Challenge just a Teddy with a wrong name

Subject: Challenge just a Teddy with a wrong name
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 27 Nov 07 - 06:54 AM

A poor teacher is in trouble for allowing her kids to name the class mascot Teddy Mohamed - it was the most common name among their families and friends and schoolmates.

Let's a write a song from the viewpoint of the poor confused Teddy - whose first recollections are lots of happy children. Now he is locked in an evidence cupboard, the teacher is locked up , the kids are upset and have no teacher... and he doesn't really have a clue what is going on...

:-)

Subject: RE: Challenge just a Teddy with a wrong name
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 27 Nov 07 - 11:07 AM

Just please be careful what you write as if it picked up on, you may find yourself the target of an avenger.

Subject: RE: Challenge just a Teddy with a wrong name
From: Roger the Skiffler
Date: 27 Nov 07 - 11:54 AM

You just want 40 lashes don't you?

!
*BG*

RtS

Subject: RE: Challenge just a Teddy with a wrong name
From: Bernard
Date: 27 Nov 07 - 12:03 PM

The things people do with 'religion' as their excuse...

When people ask me about my religious views, I tell them I can see a church steeple through my attic window...

Subject: RE: Challenge just a Teddy with a wrong name
From: Mikefule
Date: 27 Nov 07 - 01:46 PM

With so much religious lunacy in the world, makes me wonder why we get uptight about irrelevant stuff like what the word "traditional" means. The story with the teddy is so bloody daft you couldn't make it up.

Subject: RE: Challenge just a Teddy with a wrong name
From: treewind
Date: 27 Nov 07 - 02:34 PM

source of your knowledge ?
It was all over the BBC radio news this morning, for a start...

Subject: RE: Challenge just a Teddy with a wrong name
From: GUEST,The Mole Catcher's Apprentice
Date: 27 Nov 07 - 02:38 PM

and here

Teddy Mohamed

Subject: RE: Challenge just a Teddy with a wrong name
From: GUEST,The Mole Catcher's Apprentice
Date: 27 Nov 07 - 02:40 PM

oops!! that should be.....

The Ballad of Teddy Mohamed

Subject: RE: Challenge just a Teddy with a wrong name
From: Rasener
Date: 27 Nov 07 - 03:00 PM

40 lashes or 6 months in prison for calling a teddy Mohammed.

I wish they would dio that to all the thugs etc in the UK. that would make more sense.

Religion I ask you.

Subject: RE: Challenge just a Teddy with a wrong name
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 27 Nov 07 - 03:03 PM

Unnamed guests sniping at regular mudcatters--they need the 40 lashes. Or deletion.

It's a bizarre story, and one that is entirely opportunistic. The bear was named by the children ages ago.

SRS

Subject: RE: Challenge just a Teddy with a wrong name
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 27 Nov 07 - 03:13 PM

It is wrong and the ridiculous religious laws that have caused it are ludicrous. I would hazzard a guess though that many of the people in sympathy with the poor lass in question would also be less than liberal in their views on immigration. Is it any wonder that so many people from these fundementalist states want to set up home in the west?

Not saying anyone here is guilty of that hypocrocy - far from it. But there are a few in the local pub vault that will punctuate their Sun reader "send 'em all 'ome" dogma with pourings of outrage at the fate of this teacher.

I despair at times.

D.

Subject: RE: Challenge just a Teddy with a wrong name
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 27 Nov 07 - 05:39 PM

Well done guys.

Thanks, and now back to the song idea - a good 'tearjerker' in the Victorian English Tradition of 'daddy come home, stop drinking all our money in the pub and come home to feed your starving children, including little Danny who is dying of pneumonia' style should strike the right note without being disrespectful.

Subject: RE: Challenge just a Teddy with a wrong name
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 27 Nov 07 - 05:46 PM

Actually, we should not be too hard on our anonymous GUEST, guys. Yesterday I had a phone call from a muso friend who lives near Nimbin in NSW, wanting to know the results of the Aussie Election on Saturday.

I'm not making this up, you know.

Subject: RE: Challenge just a Teddy with a wrong name
From: Leadfingers
Date: 27 Nov 07 - 06:16 PM

Tom Lehrer decided that the world was past parodying when they gave the Nobel peace prize to Kissinger ! I wonder wwhat T L would make of Sharia law !!

Subject: RE: Challenge just a Teddy with a wrong name
From: Mysha
Date: 28 Nov 07 - 03:48 PM

FOR MY NAME
(Lyrics - Mysha: Peter Hans van den Muijzenberg)


Two steps deep is the room I'm given
And the door is locked for me
One step wide makes all the space here
Through no window I can see
I don't know if time still is passing
My world in here just stays the same
My cell is silence mixed with darkness
I'm locked in here for my name

They put me here to do their justice
I know not why they came for me
Not how much days or years are waiting
Nor if I ever will be free
I don't know how much time has passed since
Just that one day these people came
They took me with them, locked me in here
And said that it was for my name

I remember when the world was lighter
With my good friends I used to stay
There would be singing, joy and laughter
I used to watch the children play
But now they've locked me here in darkness
No more I see the childrens' game
Forever gone are light and gladness
And it's all just for my name

My name is Theodore.


As usual, it came out a bit differently. It's the atmosphere of In Tyrannis, by Reinhard Mey, if you know that song.

                                                                P.H.M.

Subject: RE: Challenge just a Teddy with a wrong name
From: Peter K (Fionn)
Date: 29 Nov 07 - 03:34 PM

Sadly, Terry. that has to go down as an urban legend. Lehrer's denied saying it!

Subject: RE: Challenge just a Teddy with a wrong name
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 29 Nov 07 - 04:04 PM

What shall I call our golliwogs then?

Subject: RE: Challenge just a Teddy with a wrong name
From: GUEST,Doc John
Date: 29 Nov 07 - 04:05 PM

I hope that this nonsense will signal that it's time for the repeal of all blasphemy laws here in the UK.
Doc John

Subject: RE: Challenge just a Teddy with a wrong name
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 30 Nov 07 - 07:15 AM

Songs for Sudanese Ministry of Justice

Subject: RE: Challenge just a Teddy with a wrong name
From: Roger the Skiffler
Date: 30 Nov 07 - 09:16 AM

To the tune of Teddy Bear's picnic:
"If you go down to Sudan today
You're sure of a big surprise (x2)
For every bear called Mu*****d
Is gathering there because
Today's the day they all get 40 lashes"


RtS
Strange that in devout Christian countries little boys called Jesus can be shouted at by their mothers: "Come here,Jesus, you little bleeder" etc without the Pope going postal.

Subject: RE: Challenge just a Teddy with a wrong name
From: Flash Company
Date: 30 Nov 07 - 09:47 AM

This, alas is too real. As I write, demonstrators in Sudan are demanding the death sentence. I rather expected this after Friday prayers. I just hope that they don't storm the jail and carry out the sentence themselves, I don't think the authorities would go out of their way to stop them!

FC

Subject: RE: Challenge just a Teddy with a wrong name
From: GUEST,Fed Up Of Religious Bullying
Date: 30 Nov 07 - 10:09 AM

She should have named the bear Fuzzy Wuzzy:

Fuzzy Wuzzy was a bear,
Fuzzy Wuzzy had no hair,
Fuzzy wuzzy wasn't fuzzy, wuz he?

Fuzzy Wuzzy was the term used by British soldiers for the Sudanese Mahdist troops in the 1880s. I think a pejorative term is the least we can apply to the nightmarish government (and apparently a significant section of the people) of the Sudan, and their religion. Note that this isn't attacking Islam- it's attacking the perverted beliefs of those vile bullies. If other Moslems claim it ois Islam, OK, that's their stupid choice.

Subject: RE: Challenge just a Teddy with a wrong name
From: Jean(eanjay)
Date: 30 Nov 07 - 10:19 AM

demonstrators in Sudan are demanding the death sentence

She must be absolutely terrified. I just hope that she's safe in the prison.

It might be better if she was immediately deported.

Subject: RE: Challenge just a Teddy with a wrong name
From: Peace
Date: 30 Nov 07 - 10:20 AM

Call the teddy bear Aisha.

Subject: RE: Challenge just a Teddy with a wrong name
From: Mysha
Date: 30 Nov 07 - 11:00 AM

Hi Roger,

I wasn't (just) kidding when at the end of For My Name, I had the bear say that name was "Theodore". "Mohamed" is a normal last name in Sudan, or at any rate one shared by people seen representing Sudan: artists, ambassadors, ministers, soccer players. It's also not uncommon as middle name, I'd say, and is at least an acceptable first name. So "Achmed Mohamed" would be no problem and "Mohamed Achmed" wouldn't be either. But "Teddy Mohamed" is different.

I guess the problem lies in the fact that a teddy in itself would not be allowed by the Islam, as it's a depiction of an animal. I'm not sure a lot of people would like headlines like "Jesus sent down for five years", associating that name with a criminal. Similarly, people might not like the name of their prophet associated with a sin. But you can't complain nonbelievers don't respect you and persecute them for innocent mistakes at the same time.

                                                                Mysha

Subject: RE: Challenge just a Teddy with a wrong name
From: Amos
Date: 30 Nov 07 - 08:39 PM

"A seven-year-old Sudanese boy has defended his British teacher, who stands accused of insulting Islam's prophet, saying that he had suggested calling the class teddy bear Muhammad because it was his own name.
Police arrested Gillian Gibbons, 54, on Sunday after complaints by parents that she had acted blasphemously in allowing the toy to be called Muhammad. Gibbons, a teacher at the exclusive British-style Unity high school in Khartoum, had asked her pupils to name the bear as part of a project to teach them about animals and their habitats. "The teacher asked me what I wanted to call the teddy," the boy told Reuters. "I said Muhammad. I named it after my name."


From the UK Guardian

---

It behooves those who are so anxious to find a reason to be insulted to notice that the bear was named by the students in the class; and the "Muhammed" offering which won the vote was the name of a seven-year old boy. Not a dead prophet.

What is the matter with these people? Sheeshe.


A

Subject: RE: Challenge just a Teddy with a wrong name
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 30 Nov 07 - 08:57 PM

"Fuzzy Wuzzy was the term used by British soldiers for the Sudanese Mahdist troops in the 1880s"

... and also the term given by Aussie troops for the natives in New Guinea during WWII - obviously drawing on our British History...



"the "Muhammed" offering which won the vote was the name of a seven-year old boy. Not a dead prophet."

Of course the boy WAS named after the prophet - it is a mark of great respect for you to name your child that...



"I'm not sure a lot of people would like headlines like "Jesus sent down for five years","

Some might think that Jesus was always going down for one reason or another...

Subject: RE: Challenge just a Teddy with a wrong name
From: Rumncoke
Date: 01 Dec 07 - 09:01 AM

tune - Not much fun being a gnome

I'm just a little teddy who's in a cupboard by myself
I do wish someone nice would come and take me off this shelf
For now the school's been shut and I'm really in a rut
This is so detrimental to my health

Oh we used to be so happy in our little school
When I was just called Teddy Bear that was really cool
But then they changed my name, and the teacher got the blame
Because it seems that went and broke some rule

Now everyone is angry and I think it might be at me
But just why ever that should be I really cannot see
They are all being nasty they should play nice and fair
Not hate me for being Mister M. E. Bear.

Subject: RE: Challenge just a Teddy with a wrong name
From: kendall
Date: 01 Dec 07 - 09:14 AM

I wonder...what would Pat Robertson say if some Muslim teacher named his dog Jesus?

Our own Bible forbids graven images.

Let's not lose sight of the real fact here; it is against Islamic law to depict the prophet in any way. Sure, we think they over reacted, but it's their country and their laws.
I also wonder what would happen if we were to start minding our own buiness.

Subject: RE: Challenge just a Teddy with a wrong name
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 01 Dec 07 - 01:23 PM

But in the UK, the PC namby pambies bend over (!!!) backwards (painful) to accomodate the apparent likes and dislikes of these people.......enough said!

Subject: RE: Challenge just a Teddy with a wrong name
From: GUEST,The Mole Catcher's Apprentice
Date: 01 Dec 07 - 01:35 PM

"Our own Bible forbids graven images" and there is alot of them about, for something that is "forbidden"

"their country and their laws." the old when in Roman saying. Before you go overseas it's better to research the country you're going to long before you step off the plane or boat, then you don't get caught short. Having said that I don't think it's beholden for England to take the moral high ground here.

Subject: RE: Challenge just a Teddy with a wrong name
From: GUEST,The Mole Catcher's Apprentice
Date: 01 Dec 07 - 01:37 PM

AND...... Neither can the Sudan take the moral high ground, certainly not with the The Darfur conflict hanging over their heads.

Subject: RE: Challenge just a Teddy with a wrong name
From: Rumncoke
Date: 01 Dec 07 - 01:59 PM

Our own bible forbids graven images?

Well - no, I don't think so.

I think it is the Koran which forbids all images. The bible has 'thou shalt not worship a graven image' which rather implies that it was expected that they are in existance, but unworshiped.

Subject: RE: Challenge just a Teddy with a wrong name
From: GUEST
Date: 01 Dec 07 - 05:31 PM

I am starting a new religion: the followers of the four blessed prophets, Teddy, Rupert, Paddington and Pudsey . Woe betide anyone who names a bear after any of them.

Subject: RE: Challenge just a Teddy with a wrong name
From: Little Hawk
Date: 01 Dec 07 - 06:01 PM

"What is the matter with these people?"

Knee-jerk reactions by ill-informed and not very well-educated people, based on their culture, Amos.

It's been a problem ever since human culture has existed. Think back to some of the outrageous lynchings of Blacks that occurred in America not all that long ago over similarly flimsy excuses. People tend to act before they think, unfortunately, and they also tend to assume the worst.

In this case a bunch of Sudanese assumed that a foreign teacher named a teddy bear Muhammad deliberately to insult their holy prophet, as if she would be stupid enough and crazy enough to do such a thing deliberately!!! It's an asinine assumption on their part, but it is the sort of assumption that a lot of people tend to make in about 1/2 a second, depending on whose version of the story they happened to hear first. I've seen people around here make equally stupid assumptions about something they just heard about on the news or from their neighbour.

Subject: RE: Challenge just a Teddy with a wrong name
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 01 Dec 07 - 06:20 PM

Rumncoke

that was the line I was hoping would arise - never thought of using THAT tune - brillant choice of tune!


"I am starting a new religion: the followers of the four blessed prophets, Teddy, Rupert, Paddington and Pudsey . Woe betide anyone who names a bear after any of them."

Well, Teddy's dead, and Rupert's getting very old...

Subject: RE: Challenge just a Teddy with a wrong name
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 01 Dec 07 - 07:30 PM

Our cat is called Joshua, which is the same name as Jesus.

I'd be hopping mad at these idiots if I was a Moslem. Those guys parading round with swords calling for an innocent woman to be murdered in the name of my religion - I'd see them as the blasphemers and the enemies of Islam. And in fact there waqs a demonstration outside the Sudanese Embassy in London today by Moslems who felt that way - Muslims in jailed teacher protest
.........................

The daft thing is that as a result of all this nonsense lots of bears are going to be called Mohammed, and I can quite see the name "Mo Bear" taking off as a substitute to Teddy.
............................
"So 'Achmed Mohamed' would be no problem and 'Mohamed Achmed' wouldn't be either. But 'Teddy Mohamed' is different." If Achmed Muhammed is OK, why not Theodore Muhammed? Or Tadros, since I understand that's the Arabic for Theodore.
.....................

Mo, Mo, Mo the bear, just a friendly thought,
Verily, verily, verily, verily,
Life is very short...

Subject: RE: Challenge just a Teddy with a wrong name
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 01 Dec 07 - 07:40 PM

Our cat is called Joshua, which is the same name as Jesus.
...............................

I'd be hopping mad at these idiots if I was a Moslem. Those guys parading round with swords calling for an innocent woman to be murdered in the name of my religion - I'd see them as the blasphemers and the enemies of Islam. And in fact there was a demonstration outside the Sudanese Embassy in London today by Moslems who felt that way - Muslims in jailed teacher protest
.........................

The daft thing is that as a result of all this nonsense lots of Teddy Bears are going to be called Mohammed, for all the wrong reasons, and I can quite see the name "Mo Bear" taking off as a substitute to Teddy.
............................
"So 'Achmed Mohamed' would be no problem and 'Mohamed Achmed' wouldn't be either. But 'Teddy Mohamed' is different." If Achmed Muhammed is OK, why not Theodore Muhammed? Or Tadros, since I understand that's the Arabic for Theodore.
.....................

Mo, Mo, Mo the bear, just a friendly thought,
Verily, verily, verily, verily,
Life is very short...

.........................
Mohammed's pet cat once fell asleep lying on the Prophet's sleeve, it is said - so rather than disturb it, he cut off the sleeve of his garment. I can't see him having too much regard for those pillocks in Khartoum calling for Gillian Gibbons' death.

Subject: Thou shalt ...
From: Mysha
Date: 02 Dec 07 - 07:42 AM

Hi,

McGrath,
You quote me, but you're reaction seems to suggest you take it as my opinion that "Theodore Mohammed" is different. I wrote that, however, as the conclusion drawn from the incident and the elaboration I wrote just above that sentence. And a possible explanation I gave in the next paragraph.

Rum,
In the King James bible, the second commandment (Exodus 20:4-5) says: "Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them ..." Though some translations limit the first part already to images to be worshipped, I'd say it's more common to have the text of this commandment refer to the creation of any image.

Apprentice:
Quite a few images are around, indeed. I expect that's because, not everyone on Earth is a follower of Mozes, and a common interpretation of this commandment is indeed that the second part of this commandment is its essense, which allows images provided they are not worshipped.

But to get back to the subject, Islam and Judaism still forbid the creation of any image. Obviously, this would include a doll in the shape of a bear cub. It does make you wonder how these protesting parents could even find out about the bear's name.

                                                                Mysha

Subject: RE: Challenge just a Teddy with a wrong name
From: Jean(eanjay)
Date: 02 Dec 07 - 08:15 AM

Apparently the teacher herself had a letter sent to the parents about the choosing of the name which really shows just how naive she's been. A copy of this letter was shown on the evening news.

Some parents complained but the same report said that it was another teacher at the school who reported her.

Subject: RE: Challenge just a Teddy with a wrong name
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 02 Dec 07 - 09:06 AM

According to TV news yesterday, it was a school secretary, who has some kind of grievance against the school, who reported her. They also said the demonstration demanding her execution 'appeared to be carefully orchestrated'.

It's still a gross over-reaction.

Subject: RE: Challenge just a Teddy with a wrong name
From: kendall
Date: 02 Dec 07 - 12:40 PM

I'm not a Biblical scholar, but as I recall, that commandment says: "Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image of anything that is in the heaven or earth."

Subject: RE: Challenge just a Teddy with a wrong name
From: Amos
Date: 02 Dec 07 - 01:39 PM

Right....let's not have any of this human creativity; it's Reserved for the Paternal Powers. Ptui.



A

Subject: RE: Challenge just a Teddy with a wrong name
From: Doc John
Date: 02 Dec 07 - 01:44 PM

Hi'Fed Up With Religious Bullying'

Must check if 'Gordon of Kartoum' is available in DVD!

Doc John

Subject: RE: Challenge just a Teddy with a wrong name
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 02 Dec 07 - 03:56 PM

But not many songs so far.

Casting around for pre-existing songs with bears, the ones that spring to mind are Waltzing with Bears, Simon Smith and His Amazing Dancing Bear, The Teddy Bears Picnic and The Bear Went Over the Mountain.

Subject: RE: Challenge just a Teddy with a wrong name
From: GUEST, Mikefule
Date: 02 Dec 07 - 04:34 PM

The bit about "graven images" is nothing to do with making pictures or toys. It is to do with worshipping statues, images, etc. Pictures have been made of the prophet Mohammed, and these are accepted by some Muslims as simply legitimate illustrations. Don't forget all this nonsense in the books was written in a particular context by people with particular agendas a very long time ago. It can now interpreted literally or figuratively, strictly or flexibly to suit the purposes of any reader.

The fuss over this teacher is ridiculous. If she shuts up and keeps her head down, she'll be out in a few days, and she can choose to sell her story, do the chat shows and even write a book. On the BBC news, they were saying that the poor woman would be in a cell with 19 other women. Well, guess what: so was each of those 19 other women, and most of them still will be long after this teacher has escaped from her ordeal.

As it happens, she has been visited, she has food and water, and is being treated moderately well.

Subject: RE: Challenge just a Teddy with a wrong name
From: GUEST,The Mole Catcher's Apprentice
Date: 02 Dec 07 - 04:39 PM

On top of all this, the Catholics are up in arms about the new film, The Golden Compass..I quote

"It's not just atheistic," said Kiera McCaffrey, director of communications of the Catholic League for Religious and Civil Rights. "In these books everyone associated with Christianity is a torturer of children, a liar, power mad."

the rest of the article

Subject: RE: Challenge just a Teddy with a wrong name
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 02 Dec 07 - 07:16 PM

"...up in arms" ???

Not exactly.

Nor for that matter is it helpful to talk about "the Catholics are" or th "the Jews are", or for that matter "the Moslems are" in this kind of context. Life's a lot more variegated than such lazy use of language suggests, and perhaps sets out to achieve.

Subject: RE: Challenge just a Teddy with a wrong name
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 03 Dec 07 - 02:42 AM

Yer Right McG

"Mudcatters are all crazy"

except me of course, and 've got a psych's report that says so....


:-P

Subject: RE: Challenge just a Teddy with a wrong name
From: Rasener
Date: 03 Dec 07 - 04:00 AM

Well she is being released today. I hope they get her on the plane safely and that she is left in peace when she is back here.
For everybodys sake it could do with being left alone, but I suppose the gutter press will do their best as usual.