dante and dylan

Subject: dante and dylan
From: GUEST,mr. chuckleface
Date: 30 Dec 07 - 04:12 PM

why does everyone think dylan is referring to dante in "tangled up in blue?" He sings "an Italien poet from the fifteenth century" but dante is from the thirteenth. Not Petrarch either. on the earlier recorded version (nyc?) he does sing - clearly - "thirteenth century" so the dante association is obvious. Obscured on the released version.
Perhaps it just vocally scanned better, or there wasn't wanted such a tight mapping. anyways everyone gets this wrong, even Bono in a recent rollingstone interview. Christ, read the lyrics and do your homework. It is a suggestion, not a tight correspondance.

Subject: RE: dante and dylan
From: GUEST,albert
Date: 30 Dec 07 - 04:16 PM

i think its au daunte!
albert

Subject: RE: dante and dylan
From: bobad
Date: 30 Dec 07 - 04:42 PM

At his web site http://www.bobdylan.com/songs/tangled.html it says thirteenth century.

Subject: RE: dante and dylan
From: catspaw49
Date: 30 Dec 07 - 05:39 PM

Bobad has it already. No matter what lyric site, the line is "thirteenth century." Misheard there Chuckles.

Spaw

Subject: RE: dante and dylan
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 30 Dec 07 - 06:36 PM

I've always assumed the book in question is Petrarch's Sonnets, for some reason. Dante's La Vita Nuova would be just as likely - and that'd be right for the thirteenth century, which Petrarch wouldn't be (born 1304).

Still there's no reason to assume that Dylan or the character in the song, would necessarily be too worried about being accurate about a dates like that. Doesn't really make much difference either way.

Subject: RE: dante and dylan
From: GUEST,Volgadon
Date: 30 Dec 07 - 11:23 PM

Luigi Pulci, author of the Morgante, Mattee Maria Boiardo wrote Orlando Innamorato, and Francesco Bello was no slacker either. Jacopo Sanozzaro and his pastoral poems, even Lorenzo de Medici wrote his share. No lack of 15th century Italian poets. And yes, I'm certain Dylan wasn't singing about any of them, but about Dante.

Subject: RE: dante and dylan
From: GUEST,chuckleface
Date: 15 Jan 08 - 04:40 PM

I just listened to this lyric a number of times and it still sounds more like "fifteenth" then "thirteenth." I'd caution you against thinking that lyric sites are always correct, even when by an artist. That's like saying the guitar tab always matches the music. Often it doesn't. My guess is you are not truly listening and are relying on secondhand information. Listen carefully...the word in question opens with an "f" sound, not a "th"... also I don't hear an "ir" in there. Seriously. I think Pete Hamill started all of this with his original BOTT album notes where he references Dante and everyone just ran with it. Anyways - 'nuff said, go my way or accept your own received wisdom.

chuckleface

Subject: RE: dante and dylan
From: M.Ted
Date: 15 Jan 08 - 04:53 PM

When you said "Dylan", I thought your meant Dylan Thomas--

Subject: RE: dante and dylan
From: Little Hawk
Date: 15 Jan 08 - 05:12 PM

Just go find Bob and ask him...see what happens.

Subject: RE: dante and dylan
From: GUEST,Gerry
Date: 15 Jan 08 - 06:51 PM

Rather than relying on the folk process to produce multiple versions of his songs, Dylan does it himself. If you can access a post by David Todd to the Usenet newsgroup rec.music.dylan with the Subject header Tangled transcriptions and the date 16 Oct 1993, you'll find about ten different versions Dylan sang in 1978. On 23 Nov 78, in Norman, Oklahoma, he sang,

Then she opened up a book of poems
And she started quotin' it to me
It was either written by Charles Baudelaire
Or some Italian poem from the 13th century

On 13 Dec 78, in Jacksonville, Florida, it was

Then she opened up the Bible
And she started quotin' it to me
Jeramiah, chapters 10 & 20,
Verses 21 & 33

I wouldn't bother looking up the reference, as the chapter & verse numbers changed from one performance to the next. Then, in Rotterdam, 14 June 84, he left out the whole stanza.

Subject: RE: dante and dylan
From: Little Hawk
Date: 15 Jan 08 - 07:07 PM

Yeah, that's true. He changes the words and the arrangements a great deal in his live performances, and in that way he finds artistic freedom, I think, and it keeps the songs alive and moving on.

I never realized you could do that with songs until Dylan's performances made me aware that it was an option that is always available.

Subject: RE: dante and dylan
From: bobad
Date: 15 Jan 08 - 07:35 PM

He likes to keep people on their toes, staying one step ahead of their expectations.