - There is not truth in "Truth" & no news in "News"

well, I almost remembered it - I just found the original reference by googling!

"In Pravda there is no Isvestia, and in Isvestia there is no Pravda" (in news there is no truth, and in the truth there is no news").

Subject: RE: Brazilian rosewood bust
From: GUEST,TJ in San Diego
Date: 09 Nov 07 - 12:24 PM

According to Chuck Taylor and others in the manufacturing business, even if it were legal to import, most of the rosewood coming from Brazil is of such inferior quality that using it is something of a "crap shoot." It is prone to cracking and warping. The old days of the beautiful straight-grain material are ancient history. I once had an old Martin D-28 from the early 1960's (destroyed in a fire), so I know what it was.

Subject: RE: Brazilian rosewood bust
From: GUEST,sparticus
Date: 09 Nov 07 - 01:56 PM

A Brazilian AND a rosewood bust?

Oo-er missus!

Subject: RE: Brazilian rosewood bust
From: John Hardly
Date: 09 Nov 07 - 02:00 PM

Bob

Subject: RE: Brazilian rosewood bust
From: mattkeen
Date: 09 Nov 07 - 02:30 PM

of course there is still legal BRW around - I have just ordered an instrument from Brook Guitars in Devon.
Its at a premium price though

Subject: RE: Brazilian rosewood bust
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 09 Nov 07 - 02:47 PM

The rosewood in currently made guitars is Indian rosewood, which is not the same; a different species altogether.

Brazilian rosewood (Dalbergia nigra)
Indian rosewood or shissam (Dalbergia sissoo).

Subject: RE: Brazilian rosewood bust
From: pdq
Date: 09 Nov 07 - 02:54 PM

...from a classical guitar player, teacher and builder:


"I have realized in the years that some cuts of Brazilian Rosewood sound just like any other wood. I also admit that some cuts sound TERRIFIC. But the price is seldom the reason. It is also true that on average, most cuts of African Blackwood or Lapacho sound better then the average Brazilian. Therefore, the best thing anyone can do is let the builder choose the best combination of Palisandro wit the other woods for the construction. The phenomenon is known as matching... the sum of all the parts will eventually resonate beautifully...not the name tag on the wood. 

Unfortunately many prospect buyers pick the information (the wrong one unfortunately) from guitar forums and newsgroups. These are infested with wish they were guitar players or guitar builders. They mislead the users and try to attract the buyer to their products often spreading lies and often post messages pretending that they are happy buyers of one brand or unhappy buyers of another. I have earned my trust by telling my fellow buyers what to look for in a guitar from a player point of view. Before venturing in constructing my guitars, I used to go to all the best European builders. I NEVER asked "What woods were used in the construction?". I used to ask the builder: "I am looking for a guitar that is easy to play. t must have beautiful ringing trebles and well defined basses". The builder would pass the instrument that he thought enclosed these characteristics. Usually it was his preferred one and often it only had some of the sound characteristics I was looking for. I would look at it, if I liked the looks of the guitar, I would play it and eventually buy it. I have come to realize that in over 30 years of classical guitar playing I never found a Brazilian rosewood match. And I have played hundreds of instruments throughout the years. Therefore, I have my good reasons to call the people I mentioned earlier a bunch of buffoons. 

The unknowns about Rosewood are far more important than the "generally sought after qualities"   ...namely grain...Just as the wood for the top is best when it grows at higher altitudes (Italian Pines), Rosewood is best when it grows in the deeper parts of jungles because in the dense foliage of tropical forest, where the light is limited. Under these conditions, Rosewood  grows much slower, a phenomenon necessary to make it a top tone wood...

This is the key to Rosewood : How it grows. Therefore, it is best not to be stubborn about the wood being a certain species, but how the wood was born and how it grew. Nowadays, it is far better to build with other woods rather than being obsessed with Rain forest woods and ending up with greenhouse varieties, second quality cuts or build a guitar with woods from 5 or 6 different cuts. In my experience, I have found African Blackwodd, Cocobolo, Lapacho and Bolivian Rosewood to be a better choice for the back and sides. Lapacho, an "unknown" Paraguayan variety, is in the same category as Brazilian rosewood but at a fraction of the cost. African Blackwood is up there with Brazilian and Lapacho only it is expensive and hard to find. Bolivian rosewood  grows at fantastic altitudes in the dense foliage of the southern Brazilian/Bolivian border. I owned guitars for over 20 years and I rarely asked what woods they were made of. 

Again, try to describe the sound that you are looking for and let the builder and the person you trust serve you best.

It is not luthiers who have been the responsible for the indiscriminate logging of Rosewood but the perfume industry which extracts the precious oil from the wood...and of course, the furniture industry...It is wise that you review your Geography knowledge... The Amazon Rainforest covers, Venezuela, Colombia, Peru, Bolivia among other countries... and something else: politicians and green groups, magnify a situation which is far from being as catastrophic as they pretend us to believe." 

Subject: RE: Brazilian rosewood bust
From: Bill D
Date: 09 Nov 07 - 03:16 PM

"Bolivian rosewood grows at fantastic altitudes in the dense foliage of the southern Brazilian/Bolivian border."

except that this is one of those botanical confusions caused by dealers wanting to associate some wood in folks minds with Rosewood.

There IS almost no genuine Rosewood of any kind in Bolivia....except in tiny areas down near the border in LOW areas. The wood they refer to as Bolivian Rosewood is Machaerium scleroxylon, most commonly called Morado.

Dealers want well-known, familar names when they try to sell stuff, and they'll invent a name on the spot if they don't like the common name.

Subject: RE: Brazilian rosewood bust
From: oggie
Date: 09 Nov 07 - 05:58 PM

IF Brazilian Rosewood makes it to the next level of CITIES listing, the sale of all Brazilian Rosewood, no matter how old, will become illegal (as with Ivory).

In this day and age I would argue that the only ethical way to buy an instrument using exotic woods is to insist on FSC or similar certification AND to ask to see the chain of custody documentation. This proves that the wood was bought from shipper a, from merchant b, from lumberyard c etc and that no illegal wood has slipped into the chain. Yes it adds some expense to the wood but in the overall price of an instrument it's marginal.

Steve

Subject: RE: Brazilian rosewood bust
From: oombanjo
Date: 10 Nov 07 - 03:53 AM

I agree with the sentiment shown and all illegal poaching of whatever species should have mandatory sentences of not less than 20 years,
However I treasure my old Brazilian Docherty, it cost an arm and a leg to have it made back then and I still can't stop playing it when I pick it up. Cheers Oombanjo. Ps good thread