Songs for Sudanese Ministry of Justice

Subject: Songs for Sudanese Minister of Justice
From: melodeonboy
Date: 29 Nov 07 - 05:43 AM

In light of recent events, and as a token of appreciation for the sterling work that the Sudanese Justice Ministry does in maintaining high moral standards, I'd like to propose a list of songs which would be "essential listening" for the Sudanese Minister of Justice.

Here are my nominations:

"Teddy Bear" (Elvis Presley)
"Teddy Bears' Picnic"
"Waltzing with Bears"
"Whip Crack-Away"

Subject: RE: Songs for Sudanese Ministry of Justice
From: Peace
Date: 29 Nov 07 - 02:17 PM

Any funeral dirge would be a good thing, imo.

Subject: RE: Songs for Sudanese Ministry of Justice
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 29 Nov 07 - 02:32 PM

Ready Teddy
Muhammed Ali
Rumble in the Jungle

Subject: RE: Songs for Sudanese Ministry of Justice
From: GUEST,The Mole catcher's Apprentice
Date: 29 Nov 07 - 02:45 PM

Teddy Bear, Teddy Bear

Teddy Lost His Coat

Grizzly Bear

Subject: RE: Songs for Sudanese Ministry of Justice
From: GUEST,Songster Bob
Date: 29 Nov 07 - 02:52 PM

Well, since the mullahs and imams oppose music-making anyway, the idea of a 'theme song' is kind of lost on them, to be sure.

Bob

Subject: RE: Songs for Sudanese Ministry of Justice
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Nov 07 - 03:00 PM

"Well, since the mullahs and imams oppose music-making anyway"

Hmm...that's interesting...I'd bet you'd get an arguement from Yusuf Islam (Cat Stevens)over that remark...

An Other Cup

2006

Subject: RE: Songs for Sudanese Ministry of Justice
From: Amos
Date: 29 Nov 07 - 03:03 PM

How about

"Bongo, bongo, bongo, I don' wanna leave the jungle, no-o-o-o- not me!
Bingo bango bango, I'm so happy in the jungle I don' wanna gooooo..."



A

Subject: RE: Songs for Sudanese Ministry of Justice
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Nov 07 - 03:24 PM

Isn't it strange how we can treat asylum-seekers and (most) foreigners like shit - but let them lay a hand on one of ours.........
How about 'Rule Brittania'?
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: Songs for Sudanese Ministry of Justice
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 29 Nov 07 - 04:27 PM

So. let's see Jim, when did the British last arrest anyone for letting someone else call their teddy-bear "Mohammed" - or any other name?

Subject: RE: Songs for Sudanese Ministry of Justice
From: Azizi
Date: 29 Nov 07 - 04:34 PM

Fwiw, since I had no clue what this thread was about, I googled "Sudanese Ministry of Justice" and found this news report:

Sudan charges British teacher with insulting Islam
Thu 29 Nov 2007, 0:16 GMT

By Opheera McDoom

KHARTOUM, Nov 28 (Reuters) - A British teacher detained in Sudan after her class called a teddy bear Mohammad was charged on Wednesday with insulting Islam in a move that sparked a diplomatic row between London and Khartoum.

Gillian Gibbons, 54, was also charged with inciting hatred and showing contempt for religious beliefs, Sudanese official media said. If convicted, she could face 40 lashes, a fine, or one year in jail.

"Khartoum North prosecution unit has completed its investigation and has charged the Briton Gillian (Gibbons) under Article 125 of the criminal code," the Sudanese news agency SUNA said, quoting a senior Justice Ministry official.

In London, a Foreign Office spokesman confirmed Gibbons had been charged and officials said Foreign Secretary David Miliband was calling in the Sudanese ambassador over the affair.

"We are surprised and disappointed by this development and the foreign secretary will summon as a matter of urgency the Sudanese ambassador to discuss this matter further," Prime Minister Gordon Brown's official spokesman said.

In Washington, U.S. State Department spokesman Sean McCormack said: "We are following the situation of the British teacher closely and with concern."

The matter will go before a court on Thursday and Gibbons, who is from Liverpool, is expected to appear.

A statement from the Sudanese embassy in London said the case came in response to parents' complaints.

"It is now a police case and the temptation to treat it as a media sensation should be resisted. We certainly do not wish to resort to 'trial by media'.

"British teachers are doing a great job in Sudan. We hope that Ms Gibbons' case will soon be resolved," it said.

Fellow teachers said they did not believe Gibbons had intended to insult Islam and had made an innocent mistake in choosing the name...

http://africa.reuters.com/wire/news/usnL28881224.html

-snip-

It seems to me that it takes a special kind of dedication, courage, strength, and adventure for a person from one culture to
re-locate to another culture and teach students there.

However, those who provide orientation for such cross-cultural efforts should be proactive in teaching the cultural dos and don'ts of a particular society. If this teacher had received such an orientation, it's likely that this incident would not have occurred.

Since "Mohammad" is such a ubiquitous Arabic male name, the teacher who gave that name to a teddy bear, may have thought that it wouldn't matter since it would be like giving a stuffed animal a very common Western name like "Bobby" or "Johnny."{The name "Teddy" isn't all that common but the bear was named after President Teddy [Theodore] Rooselvelt}. But on the other hand, I don't think most British would name a teddy bear "Jesus". I think that example is comparable for the woman naming the teddy bear "Mohammad".

Be that as it may, I sincerely hope that this teacher does not receive any punishment for naming a teddy bear the same name as the Islamic Prophet Mohammad.

Subject: RE: Songs for Sudanese Ministry of Justice
From: Azizi
Date: 29 Nov 07 - 04:36 PM

Correction-

"I think that example is comparable to the woman naming the teddy bear "Mohammad".

Subject: RE: Songs for Sudanese Ministry of Justice
From: GUEST,The Mole Catcher's Apprentice
Date: 29 Nov 07 - 05:17 PM

Anyway....she got 15 days (five of which come under time already served)and she'll be deported.

Subject: RE: Songs for Sudanese Ministry of Justice
From: Jean(eanjay)
Date: 29 Nov 07 - 05:20 PM

Azizi, one of my sons made that same comparison. I think it was actually one of the children in the class who had the name Mohammad and wanted it for the teddy. It is much less common for children to be named Jesus. Mohammad (or one of the spellings of that name) is actually one of the most popular names for boys in the UK so I imagine she wouldn't have realised that it would offend.

I do agree that anybody wishing to work and live in a different society should be educated and sensitive to the culture in that society. I understand that she has been sentenced to 15 days in prison and will then be deported - which seems quite harsh.

As far as songs for the justice ministry - I can't think of anything suitable to suggest at the moment!

Subject: RE: Songs for Sudanese Ministry of Justice
From: GUEST,The Mole Catcher's Apprentice
Date: 29 Nov 07 - 05:25 PM

Jesus pronounced Hay-zus is a fairly common male name in Latin-America

Subject: RE: Songs for Sudanese Ministry of Justice
From: Maryrrf
Date: 29 Nov 07 - 05:25 PM

I don't really think naming the Teddy bear Mohammed would be the equivalent of naming a Teddy bear 'Jesus. Mohammed is a very common first name, while Jesus isn't - at least in non-hispanic cultures. I don't like religious fanaticism in any form, and this case really annoys me. I'm glad at least she wasn't whipped, and hope she'll be treated decently while in jail.

Subject: RE: Songs for Sudanese Ministry of Justice
From: GUEST,albert
Date: 29 Nov 07 - 05:39 PM

I hope the teacher gets home very soon....no such fate for the Sudanese worker killed when those american jets roared out of the sky to bomb his medical supplies factory which left Sudan's only such company a smoking ruin.
Was that some International law or the law of the jungle? Thank you President Clinton!
Albert

Subject: RE: Songs for Sudanese Ministry of Justice
From: Peace
Date: 29 Nov 07 - 05:49 PM

This child is from Darfur in western Sudan. Ministry of Justice? There IS no justice in Sudan. Teddy bear named Mohammed? That's much more inportant than the kid, right? F#ck the Ministry of Justice.

Subject: RE: Songs for Sudanese Ministry of Justice
From: Rasener
Date: 29 Nov 07 - 05:55 PM

Maybe we should have a Muhammed Teddy Bear day in defiance of Sudan.

We could all take our teddies and label them Mohammed and then have a processiuon in every town in the UK in protest to Sudan.

Subject: RE: Songs for Sudanese Ministry of Justice
From: Rasener
Date: 29 Nov 07 - 06:01 PM

Well it was just a thought. :-)

Subject: RE: Songs for Sudanese Ministry of Justice
From: Azizi
Date: 29 Nov 07 - 06:19 PM

What Bruce said.

**

The situation in modern day Sudan shows how low a once great kingdom can fall.

Fwiw, here's an excerpt from an online article that provides information about ancient Sudan {also known as "Nubia", Kush, and "[ancient] Ethiopia"}

"Ancient Nubia (Sudan) (Map). Around 5,000 years ago, a rich and powerful nation called the kingdom of Kush (also referred to as ancient Nubia) was a center of culture and military might in Africa. Ancient Nubia had a wealth of natural resources such as gold, ivory, copper, frankincense and ebony but they also produced and traded a variety of goods such as pottery. The Nubians formed the foundation of the Proto-Dravidians, Proto-Elamites, Proto-Mande speakers and West Atlantic people...

Their bowmen warriors (Exhibit 1) were known and feared by those who saw them in battles. Ancient Nubia's lands are now part of modern Egypt and Sudan. Its geographic position meant that much of ancient Nubia's development is connected to that of ancient Egypt. In fact, Egypt ruled much of Nubia between 2000 B.C. and 1000 B.C., but when Egypt collapsed into civil war, Nubian kings ruled Egypt from around 800 B.C. to 700 B.C.

The Nubians are believed to be the first human race on earth, and most of their customs and traditions were adopted by the ancient Egyptians [Diodorus; History, Book III: 2).. To the Greeks, they were known as Ethiopians and Nubia as the land of Punts, i.e. the land of gods.

Nubians are the people of northern Sudan and southern Egypt. With a history and traditions which can be traced to the dawn of civilization, the Nubian first settled along the banks of the Nile from Aswan. Along this great river they developed one of the oldest and greatest civilizations in Africa. Until they lost their last kingdom (Christian Nubia) only five centuries back the Nubians remained as the main rivals to the other great African civilization of Egypt.

Nubia is the homeland of Africa's earliest black culture with a history which can be traced from 3800 B.C. onward through Nubian monuments and artifacts, as well as written records from Egypt and Rome. In antiquity, Nubia was a land of great natural wealth, of gold mines, ebony, ivory and incense which was always prized by her neighbors."

http://www.homestead.com/wysinger/nubians.html

Subject: RE: Songs for Sudanese Ministry of Justice
From: Azizi
Date: 29 Nov 07 - 07:00 PM

Since this thread is in the music section, here's a song that imo speaks to the greater issue in the Sudan:

WE ARE THE WORLD
{Michael Jackson and Lionel Ritchie}

There comes a time when we need a certain call
When the world must come together as one
There are people dying
Oh, and it's time to lend a hand to life
The greatest gift of all

We can't go on pretending day by day
That someone, somehow will soon make a change
We're all a part of God's great big family
And the truth - you know love is all we need

( CHORUS )
We are the world, we are the children
We are the ones who make a brighter day
so let's start giving
There's a choice we're making
We're saving our own lives
It's true we'll make a better day
Just you and me

Well, send'em you your heart
So they know that someone cares
And their lives will be stronger and free
As God has shown us
By turning stone to bread
And so we all must lend a helping hand

( REPEAT CHORUS )

When you're down and out
There seems no hope at all
But if you just believe
There's no way we can fall
Well, well, well, let's realize
That one change can only come
When we stand together as one

( REPEAT CHORUS AND FADE )

http://www.inthe80s.com/weworld.shtml

{This website includes information about this song, a list of the R&B and Pop singers who recorded the original version of this song, and the lyrics of this song with the designation as to which singer sung which lines]

Subject: RE: Songs for Sudanese Ministry of Justice
From: Azizi
Date: 29 Nov 07 - 07:03 PM

Here's the YouTube video of "We Are The World":

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=INwB0BWVDnM

Subject: RE: Songs for Sudanese Ministry of Justice
From: Azizi
Date: 29 Nov 07 - 07:16 PM

The "We Are The World" YouTube video has 212 text comments to date.

One of the comments is that "Aid helps, but so would kicking despotic criminals out of positions of govermnent".
-fodsaks


True dat.

But for those who are inclined to give aid, here's a link to an organization that will put your donation to good use:

http://www.doctorswithoutborders.org/news/sudan.cfm

Subject: RE: Songs for Sudanese Ministry of Justice
From: Azizi
Date: 29 Nov 07 - 07:55 PM

Here's another song that I think is appropriate:

WHAT THE WORLD NEEDS NOW IS LOVE
{Hal David and Burt Bacharach}

What the world needs now,
Is love, sweet love,
It's the only thing that there's just too little of.
What the world needs now,
Is love, sweet love,
No, not just for some but for everyone.

Lord, we don't need another mountain,
There are mountains and hillsides enough to climb,
There are oceans and rivers enough to cross,
Enough to last 'til the end of time.

What the world needs now,
Is love, sweet love,
It's the only thing that there's just too little of.
What the world needs now,
Is love, sweet love,
No, not just for some but for everyone.

Lord, we don't need another meadow,
There are cornfields and wheatfields enough to grow,
There are sunbeams and moonbeams enough to shine,
Oh listen Lord, if you want to know...oh...

What the world needs now,
Is love, sweet love,
It's the only thing that there's just too little of.
What the world needs now,
Is love, sweet love,
No, not just for some oh but just for every, every, everyone.

What the world needs now,
Is love, sweet love.
What the world needs now,
Is love, sweet love.
What the world needs now,
Is love, sweet love.

-snip-

Here's a YouTube video of this song as sung by the first artist who recorded it, Jackie DeShannon:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fpzDJFvmYwk&feature=related
"what the world needs now is love"-Jackie DeShannon

"What the World Needs Now Is Love" is a 1965 popular song with lyrics by Hal David and music composed by Burt Bacharach . It was first recorded by Jackie DeShannon and reached number 7 in the US charts May of that year".
-SeaBuccaneer

Subject: RE: Songs for Sudanese Ministry of Justice
From: Charley Noble
Date: 29 Nov 07 - 08:37 PM

Have fun with this topic while it lasts, gang, but Azizi is correct with her first post. We should at least pause, consider our own cultural blinders, before concluding that some other society is behaving "bizarrely" or "irrationally." That being said, I would say that the British teacher in this case was acting naively at a privilged private school and got stung. She is lucky that her punishment wasn't worse.

When I was in the Peace Corps in Ethiopia in the 1960's, one of my PC friends was explaining the concept of carbon-14 dating to his students. At one point he was indiscrete enough to suggest that the Emperor Hailie Salassie had less carbon-14 in his body than the tree outside the classroom. He was shipped home within 24 hours. There just was no reasonable way that he could explain that "example" to the director of the Ministry of Education.

We are "guests" in other countries. Wise up!

Cheerily,
Charley Noble

Subject: RE: Songs for Sudanese Ministry of Justice
From: Peace
Date: 29 Nov 07 - 09:50 PM

The cultural screw up aside, that country's government allows genocide.

Subject: RE: Songs for Sudanese Ministry of Justice
From: Charley Noble
Date: 29 Nov 07 - 09:56 PM

Peace-

Sorry. Let's nuke 'em!

Guess I'm feeling grumpy this evening.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: Songs for Sudanese Ministry of Justice
From: Peace
Date: 29 Nov 07 - 10:11 PM

I'm feelin' happy. So who's feeling doc and sleepy and . . . .

Subject: RE: Songs for Sudanese Ministry of Justice
From: M.Ted
Date: 29 Nov 07 - 10:57 PM

It's not about the bear. It's not about Mohammed. It is about the mounting criticism that the Sudanese government is getting for creating a "New Rwanda" in Darfur. It is an attempt to distract world attention by showing that we have contempt for aspects of their culture.

And they are right--I have contempt for butchery that pretends to holiness. Am I being insensitive?

Subject: RE: Songs for Sudanese Ministry of Justice
From: Goose Gander
Date: 29 Nov 07 - 11:30 PM

It is funny . . . people who feel passionately about massacres committed 500 years ago are blase about mass murder taking place right now.

It does, however, make it easier to understand contemporary indifference about the murder of the Jews during WWII.

Subject: RE: Songs for Sudanese Ministry of Justice
From: M.Ted
Date: 30 Nov 07 - 12:26 AM

Another funny thing, in a cosmic sense, anyway, is that there are many people who are outspoken vegetarians and outspoken opponents of abortion, but there are damn few who will speak up against genocide.

Subject: RE: Songs for Sudanese Ministry of Justice
From: Rasener
Date: 30 Nov 07 - 02:16 AM

Good job these people aren't in Sudan at the moment.

How many days for this?

Subject: RE: Songs for Sudanese Ministry of Justice
From: GUEST
Date: 30 Nov 07 - 02:44 AM

"So. let's see Jim, when did the British last arrest anyone for letting someone else call their teddy-bear "Mohammed" - or any other name?"
Never, in my experience Richard.
But the British authorities have been responsible for returning refugees back into the hands of murderous regimes and allowing them to die in prisons and torture chambers, or simply of hunger and neglect. Along with the US, our government has supported many of those regimes politically and financially and the British and US public have by and large stayed silent and indifferent.
Doesn't it not strike you as odd that Saudi Arabia, one of the great abusers of human rights, is counted among our greatest allies.
Such abuses (now where did I read about the rape victim who has been sentenced to 200 lashes?), have been going on unchecked (and quite openly) for a long time without the UK or the US Governments batting an eyelid - how about a song about that (or would that affect our oil supply)?
Jim Carroll
PS As an Irish resident, I can see the same double standards operating here, with the added irony that at present the government here is pulling out all the stops to get the US to issue illegal Irish residents with work permits.

Subject: RE: Songs for Sudanese Ministry of Justice
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 30 Nov 07 - 03:21 AM

" Oh lets go to the stoning " Jehovah, there I've fecking said it, anyone want to stone me to death ? it really is like Monty Python.

Thank god I'm an atheist.

eric

Subject: RE: Songs for Sudanese Ministry of Justice
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 30 Nov 07 - 03:30 AM

Double standards, Jim, on your part.

Show me a government anywhere that does not deport refugees.

Show me a government anywhere that chooses its allies on conscience rather than political advantage.

Show me a time Saudi Arabia or any other Arab nation arrested a Briton (even the one alleged to have been implicit in murderous bombings to ontrol an illegal alcohol trade) and I'll show you British Government intercession.

The rape victim sentenced to receive lashes was a national of the country concerned (and yes I think it was Saudi Arabia, and yes the sentence is revolting) and it would have been interference in internal affairs of another country for Britian to intercede.

This case is about a British citizen, criminally sentenced because someone else called a teddy bear by one of the most common names for a person in the host country. There is no basis for UK-bashing in that.

Subject: RE: Songs for Sudanese Ministry of Justice
From: GUEST
Date: 30 Nov 07 - 03:55 AM

Why is intervening in the case of the rape victim interference in the internal affairs of another country, yet the Sudanese case not - the teacher in question was a resident of Sudan and therefore subject to their laws (whatever we might think of them).
Since the end of WW1 the US has bombed, invaded or otherwise directly interfered in the internal affairs of over 50 countries (not to mention   the clandestine activities) all with British support. Is this not interfering in the internal affairs of other countries (or doesn't Viet Nam, Grenada, Chile, Korea, The Gulf, Iraq, The Philippines - et al, count).
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: Songs for Sudanese Ministry of Justice
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 30 Nov 07 - 04:26 AM

Because the rape victim was Saudi.

Subject: RE: Songs for Sudanese Ministry of Justice
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 30 Nov 07 - 04:28 AM

Before we revisit the history of colonialism, isn't Jim's basic point fair enough?

The British press are by and large evil and distort most things, but I guess they are much better than, for one, the Sudanese press. I followed the cover of the Daily Express one summer, it had 14 continuous days of anti asylum seeker front page headlines. Asylum seekers are seeker asylum from murder and torture, yes I know some are not.

The final front page that summed up the Express was "Asylum Seekers ate my Donkey".

Just hope that none of us ever becomes part of an article in the British Press, they almost always get facts wrong and if you are involved in anything contentious they will probably misrepresent your point of view, not care and never put things right.

Subject: RE: Songs for Sudanese Ministry of Justice
From: ard mhacha
Date: 30 Nov 07 - 05:11 AM

I think the Sudanese fanatics are a disgrace to punish the teacher, the lady should have had the same chance as asylum seekers in Europe, most of whom are still awaiting justice, after spending up to a year and more in prison.

Subject: RE: Songs for Sudanese Ministry of Justice
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 30 Nov 07 - 05:36 AM

We know how much you like the British, dear ard, but the teacher was legally in the country, not illegally.

Subject: RE: Songs for Sudanese Ministry of Justice
From: The PA
Date: 30 Nov 07 - 05:57 AM

'Schools Out!' certainly is for one teacher.

Villian, I'm with you there. I've already re-named my teddy! I've actually named him after my brother in law, and he doesn't mind a bit. (My brother in law, not the teddy).

Subject: RE: Songs for Sudanese Ministry of Justice
From: theleveller
Date: 30 Nov 07 - 07:03 AM

Jim Carroll, with you all the way on this one.

Shows that the world would be a far, far better place without organised religion - of any sort. Fundamentalism stinks, whether it's in Sudan, Saudi, The States or Britain.

Subject: RE: Songs for Sudanese Ministry of Justice
From: GUEST,PMB
Date: 30 Nov 07 - 07:12 AM

Lots of people call teddy bears Jesus. It's the cross- eyed one.

Subject: RE: Songs for Sudanese Ministry of Justice
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 30 Nov 07 - 07:16 AM

Just a Teddy with a wrong name

Subject: RE: Songs for Sudanese Ministry of Justice
From: Rasener
Date: 30 Nov 07 - 08:11 AM

Jim Carroll & the leveller - Iam with you also.

When somebody says they are doing something in the name of ?????, then i become seriously worried.

Isn't it funny that most wars seem to be "with ??? on my side"

Religion has a lot to answer for.

Subject: RE: Songs for Sudanese Ministry of Justice
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 30 Nov 07 - 08:20 AM

Most organised religions can be a pain - but Jim seems to think that this teacher should be left to be flogged and rot in a Sudanese jail because she is English and the English authorities are nasty to asylum seekers.

No-one should be with him on that.

Subject: RE: Songs for Sudanese Ministry of Justice
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 30 Nov 07 - 08:45 AM

According to Sky News just now, there's a demonstration going on in Khartoum, with 'thousands with sticks and knives' demanding that she be shot.

Bloody good job she wasn't done for something serious, like riding her bike at night without lights - they'd have stoned her to death by now.

There's something seriously wrong with a religion that's prepared to imprison someone for calling a teddy Mahomed or, even worse, put a woman to death for the 'crime' of having been raped.

Subject: RE: Songs for Sudanese Ministry of Justice
From: theleveller
Date: 30 Nov 07 - 08:45 AM

I'll leave Jim to answer that for himself but, peronally, that's not the impression I got at all. He is exposing the gross hypocrisy of the British and, especially, the US who, let's not forget, transport 'suspects' to other countries so that they can have them tortured on their behalf and still get on their knees on a Sunday and tell their perverted idea of a god how virtuous and blameles they are. Bastards!

So, Richard, do you think that the inmates of Guantanemo Bay should be left to rot?

Subject: RE: Songs for Sudanese Ministry of Justice
From: Rasener
Date: 30 Nov 07 - 08:46 AM

I agree with what you say Richard. My support is about religion.

Going into another country to work legally, is totally different to trying to get into a country illegally.

Subject: RE: Songs for Sudanese Ministry of Justice
From: GUEST
Date: 30 Nov 07 - 08:55 AM

Thank you leveller; save me the effort of answering.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: Songs for Sudanese Ministry of Justice
From: M.Ted
Date: 30 Nov 07 - 09:04 AM

Mao Tse Tong and Joseph Stalin were responsible for more state sponsored murders than any other leaders in history, and they were atheists--so don't be so smug. And genocide is always done to achieve political goals, not relgious ones. Religion is brought into it as a subterfuge.

Subject: RE: Songs for Sudanese Ministry of Justice
From: theleveller
Date: 30 Nov 07 - 09:23 AM

Tell that to the Spanish Inquisition. (Sorry!)

Subject: RE: Songs for Sudanese Ministry of Justice
From: GUEST,The Mole Catcher's Apprentice
Date: 30 Nov 07 - 11:17 AM

It seems to me that this string has now degenerated into a forum for the usual suspects (you know who you are) to vent their own particualr brand(s) of politics.

The teacher in question has been sentenced to 15 days jail time (5 of which have been considered time served, so she has to do 10 days inside)she will then be deported. End of story.

Subject: RE: Songs for Sudanese Ministry of Justice
From: Peace
Date: 30 Nov 07 - 11:18 AM

The end of the story will be when the teacher is back in Britain, imo.

Subject: RE: Songs for Sudanese Ministry of Justice
From: Amos
Date: 30 Nov 07 - 11:26 AM

Note that in typical mob-think form, a number of people are calling for her execution for insulting Mohammedan beliefs. Yet no-one seems to have noticed that the names for the bear were offered by Muslim children, who are quite accustomed to seeing objects of affection such as fathers and uncles and brothers be labeled "Mohammed". So I would say the case against her has no bearing, so to speak, and the travesty of justice in the offing would be unbearable. I hope she comes back to England soon.

A

Subject: RE: Songs for Sudanese Ministry of Justice
From: Goose Gander
Date: 30 Nov 07 - 11:44 AM

There's a riot going on in Khartoum.

But slandering all of "organized religion" (disorganized religion is OK? that would be pentacostalists, i presume) is the sort of extravagant posturing that annoys me so much in athiests. Faith has been the organizing principle for human society throughout most of human history. For this reason, you can say that EVERYTHING came out of religion - culturally speaking. Sure, there's a lot of baggage we'd be better off without, but twentieth-century attempts to organize societies around race or ideology haven't exactly been a picnic in the park, either.

Subject: RE: Songs for Sudanese Ministry of Justice
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 30 Nov 07 - 12:18 PM

"But slandering all of "organized religion" (disorganized religion is OK? that would be pentacostalists, i presume) is the sort of extravagant posturing that annoys me so much in athiests."

Is that all atheists or just some?

"Faith has been the organizing principle for human society throughout most of human history."

Is that the only organising principle or one of a number?

"For this reason, you can say that EVERYTHING came out of religion - culturally speaking."

You can say what you like, religions do that, but it doesn't really add anything to human understanding.

"attempts to organize societies around race or ideology haven't exactly been a picnic in the park, either."

So that's how things are organised.

Thanks

Subject: RE: Songs for Sudanese Ministry of Justice
From: Goose Gander
Date: 30 Nov 07 - 12:42 PM

Les -

"Is that all atheists or just some?"

Mainly the Christopher Hitchens variety.

"Is that the only organising principle or one of a number?"

The primary one, I believe.

"You can say what you like, religions do that, but it doesn't really add anything to human understanding."

Huh?

"So that's how things are organised."

Precisely, like picnics in parks. Complete with gulags, forced marches, ethnic cleansing, total war, and other fun activities.

Subject: RE: Songs for Sudanese Ministry of Justice
From: melodeonboy
Date: 30 Nov 07 - 01:00 PM

'ere, I thought I asked for a list of songs!

Subject: RE: Songs for Sudanese Ministry of Justice
From: Goose Gander
Date: 30 Nov 07 - 01:06 PM

And I gave you one!

RIOT IN CELL BLOCK NINE
The Blues Brothers / Riot In Cell Block Number Nine

It was December the sixth 1983
I was doin' time for armed robbery
At four in the morning, I was sitting in my cell
I heard a whistle blow, and I heard somebody yell

There's a riot going on
There's a riot going on
There's a riot going on
Up in cell block number nine

Our warden said Come out with your hands up in the air
If you don't stop this riot you're all gonna get the chair
And Scarface Jones said It's too late to quit
Pass the dynamite, don't you give me any shit

There's a riot going on
There's a riot going on
There's a riot going on
Up in cell block number nine

On the 47th hour the nerve gas got our men
We're all back in our cells but every now and then

There's a riot going on
There's a riot going on
There's a riot going on

Up in cellblock number nine
Up in cellblock number nine
Up in cellblock number nine

Subject: RE: Songs for Sudanese Ministry of Justice
From: melodeonboy
Date: 30 Nov 07 - 01:10 PM

You did indeed, Michael. Coincidentally, one that's on my band's playlist!

Subject: RE: Songs for Sudanese Ministry of Justice
From: M.Ted
Date: 30 Nov 07 - 01:41 PM

As per the Inquisition, it was very much politically driven, and, in the same way, today, in Khartoum, certain of the Imans are exploiting the religious hold that they have, for political objectives--waving the bloody shirt, as it were.

The point has been made that people like you, leveller, are much more interested in expressing indignation about what happened 500 years ago, than in dealing with anything that is happening today.

Darfur is the new genocide. The ugly bottom line is that, unless we can find a way to stop it, there will be more genocides. The Twentieth Century set the precedent--when two groups compete for land and resources, the group with the upper hand can prevail by simply exterminating the other--Hitler famously said, "Who remembers the Armenians?"

Now the list has been expanded--who can name the dead?

Subject: RE: Songs for Sudanese Ministry of Justice
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 30 Nov 07 - 01:44 PM

The people unlawfully detained by the USA in its unlawfully occupied territory at Guantanamo bay are in a rather different category.

The governments of the territories of which those people are citizens should make and do make representations to the USA - and indeed should send a gunboat if they had one big enough!

Your point exactly?

Amos - you have expressed better than I one of the points I was trying to make.

Michael Morris - you seem to be a theist. I am not an athiest. I am vaguely theist. But it is so rare to see any organised religion live up to the best standards to which it might aspire that you must surely concede?

Subject: RE: Songs for Sudanese Ministry of Justice
From: GUEST,The Mole Catcher's Apprentice
Date: 30 Nov 07 - 01:45 PM

*BBC announcer* "and now, here is a brief summary of the news"

"'ere, I thought I asked for a list of songs! "

"It seems to me that this string has now degenerated into a forum for the usual suspects (you know who you are) to vent their own particular brand(s) of politics."

"that was the news, the shipping forecast in a moment"

Subject: RE: Songs for Sudanese Ministry of Justice
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 30 Nov 07 - 01:47 PM

"Is that all atheists or just some?"

Mainly the Christopher Hitchens variety.

The thing about atheism is that it isn't a collection of ideas or a way of organising anything. It is simply a personal judgment that I don't believe their is a god who knows things and does things.

"Is that the only organising principle or one of a number?"

The primary one, I believe.

How about the ownership of land and the organisation of food production?

How about the development of Law.

How about the rules of inhertance

"You can say what you like, religions do that, but it doesn't really add anything to human understanding."

Huh?

Yes, fair comment
EVERYTHING came out of religion
I don't think it's true enough to be much help.

"So that's how things are organised."

Precisely, like picnics in parks. Complete with gulags, forced marches, ethnic cleansing, total war, and other fun activities.

Are Race and ideology the only way things are organised? I suppose I think like many people that democracy is the worst system except for all the rest.

The central point for me is not any particular religion. We could probably make a list of religions that at one time or another have been good for people. The real problem is to stand back and look at lots and lots of them, even sects within the same believe system. Their are all sorts of contradictory views of history and ways of treating each other. How does that make any sense?

Just try exploring the concept of the Christian Holy Trinity.

Some people do bad things when they are unaccountable. All totalitarian systems have this tendency - some are religious and some are not. Thats why poor old democracy remains the only bet.

Sorry I didn't mean to be so rude and unpleasant

Cheers

Subject: RE: Songs for Sudanese Ministry of Justice
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 30 Nov 07 - 01:49 PM

Speaking of rude and unpleasant (reminds me of a folk song, that) and the request for a list of songs

"My Friend the witchdoctor"

(Gets coat...)

Subject: RE: Songs for Sudanese Ministry of Justice
From: GUEST,highlandman
Date: 30 Nov 07 - 01:57 PM

"Mohammed is a very common first name, while Jesus isn't - at least in non-hispanic cultures."
Just to clarify something... actually 'Jesus' in a variant form is one of the most popular male names in English-speaking countries. Only we spell it 'Joshua.' It's just a different transliteration.
-Glenn

Subject: RE: Songs for Sudanese Ministry of Justice
From: Peace
Date: 30 Nov 07 - 02:04 PM

Yeshua.

Subject: RE: Songs for Sudanese Ministry of Justice
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 30 Nov 07 - 02:18 PM

WITCH DOCTOR
(Ross Bagdaserian Jr.)

David Seville - 1958

Also recorded by:
AC Rock; Joanie Bartels; Cartoons DK; The Chipmunks;
Devo; Hit Crew; Don Lang; Sha Na Na; Tombstones.


I told the witch doctor
I was in love with you
I told the witch doctor
I was in love with you
And then the witch doctor
He told me what to do

He said that

Ooo eee,ooo ah ah ting tang
Walla walla, bing bang
Ooo eee ooo ah ah ting tang
Walla walla bing bang...
Ooo eee ,ooo ah ah ting tang
Walla walla ,bing bang
Ooo eee ooo ah ah ting tang
Walla walla bing bang

I told the witch doctor
You didn't love me true
I told the witch doctor
You didn't love me nice
And then the witch doctor
He game me this advice

He said that

Ooo eee,ooo ah ah ting tang
Walla walla, bing bang
Ooo eee ooo ah ah ting tang
Walla walla bing bang...
Ooo eee ,ooo ah ah ting tang
Walla walla ,bing bang
Ooo eee ooo ah ah ting tang
Walla walla bing bang

You've been keeping love from me
Just like you were a miser
And i'll admit i wasn't very smart
So i went out and found myself
A guy that's so much wiser
And he taught me the way to win your heart

My friend the witch doctor
He taught me what to say
My friend the witch doctor
He taught me what to do
I know that you'll be mine
When i say this to you

Ooo eee,ooo ah ah ting tang
Walla walla, bing bang
Ooo eee ooo ah ah ting tang
Walla walla bing bang...
Ooo eee ,ooo ah ah ting tang
Walla walla ,bing bang
Ooo eee ooo ah ah ting tang
Walla walla bing bang

You've been keeping love from me
Just like you were a miser
And i'll admit i wasn't very smart
So i went out and found myself
A guy that's so much wiser
And he taught me the way to win your heart

My friend the witch doctor
He taught me what to say
My friend the witch doctor
He taught me what to do
I know that you'll be mine
When i say this to you

Ooo eee,ooo ah ah ting tang
Walla walla, bing bang
Ooo eee ooo ah ah ting tang
Walla walla bing bang...
Ooo eee ,ooo ah ah ting tang
Walla walla ,bing bang
Ooo eee ooo ah ah ting tang
Walla walla bing bang

It was recorded in the UK by Don Lang & his Frantic Five, last heard of playing in the Savages backing Screaming Lord Sutch!

Subject: RE: Songs for Sudanese Ministry of Justice
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 30 Nov 07 - 05:20 PM

Been watching the news? It says it all really.

Subject: RE: Songs for Sudanese Ministry of Justice
From: Charley Noble
Date: 30 Nov 07 - 05:42 PM

Yes, it's being reported that their are mass protests in Khartoum about the "leniency" of the sentence. Evidently something harsher would be preferred. It's not surprising that given the opportunity that those who would like to embarrass the British and by extension other Western countries are making use of this incident.

Hopefully cooler heads will prevail and the new British delegation of Moslem members of Parliment will be able to secure a release of the teacher in question, and spirit her away before a mob succeeds in exercising corporal punishment.

I wish them well.

I am tempted to wish that a goodly portion of the posters on this thread were in Khartoum as well. But that would be wrong!

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: Songs for Sudanese Ministry of Justice
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 30 Nov 07 - 06:27 PM

Judge not, lest ye be judged"

Subject: RE: Songs for Sudanese Ministry of Justice
From: Charley Noble
Date: 02 Dec 07 - 08:54 PM

refreshed for more general bashing.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: Songs for Sudanese Ministry of Justice
From: theleveller
Date: 03 Dec 07 - 09:07 AM

Alan Parson's Project: There But For The Grace Of God

What kind of madness rule the world today
What earthly reason holding sway
There is no heaven at all
For some may weep
And some may sleep
While some may rise
And some may fall

No one is an island
No one born alone
No man can turn the tide of fortune on his own
Though some may dare to try

Say there but for the grace of god go you my friend
Say there but for the grace of god go i
Go i

And so we live in lives of fantasy
And dream of dreams that hold the key
And we follow like sheep
We thread the path
That leads to thee
We seek the soul that is not ours to keep

No one is an island
No one born alone
No man can turn the tide of fortune on his own
Though some may dare to try

Say there but for the grace of god go you my friend
Say there but for the grace of god go i
Go i

Subject: RE: Songs for Sudanese Ministry of Justice
From: GUEST
Date: 03 Dec 07 - 09:34 AM

Nice!

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: Songs for Sudanese Ministry of Justice
From: Charley Noble
Date: 03 Dec 07 - 08:39 PM

Geez, doesn't anyone above care? The British teacher has been pardoned and is on her way back home. I would think that act would merit a word or two, if not a verse.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: Songs for Sudanese Ministry of Justice
From: GUEST,Jim Carroll
Date: 04 Dec 07 - 03:10 AM

Things have changed Charlie - there was a time when the incident would have merited at least one gunboat.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: Songs for Sudanese Ministry of Justice
From: theleveller
Date: 04 Dec 07 - 03:16 AM

I expect that she'll now be given huge amounts of money from a redtop rag for her story. Watch this space.

Subject: RE: Songs for Sudanese Ministry of Justice
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 04 Dec 07 - 03:16 AM

Hmm, which is more dangerous, one gunboat or what they did send? I did however wonder about the decision to send a male and a female peer, in view of the perceived commonly found Islamic views on women, but it seems to have worked.

It was however nice to see the youngish British Muslim (was he from Birmingham) on the news talking sense about moderation and rationality.

Subject: RE: Songs for Sudanese Ministry of Justice
From: Charley Noble
Date: 04 Dec 07 - 09:21 AM

I agree that the British strategy was effective this time around, much more effective than in say 1885 (Wikipedia):

"The Battle of Khartoum or Siege of Khartoum lasted from March 12, 1884 to January 26, 1885. It was fought in and around Khartoum between Egyptian forces led by British General Charles George Gordon and a Mahdist Sudanese army led by the Mahdi Muhammad Ahmad. Khartoum was besieged by the Mahdists and defended by a garrison of 7,000 Egyptian and loyal Sudanese troops. After a ten-month siege the Mahdists finally broke into the city and the entire garrison was killed."

By George, it works for me!

Cheerily,
Charley Noble

Subject: RE: Songs for Sudanese Ministry of Justice
From: GUEST
Date: 04 Dec 07 - 11:08 AM

"Hmm, which is more dangerous, one gunboat or what they did send?"

Two members of the House of Lords..... *LOL*

Subject: RE: Songs for Sudanese Ministry of Justice
From: melodeonboy
Date: 19 Dec 07 - 03:55 AM

Mohammed The Teddy Bear

(To the tune of Teddy Bears' Picnic)

If you go down to Sudan today, you're in for a big surprise
If you go down to Sudan today, you'd better go in disguise
For every bear that ever there was
Is shitting his pants for certain because
They're out to get a teddy bear called Mohammed

If you're a teddy bear in Sudan, you'd better watch what you do
If you're a teddy bear in Sudan, you know that they're after you
So change your name to Edward Bear
Or Jim or Frank or Alistair
Whatever you do don't call yourself Mohammed

Life was good for teddy bears
Before the men with beards began to rant and shout
If they catch you unawares
They'll tear your fur right off and pull your stuffing out

If you've got a prophet's name
They'll pull your eyes right out and toss you in the air
So just wait till they're at prayers
Then creep off down the stairs and be happy little teddy bears


Additional verse if required:

If you go down to Sudan today, you'd better not go alone
It's lovely down in Sudan today but safer to stay at home
For tempers there are getting hot
They're trying to get the teacher shot
Because they called a teddy bear Mohammed

Subject: RE: Songs for Sudanese Ministry of Justice
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 19 Dec 07 - 02:23 PM

Excellent!

Subject: RE: Songs for Sudanese Ministry of Justice
From: Peace
Date: 20 Dec 07 - 10:16 AM

Second that.

Subject: RE: Songs for Sudanese Ministry of Justice
From: GUEST,TJ in San Diego
Date: 20 Dec 07 - 01:51 PM

Thank heaven, the good lady is safe once again. In honor of her return, I would suggest the Minister be saluted with what we Yanks call the "Bronx Cheer," followed by a revised version of "Anne Boleyn," to wit: "With HIS Head Tucked Underneath HIS arm..."