What do you charge for out of town gigs?

Subject: What do you charge for out of town gigs?
From: GutBucketeer
Date: 24 Jan 08 - 11:11 AM

My band, The All New Genetically Altered Jug Band, has an opportunity to play for a "corporate" dinner in October. An hour show during cocktails plus some insrumental interludes during dinner (total time from 6:30 pm to 8:30 pm) It turns out to be about 250 miles away. In my initial phone conversations with the booking agency I quoted a rate ($700) a little higher than our normal rate for a 2 hour show and said I would need to get back to her on what we would charge to cover travel and providing sound (at the time I thought the show was only about 90 miles away).

My band mates, have gotten greedy. One, who actually turns out to be the leader, quoted $500 per person for the show ($2,000), plus $250 for gas, plus $600 for travel time, plus $250 for meals, plus lodging. This totals to over $3k. Another wants $300 per person.

I'm thinking that the booking agency books all over our area, and if we are unreasonable, we not only won't get this gig, but won't get any future gigs with the agency.

Now here is my question: What can we reasonably expect them to pay above and beyond what we charge for the actual show?

How do you figure out what to charge for out of town gigs at events?

Lodging for one night seems reasonable.
Transportation seems reasonable @ 50 cents/mile
Do you typically get extra money for meals?
Do you typically get extra money for travel time?
Is $200 reasonable to charge for Sound?

Note, that we are in the U.S. and I'm looking for what is normal/expected practice here. I suspect things are different in the U.K.

Jim Bunch

Subject: RE: What do you charge for out of town gigs?
From: Bert
Date: 24 Jan 08 - 11:28 AM

Ask your agency, they know what the market will bear and they want you to make as much as possible.

Subject: RE: What do you charge for out of town gigs?
From: kendall
Date: 24 Jan 08 - 12:08 PM

I used to use the "Hassle factor" in figuring a charge. That is, how badly do I want to do this?
When I did the gig in California with Utah Phillips I agreed on $700.00. It didn't cover plane fare, lodging or meals, but I really wanted to do it.
Same with the tour of Scotland in 1988. What I collected was a bit more than the plane fare, but I was able to write off the whole trip, and it was probably one of the most enjoyable trips ever.

On the other side, I have charged as much as $1000.00 for a gig that I wasn't keen on doing. I jacked the price up sorta hoping they would decline, but they agreed so I couldn't back out. That happened a number of times. The Union League Club on Park Avenue, NYC was one of those. Talk about hoity toity! I was under dressed in a three piece suit. They wanted me to wear a tux but I refused.

The only question before you is, how bad do you want to work? It goes without question that you have to decide how much you are worth.

Subject: RE: What do you charge for out of town gigs?
From: Jim Lad
Date: 24 Jan 08 - 12:43 PM

Prices vary but you are charging less than I will be this weekend and I play solo.
My last two trips were covered by "Air miles" so that's a bonus.
Your band mate has it right as long as you can provide the quality that comes with the price tag.
So here's how it sits. Solo artists generally do not use an agent because the percentage he/she receives does not add up to very much.
Why should an agent bother with a group who doesn't earn decent money and why get an agent if you want to run at a loss?
If I were you I would let your band leader make the arrangements for the band and you can take on as many other commitments as you wish, when the band isn't busy.
There are plenty of groups who are run off their feet, three nights a week because the band leader will take anything.
Then there's what Kendall says...
"The only question before you is, how bad do you want to work? It goes without question that you have to decide how much you are worth."

Yup! You got that right.

Subject: RE: What do you charge for out of town gigs?
From: GutBucketeer
Date: 24 Jan 08 - 12:46 PM

Agency? I wish...

Kendall, that's a very good point. I've travelled 7 hours each way for $100 to do shows I want to do. We also have incredible differences of opinion within the band.

I just don't know what common practice is.

JAB

Subject: RE: What do you charge for out of town gigs?
From: Leadfingers
Date: 24 Jan 08 - 01:02 PM

In UK , the 'going rate' for a pro band is around £100 Each for a nights work , between 8pm and Midnight . Extra hours would be more , and travelling over 100 miles would be extra as well .

Subject: RE: What do you charge for out of town gigs?
From: Jim Lad
Date: 24 Jan 08 - 03:32 PM

GutBucketeer: Common practice is all over the map. What Kendall is saying is that you have to choose what you want your common practice to be.
For some... If you are not turned down ten percent of the time because of money then you are not charging enough.
It's a given that the band will all have different opinions. That's why I was suggesting that you run with the band leader's appraisal.

Subject: RE: What do you charge for out of town gigs?
From: Folkiedave
Date: 24 Jan 08 - 03:45 PM

Even Morris sides have their price. A long time ago I quoted our normal garden party price, for a publicity gig with a motor car, and when the man said "Is that all?" quick-thinking yours truly said "Each". The booker never batted an eyelid. We thus got ten times our usual fee.

There are some bookers (the BBC used to be guilty of this) who do not book artists who are not expensive, reckoning that if they are not expensive they can't be any good.

Dave

Subject: RE: What do you charge for out of town gigs?
From: Rasener
Date: 24 Jan 08 - 03:56 PM

FolkieDave
Thats the last time I book your Morris side, you cheating git. LOL :-)

Only kidding folks.

Didn't know you were a morris dancer Dave?

Subject: RE: What do you charge for out of town gigs?
From: Phil Cooper
Date: 24 Jan 08 - 04:08 PM

Some of the best advice Art Thieme ever gave me was to quote a higher price. If it's out of their budget and you want to still do the gig, you can come down. It is very hard to go up. Corporate gigs tend to have larger budgets than a folklore society.

Subject: RE: What do you charge for out of town gigs?
From: Melissa
Date: 24 Jan 08 - 04:31 PM

If this is an annual corporate dinner, is there a possibility of finding numbers from last year's event..so you could see what their budget for the entertainment portion runs?

Subject: RE: What do you charge for out of town gigs?
From: BB
Date: 24 Jan 08 - 04:36 PM

I would agree that it depends on who's booking you.

If it's a one-off 250 miles away for a corporate gig, it would seem reasonable to charge enough, on top of your normal fee per band member, to cover fuel and reasonable overnight accommodation costs (or accommodation), plus (as it's a dinner) some food refreshments before the gig. If it's no more than 2 hours from home, personally I wouldn't charge for accommodation. If you're doing it through an agent, then you have to take into account his/her percentage as well.

I'm not sure what you mean by charging for Sound, i.e. whether you mean hiring equipment and/or a person to run it. Most bands that I know who do this sort of gig would have their own sound system and would run it themselves, but if you *have* to hire it in specially or hire someone to run it, I suppose it's not unreasonable to charge for it.

I don't agree that you should charge for travelling time, and I've not known anyone who does so.

I think the advice Phil quotes above is good - if you want to do any gig, make it clear that your quoted fee 'may be negotiable to a certain extent' - what that extent is will probably depend on how much you want to do it!

As to what your band members want to charge, it seems a hell of a lot to me, unless you're very well known, but I'm in the UK and maybe things are different over there!

Barbara

Subject: RE: What do you charge for out of town gigs?
From: M.Ted
Date: 25 Jan 08 - 12:29 AM

My guess would be that that someone who was booking a quartet   for a banquet would expect to pay a minimum would be about $700-800 per hour exclusive of travel and sound system expenses,-that would just be background music, not a show--and it isn't uncommon for a show act to ask $5000-10,000. You have to remember that corporate banquet events are big ticket items--food alone often starts at $100-150 per person--even a relatively small dinner might be $15,000 or more, and, depending on size, $200,000 events aren't unusual. And big events may have several bands.

It will help a lot to find out how many people will attend the event, and whether it is a stand-alone event or part of a conference or convention. Your sound person should get the same cut of the take as a band member--for events like this, professional sound can mean the difference between success and failure, and the sound guy should scope out the space ahead of time, and the band should do a rehearsal with him to set levels, etc.

You charge more for these events because it is actually a lot of work to do them right.

PS--Very bad to have two people quoting two different prices--one and only one of you should handle bookings.

Subject: RE: What do you charge for out of town gigs?
From: M.Ted
Date: 25 Jan 08 - 12:53 AM

Incidentally, it is important to remember that though you'll be doing a "folkie" act--this is not a "folkie" gig--they'll expect a polished and professional package. Also, you may need some lighting to go with the sound--that's why you have to find some way to check the space out--even though it is 250 miles away(that's a long ways away!)

Subject: RE: What do you charge for out of town gigs?
From: GutBucketeer
Date: 25 Jan 08 - 12:55 AM

Thanks for all of the advice. It gives me something to think about.

We usually charge more if we have to haul the pa, amps, mics, etc. because of the hassle factor and extra setup time. I turned it over to the band leader and he talked to the booking agent. He ended up with a total that is more than I would have worked out and less than his original suggestion. He also has contacts for other gigs in the area. So it might turn into a tour - Kewl!

Now we are waiting to see if its acceptable to the buyer. I'll post how it turns out.

JAB

Subject: RE: What do you charge for out of town gigs?
From: Hamish
Date: 25 Jan 08 - 05:58 AM

Corporate gigs should be charged much, much more than folkie gigs. Not only because their budgets are generally higher, but also because they have an in-built hassle factor of a largely apathetic audience.

--
Hamish

Subject: RE: What do you charge for out of town gigs?
From: kendall
Date: 25 Jan 08 - 12:38 PM

I developed a standard answer to how much do you charge?

I quote a price. If they take it, no problem. If they complain and say something like, "We were thinking like, say $50.00" and I'm expected to drive 100 miles, I knew I would not be doing that gig at all, so I'd say, "Let me tell you the fable of the oats.If you want good quality, fresh oats, you have to pay top dollar. However, if you can settle for those that have been through the horse, they are much cheaper."