BS: To Catch a Predator

Subject: BS: To Catch a Predator
From: 282RA
Date: 31 Dec 07 - 01:11 AM

I've been watching the online clips and I must admit that I find it quite entertaining. It's disturbing of course. I mean, there seems to be no shortage of men trying to get with teen or pubescent girls for sex. These clips often show two or three men arriving at the same time. Within minutes of posting a fake teenybopper profile in some forum, they get hit after hit after hit from dirty old men. And these men aren't generally old. In fact, there is no real pattern--they come from all backgrounds, social classes, occupations, races, ethnicities, white collar, student, teacher, religious, non-religious, blue collar, gay, straight, tall, short, skinny, fat, muscular, sound, disabled, military, civilian, police officer, etc.

The only pattern is that they are all, without exception, male. Female predators tend to be teachers who seduce and sleep with pubescent or teen males (I know of one case of a 30-year-old woman sleeping with an 8-year-old boy but she wasn't a teacher to my knowledge). But online predators seem to always be men.

It's pretty good reality TV because the other shows are more scripted than spontaneous but with TCAP you get real reactions and they are priceless, I have to admit.

That moment when Chris Hansen appears to them is always humorous to me. They always try to act non-chalant or they just turn and beat it. I love it when they cry while being arrested outside. Especially if they're bawling so loud the cop has to tell them to shut up. All that online talk to someone they think is 13 about how they're gonna fuck them and lick them and grope them and do this and that and they sound so lecherous and arrogant and then you see them in handcuffs weeping and pleading. Losers.

I have a few favorites--like the guy who strips naked and Chris Hansen comes out and asks him what he thinks he's doing. "I'm just here to tell this person that they are engaging in very risky behavior and that it's very dangerous." Hansen says, "You're sitting here naked after driving three hours and it's 2 in the morning and you've brought condoms and booze but it was all to tell this person what a dangerous thing they are doing, is that right?" "Yeah, I swear!" the guys says. "So you're here because you're concerned about this person and just want to help so badly that you drove three hours and came over at 2 a.m., is that it?" This was before they started working with cops and they let the guy go because they themselves had no legal authority to arrest him or hold him. Then the next day, someone chats up a decoy for sex and they arrange to meet someplace and so Chris Hansen goes there at the appointed time and there's that SAME GUY!!! He was back at it again the very next day after being caught!!

I like how so many try to act like they weren't doing anything. "How's it going?" Hansen will ask. "Oh, pretty good!" they say all friendly and spry. One guy kept up this "I wasn't doing anything wrong" facade while Hansen asks him if he knows how old the girl is that he's come to have sex with. "I think she said 13 or 14." "Thirteen," says Hansen, "and how old are you?" "Thirty-seven," says the guy. "And do you think that it's appropriate for a 37-year-old man to solicit sex from a 13-year-old girl while her parents are out?" "I'm just here to hang out, that's all," says the guy. "Hang out?" "Yeah, please, I wasn't..." and then he just bursts into tears. He was acting all innocent and then suddenly he's crying. Not that I blame him--the punk needs to cry. He knew he was fucked.

What gets me also are that so many of them actually chat online to the decoy about being afraid that they might end up on Dateline. But they show up anyway. I also like the reaction of "Ohhh!! I KNEW this was a set-up!!" when they see Hansen. They knew it was a set-up but they came anyway. Right. They figured the odds were in their favor and went for it and got busted. They didn't know it was a setup but they should have.

Just about all of them swear that they weren't going to do anything or that they were having second thoughts and had decided they weren't going to do anything. Only one guy I ever saw, a bible student, admitted that he was there to have sex with a 14-year-old. "That was the intent," he told a cop.

I saw a successful doctor having to call his wife and tell her to bring $30,000 in cash down the police station. "I'll explain when you get here," he said. How do you tell your wife that you were arrested trying to boff an underage girl or boy? Especially when she reads the chat log and there's no doubt that you knew exactly what you were doing. "I'm so sorry!" seems pretty lame. Of course, you're sorry--you got caught.

A lot of these guys have kids of their own--often older than the girl or boy he was trying to get sex from. Hansen will always ask them how they would feel if they learned a man was coming over to have sex with one of his kids while he was at work or something. "I'd be pissed," they always say. "So why are you doing it?" And they always say, "Stupidity," or "Bad judgment."

I don't want to think of what it would be like to get caught doing that. You're going to be on TV, the whole country is going to see you including family, friends and coworkers. How can you ever look your wife or kids in the eye again? What a horrible burden for a teen kid to have to carry around: "My dad got busted trying to have sex with a 12-year-old girl he met online and sent her pics of his dick and then went down to meet her and got arrested and now he's in prison for 3 years." The shame of it--a total failure as a father and husband, a pervert, a sexual offender.

I have friends with kids that age. I couldn't imagine betraying that trust. One buddy has a 15-year-old daughter and he can't stand watching TCAP because it makes him really upset to think about how many men would do something like that with his daughter if they could talk her into it. It is pretty disturbing. Imagine being on that show and all your friends are saying, "Gee, I never guessed he would do something like that, he's been alone with my daughter a couple of times too." And your coworkers are saying, "I work with that guy! I always thought there was something weird about him!" There's also the shame of never being alone to be alone with minors for the rest of your life. Even your own children. All visits with your own kids must be supervised at all times. How shameful is that? All your neighbors know who you are now. Imagine what taunting your kids will have to endure because of you couldn't control yourself like a decent and responsible adult. That you think of yourself first and family second. You never think about what you've done to them until you get caught and it's a little late to suddenly have a conscience.

The problem is, once these guys show up for the meeting, they're busted. They don't have to go in. Just drive by and that shows intent and the cops will pull them over and bust them. In Florida, just the online conversation is enough. They don't even have to go down and they don't have to transmit porn through the email.

There's dramatic case of the Texas prosecutor that killed himself when his online activities were discovered. Brian Doyle, deputy press secretary of the Dept of Homeland Security and fourth highest in rank at the DHS's public affairs office, was busted for trying to sexually explicit chats with what he thought was a 14-year-old girl:

>>On April 4, 2006, Doyle was arrested at his Silver Spring, Maryland home on 23 charges related to the use of a computer to seduce a child and transmitting harmful materials to a minor. Polk County, Florida investigators allege that the incident began March 14, 2006; Doyle was contacted by an undercover detective posing as a 14-year-old girl in an AOL chat room, and after numerous conversations online the two allegedly began engaging in sexually explicit conversation -- this included the sending "hard core" pornographic movie clips by Doyle to an undercover detective over the internet. [3] Authorities say he sent pictures of himself, but that they were not sexually explicit. In one photo, Doyle's DHS security picture identification tag was clearly visible, according to Polk County Sheriff Grady Judd. Sheriff Judd has made national headlines for his aggressive tactics and sting operations involving online child solicitation. [4] Polk County prosecutors also allege he could have held similar conversations online with others, Judd said, because at some points during online chats he would address the detective by the wrong name.[1].

On September 19, 2006 Brian Doyle pleaded no contest to seven counts of using a computer to seduce a child, and 16 counts of transmitting harmful material to a minor. [5] On November 17, 2006, he was sentenced to five years in prison, ten years of probation, and he must register as a sex offender.<<

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brian_Doyle

I remember this story was featured in the online news for one day and then it mysteriously dropped from sight and was never mentioned again. Luckily, I remember reading about that remembered his name was Doyle. The article goes on to state that grief counselors had to make three visits to help Doyle's colleagues deal with his arrest.

Then, of course, there's Mark Foley. While Larry Craig was busted trying to solicit sex from an adult, I get the sneaking suspicion that teen boys probably wouldn't have been taboo for him.

I'm waiting for the TCAP when they bust somebody big and famous. I figure it's just a matter of time.

Subject: RE: BS: To Catch a Predator
From: Jim Lad
Date: 31 Dec 07 - 02:39 AM

Pretty tasteless.
Does your mum know you're playing with the computer?

Subject: RE: BS: To Catch a Predator
From: alanabit
Date: 31 Dec 07 - 03:06 AM

There is something of the Hellflire and damnation sermon about that original post. Kicking an easy target - child molestors - has a bit too much "justifiable anger" in it for my liking. It reminds me a bit of the way in which films manipulate you into hating the bad guys so much that they simply deserve any horribly violent fate, which they ultimately endure. Child molestors have become our society's orcs. They "deserve" to be annhilated - so we can feel OK about carrying out our revenge/violence/humiliation fantasies on them. In one of his novels, Tom Sharpe pointed out that the old Hellfire and damnation preachers, who preached against sins of the flesh, both gratified the women and excited the men.
Had there been a serious post here on what society might do about the abuse of children, I think there would have been a good Mudcat discussion on the subject. As it is, the sheer amount of gratification that 282RA is taking in the humiliation of offenders strikes me as being pretty close to the "pleasure" that was given to the audience at public hangings.

Subject: RE: BS: To Catch a Predator
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 31 Dec 07 - 03:12 AM

But would it all stand up in court though? Sounds to me like entrapment... and all this visual gratification by the viewers is as sick as those who are 'participating', albeit unwillingly in the programme.

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: To Catch a Predator
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 31 Dec 07 - 03:18 AM

The strange thing is that they want to have sex with twelve year olds. I don't even like having converstaions with them much.

Why is society producing so many strange people?

Subject: RE: BS: To Catch a Predator
From: catspaw49
Date: 31 Dec 07 - 07:29 AM

.............uh..........yeah...................................So 282, why do some of us seem to get the feeling that you're way too interested in this crap?   Seems pretty weird frankly................I suggest you whip the bishop elsewhere and then go get some help. I think you need it.

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: To Catch a Predator
From: Jeri
Date: 31 Dec 07 - 09:37 AM

Has anyone who's commented seen the show?

I've managed to watch minutes of it because I don't enjoy the humiliation of anyone. Those men however, if their plans had turned out the way they expected, would most likely have had sex - consensual or not - with a minor. The show is probably stopping some other crimes, but possibly giving the potential child-molesters some insight into how not to get caught.

I don't know anything for sure except I don't like watching humiliating shit on TV.

Subject: RE: BS: To Catch a Predator
From: Donuel
Date: 31 Dec 07 - 09:47 AM

My "favorites" they don't show.

Like the several predators who have commited suicide as the result of the show. Or the brutal beatings that resulted from the show.

Society is producing people who feel powerless and ineffectual which result in such heinous crimes of domination on the even less powerful and effectual. The other reasons are simply base hormonal lust and lonlines resulting from poor self esteem and powerlessness.

Subject: RE: BS: To Catch a Predator
From: Amergin
Date: 31 Dec 07 - 10:58 AM

Oh my bloody god....such wonderful compassion to these sexual deviants you all are showing. Oh no they are humiliated....what about the shame and humiliation they would impose on the young girls and boys they set out to dominate? Or would it be their fault? They enticed them.

The only compassion these bastards deserve is from the barrel of a gun.

Subject: RE: BS: To Catch a Predator
From: GUEST,Slag
Date: 31 Dec 07 - 11:21 AM

To gloat over another's shame is inviting the same to befall you. Who watches this stuff? Excuse me, I feel like taking a shower now.

Subject: RE: BS: To Catch a Predator
From: Jeri
Date: 31 Dec 07 - 11:21 AM

I don't feel particularly compassionate. I simply don't enjoy watching humiliation. Catch them, prosecute them, but don't show it as a form of entertainment. It's sick.

Subject: RE: BS: To Catch a Predator
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 31 Dec 07 - 11:23 AM

This all abut some TV show I assume? Some people will watch just about anything...

Subject: RE: BS: To Catch a Predator
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 31 Dec 07 - 11:36 AM

Vigilantism is dangerous whoever the vigilantes are after.

Subject: RE: BS: To Catch a Predator
From: 282RA
Date: 31 Dec 07 - 11:46 AM

>>As it is, the sheer amount of gratification that 282RA is taking in the humiliation of offenders strikes me as being pretty close to the "pleasure" that was given to the audience at public hangings.<<

Yeah, there is a bit of that. And, no, I feel no sympathy for them at all. I do find it funny, I freely admit it.

>>So 282, why do some of us seem to get the feeling that you're way too interested in this crap?<<

Oh, come now. I gave this thread the title of the show and you chose to log in and read it and post in it. I made no pretense about what this thread was going to be about. Sounds like you might also be a bit too interested as well, does it not, my self-righteous little friend?

>>Seems pretty weird frankly................I suggest you whip the bishop elsewhere and then go get some help. I think you need it.<<

Oh, thank you for that sage advice. I'll certainly keep it in mind. Now if you're done showing everybody how upstanding and pure you are, let's get back to the topic, shall we?

>>The show is probably stopping some other crimes, but possibly giving the potential child-molesters some insight into how not to get caught.<<

Right. So let's not try to deter it. We don't dont want them to find a way around it.

>>I don't know anything for sure except I don't like watching humiliating shit on TV.<<

Well, sure, it's not for everybody. Television is entertainment. There's no point to pretending it has any redeeming value beyond that. Occasionally something like 9-11 happens and things get serious for a week or so but pretty soon it's just back to the bullshit. So I just sit back and get entertained. That's what it's there for and we all know it. And it's no deterrent if people don't watch.

>>Like the several predators who have commited suicide as the result of the show. Or the brutal beatings that resulted from the show.<<

Is that supposed to make me pity them? That's what should happen to them! You get caught having sex or trying to have sex with kids and you go to prison, you're going to get your ass kicked. And, no, I don't feel sorry for anyone who puts themselves in that predicament. They break the law, they get caught, they go to jail. That's how it works.

So the exposing of such people gets made into entertainment--so what? Their families, friends, coworkers and neighbors will still know about it whether it was on Dateline or not. Those things don't stay secret for long. It usually ends up in the papers at least locally and on the local news anyway. Everyone who is going to be hurt or destroyed by it will have gone through it whether it was on Dateline or not. Coverage of the crime is part of the punishment and it's always reported by somebody somewhere. And it should be. These people function on their anonymity--it's how they operate. They need to be and deserve to be exposed. It's in society's best interest to expose them.

>>Society is producing people who feel powerless and ineffectual which result in such heinous crimes of domination on the even less powerful and effectual.<<

And remember, it's cyclical. The ones they pray on very often will later pray on someone else. Long after you're gone from this planet, your ripples are still spreading. The less people who engage in such behavior--it's the surreptious, secretive native of it that bothers me most--the better.

>>The other reasons are simply base hormonal lust and lonlines resulting from poor self esteem and powerlessness.<<

I agree but they are hurting people whether they mean to or not and many of the ones they hurt will grow up to hurt someone they way they were hurt and so on.

It's easy to offer clinical reasons for why it happens but it won't matter to you once you're victimized by it or watch a friend having to deal with it.

Subject: RE: BS: To Catch a Predator
From: Donuel
Date: 31 Dec 07 - 11:58 AM

You asked for reasons, not for heaps of compassion, so I gave some reasons. For the record predators and control freaks are my least favorite people, even here.

Do with it what you will including predatory sniping at one another.
What do you guys have, hanovers already?

Subject: RE: BS: To Catch a Predator
From: Rapparee
Date: 31 Dec 07 - 11:59 AM

I've dealt with those who were victimized. I feel that these sort of people who do these things have no place in any society and that they should be removed in any legal way you care to employ.

I do not watch this show, and I will not watch it.

Subject: RE: BS: To Catch a Predator
From: 282RA
Date: 31 Dec 07 - 12:11 PM

>>Vigilantism is dangerous whoever the vigilantes are after.<<

I agree. But frankly so what if I do? I don't take justice into my own hands. I've seen the sexual offender watchlist for my area and there's a lot of them around here. How many have I gone after? None. But I don't have kids either. How can I blame someone who does for not wanting that guy living next door to them? Do they have right to know abou thim? Hell, yes, I believe they do. Can that result in vigilantism? Absolutely it could. Does that mean we should not have a watchlist? Some people say yes but I say no. Predators function on anonymity--it is their best friend and, as long as they believe they are anonymous, they'll start doing things.

But, otoh, do I care if somebody kills the guy? No, not really. And I don't care what happens to the vigilante either. These were two adults who made their choices and must suffer the consequences. I didn't make their choices and I have my own life to live. but I also believe I have a right not to be victimized when it could have been easily avoided exposing someone who is too dangerous to be allowed to be anonymous.

Let me put it this way: Suppose a good friend of yours had a wonderful son or daughter and you found out they were spending a lot of time at the house of the guy down the street who you learned was a sex offender. Would you say nothing? Would you warn only him but no one else's parents who might also have cause to be concerned? And if you warn people about it, are you not acting as a vigilante? Maybe. If someone kills him as a result of the warning you gave, are you partly responsible for the death? IMO, no. If you urged violence against him, then yes, but if you just warned people about his man's past, no. The person who killed him took matters into his own hands. There's a limit to the amount of responsibility you bear just for exposing the person.

Subject: RE: BS: To Catch a Predator
From: Big Mick
Date: 31 Dec 07 - 12:31 PM

Jeri's point is the valid one. Any method of catching these sick bastards is valid. But the desire to watch them be humiliated time and again seems pretty sick to me.

Catch 'em, prosecute 'em, publish their names on the registry..... that is justice and warranted. The need to see it on TV is twisted. But so is much of "reality TV". This isn't a helluva lot different than Jerry Springer.

Mick, heading back to his cave.

Subject: RE: BS: To Catch a Predator
From: alanabit
Date: 31 Dec 07 - 01:05 PM

I can think of plenty of moments in my own murky past, which I would not like to be held up for public ridicule and humiliation.
My children, indeed all children, deserve to be protected from sexual (indeed any type of) predators. I am fortunate in not having any particular desire for sexual contact with very young or very old people. In fact, I have no desire for anything except willing concensual sex. That does not make me good. It makes me bloody lucky. I was also lucky enough to be born with a natural aversion to excess in most things - like alcohol, drugs or eating. It has nothing to do with will power. Nature has simply been very kind to me.
Does that make me any better than a child molestor? My self esteem is not currently so low that I feel the need to feel good - or even self-righteously angry about that sort of thing.
I bet I am not the only Mudcatter, who would not like their most unpleasant moments to be held up for public examination. Making entertainment out of other people's misery tells us more about the audience than it does about the subjects of ridicule - no matter how distasteful they are.

Subject: RE: BS: To Catch a Predator
From: GUEST,Telford
Date: 31 Dec 07 - 01:13 PM

Just go onto bebo and look at the young girls it is ridiculous. There are loads of young girls sitting posing in either their underwear or less and the comments on their pages are very explicit.

I closed my page down recently due to vulgar comments being left on it.

I could post links, but they are just explicit.

And we wonder why grown men visit these sites. It is on a plate for them.

I imagine there are other sites every bit as bad.

Subject: RE: BS: To Catch a Predator
From: GUEST,Slag
Date: 31 Dec 07 - 01:37 PM

You know the old TV show starring Jack Webb, "Dragnet" had a really cogent and germane phrase it ended the show with: "...the names have been changed to PROTECT THE INNOCENT!" Emphasis mine. That's what is wrong here. The families and friends, business associates and the like all suffer from these explicit grand expos e's. What they are doing is akin to what the predators are doing. These are the things that were only whispered about, if at all, when I was a young person.

So. Help protect the innocent. Don't watch this garbage. The police can do this job effectively without a big spotlight and camera on them. Dealing with human filth and trash is part of their calling. God bless them.

Subject: RE: BS: To Catch a Predator
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 31 Dec 07 - 02:06 PM

Oh my bloody god....such wonderful compassion to these sexual deviants you all are showing. Oh no they are humiliated....what about the shame and humiliation they would impose on the young girls and boys they set out to dominate? Or would it be their fault? They enticed them.

The only compassion these bastards deserve is from the barrel of a gun.

Trouble is, these predators are someones loved ones. I hate what they're trying to do, and I hate that they probably can't be "reprogrammed" away from these preferences. They're the by-product of our modern society, with it's ripples and eddies of extremely permissive behavior on one hand and isolated titillation on the other. Learning about sex in isolation, using the Internet to feed perverse preferences, is a real problem. Yet the public institutions that might offer lucid sex education are prohibited from barely speaking about sex because a minority of religious interests have waged a pitched battle against such public education. American media isn't allowed to frankly address this either. Look at what is allowed and prohibited in public and commercial broadcasting. The FCC and American educators hold a great deal of power, but because it is all skewed by one subset of society, gibberish ensues. Broadcasting and education need more input from anthropologists, not just religious zealots.

The problem isn't going away until a larger open public dialog and resolve to be open about sex occurs.

Stilly River Sage

Subject: RE: BS: To Catch a Predator
From: GUEST,Slag
Date: 31 Dec 07 - 02:24 PM

Yes, SRS, in a perfect world. But then again, isn't that what this thread is about? It's not a perfect world and this has been going on since ancient times. It's not just a modern societal phenomenon. Some early and primitive peoples, including some American Indian tribes have actually incorporated such behaviors into their societies. Look at ancient Rome!

Yes. Education of those educable. What do you do with the rest?

Subject: RE: BS: To Catch a Predator
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 31 Dec 07 - 02:46 PM

Ja, vee must think up a final solution......und also for people vearing baseball caps the wrong vay round und driving round making too much bloody noise.

Subject: RE: BS: To Catch a Predator
From: Thomas the Rhymer
Date: 31 Dec 07 - 02:54 PM

What we need to solve this problem is something a little more institutional than vigilante. I think that anyone who dwells on this subject needs help... and I for one do not wish to watch the video, nor, for that matter, do I have any compassion for the perpetrators of sexual predation. Catch 'em, and put 'em away... it's that simple.

That said, I find the secondary evil generated by constant and explicit media exposure of this type of behavior to be 'rather more' than we acknowledge. If we weren't so steeped in this perpetual barrage of sexual permissiveness, life could only get better for us all...

Here is an article that gives me hope...

I can't believe that the US has let this 'laissez faire' of smut and licentiousness go on as long as it has.

Anyone out there ready for a few verses of "Are you going to Laissez Faire"?

ttr

Subject: RE: BS: To Catch a Predator
From: Jim Lad
Date: 31 Dec 07 - 03:29 PM

I got the feeling, right from the start, that 282 is just a little too interested in this topic.
My view hasn't changed.
I've seen the show.
It doesn't stand up in court.
The targets all respond to the invitations/insinuations put to them by someone who is well beyond the age of consent. Thus, no law is ever broken.
The host of the show and the police involved take absolute delight in humiliating them. In fact, they are closer to breaking the law than their targets ever are.
Some things are far better left to law enforcement and have no place in the world of entertainment.

Subject: RE: BS: To Catch a Predator
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 31 Dec 07 - 04:20 PM

The first thing you need to do (and I speak as a father of girls and a boy) is to recognise that girls and boys do need to be able to move into sex lives when they are ready and not when some frigid bitch with a bible says so.

Shit! Were none of you ever young?

The only reason I don't go into more detail is that some here know my daughters and son (and will agree that they are mostly wonderful).


Your first, yes your FIRST obligation to your children is to do what you can to allow them to have good sex lives when older. What else kills more heads?

Subject: RE: BS: To Catch a Predator
From: 282RA
Date: 31 Dec 07 - 04:30 PM

>>I got the feeling, right from the start, that 282 is just a little too interested in this topic.<<

Yet here you are. You've posted here a few times now on a thread I titled so that there would be no confusion about the content. You had the choice to simply ignore it and you chose not to. Why? So you could warn everybody about what a sick pervert 282RA is. I'm sure the world is grateful to you for your vigilance.

>>My view hasn't changed.<<

Of course or you'd have to stop posting here and we know you can't do that, don't we?

>>I've seen the show.
It doesn't stand up in court.<<

That's not true. Many of the guys have been convicted. Where do you get your facts--the ones you don't make up in your head, I mean--which includes the one you just made. Not all of them are convicted but most of them have been.

>>The targets all respond to the invitations/insinuations put to them by someone who is well beyond the age of consent. Thus, no law is ever broken.<<

There is no invitation put out. The suspect must always post about sex first. He is never drawn into it. Of course it's legal or cops wouldn't resort to it. Why don't you prove it won't work and try to solicit a mminor. Don't tell us--show us. I'll love watching you telling Hansen that the law can't touch you. That would be hilarious.

>>The host of the show and the police involved take absolute delight in humiliating them.<<

Good. Why do you have a problem with that?

>>In fact, they are closer to breaking the law than their targets ever are.<<

Now I have to start wondering about you. Why did you say this? How is exposing a stupid ass trying to get sex from a minor worse than the crime itself? Explain this please.

And what is your interest on this thread since you can't seem to stay off it?

>>Some things are far better left to law enforcement and have no place in the world of entertainment.<<

Everything is entertainment these days. Learn it and live with it. If it's on TV, it's entertainment. And everything is on TV.

Subject: RE: BS: To Catch a Predator
From: 282RA
Date: 31 Dec 07 - 04:33 PM

>>Your first, yes your FIRST obligation to your children is to do what you can to allow them to have good sex lives when older.<<

Would you give us some specifics, please?

Or better yet, what do you think should NOT be allowed?

Subject: RE: BS: To Catch a Predator
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 31 Dec 07 - 04:41 PM

You shouldn't be allowed to watch that programme. They shouldn't be allowed to screen it. And no one should be making a fortune out of child sex - however indirectly.

If it doesn't feel creepy to you, it does to nearly everybody else. Unsavoury and loathsome. It makes Jerry Springer sound like good wholesome fun.

Subject: RE: BS: To Catch a Predator
From: 282RA
Date: 31 Dec 07 - 04:56 PM

>>You shouldn't be allowed to watch that programme.<<

Wow, weelittledrummer has spoken! Is there anything else you forbid me to do?

>>They shouldn't be allowed to screen it. And no one should be making a fortune out of child sex - however indirectly.<<

So no one should ever discuss it on the air or in books or magazines. It should be kept under the rug because it's just so yucky, don't you know. We shouldn't be seeing the people trying to fuck our children behind our backs. Someone may make money off it.

What kind of self-righteous crap trip are you on?

Why don't you just wave a bible and say Jesus doesn't like To Catch a Predator because your mentality is pretty close to that.

>>If it doesn't feel creepy to you, it does to nearly everybody else.<<

Thank you for speaking for everyone else. Since they have neither tongues to speak with nor fingers to type with, they need a fully sound guy like you to do it for them. You should get a medal for your selfless heroism.

If you don't like the show, fine. Just say so and then go away. You've made your point--really.

>>Unsavoury and loathsome. It makes Jerry Springer sound like good wholesome fun.<<

Jerry Springer is acted. And nobody cares about the topics anyway. But go ahead and tell me how everybody--that great silent majority you speak for--doesn't care about who their children might run into online. All a kid has to do is give out an address, a name, even a photo, just the name of the school they attend--and if that info gets into the wrong hands... Oh, but let's not expose those people that's so loathsome. Let's just let them remain anonymous so that they can continue doing what they do.

Subject: RE: BS: To Catch a Predator
From: Thomas the Rhymer
Date: 31 Dec 07 - 05:05 PM

282RA...

Got a chip on your shoulder? Focus on that, and leave the rest of us out of it.

>>>Everything is entertainment these days. Learn it and live with it. If it's on TV, it's entertainment. And everything is on TV.<<<

Hardly anyone watches TV anymore... because hardly anything is on TV.

Life is Rich... get one.

ttr

Subject: RE: BS: To Catch a Predator
From: Kim C
Date: 31 Dec 07 - 05:06 PM

I think the show is WAY too sensational.

Subject: RE: BS: To Catch a Predator
From: 282RA
Date: 31 Dec 07 - 05:18 PM

>>Got a chip on your shoulder? Focus on that, and leave the rest of us out of it.<<

Hey, buddy, I started this thread. If you don't like it, get off it. Don't make this harder than it is. If you don't like my chip, don't post to me.

>>I think the show is WAY too sensational.<<

Welcome to America.

Subject: RE: BS: To Catch a Predator
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 31 Dec 07 - 05:21 PM

Welcome to America.

You certainly are...

Subject: RE: BS: To Catch a Predator
From: Bill D
Date: 31 Dec 07 - 05:37 PM

I have mixed feelings about the show. I have seen the show several times....and accidently clicked into it a few other times. At first I thought it was a clever, useful way to catch dangerous perverts...and I suppose in some cases it has done that, but I have had to stop watching it because ALL they do is lure guys and get them to take a stupid chance.

I see no attempt at examining the problem or suggesting ways to help, other than jail, 'exposure' and such. I'd bet that not all of these pathetic guys are truly dangerous....and I'd bet that some have had their lives ruined by having the ONLY time they ever tried to contact a minor filmed for national TV.
   I make no excuses for them....but I'm not sure that naming them and plastering their images around accomplishes much....except making some $$$ for NBC.(well, perhaps it has slowed down the smarter preditors from going to certain chat rooms)

If they protected the IDs of those who had no previous record and were otherwise good citizens, I'd feel better....and I have NO objection to using the technique to sort out and find the really scary predators...I just don't see that it warrants a TV show....and, indeed, the show may serve, as I mentioned, to give a heads-up to the smarter, more dangerous ones...leaving just an assortment of silly fools to be caught.

I can't watch it anymore....and I find NOTHING funny about it.

Subject: RE: BS: To Catch a Predator
From: Thomas the Rhymer
Date: 31 Dec 07 - 05:47 PM

Man, Oh man... You... 282RA... Oughtta lookityerself...

Life is Rich. Get one.

Subject: RE: BS: To Catch a Predator
From: Jim Lad
Date: 31 Dec 07 - 05:53 PM

I'm beginning to wonder whether or not this individual is trolling Mudcat in a search for people of like mind.
Either way, I'm pretty "Creeped out" here.


May be time to shut this thread down.

I am so gone!

Subject: RE: BS: To Catch a Predator
From: 282RA
Date: 31 Dec 07 - 06:32 PM

>>I have mixed feelings about the show. I have seen the show several times....and accidently clicked into it a few other times. At first I thought it was a clever, useful way to catch dangerous perverts...and I suppose in some cases it has done that, but I have had to stop watching it because ALL they do is lure guys and get them to take a stupid chance.<<

There's no lure. I hear people call it entrapment but it is not. If a cop poses as an underage decoy and asks you, "Do you want to have sex?" And you go to this person's house and get busted, it won't fly because you were lured. But if you initiate the sex talk, that's not entrapment. And these guys were not taking a stupid chance--well, they were--but these guys knew what they wanted from this person as soon as they posted. It wasn't a case of being persuaded where they had no intention originally. They posted specifically to engage in sex chat. That's not entrapment. Some guys take their time--weeks before they start talking about sex but some guys go into it within just a few minutes.

It's no different than policewomen dressing like hookers. They can bust you if you try to pick them up just so long as they don't signal to you or somehow initiate the contact. They just stand on the sidewalk and let some dumb rube pull over and start haggling for sex and he's busted and it's legal. And as far as publicizing it, that's just what the cops do. If you get busted around here for soliciting a hooker, they publish your name and your photo AND they confiscate the car you were using and then auction it off.

These men that get busted on Dateline are just the same way. Someone here already stated that men left all kinds of crude remarks on her page. Guys like the ones getting busted--this is what they do when they go online. It's not something that dawns on them at the last possible second the 50,000th time they posted online. They cruise the chat rooms specifically looking for sex with a minor. It's what gets them off. They have no shame--until they get caught.

Nobody's being lured into doing soemthing they wouldn't normally do. They had every intention of doing it from the first post. Why else would an adult man post to an underage girl to begin with?

Subject: RE: BS: To Catch a Predator
From: 282RA
Date: 31 Dec 07 - 06:34 PM

>>Man, Oh man... You... 282RA... Oughtta lookityerself...<<

What are you talking about??? Look at myself about what?? What am I doing that is so bad??

>>Life is Rich. Get one.<<

That's another thing. You're here just like I am. Who are you to tell me to get a life??

Subject: RE: BS: To Catch a Predator
From: 282RA
Date: 31 Dec 07 - 06:41 PM

>>I'm beginning to wonder whether or not this individual is trolling Mudcat in a search for people of like mind.
Either way, I'm pretty "Creeped out" here.<<

Jim Lad, I've been a member of this forum since at least 2001. This is the first time I have ever popsted on this subject. You and Catspaw and a couple of other losers start basically accusing me of trying to solicit sex with minors online just because I posted about To Catch A Predator and just because you don't like the show. Then I'm the one who is told he has a chip on his shoulder.

You have made unfounded and uncalled for accusations about me. You don't know me and therefore are talking completely out your ass.

And you seem pretty desperate that the type of online creep you're accsuing me of being should be protected from exposure. In that case, you had every reason not to try and out me, didn't you? It shows that you have your fat head up your fat ass and don't care anything about this subject. You're just an asshole who needs to go away.

>>May be time to shut this thread down.<<

FOR WHAT??? Because you don't approve of it???

>>I am so gone!<<

You are so right.

Subject: RE: BS: To Catch a Predator
From: 282RA
Date: 31 Dec 07 - 07:48 PM

>>I see no attempt at examining the problem or suggesting ways to help, other than jail, 'exposure' and such.<<

Such as what? Criminal sex therapists have a saying: "Whatever turns you on, turns you on." That means they can't cure you of a sexual addiction. If you like kids, you will always like kids. If you keep it to yourself, I don't care then. But then I wouldn't know about it either. The problem with these guys is that they cannot do that. Their fantasies have to become reality.

>>I'd bet that not all of these pathetic guys are truly dangerous....<<

What are you basing this on? Because he sulks on-camera about being lonely?? Is that a legitimate excuse in your eyes to chase after minors? Obviously not. There's no reason to assume these guys are harmless. One guy they busted had rope and duct tape in his car and no police record. They drove to the house, usually at least an hour drive but often 5 or 6 hours to come to a house where they thought they were going to have sex with a 13-year-old girl. That's not harmless to me.

I have a problerm with the Florida law that you cannot even chat them up about sex or you can be busted. After all, you don't really know who you're talking to anyway. I would agree a guy who did that should not have his life ruined. But once they come out to the house looking for a liaison, it's gone beyond harmlessness. Obviously they're motivated and that needs to be taken seriously.

>>and I'd bet that some have had their lives ruined by having the ONLY time they ever tried to contact a minor filmed for national TV.<<

Everybody they bust claims it's their only time. Do you think all of them are telling the truth? It's the only time they were caught--that's the only thing we can be sure of. Several were already registered sex offenders. At least two of them, Dateline busted twice. Only one guy that I saw admitted that he had done this "dozens" of times. These guys are sex addicts and sex addicts invariably ruin their own lives and I know this because I've known two of them.

One guy was a great guitarist who was going to be promoted by a producer whom I won't name and he went and boffed this producer's wife. Obviously, this producer broke off all contact. This guy STILL doesn't regret it though. The brief extra-marital sex was worth a life of possible fame and fortune (which he now admits would probably have killed him years ago anyway). Now he's getting sex addiction therapy but actually told me he only goes because the therapist is hot!!!

Another guy was a shipmate from my Navy days. He could not keep from trying to boff every girl he could get his hands on and I mean that literally. I wouldn't bring my girlfriends around him. One guy brought his fiance to him and when he ran out to get some food and drink, this guy boffed his fiance. Now, yes, she's just as responsible, but it ruined their friendship and this guy's marriage (he found out about it only after he married her). Sex addicts will take any chance at all to have sex and are SO good at conning people into thinking they were just some poor mixed-up guy who made a bad choice. Then they do it again. They can't help themselves. This guitarist I know--he's unrepentant. He has no conscience about it. Brags about it. Laughs about it. Imagine some guy that you were trying to help boffed your wife and years later still laughs about it. Big joke.

>>I make no excuses for them....but I'm not sure that naming them and plastering their images around accomplishes much....except making some $$$ for NBC.(well, perhaps it has slowed down the smarter preditors from going to certain chat rooms)<<

Like all predators, they will keep doing it until they are caught. And, no, we're never going to catch them all. Some will get away with it their whole lives. But maybe the ones who are new at it might get deterred before they have a chance to learn how to play the game and then can't stop. The experienced ones--forget it--they can't be helped anyway.

>>If they protected the IDs of those who had no previous record and were otherwise good citizens, I'd feel better....<<

And were otherwise good citizens? "Hey, ol' Charley's a great guy. Witty and a lot of fun. Lovely wife and cute kids too. Responsible job and all. He has a tendency to chase 12-year-old girls but otherwise he's great!" That falls under the category of "Praise you will never hear." I don't see how a predator can be a good citizen. He can act like one but he is not one. He's hurting people and he doesn't care. He'll keep doing it until he's caught.

>>and I have NO objection to using the technique to sort out and find the really scary predators...I just don't see that it warrants a TV show....<<

Well, that's your right to feel that way. Others disagree. I'm one of them. Knowing what I know about sex addicts, exposure is the only way to make them stop. They are addicted to sex and will keep doing it until they are caught.

>>and, indeed, the show may serve, as I mentioned, to give a heads-up to the smarter, more dangerous ones...leaving just an assortment of silly fools to be caught.<<

But, as I said, you can't do much about those guys anyway. They've been playing the game too long and are too smart. What we need to go after as a target audience are inexperienced guys who might otherwise decide to try it. Seeing a guy ruining his life may just scare him out of the online predator game. I think it's worth it. It gets some pervs off the street if nothing else.

>>I can't watch it anymore....and I find NOTHING funny about it.<<

And you'll find it far less funny if one of these guys victimizes you. Then you'll be furious if they protect him and cut him slack because he has no police record. I laugh at them because these guys are arrogant and think they can get away with it and it's funny to see their plan go terribly awry. I love that look that crosses their face when Hansen steps out--that "Who are you and what are you doing here--we're supposed to be alone" look. I do find it funny. What's not so funny is when they succeed. That's not funny at all.

Subject: RE: BS: To Catch a Predator
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 31 Dec 07 - 07:50 PM

Er - no, 282, I am not going to give examples on a public forum of what my late wife and I permitted with the end in view that our kids should not be fucked up about sex.

That remark of yours made me a lot more queasy.

Subject: RE: BS: To Catch a Predator
From: Sorcha
Date: 31 Dec 07 - 08:01 PM

282RA, I think it's time you folded your tent and took it elsewhere. NOTHING you have said convinces me that you are NOT one of these nasty evil people. You really do seem to enjoy talking about it, and posting about it.

We KNOW this evil is out there, and we do our damndest to protect our children from it. What we do NOT need is a television show that seems on the surface, to be outing these guys, but in reality is simply encouragaing the behaviour. Oh, gee, I might get famous on this show, then everybody would know my name!

That particular fetish is not exactly unknown to law enforcement. Maybe that is all the host (Chris, I believe you said?) is after...his tad bit of fame.

And exactly what are YOU after, 282RA? I'm curious as to just why you won't let this drop.

Joe, this thread is going nowhere fast. Can you please lock it?

Subject: RE: BS: To Catch a Predator
From: 282RA
Date: 31 Dec 07 - 08:11 PM

>>Er - no, 282, I am not going to give examples on a public forum of what my late wife and I permitted with the end in view that our kids should not be fucked up about sex.<<

Then why mention it? If you don't want to talk about it then don't talk about it.

Subject: RE: BS: To Catch a Predator
From: 282RA
Date: 31 Dec 07 - 08:19 PM

Good lord, I didn't think people would get this bent out of shape.

It's just a topic like any other.

But now that you've all outted me as this horrible perv I guess I better go turn myself in.

Subject: RE: BS: To Catch a Predator
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 31 Dec 07 - 08:36 PM

'Or better yet, what do you think should NOT be allowed?'

I tell you and you don't like it. I think your favourite TV programme is perverted. It takes pleasure in the discomfiture and humiliation of your fellow human beings. I really can't see much moral high ground between you and the weirdoes that your programme castigates.

Subject: RE: BS: To Catch a Predator
From: GUEST
Date: 31 Dec 07 - 09:58 PM

Vile - disgusting.

Pump this poster's nomoclur into YAHOO and read the first hits.

This a TROLL type person ... give them no "pay-out" and they will stop pumping nickles into the Mudcat slots.

Subject: RE: BS: To Catch a Predator
From: GUEST,amergin
Date: 31 Dec 07 - 11:49 PM

I am sorry, but saying these bastards are otherwise good members of society...well they are doing more harm to people than they would if they were simple thieves or murderers. The people they are harming are children who must bear the mental scars for the rest of their lives. The mental scars never heal and are the hardest to deal with and get passed. Many people never do.

Also saying that this deviancy is a symptom of modern society, I beg to differ. Child molestation and incest have been going on for hundreds and thousands of years, but no one ever talked about it. It just was not done. In many societies to talk about such make you the criminal, not the pervert who perpetrated the act. The only difference between now and then, is that now you have so many avenues for one to practice his deviancy, whether by way of fantasy or reality...also now you have people who talk about it...and the crimes they committed or were committed to them.

Subject: RE: BS: To Catch a Predator
From: GUEST,amergin
Date: 31 Dec 07 - 11:53 PM

Also to add, this show provides something very useful beyond the humiliation...it shows how many such deviants there are out there...and that they come from all walks of life...and could very well be your next door neighbour, the guy down the bar from you, the lawyer you are hiring for some legal matter, or even the cop who is arresting you. It coudl be anyone. Additionally with such vehemence about this show that I am seeing here, I must say how many of the people here are merely pissed off, because they well know that they may be the ones arrested for paedophilia?