H2 & H4 - Computer Connections

Subject: H2 & H4 - Computer Connections
From: RTim
Date: 27 Nov 07 - 03:11 PM

I am thinking about buying either a Zoom H2 or H4, and I wonder what experiences anyone has connecting to a Mac computer?
Does it just pick up iTunes, or do you need some other form of software on your Mac?
I am NOT running Leopard at present (I know there is extra software needed for the H2 and Leopard) but I am currently running Mac OS X 10.3.9.

Thanks
Tim Radford

Subject: RE: H2 & H4 - Computer Connections
From: RTim
Date: 27 Nov 07 - 10:15 PM

No body got any experiences?

Tim

Subject: RE: H2 & H4 - Computer Connections
From: Amos
Date: 27 Nov 07 - 10:21 PM

Tim:

Although I have no experience I believe they both have USB output ports; if so, it is a matter of simple plug and play. But I have no first hand data about either unit.


A

Subject: RE: H2 & H4 - Computer Connections
From: Bonnie Shaljean
Date: 27 Nov 07 - 10:33 PM

Try asking some of the folks in Kendall's "PC vs Mac" thread to take a look at this one ;-)

There are a bunch of Maccies there - but, apart from Amos (who posted while I was writing this masterpiece), they may not realise from this thread title that your question relates to Macs.

Subject: RE: H2 & H4 - Computer Connections
From: Anglo
Date: 28 Nov 07 - 12:59 AM

Nothing to do with iTunes, you download the wave or mp3 files you have recorded directly on to the computer HD, where you can edit them as you see fit in a program like Audition or Amadeus, divide up into tracks or whatever, convert to mp3 if necessary, and _then_ import them to iTunes if you really want to.

(And I told you why you want the Edirol rather than the Zoom, so _don't_ believe me... :-)

(And yes, I'm a Maccie - both Edirol and Zoom download directly to Mac or PC - hook it up to the computer and it looks like a remote drive).

Subject: RE: H2 & H4 - Computer Connections
From: M.Ted
Date: 28 Nov 07 - 05:31 PM

I have the Edirol, and a bunch of other palm devices that I use with my Mac.

Angelo is right, when you connect the Zoom(or other recording device) with the USB cable, it will come up as a remote drive. Be careful, though, because the iTunes can upload sound files automatically from any media that is connected, (which you don't want to happen, because it tends to convert them to the Apple compressed format, and then hides them away) so make sure you set preferences for both iTunes and iPod so that it doesn't do anything automatically--

Rather than connect the device by USB, though, I find it easier to just pop the memory card out and then pop it into my card reader. Transfering files is usually faster, I don't have device interface complications, and I don't have to keep track of which cable fits which device.

At any rate, you can listen to your files in either iTunes or Quicktime player. You have to load the files into iTunes, and fool around with all those aliases and playlists, though. You can get VLC, which is freeware, and allows you to simply drag and drop a file to play it, or to create a playlist(which quicktime doesn't do). Don't get me started on an iTunes rant--

There is also MPlay, which is shareware, and is similar to VLC with some editing features.

As to editing--well, you can do that in "Garage Band"--though it is another program that has does things the way that Apple wants to do them, rather than the way that simple or straightforward. "Audacity" is a nice, basic freeware, and Amoeba Fission is good and inexpensive. Sound Studio was once a very simple recording and editing tool, but it has gotten big, with a bigger price tag--

Subject: RE: H2 & H4 - Computer Connections
From: johnadams
Date: 28 Nov 07 - 05:54 PM

anglo,

I'm on the point of ordering an H2. (It's been in the shopping cart for two days and I'm still wondering if I should press the 'checkout' button).


What are your reservations?   

J

Subject: RE: H2 & H4 - Computer Connections
From: Anglo
Date: 28 Nov 07 - 11:05 PM

johnadams, The kicker for me is that it doesn't have a manual level control, it's software. The Edirol R-09 has two buttons on the left side, + and -, which are dedicated to record level (similarly on the right for playback level). If I'm recording somewhere I really don't want to futz around trying to find the right menu to change the level, and I don't think auto level works well enough.

Now I've met people who are very happy with the Zoom, so it may not be as bad a picture as I paint. I've never used one. But I know several people who use the Edirol (3 of us at the last Irish session, all different colors), and we are all very happy with it.

Hope this helps.

(PS Johnny, Please send me your mailing address)

Subject: RE: H2 & H4 - Computer Connections
From: johnadams
Date: 04 Dec 07 - 07:22 AM

I've bought the H2 last week and took it to last nights session in Ripponden. I switched it to 2 track surround sound record (that combines front and rear stereo mics into a single stereo file) , stuck it on the table and left it alone for the night.


Listening to the recordings today, I'm very impressed with the quality. The stereo image is well defined, the recordings noiseless and it does the job I need it to do.

The two AA batteries are still in good condition today. My MicroTrack gives up the ghost towards the end of the 2 to 3 hour session.

Anglo's comments about the lack of manual level control don't apply to the H2 which has said facility on the front panel. Is it the H4 that's plagued with menu control?

The only minor gripe I have is that when you press a button, the action that takes place is delayed by enough time for you to wonder if you've pressed the button at all. Something to get used to.

The machine itself is not built like a tank - quite plasticky and light - but what did I expect for £150?

As to the question posed by the thread - I plugged it into my Mac laptop (OS 10.4.10), confirmed on the H2 that I wanted it to be storage and not a USB microphone and found the recordings in one of the machine's folders. My Mac is set to play mp3s via the Quicktime player and it worked fine. If I'd set the H2 to record WAVs then Audacity would have launched as that's what I use to edit wavs when not using ProTools.

I think it's a brilliant machine for recording sessions due to the surround sound facility. If I had a bigger card I could set it to record front and rear stereo to 4 tracks and be able to decide later whether to keep both legs of the recording but that only works with WAVs and not mp3 so it's greedy for space on the SD card (mine's 512 Mb as supplied).


It's got a built in tuner and although I'm not one for extra gizmos on stuff, I used it to tune my fiddle and it worked well.

I like it a lot!

J

Subject: RE: H2 & H4 - Computer Connections
From: Midchuck
Date: 04 Dec 07 - 10:28 AM

I also have the Edirol R-09, and am very pleased with it thus far. And I still have a lot to learn. I just downloaded the software to upgrade it to be able to use up to 8-gig SD cards, and I'm trying to work up the courage to do the install.

Peter

Subject: RE: H2 & H4 - Computer Connections
From: johnadams
Date: 04 Dec 07 - 10:49 AM

Go for it. Your Edirol, in common with most recorders, should have a built in routine to reset to factory parameters of things go wrong.

8gB? How many hours of 320kB-mp3 is that I wonder? Can't be bothered to do the sums - it's obviously lots!

J

Subject: RE: H2 & H4 - Computer Connections
From:
Date: 04 Dec 07 - 10:56 AM

Hi. I've had the Edirol R-for about a year now, and love it. - I just bought the H4 2 wks ago and experimenting with it.

As someone said above the H4 has no easy way to change the input level when recording. - Also as a drawback it doesn't have Time of Day stamp for the files, or give any idea on how much space/time is left on the memory card in the display. You CAN call up the filesize of each file, but you would have to add/subtract to figure out approximately how much space you have left. - Still have to try attaching via USB to a computer but other than the above it's not too bad. I think I'll use the Zoom as a backup though because of the lack of the space/time and the timestamp

Subject: RE: H2 & H4 - Computer Connections
From: M.Ted
Date: 04 Dec 07 - 11:16 AM

You really want the 8g card to make 24bit/48kHz uncompressed recordings of sessions.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts on the H2, johnnyadams--I am curious to hear that "surround sound"--especially in the 4 track version--

It has occurred to me that it would be great indeed if there were a website where one could hear these sort of session recordings that are now possible. It would certainly enhance the mudcat experience to be able to hear the music that people are playing on a weekly basis.

Subject: RE: H2 & H4 - Computer Connections
From: Amos
Date: 04 Dec 07 - 11:24 AM

Here's a review of the Zoom H2 from O'Reilly.



A

Subject: RE: H2 & H4 - Computer Connections
From: johnadams
Date: 04 Dec 07 - 12:21 PM

M.Ted

I am hoping to start just such a site. I've installed the server (helix) but because it is a university project I have a lot of techy/security things to address and I'm presently off work medium term so I can't get to grips with it.

The project is based around the Paul Graney archive which I've been working with. He recorded on quarter inch tape and then cassette. Unfortunately his notes were lost when he died in 1982 and some of the recordings need identifying. If only quarter inch tape had had space for metadata!!!!!

The other issue is that I don't want to create myself a huge task uploading other people's recordings, I can't put a YouTube type thing in place thanks to university restrictions and the university also has expectations regarding copyright - so it's not a straightforward task (and it's extra to my normal duties and spare time isn't limitless as we all know).

As well as the Paul Graney recordings I've also got some other recorded collections which have come to me, mostly folk club recordings.

There is a meeting of the Traditional Song Forum in January at a northern university to discuss an embryonic project group to further this sort of archive.

On the other point, I'll report on the surround sound as soon as I can get some done. Apparently the two recordings can be resolved to 5.1 stereo but it probably needs a PC and I'm a Mac user. Also, I've no 5.1 capability at home.

J

Subject: RE: H2 & H4 - Computer Connections
From: Dave Ruch
Date: 04 Dec 07 - 02:43 PM

johnadams, I for one would love to see this type of site go up as well, for the same reason M Ted mentions and also to share other live folk club recordings, etc.

This thread has brought up a host of questions for me as a new owner of an Edirol R-09 and a fairly green consumer and user/editor of digital music.

For those who are making 24bit/48kHz uncompressed WAV recordings, how does one get them onto CD? Do they need to be compressed to 44.1kHz? Where do you store them on your computer, and what media player do you use to play them? I've noticed there are differences between iTunes and RealPlayer and Windows Media Player in terms of the ability to convert WAV files to mp3, or to compress a large WAV to a smaller WAV, a large mp3 to a smaller one, etc.

Subject: RE: H2 & H4 - Computer Connections
From: johnadams
Date: 04 Dec 07 - 03:41 PM

johnadams, I for one would love to see this type of site go up as well, for the same reason M Ted mentions and also to share other live folk club recordings, etc.

There is a new project called "Voices in the Attic" proposed by a member of the Traditional Song Forum. This project imitates something I'm already engaged in and so we're looking at joining forces, and gathering others with a similar interest to help institute a repository of recordings with a view to making as much as possible available via the internet (legal copyrights being the main factor). The intention is, in the first instance, to unearth older recordings that need safeguarding and then seek to deal with newer recordings as a contemporary archive. Early days but I'll keep folk informed of any developments.

This thread has brought up a host of questions for me as a new owner of an Edirol R-09 and a fairly green consumer and user/editor of digital music.

For those who are making 24bit/48kHz uncompressed WAV recordings, how does one get them onto CD? Do they need to be compressed to 44.1kHz?

"Compressed" is the wrong word. 24bit/48kHz is uncompressed and so is 16bit/44.1kHz which is what CDs use. They are just different sample rates. Mp3s, real and wa are compressed to take up less storage space. You need to change whatever you've got to AIFF interleaved 16bit/44.1kHz to go to CD. There are lots of programme that will do that depending on your platform.


Where do you store them on your computer, and what media player do you use to play them?

I store them all over the bloody shop, particularly in places where I can't find them again!! I SHOULD store them in a folder on my Mac hard drive called 'music'.

I've noticed there are differences between iTunes and RealPlayer and Windows Media Player in terms of the ability to convert WAV files to mp3, or to compress a large WAV to a smaller WAV, a large mp3 to a smaller one, etc.

iTunes is more of a music listening system than a serious editing or manipulation package. I'm sure there are things it can do but I just use it to play background music when I'm working.

Real Player can't, as far as I know, do any converting. Real Producer is the programme that produces Real Audio (but only on the PC) and there is a free version and a full version.

Windows Media is something I've never had to deal with and I know little about it but I'm sure there's a lot of expertise on Mudcat.

I use a range of software on my Mac and if you're interested I can expand.

Otherwise the PC brigade will provide lots of good advice.

J

Subject: RE: H2 & H4 - Computer Connections
From: RTim
Date: 04 Dec 07 - 04:28 PM

As I started this thread and I am still looking at the H2 (particularly after what Johnny says, and despite what my old friends Anglo has told me!)
I have recently "muddied my own waters" - by being offered a much cost reduced (ex-demo) Marantz-Denon PMD671 Solid State Recorder.
As I mainly wanted something to record on at home, and not to take to sessions, etc.. I am considering it. It seems to use the same types of software as is needed for the H2 or the Edirol - but is more professional.

Does any one know the machine or have anything to say about it?

Tim Radford

Subject: RE: H2 & H4 - Computer Connections
From: johnadams
Date: 04 Dec 07 - 04:43 PM

It's an excellent semi pro recorder. If I was offered one of those at a knock down price I'd be there with my cash in hand!

But.... what do you want to do with it? Obviously you want to record at home, but what do you need the software to do for you when you've recorded?

J

Subject: RE: H2 & H4 - Computer Connections
From: M.Ted
Date: 04 Dec 07 - 04:45 PM

A program such as Toast will automatically do the appropriate converting when you queue your tracks for burning to CD. You can set your Edirol to record 16 bit/44.1, as well.

As for storage, the best thing is to keep everything on a 7200rpm dedicated hard drive--dedicated, as in, nothing but music--I use a firewire drive and have things set up so that I can boot from the drive--a separate drive is pretty cheap, and it makes it a lot easier to keep things in order. Music files have a tendency to pile up, and there is nothing worse than having to trash photos of your family in order to create space for a half hour long blues jam.

Subject: RE: H2 & H4 - Computer Connections
From: RTim
Date: 04 Dec 07 - 06:54 PM

Hi Johnny - To begin with, and if they are good enough, I want to turn the recordings into a CD.
We will see what happens after that!

Tim Radford
www.timradford.com

Subject: RE: H2 & H4 - Computer Connections
From: M.Ted
Date: 04 Dec 07 - 11:29 PM

That is the unit that the journalists like to use. You can see them being shoved into the faces of all the presidential candidates on the evening news and on CSPAN--the radio people (what few are left) use them, but I think, for the most part, the print people use them as source material--

Subject: RE: H2 & H4 - Computer Connections
From: johnadams
Date: 05 Dec 07 - 07:25 AM

Tim:

Hi Johnny - To begin with, and if they are good enough, I want to turn the recordings into a CD.
We will see what happens after that!

Easy then.

Record your music - probably at 16bit/44.1kHz.

Use a card reader or USB lead plugged into your Mac to transfer the recordings to your internal or an external hard drive (7200rpm as advised by M.Ted).

Use Audacity or similar to edit the recordings - so that each track sounds like the finished article.

Export them as interleaved stereo aif files and import those files to an audio CD authoring/burning package to arrange the tracks and burn the CDs.

Toast is the CD software of choice these days but it costs a few dollars and there are freeware and shareware programs available.

I think it is possible to drag files other than aif 44.1kHz into Toast and it will do the conversions for you, but I"ve never tried it as I've been exporting to the proper format for years now and old habits die hard.

I hope that helps.

J

Subject: RE: H2 & H4 - Computer Connections
From: Don Firth
Date: 05 Dec 07 - 02:41 PM

UPS just delivered my Zoom H2 yesterday afternoon. As soon as I've mowed my way through the manual and figured out how to fly the thing, I'll be back to make comments (Neat little unit, but, Man! is that one small screen!).

My Visa card is bleeding right now. After reading a bunch of books and magazine articles and watching Roger McGuinn's DVD, "Guide to Home Recording on a Computer," I googled a lot, read a lot of reviews, and then ordered a mess of stuff (USB audio interface for my computer, a pair of condenser mics, a pair of good quality monitor headphones, and an exteral 500 GB hard disk [7200 rpm]) to set up my own home studio.

The Zoom H2 is not really intended to be an integral part of that. But it'll be a whole lot easier to pack around than the rest of the stuff.

As soon as I have some hands-on experience with it, I'll be back.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: H2 & H4 - Computer Connections
From: treewind
Date: 05 Dec 07 - 02:43 PM

"you really want the 8g card to make 24bit/48kHz uncompressed recordings of sessions."

Except that there's really no point in using 24/48 for recording a session with the internal mics. The the noise levels of a pub and the general quality of the internal mics don't merit better than a 256k or 320k MP3, which is really pretty good and takes far less recording space.

24/48 might be useful for recording a classical concert or making a studio recording with a pair of good condenser mics and an external preamp, but it's overkill on a pub session.

Anahata

Subject: RE: H2 & H4 - Computer Connections
From: RTim
Date: 05 Dec 07 - 04:16 PM

Again, at fear of muddying the waters, I was talking to someone today - like me a Mac user- who says he has got great results with Garage Band - just plug in a Mike and sing to your computer!!
What could be easier??

Tim Radford

Subject: RE: H2 & H4 - Computer Connections
From: M.Ted
Date: 06 Dec 07 - 12:26 AM

I have a couple laptops with recording software, and never record with them because it's a pain to connect all the wires, etc--much easier to carry a palm sized recorder around.

You'll have to spend a couple bucks for mikes, audio interface, etc--(you can just plug a USB mike in, but they're not the best mikes)- you'll end up with all the stuff you'd need for a desk top studio--so you won't end up saving anything, and it won't be very portable.

If you want a desk top studio, it's something to consider, though--