Subject: RE: Challenge just a Teddy with a wrong name From: GUEST,The Mole Catcher's Apprentice Date: 06 Dec 07 - 11:58 AM "It is their country! Why should we expect our way of doing things to prevail?" the west wants it their way simply because of western arrogance...that's why the United Snakes and its allies are in Iraq and Afghanistan. |
Subject: RE: Challenge just a Teddy with a wrong name From: The Fooles Troupe Date: 06 Dec 07 - 12:30 AM "because a court has made a bad decision, do we go round complaining of our own "miscarages of justice"?" Some of us do - that's where the current lot of Queensland Labour leaders learned their trade - unde teh Fascist Govt of "Uncle Joh"... I lived thru it... "She was treated better than the other prisoners!" Proof that their justice system is NO "better than ours"... Murray!!!!!!!!!!! |
Subject: RE: Challenge just a Teddy with a wrong name From: Murray MacLeod Date: 05 Dec 07 - 07:14 PM I thought the 15 days imprisonment was deserved, but deportation to Liverpool was a bit harsh imo |
Subject: RE: Challenge just a Teddy with a wrong name From: folk1e Date: 05 Dec 07 - 06:53 PM A couple of points we seem to be missing here:- 1 It is their country! Why should we expect our way of doing things to prevail? 2 We appear to be complaining because a court has made a bad decision, do we go round complaining of our own "miscarages of justice"? 3 A group of people has got together and started chanting and behaving in a threatening manner ....... not like our soccer fans, eh? 4 Their president has overturned the decision (in under a week)! How long does our apeals process take? 5 She was treated better than the other prisoners! 6 Dispite her terifyind ordeal the teacher in question has not had a bad word to say about the whole event! If we all "took a leaf from her book" the world would probably be a more pleasant and safer place! |
Subject: RE: Challenge just a Teddy with a wrong name From: Bonzo3legs Date: 05 Dec 07 - 03:50 PM And for the next "rent a mob"........lets all go to Buenos Aires!!There's always a good one there on Malvinas Day - April 2, this year they were assembled around the English Clock opposite Retiro Station. |
Subject: RE: Challenge just a Teddy with a wrong name From: Susan B Date: 05 Dec 07 - 03:26 PM I just want to know what happened to the teddy bear ;-( Susan B |
Subject: RE: Challenge just a Teddy with a wrong name From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 04 Dec 07 - 04:34 PM Bears are certainly in the news this week - here is the winner of the Turner Prize... |
Subject: RE: Challenge just a Teddy with a wrong name From: fogie Date: 04 Dec 07 - 11:43 AM Teddy Bears To Sudan Appeal Help us send the unwanted teddy bears of the UK to Sudan this Christmas to help show the underpriveleged and war ravaged people of this poor country what we feel about them - wait a minute- I meant Teddy Boys! |
Subject: RE: Challenge just a Teddy with a wrong name From: GUEST,BobL Date: 04 Dec 07 - 08:44 AM Just as a "put yourself in their shoes" exercise, consider what might be more or less acceptable in the Sudan, but would have the Law on you like a ton of bricks over here. Such as waving a sword in public and screaming "Kill". Actually I wouldn't mind betting that the ones involved were normal law-abiding citizens getting a bit carried away, no more inclined to commit a real murder than, say, the average Millwall supporter... |
Subject: RE: Challenge just a Teddy with a wrong name From: Charley Noble Date: 03 Dec 07 - 08:36 PM So now she's pardoned and on her way home. That works for me. Might be worth one more verse. Charley Noble |
Subject: RE: Challenge just a Teddy with a wrong name From: Amos Date: 03 Dec 07 - 08:20 PM Turns out the complaint was originally filed not by a parent or a conscientious Muslim, but by an embittered fired employee who wanted to close the school in revenge. What IS it with these guys? Sheeshe. A |
Subject: RE: Challenge just a Teddy with a wrong name From: Jack Campin Date: 03 Dec 07 - 08:02 PM As I understand it, the court that sentenced the teacher was a local one acting on its own initiative. Sunni Muslim judicial systems are not centralized, and the goverment was acting in an irregular way by intervening. And how many years has Kenny Richey been waiting on death row for the US government to step in and overrule the Ohio kangaroo court that sentenced him? Sudan looks pretty enlightened in comparison. |
Subject: RE: Challenge just a Teddy with a wrong name From: GUEST,The Mole Catcher's Apprentice Date: 03 Dec 07 - 06:17 PM "So why write "the" instead of "some" if "some" was what was meant?" like I said there's always going to somebody(s) bothered by something *LOL* |
Subject: RE: Challenge just a Teddy with a wrong name From: bankley Date: 03 Dec 07 - 05:08 PM When the leader's name is 'All Basher'(sic).... you gotta know that the country is carpeted in eggshells.. |
Subject: RE: Challenge just a Teddy with a wrong name From: Amos Date: 03 Dec 07 - 05:07 PM Oh, go for it, Charley. You could use some of the leftover molds from the plastic Crusadaer figures of the 50's representing medieval Christians and just mold them using a different colored plastic, maybe a few more beards, and plunk them into jeeps instead of onto horses, and no-one will know the difference. Oh, modify the headgear. Love to see the ad campaign for little kids to collect the whole set "Muhammed Teaches", "Muhammed in the Desert", "Muhammed Does Jihad", ...you'd have to do some resrearch to find out all the heroic moments needing illustration. A |
Subject: RE: Challenge just a Teddy with a wrong name From: Charley Noble Date: 03 Dec 07 - 04:29 PM I guess bringing out a line of Muhammad Action figures wouldn't be such a great idea? Charley Ignoble |
Subject: RE: Challenge just a Teddy with a wrong name From: Rasener Date: 03 Dec 07 - 04:25 PM I wonder if i will get into trouble calling my Gollywog doll, Golly Robertson |
Subject: RE: Challenge just a Teddy with a wrong name From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 03 Dec 07 - 04:19 PM So why write "the" instead of "some" if "some" was what was meant? |
Subject: RE: Challenge just a Teddy with a wrong name From: GUEST,The Mole Catcher's Apprentice Date: 03 Dec 07 - 03:54 PM "Nor for that matter is it helpful to talk about "the Catholics are" or th "the Jews are", or for that matter "the Moslems are" in this kind of context. Life's a lot more variegated than such lazy use of language suggests, and perhaps sets out to achieve" I don't set out to achieve anything except to quote what I find, personally I don't care if some Catholics have a problem with The Gold Compass...they also had a problem with The Exorcist as well, there's always going to be some group bothered about something...the list and potential is endless.... |
Subject: RE: Challenge just a Teddy with a wrong name From: Ritchie Date: 03 Dec 07 - 02:33 PM The times they are a changing ..... I wonder if I will get into trouble for calling my teddy "Glady"? I did n't realise it was religous until all this hullaballoo started. Yes "Gladly, the cross eyed bear" could get me into a lot of trouble! |
Subject: RE: Challenge just a Teddy with a wrong name From: Amos Date: 03 Dec 07 - 11:09 AM (CBS/AP) A British teacher jailed after she allowed her students to name a teddy bear Muhammad was released Monday hours after Sudan's president pardoned her, a British embassy spokesman said. "She is in British embassy custody and is with the deputy British ambassador," embassy spokesman Omar Daair said. He would not give her exact location or say when she would leave Sudan. President Omar al-Bashir earlier agreed to pardon Gillian Gibbons, putting an end to a case that has outraged Britons and Muslims around the world. Gibbons said she did not intend to offend anyone and had the great respect for Islam. "The president has told us he has already signed the papers for her pardon," Lord Nazir Ahmed told reporters after a meeting with al-Bashir at his presidential palace. He and Baroness Sayeeda Warsi, a fellow Muslim representative from Britain's House of Lords, had been meeting with al-Bashir to plea for Gibbons' pardon. |
Subject: RE: Challenge just a Teddy with a wrong name From: oldhippie Date: 03 Dec 07 - 07:12 AM Moral: If you're gonna be a bear, be a grizzly. |
Subject: RE: Challenge just a Teddy with a wrong name From: The Fooles Troupe Date: 03 Dec 07 - 06:35 AM Well, I have just heard that she has been pardoned - apparently after serving the full time. So now we can have a final verse - the 'traditional' happy ending... do we need a moral too? |
Subject: RE: Challenge just a Teddy with a wrong name From: Rasener Date: 03 Dec 07 - 04:00 AM Well she is being released today. I hope they get her on the plane safely and that she is left in peace when she is back here. For everybodys sake it could do with being left alone, but I suppose the gutter press will do their best as usual. |
Subject: RE: Challenge just a Teddy with a wrong name From: The Fooles Troupe Date: 03 Dec 07 - 02:42 AM Yer Right McG "Mudcatters are all crazy" except me of course, and 've got a psych's report that says so.... :-P |
Subject: RE: Challenge just a Teddy with a wrong name From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 02 Dec 07 - 07:16 PM "...up in arms" ??? Not exactly. Nor for that matter is it helpful to talk about "the Catholics are" or th "the Jews are", or for that matter "the Moslems are" in this kind of context. Life's a lot more variegated than such lazy use of language suggests, and perhaps sets out to achieve. |
Subject: RE: Challenge just a Teddy with a wrong name From: GUEST,The Mole Catcher's Apprentice Date: 02 Dec 07 - 04:39 PM On top of all this, the Catholics are up in arms about the new film, The Golden Compass..I quote "It's not just atheistic," said Kiera McCaffrey, director of communications of the Catholic League for Religious and Civil Rights. "In these books everyone associated with Christianity is a torturer of children, a liar, power mad." the rest of the article |
Subject: RE: Challenge just a Teddy with a wrong name From: GUEST, Mikefule Date: 02 Dec 07 - 04:34 PM The bit about "graven images" is nothing to do with making pictures or toys. It is to do with worshipping statues, images, etc. Pictures have been made of the prophet Mohammed, and these are accepted by some Muslims as simply legitimate illustrations. Don't forget all this nonsense in the books was written in a particular context by people with particular agendas a very long time ago. It can now interpreted literally or figuratively, strictly or flexibly to suit the purposes of any reader. The fuss over this teacher is ridiculous. If she shuts up and keeps her head down, she'll be out in a few days, and she can choose to sell her story, do the chat shows and even write a book. On the BBC news, they were saying that the poor woman would be in a cell with 19 other women. Well, guess what: so was each of those 19 other women, and most of them still will be long after this teacher has escaped from her ordeal. As it happens, she has been visited, she has food and water, and is being treated moderately well. |
Subject: RE: Challenge just a Teddy with a wrong name From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 02 Dec 07 - 03:56 PM But not many songs so far. Casting around for pre-existing songs with bears, the ones that spring to mind are Waltzing with Bears, Simon Smith and His Amazing Dancing Bear, The Teddy Bears Picnic and The Bear Went Over the Mountain. |
Subject: RE: Challenge just a Teddy with a wrong name From: Doc John Date: 02 Dec 07 - 01:44 PM Hi'Fed Up With Religious Bullying' Must check if 'Gordon of Kartoum' is available in DVD! Doc John |
Subject: RE: Challenge just a Teddy with a wrong name From: Amos Date: 02 Dec 07 - 01:39 PM Right....let's not have any of this human creativity; it's Reserved for the Paternal Powers. Ptui. A |
Subject: RE: Challenge just a Teddy with a wrong name From: kendall Date: 02 Dec 07 - 12:40 PM I'm not a Biblical scholar, but as I recall, that commandment says: "Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image of anything that is in the heaven or earth." |
Subject: RE: Challenge just a Teddy with a wrong name From: Backwoodsman Date: 02 Dec 07 - 09:06 AM According to TV news yesterday, it was a school secretary, who has some kind of grievance against the school, who reported her. They also said the demonstration demanding her execution 'appeared to be carefully orchestrated'. It's still a gross over-reaction. |
Subject: RE: Challenge just a Teddy with a wrong name From: Jean(eanjay) Date: 02 Dec 07 - 08:15 AM Apparently the teacher herself had a letter sent to the parents about the choosing of the name which really shows just how naive she's been. A copy of this letter was shown on the evening news. Some parents complained but the same report said that it was another teacher at the school who reported her. |
Subject: Thou shalt ... From: Mysha Date: 02 Dec 07 - 07:42 AM Hi, McGrath, You quote me, but you're reaction seems to suggest you take it as my opinion that "Theodore Mohammed" is different. I wrote that, however, as the conclusion drawn from the incident and the elaboration I wrote just above that sentence. And a possible explanation I gave in the next paragraph. Rum, In the King James bible, the second commandment (Exodus 20:4-5) says: "Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them ..." Though some translations limit the first part already to images to be worshipped, I'd say it's more common to have the text of this commandment refer to the creation of any image. Apprentice: Quite a few images are around, indeed. I expect that's because, not everyone on Earth is a follower of Mozes, and a common interpretation of this commandment is indeed that the second part of this commandment is its essense, which allows images provided they are not worshipped. But to get back to the subject, Islam and Judaism still forbid the creation of any image. Obviously, this would include a doll in the shape of a bear cub. It does make you wonder how these protesting parents could even find out about the bear's name. Mysha |
Subject: RE: Challenge just a Teddy with a wrong name From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 01 Dec 07 - 07:40 PM Our cat is called Joshua, which is the same name as Jesus. ............................... I'd be hopping mad at these idiots if I was a Moslem. Those guys parading round with swords calling for an innocent woman to be murdered in the name of my religion - I'd see them as the blasphemers and the enemies of Islam. And in fact there was a demonstration outside the Sudanese Embassy in London today by Moslems who felt that way - Muslims in jailed teacher protest ......................... The daft thing is that as a result of all this nonsense lots of Teddy Bears are going to be called Mohammed, for all the wrong reasons, and I can quite see the name "Mo Bear" taking off as a substitute to Teddy. ............................ "So 'Achmed Mohamed' would be no problem and 'Mohamed Achmed' wouldn't be either. But 'Teddy Mohamed' is different." If Achmed Muhammed is OK, why not Theodore Muhammed? Or Tadros, since I understand that's the Arabic for Theodore. ..................... Mo, Mo, Mo the bear, just a friendly thought, Verily, verily, verily, verily, Life is very short... ......................... Mohammed's pet cat once fell asleep lying on the Prophet's sleeve, it is said - so rather than disturb it, he cut off the sleeve of his garment. I can't see him having too much regard for those pillocks in Khartoum calling for Gillian Gibbons' death. |
Subject: RE: Challenge just a Teddy with a wrong name From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 01 Dec 07 - 07:30 PM Our cat is called Joshua, which is the same name as Jesus. I'd be hopping mad at these idiots if I was a Moslem. Those guys parading round with swords calling for an innocent woman to be murdered in the name of my religion - I'd see them as the blasphemers and the enemies of Islam. And in fact there waqs a demonstration outside the Sudanese Embassy in London today by Moslems who felt that way - ......................... The daft thing is that as a result of all this nonsense lots of bears are going to be called Mohammed, and I can quite see the name "Mo Bear" taking off as a substitute to Teddy. ............................ "So 'Achmed Mohamed' would be no problem and 'Mohamed Achmed' wouldn't be either. But 'Teddy Mohamed' is different." If Achmed Muhammed is OK, why not Theodore Muhammed? Or Tadros, since I understand that's the Arabic for Theodore. ..................... Mo, Mo, Mo the bear, just a friendly thought, Verily, verily, verily, verily, Life is very short... |
Subject: RE: Challenge just a Teddy with a wrong name From: The Fooles Troupe Date: 01 Dec 07 - 06:20 PM Rumncoke that was the line I was hoping would arise - never thought of using THAT tune - brillant choice of tune! "I am starting a new religion: the followers of the four blessed prophets, Teddy, Rupert, Paddington and Pudsey . Woe betide anyone who names a bear after any of them." Well, Teddy's dead, and Rupert's getting very old... |
Subject: RE: Challenge just a Teddy with a wrong name From: Little Hawk Date: 01 Dec 07 - 06:01 PM "What is the matter with these people?" Knee-jerk reactions by ill-informed and not very well-educated people, based on their culture, Amos. It's been a problem ever since human culture has existed. Think back to some of the outrageous lynchings of Blacks that occurred in America not all that long ago over similarly flimsy excuses. People tend to act before they think, unfortunately, and they also tend to assume the worst. In this case a bunch of Sudanese assumed that a foreign teacher named a teddy bear Muhammad deliberately to insult their holy prophet, as if she would be stupid enough and crazy enough to do such a thing deliberately!!! It's an asinine assumption on their part, but it is the sort of assumption that a lot of people tend to make in about 1/2 a second, depending on whose version of the story they happened to hear first. I've seen people around here make equally stupid assumptions about something they just heard about on the news or from their neighbour. |
Subject: RE: Challenge just a Teddy with a wrong name From: GUEST Date: 01 Dec 07 - 05:31 PM I am starting a new religion: the followers of the four blessed prophets, Teddy, Rupert, Paddington and Pudsey . Woe betide anyone who names a bear after any of them. |
Subject: RE: Challenge just a Teddy with a wrong name From: Rumncoke Date: 01 Dec 07 - 01:59 PM Our own bible forbids graven images? Well - no, I don't think so. I think it is the Koran which forbids all images. The bible has 'thou shalt not worship a graven image' which rather implies that it was expected that they are in existance, but unworshiped. |
Subject: RE: Challenge just a Teddy with a wrong name From: GUEST,The Mole Catcher's Apprentice Date: 01 Dec 07 - 01:37 PM AND...... Neither can the Sudan take the moral high ground, certainly not with the The Darfur conflict hanging over their heads. |
Subject: RE: Challenge just a Teddy with a wrong name From: GUEST,The Mole Catcher's Apprentice Date: 01 Dec 07 - 01:35 PM "Our own Bible forbids graven images" and there is alot of them about, for something that is "forbidden" "their country and their laws." the old when in Roman saying. Before you go overseas it's better to research the country you're going to long before you step off the plane or boat, then you don't get caught short. Having said that I don't think it's beholden for England to take the moral high ground here. |
Subject: RE: Challenge just a Teddy with a wrong name From: Bonzo3legs Date: 01 Dec 07 - 01:23 PM But in the UK, the PC namby pambies bend over (!!!) backwards (painful) to accomodate the apparent likes and dislikes of these people.......enough said! |
Subject: RE: Challenge just a Teddy with a wrong name From: kendall Date: 01 Dec 07 - 09:14 AM I wonder...what would Pat Robertson say if some Muslim teacher named his dog Jesus? Our own Bible forbids graven images. Let's not lose sight of the real fact here; it is against Islamic law to depict the prophet in any way. Sure, we think they over reacted, but it's their country and their laws. I also wonder what would happen if we were to start minding our own buiness. |
Subject: RE: Challenge just a Teddy with a wrong name From: Rumncoke Date: 01 Dec 07 - 09:01 AM tune - Not much fun being a gnome I'm just a little teddy who's in a cupboard by myself I do wish someone nice would come and take me off this shelf For now the school's been shut and I'm really in a rut This is so detrimental to my health Oh we used to be so happy in our little school When I was just called Teddy Bear that was really cool But then they changed my name, and the teacher got the blame Because it seems that went and broke some rule Now everyone is angry and I think it might be at me But just why ever that should be I really cannot see They are all being nasty they should play nice and fair Not hate me for being Mister M. E. Bear. |
Subject: RE: Challenge just a Teddy with a wrong name From: The Fooles Troupe Date: 30 Nov 07 - 08:57 PM "Fuzzy Wuzzy was the term used by British soldiers for the Sudanese Mahdist troops in the 1880s" ... and also the term given by Aussie troops for the natives in New Guinea during WWII - obviously drawing on our British History... "the "Muhammed" offering which won the vote was the name of a seven-year old boy. Not a dead prophet." Of course the boy WAS named after the prophet - it is a mark of great respect for you to name your child that... "I'm not sure a lot of people would like headlines like "Jesus sent down for five years"," Some might think that Jesus was always going down for one reason or another... |
Subject: RE: Challenge just a Teddy with a wrong name From: Amos Date: 30 Nov 07 - 08:39 PM "A seven-year-old Sudanese boy has defended his British teacher, who stands accused of insulting Islam's prophet, saying that he had suggested calling the class teddy bear Muhammad because it was his own name. Police arrested Gillian Gibbons, 54, on Sunday after complaints by parents that she had acted blasphemously in allowing the toy to be called Muhammad. Gibbons, a teacher at the exclusive British-style Unity high school in Khartoum, had asked her pupils to name the bear as part of a project to teach them about animals and their habitats. "The teacher asked me what I wanted to call the teddy," the boy told Reuters. "I said Muhammad. I named it after my name." From the UK Guardian It behooves those who are so anxious to find a reason to be insulted to notice that the bear was named by the students in the class; and the "Muhammed" offering which won the vote was the name of a seven-year old boy. Not a dead prophet. What is the matter with these people? Sheeshe. A |
Subject: RE: Challenge just a Teddy with a wrong name From: Mysha Date: 30 Nov 07 - 11:00 AM Hi Roger, I wasn't (just) kidding when at the end of For My Name, I had the bear say that name was "Theodore". "Mohamed" is a normal last name in Sudan, or at any rate one shared by people seen representing Sudan: artists, ambassadors, ministers, soccer players. It's also not uncommon as middle name, I'd say, and is at least an acceptable first name. So "Achmed Mohamed" would be no problem and "Mohamed Achmed" wouldn't be either. But "Teddy Mohamed" is different. I guess the problem lies in the fact that a teddy in itself would not be allowed by the Islam, as it's a depiction of an animal. I'm not sure a lot of people would like headlines like "Jesus sent down for five years", associating that name with a criminal. Similarly, people might not like the name of their prophet associated with a sin. But you can't complain nonbelievers don't respect you and persecute them for innocent mistakes at the same time. Mysha |
Subject: RE: Challenge just a Teddy with a wrong name From: Peace Date: 30 Nov 07 - 10:20 AM Call the teddy bear Aisha. |
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