Kate Rusby sings Sandy Denny !!!!

Subject: Kate Rusby sings Sandy Denny !!!!
From: GUEST,Rogthedodge
Date: 01 Feb 08 - 07:02 PM

Sweet-voiced folkie heaven; the darling Kate sings the immortal Sandy's best song - it couldn't really get better.

It's only a verse and as a background to the latest episode of BBC 1's Jam & Jerusalem but it was there.

Maybe just maybe Kate will record it or include it in the next tour set list.

Nice one Kate, let's hope we get to hear it all.

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby sings Sandy Denny !!!!
From: GUEST,Rogthedodge
Date: 01 Feb 08 - 07:04 PM

Doh! - Should have said it was 'Who Knows...'

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby sings Sandy Denny !!!!
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 01 Feb 08 - 07:49 PM

Another potentially very enjoyable programme torpedoed by the Dawn French trademark character...

As for the song, I'm sure Kate will have sung the whole thing. There'd be the makings of a good soundtrack album for the programme, what with the opening credits and other stuff.

Subject: RE: !!!!
From: Barry Finn
Date: 01 Feb 08 - 09:47 PM

"Kate Rusby sings Sandy Denny", not likely. Sorry, but that's my personal opinion.

Barry

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby sings Sandy Denny !!!!
From: nager
Date: 02 Feb 08 - 01:51 AM

Barry:
Why be sorry if you wish to express your personal opinion.
I am not at all sorry to say that I totally disagree with you.
Both women were/are very fine singers in my opinion.

Paul

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby sings Sandy Denny !!!!
From: Andy Jackson
Date: 02 Feb 08 - 03:05 AM

Oh you mean Dawn French being a quite believable Rosie Bales,
and then of course there's Pauline Mclynn being Mrs Doyle from Father Ted
Sue Johnson, Mum from the Royal Family, etc.

Perhaps actors get a bit typecast because they have perfected the character and the audience like to recognize that character. The casting director will choose the actor who portrays their vision of performance required, and for me the cast works in "Jam and J".
Just stop moaning and enjoy the show, it's only telly!
Oh and sit back and wait for the CD of the soundtrack. Kate is already getting airplay for the title track.

Andy

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby sings Sandy Denny !!!!
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 02 Feb 08 - 03:30 AM

Kate has been singing this for a while..heard it on radio two a few times now so it must have come to the notice of the producers there. Nice song..well sung..in spite of what the anti-Kate brigade may come up with.

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby sings Sandy Denny !!!!
From: AllanW
Date: 02 Feb 08 - 03:43 AM

Good for Kate, and good for Kate's fans. Why shouldn't she sing whatever she wants?

I get fed up with this sacrosanct Sandy rubbish. If Sandy were here now I'm sure she would be perfectly happy that her songs were being sung and recorded by her contemporaries.

(Now, knowing Mudcat, I have to go through my words to make sure it is C & K proof ... oops, okay, I can't be 'sure' that Sandy would be perfectly happy, I just imagine she might be!)

:)

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby sings Sandy Denny !!!!
From: My guru always said
Date: 02 Feb 08 - 04:05 AM

I was delighted with the whole episode, it's definitely good telly as far as I was concerned. Having Kate singing 'Who Knows' on the program was the icing on the cake for me and will have done the reputation of 'us Folkies' considerable good in being shown to a wide audience!

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby sings Sandy Denny !!!!
From: the lemonade lady
Date: 02 Feb 08 - 04:06 AM

This'll put the pigeon amongst the cats... I can't stand her 12yr old's voice. Seems to me that more men like her than women, now why is that do you think?

Meow

I'll get my coat

Sal

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby sings Sandy Denny !!!!
From: GUEST,Rogthedodge
Date: 02 Feb 08 - 04:38 AM

Mslemon - each to their own. I think you're wrong about the male/female split on her audience - then again I've actually been to her concerts whereas you clearly haven't.

Geogiansilver - Really? I'd never heard it before, you don't recall which R2 show it was on do you? I'd love to track it down and hear it in full

AlanW - I'm sure you're right, Sandy would have loved it

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby sings Sandy Denny !!!!
From: GUEST,JJ
Date: 02 Feb 08 - 04:39 AM

stumbled across this the other day

Jam & Jerusalem

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby sings Sandy Denny !!!!
From: nager
Date: 02 Feb 08 - 05:11 AM

Thanks for putting that link here JJ - very good and thoroughly enjoyed it.
Oh and Ms Lemon, I also loved Ray Davies singing the theme song Village Green Preservation Society too - and I don't fancy him I can assure you.
And yes, when I saw Ms Rusby the audience was about 50-50 and we all loved her excellent singing and the brilliant musicianship from the band.
Have you ever seen her in concert?

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby sings Sandy Denny !!!!
From: Jeanie
Date: 02 Feb 08 - 05:33 AM

I wonder at the suitability of the song or the singer for the title music of the show.

Kate Rusby always has such a marked northern twang in her voice and that just doesn't fit a show set in the West Country.

The lyrics of the Kinks song are, I reckon, far more negatively mocking of "preservation society" types than the audience of Jam & Jerusalem are intended to be towards the characters.

I've been listening to Radio 2 a lot more lately (sign of old age ??)and the Village Green song is being played endlessly - at least once every hour - and I am getting sick and tired of it, hence my more grumpy than usual comments above ;)

- jeanie

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby sings Sandy Denny !!!!
From: Rasener
Date: 02 Feb 08 - 05:50 AM

I really like it.

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby sings Sandy Denny !!!!
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 02 Feb 08 - 05:52 AM

"Seems to me that more men like her than women, now why is that do you think?"

Tripe.

Whenever I've seen Kate - and that's many times, be it solo or in the various combinations she gets involved in - the audience has always looked pretty much 50-50. Mrs. Fenswoman thinks she's fantastic, as do many of the female members of our local club.

Stow the sexist comments please Ms. Sourpuss, and get yer facts right.

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby sings Sandy Denny !!!!
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 02 Feb 08 - 06:13 AM

Never seen Kate. I like her voice probably more on the Northeastern traddy stuff, but I have to admit that she does a good job of the VGPS and indeed she made a very good fist of Sandy's song too - it's a tough one to sing, I wish I had a penny for every mangled version I have heard in clubs.

Oh, and leave Ms Lemon alone, you vultures; she knew she was being controversial ("get me coat etc"), and anyway, she just voiced an opinion, c'mon... And she's my friend. And no, I haven't got the hots for Kate, Sally, as indeed I believe she doesn't for me :-).

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby sings Sandy Denny !!!!
From: GUEST,Rogthedodge
Date: 02 Feb 08 - 06:18 AM

Well we've had sexism and now we have racism (or regionalism) - a 'Northern' singer shouldn't be singing on a West Country show????? What next UK pass laws?

TBH this is getting silly and a thread about Kate singing sandy's best song has degenerated into Rusby-bashing, the green-eyed monster eh?

Anyway to return to the main point; anyone else heard KR doing WKWTTG before and if so any pointers as to which station and show?

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby sings Sandy Denny !!!!
From: Giant Folk Eyeball (inactive)
Date: 02 Feb 08 - 06:23 AM

Really like the VGPS - but with 'source material' like that you'd have to be rubbish to get it wrong. Look forward to hearing her tackling Sandy Denny.

Kate Rusby is someone who usually gets a real pasting on folk forums. Don't know why - she's not exactly the Great Satan. Although she's not usually entirely to my taste, its nice to see her getting some positive comments here. She's someone quite a few of my non-folky friends 1) have heard of 2) like and 3) own records by. Not sure what this means, but I guess she must be doing something right. More power to her elbow, then.

Sings in a northern accent too, which gets a thumbs up from me. I like the Arctic Monkeys for the same reason. Goes against the tendency for singers who don't want to sound american to end up sounding like southerners. Actual southerners, of course, are allowed to sound like southerners... enough.

Cheers

Nigel

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby sings Sandy Denny !!!!
From: Giant Folk Eyeball (inactive)
Date: 02 Feb 08 - 06:25 AM

Sorry Rodge, think we cross-posted there.

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby sings Sandy Denny !!!!
From: Jeanie
Date: 02 Feb 08 - 06:39 AM

I have nothing against regional accents or people from different regions - my comments were not "regionalist", Rodge and Nigel.

The point I was and am making is that it is not suitable, for the title song of a television show, to have the song sung in a markedly different accent from the place in which the show and its characters are set. Think way back for instance, to the TV show "When The Boat Comes In" - how ludicrous would that have been to have had the title song sung in an upper-class southern "Noel Coward"-type accent instead of Geordie ?? Exactly... That is my point. Suit the voice to the part, the song to the singer, the title song to the show.

- jeanie

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby sings Sandy Denny !!!!
From: GUEST
Date: 02 Feb 08 - 06:45 AM

No worries Nigel - it was Jeanie's post I was commenting on.

Like you I like the fact KR sings her own accent and it's good to hear non-southern accents on the airwaves.

Too many people (southerners?) seem to assume a northern English accent is somehow 'wrong', whereas Scottish or Irish is 'heritage' - I can only put it down to blind ignorance and simple prejudice.

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby sings Sandy Denny !!!!
From: Lowden Jameswright
Date: 02 Feb 08 - 06:45 AM

Whilst debating why's & wherefores of Kate's singing voice - spare some time to listen to the lady whose voice inspired Kate in the first place - Sharon Fountain.... another Barnsley lass, and with a great voice and delivery of real PUNCH...

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby sings Sandy Denny !!!!
From: Rasener
Date: 02 Feb 08 - 06:47 AM

I just find it so bad for people to slag performers off publically.

If you like the performer, by all means shout it to the roofs.

However, if you don't like the performer for whatever reason, e-mail them privately and explain why. Don't do it in public like this. We all have our likes and dislikes, but to slag a performer off in a forum like this is IMHO in very bad taste and very bad mannered.

I am willing to bet that anybody that slags Kate Rusby off on a public forum, hasn't got 1% of her talent. Is that you. Would you like to be publically slagged off. I bet not.

Any way I'll get me Kate

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby sings Sandy Denny !!!!
From: Jeanie
Date: 02 Feb 08 - 06:50 AM

Look, guys, if you re-read my posts you will see that I am not commenting on Kate Rusby's voice/accent in general, but *specifically* about the suitability of her, or anyone else, singing with a markedly northern accent as the signature song for a TV show set in the West Country.

How about the signature tune of "Only Fools and Horses" (clearly set in London) being sung in a Glaswegian accent, then ? Yes - laughable. That's the point I'm making.

- jeanie

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby sings Sandy Denny !!!!
From: GUEST
Date: 02 Feb 08 - 07:02 AM

OK Jeanie I took you for another Rusby-basher (and these people really annoy me, fine to not like an artist but to try and suggest they're not 'proper' artists / only popular because they're not ugly is pathetic IMO) maybe i had you wrong.

However Jeannie would you have J&J without Sue Johnstone (a scouser) or Pauline McLynn?, actually I'm not sure any of the cast are actually 'west-country' - what regional limitations would you apply to such a series? west of Swindon?, Devon & Cornwall only etc etc.

Seems to me that's an unstainable point.

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby sings Sandy Denny !!!!
From: Geoff the Duck
Date: 02 Feb 08 - 07:17 AM

I wasn't watching the programme, but it was on the telly in the background whilst I was looking up some info on the computer. I recall commenting to myslf that it was nice to have background music on a tv programme which was "folky" instead of the usual overloud electic stuff. At that moment I glanced up and realised that it was Kate and presumably her band performing live in the actual scene.
It was nice to note that the folk performers were there playing straight and not just put in so that some character could make a joke out of them. It wasn't the usual "let's throw rocks at the morris dancers" type of appearance. Kate and her band were probably the most sensible thing in the show. We could do with a bit more exposure where folk music is trated as something which should be part of life and not there to be mocked.
I never took to Jam and Jerusalem as a comedy, mostly because I found the characters and situations totally unfunny and over the top. It is packed with a cast containing some extremely talented actors who are being wasted because the script is poor and someone has the stupid idea that every character in each scene has to say something.
Quack!
GtD.

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby sings Sandy Denny !!!!
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 02 Feb 08 - 07:24 AM

Hi Rodgethelodge......I guess I can't remember which prog it was on but it was one morning last week I heard it last....had to sit and listen to it to the end before leaving the car to drop shopping off at my daughters. Sorry can't be more helpful but it has been on at least three times to my knowledge.

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby sings Sandy Denny !!!!
From: Geoff the Duck
Date: 02 Feb 08 - 07:26 AM

trated ???
TREATED AS...
Quack!
GtD.

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby sings Sandy Denny !!!!
From: GUEST,rogthedodge
Date: 02 Feb 08 - 07:32 AM

HI Georgiansilver, thanks for the pointers I'll see if I can track it down - it's not an album release so either a session recording or maybe (just thought of this) the B-side to VGPS (do they still have B-sides??)

Not that I'm old or owt :)

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby sings Sandy Denny !!!!
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 02 Feb 08 - 07:39 AM

The action is set in a West Country village, but it could just as easily have been in the Yorkshire of Calendar Girls (which is clearly one of the inspirations for the series), so Kate's accent doesn't really clash. There is nothing particularly South of England about the WI.

My gripe about Dawn French's character is because in my view it just doesn't fit, it belongs in a different kind of comedy show. "Just stop moaning and enjoy the show" - the trouble is I think the show would be a great deal more enjoyable without this character, and I know I'm not alone in that. "It's only telly" makes as much sense as "it's only a song" or "it's only a play" or "it's only a meal". True enough, everything is what it is - but that's no reason to despise it, and see it as not worthy of attention.

As for "The Village Green Preservation Society" - I think this is much more affectionate rather than simply mocking, even in Ray Davies original sardonic version. Aware of the absurdity of the attitudes being listed, but in the last resort being on their side against the things they stand against. A good choice as a theme song.

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby sings Sandy Denny !!!!
From: Jeanie
Date: 02 Feb 08 - 07:56 AM

Guest of 07.02 AM: Thanks for re-reading what I said and realizing that I wasn't "Rusby-bashing".

As far as the question you ask about the casting and setting, I think the whole show has been constructed in a rather woolly way. As far as I can see and read, it is just set in vaguely "the West Country".

I agree with Geoff - some good actors who have more than proved themselves elsewhere, dealing manfully (or womanfully) with a very weak script. The whole thing looks to me as if the casting happened before the writing - which never works nearly as well as the other way round.

Re. Sue Johnstone: Whether she is a scouser by birth/own speaking voice or not has no bearing whatsoever on the parts in which she, or any accomplished actor, is cast or can deal with. It shouldn't matter where they originate from. What matters is that they present the character (including the appropriate accent) believably, fitting the character they are playing at the time. You don't have to be a Cockney to perform successfully and believably in EastEnders, for instance (e.g. June Brown's own speaking voice is very different from her character).

- jeanie

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby sings Sandy Denny !!!!
From: GUEST,Rogthedodge
Date: 02 Feb 08 - 08:07 AM

'Guest of 07.02 AM' - that was me , forgot to type my name in.

You say 'As far as I can see and read, it is just set in vaguely "the West Country".' and I agree - so I don't see how that ties in with your comment about KR being inappropriate as she's from Yorkshire.

Isn't the show about ENGLAND, with incomers and local yokels just getting on with village life? With a scouser, two London-refugees, and Irish girl among the characters (and isn't that one of the main planks of the concept?) I don't see how having a Yorkshire-voiced theme can be inappropriate.

Anyway google is showing nothing for KR/WKWTTG - guess I'll have to bother Emma again.

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby sings Sandy Denny !!!!
From: Suegorgeous
Date: 02 Feb 08 - 08:28 AM

What's C & K?

Yeh, vultures do thrive on Mudcat... at the risk of bringing 'em down on my head, I find Kate's voice very beautiful, yet cold and emotionless, so thus moves me not at all. Not slagging her off at all, she's technically fantastic, I'm sure, and pleases a lot of people. Vive la difference!

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby sings Sandy Denny !!!!
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 02 Feb 08 - 08:30 AM

I agree with Lowden Jameswright. Sharon Fountain is one of the North's best-kept secrets. Judging by the dim view many folkies take of success, I reckon she's best kept that way. We've got her and we love her. 'Nuff said.

George, sorry to be a 'vulture', but it really does hack me off when people suggest that men's brains are in their kecks, and they only 'like' female singers because they're fantasising about getting them in the sack! :-)   
If your pal makes that kind of broad-brush, unjustified and unjustifiable comment, then those it's aimed at are surely allowed to respond.
I'd be a fan of Kate's even if she looked like the back end of a tram-smash. If that makes me a 'vulture', "Squawk, squawk"!
But you know I'm not like that really!

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby sings Sandy Denny !!!!
From: Jeanie
Date: 02 Feb 08 - 08:45 AM

Rodge - it doesn't matter whether KR (or whoever sings the signature song) is "from Yorkshire" or not - it's the ACCENT used which is the point. Someone can be "from Yorkshire" (or "from Liverpool, Glasgow, wherever)...but that doesn't mean that in the context of a play or TV show they have to speak or sing in that accent, if the play or show is set *elsewhere*.

A signature tune or signature song for a play or series is the first point of reference for the audience. If I hear a signature song in a particular or specific accent, that is already telling me, as an audience member, before the first scene begins, something about what I am about to see. It needs careful selection and I think, on this occasion, the programme makers didn't make the best choice of song or accent in which the song was sung - which was my original point.

(i.e. Kate Rusby toning down her northern accent would have been fine. Just hearing it as a signature song suggests to the audience: "Ah, this is set in Northern England" - which it clearly isn't).

- jeanie

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby sings Sandy Denny !!!!
From: Suegorgeous
Date: 02 Feb 08 - 09:23 AM

Backwood - you may not be like that, and it's good you protest you're not...and yet, I do agree with Sal that that is generally an attitude in the music industry. Why else did Michelle McManus get such an undeserved slagging and disappear from view the instant she won X Factor? she had a great voice, yet didn't fit the stereotype...

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby sings Sandy Denny !!!!
From: GUEST,Dr Price
Date: 02 Feb 08 - 09:51 AM

By the way, did anybody notice Andy Cutting superbly supporting Kate on melodeon? Absolute magic!

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby sings Sandy Denny !!!!
From: GUEST,squeezeboxhp
Date: 02 Feb 08 - 10:32 AM

whilst slagging of the (Yorkshire accent) of KR please remember that the Cawthorne Barnsley accent would sound as odd in Calender Girls   (Rylstone)as any west country accent, up here in the grim north we can tell easily within a few miles the area that the accent is from usually. Hull to Redcar is very different to the Keighley Todmorden accent of the same county and Leeds and Bradford virtually joined together are differentagain.

by the way i think her singing is great

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby sings Sandy Denny !!!!
From: Jeanie
Date: 02 Feb 08 - 11:12 AM

Guest "Squeezebox" - in case your comment about "slagging off the (Yorkshire accent) of KR" is directed at me, please re-read my posts and you will see that I am *not* "slagging off" anybody's accents !

I agree with you about her singing - but I don't think it's best suited for this particular context (i.e. signature song of a TV series set in something the programme-makers vaguely describe as The West Country).

I agree, too, about the particularities of accents. "A Yorkshire accent" or "A West Country Accent" or "A Southern States Accent" means virtually nothing, and any actor/performer worth his salt will spend a long time training and practising to get the specifics within each broad group right for the particular town/district etc. of the character he is playing.

The programme makers have set "Jam & Jerusalem" in a vague "West Country". As McGrath said earlier on, it could just as well have been anywhere, but they have, for whatever reason, said that is where Clatterford is ~(perhaps so as not to be accused of copying Calender Girls too closely ?)

The whole setting, characterization and writing of the series is far too woolly: a vaguely created medium for particular performers, rather than a particular setting in which to then cast performers to suit.

Just my view on things...

- jeanie

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby sings Sandy Denny !!!!
From: GUEST,The Mole Catcher's toned up Apprentice
Date: 02 Feb 08 - 11:44 AM

"I.e. Kate Rusby toning down her northern accent would have been fine"

No it wouldn't have been "fine", as you so delicately put it. An area or regional accent just that it characterises that particular person or person. As for confusing the viewers, that seems to say more about you than the Jam and Jerusalem audiences, it also insults the intelligence of the said viewers

"Just my view on things..."

Yes I think we know exactly what you view on "things" is

Charlotte (doesn't tone anything down for anybody)

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby sings Sandy Denny !!!!
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 02 Feb 08 - 11:56 AM

Oops - Guest above was me.

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby sings Sandy Denny !!!!
From: GUEST,Rogthedodge
Date: 02 Feb 08 - 12:07 PM

Ruth! - How the chest?

TBH I thought you were going to croak during the op and be written out, glad i was wrongs and to see you're still around and even up to typing!

:)

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby sings Sandy Denny !!!!
From: Mrs.Duck
Date: 02 Feb 08 - 12:11 PM

Maybe the choice of actors, singers etc is making the statement that although the fictional setting of the show is somewhere in the South West it could just as easily be anywhere in rural England as the location is not pivotal to the plot.

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby sings Sandy Denny !!!!
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 02 Feb 08 - 12:13 PM

"I thought you were going to croak during the op and be written out"

OOOOOH NOOOOOO!

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby sings Sandy Denny !!!!
From: GUEST
Date: 02 Feb 08 - 12:15 PM

Ruth, is this friend of yours the same one who performed Sandy's music in a band named The Nerve...as in "of all the nerve!"?

Charlotte (humming along to Sandy Denny)

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby sings Sandy Denny !!!!
From: Giant Folk Eyeball (inactive)
Date: 02 Feb 08 - 12:30 PM

Driftin', but... Linde Nijland sings Sandy Denny is well worth hearing. Linde is a Dutch singer and one half of Ygdrassil.

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby sings Sandy Denny !!!!
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 02 Feb 08 - 12:37 PM

No, Molecatcher. She's done the songs solo and with Fairport, but with no one else (to the best of my knowledge).

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby sings Sandy Denny !!!!
From: GUEST,The Mole Catcher's Apprentice
Date: 02 Feb 08 - 12:48 PM

Sorry Ruth, thought you may have been speaking of Vikki Clayton, who, and I think it was at a Cropredy, put together The Nerve as a one offer to perform some of Sandy's songs..you mentioned the solo album and I immediately thought of Vikki's album, It Suits Me Well, which she recorded with Ric Sanders, Chris Leslie and Dave Pegg, among others.

For those who didn't know, and I was one till fairly recently, Vikki went on to perform with a band that could have only been described as almost-Fotheringay. It featured, along with Vikki on vocals, Jerry Donahue, Pat Donaldson, Gerry Conway and Doug Morter (replacing Trevor Lucas).
Sorry about the thread drift there....

Charlotte (still listening to Sandy)

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby sings Sandy Denny !!!!
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 02 Feb 08 - 01:06 PM

I was talking about Vikki, actually - not as clued-up on that period of her career as I thought, obviously. She gave me the CD years ago, and it's some time since I listened to it. When we see each other we don't talk about music - we generally talk about clothes and hair and have a girlie bitch-fest... :)

She's emigrating quite soon, BTW - if you want to catch her before she goes, she's doing a few gigs around Leicestershire in coming months.

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby sings Sandy Denny !!!!
From: Jeanie
Date: 02 Feb 08 - 02:08 PM

Charlotte (Molecatcher's apprentice) - you appear to be totally misunderstanding what I have been saying here.

I am talking about the introductory song to a fictionalized television series. I am not talking about a concert performance by a named performer, performing as themselves (i.e. Kate Rusby performing as Kate Rusby). Of course, in that situation, there would be no need or question of her toning down her regional accent because yes, I agree with you totally: that is what makes her "her", it characterizes her as the unique individual that she is. The same would apply to any performer performing as themselves, and quite rightly so.

But we're not talking about that, are we ?
This is about a piece of music (in this case a song) being used as a tool to introduce a piece of drama. In that context, the music serves the drama. In my opinion, the music does not best serve as an apt introduction to the drama which is to follow. The introductory music is as much a part of the drama as the actors and performers within it. Of course, actors will tone down their own way of speaking if it is at odds with the content of the piece. There is absolutely nothing wrong in toning down in that context - in fact, it is absolutely right. (How would it be to have Maggie Smith, for example, playing a lady from New Orleans but speaking in her own native Scots accent ??)

It is immaterial who is singing the introductory song. It matters not one jot to the drama whether we know or recognize who the singer is or not. What is key is whether the voice/accent used suits what is to come. It's a dramatic tool - not a concert performance by a named performer.

My view on things is from the perspective of the presentation of a drama and its effectiveness.

- jeanie

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby sings Sandy Denny !!!!
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 02 Feb 08 - 02:36 PM

As has been pointed out the accents of the other characters vary, and this is presumably intentional. Not everyone in the place they were born and brought up in, even in rural England lives.

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby sings Sandy Denny !!!!
From: GUEST,The Mole Catcher's Apprentice
Date: 02 Feb 08 - 02:40 PM

didn't someone say somewhere or other that very few rural people can actually afford to live where they were born?

Charlotte (brussel sprouts as part of dinner tonight)

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby sings Sandy Denny !!!!
From: GUEST,The Mole Catcher's Apprentice
Date: 02 Feb 08 - 02:45 PM

"you appear to be totally misunderstanding what I have been saying here."

No why oh why did I know you were going to say that? *LOL*



"My view on things is from the perspective of the presentation of a drama and its effectiveness"

my view on this is, it's just television therefore there's little need to be so serious about it...a pleasant way to spend some time.

Charlotte (a rural prospect from Ma and Pa's piano stool

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby sings Sandy Denny !!!!
From: Jeanie
Date: 02 Feb 08 - 02:56 PM

Mcgrath - I don't know how much *intention* has actually been applied to "Jam & Jerusalem" compared with a lot of other, better, TV comedy dramas. As I've said before, it all seems rather vague and woolly around the edges to me and a contrived vehicle for the actors/performers.

(Charlotte: as a total aside, I heard on the radio the other day about a man called Russell who changed his surname to Sprout, just for the fun of it !)

- jeanie

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby sings Sandy Denny !!!!
From: Jeanie
Date: 02 Feb 08 - 03:02 PM

I had to be serious, Charlotte, in response to the comments you made to me in your post of 11.44 AM.

- jeanie

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby sings Sandy Denny !!!!
From: Suegorgeous
Date: 02 Feb 08 - 03:32 PM

Charlotte

Yes - you were pretty serious in that previous post! you might not find TV "pleasant" if quite a few people hadn't put quite a lot of serious effort and thought into it...

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby sings Sandy Denny !!!!
From: Cuddles
Date: 02 Feb 08 - 04:17 PM

It's just a TV series folks. I mean...come ON. Lighten up here and get off Charlotte's back, at she's bringing some humour into this thread.

Are you really saying that only people from the south west can now sing, appear, perform in south west productions or programmes that are about the south west then? Are you saying that only Yorkshire singers can perform any theme tunes to programmes set in Yorkshire?

How long do you have to have lived in said areas to qualify for this?
Seven generations or more? Or 'just moved in last week, eee it's loovley 'ere in't it!"

I think this is really stretching a very pedantic point.

It doesn't confuse me at all, I know they have a Yorkshire lass singing the theme tune to Jam & Jerusalem, and singing it very well.

End of story.

Or is it?

To be continued.........................................

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby sings Sandy Denny !!!!
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 02 Feb 08 - 04:23 PM

Cuddles I seem to recognise your style, have you ever been to Sidmouth?
G.

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby sings Sandy Denny !!!!
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 02 Feb 08 - 04:24 PM

"just" And an egg is just an egg, but that does not mean that it is irrelevant to consider its qualities when it comes to eating.

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby sings Sandy Denny !!!!
From: Cuddles
Date: 02 Feb 08 - 04:26 PM

How kind of you. I do have 'style' even if I say so myself.

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby sings Sandy Denny !!!!
From: Cuddles
Date: 02 Feb 08 - 04:34 PM

""just" And an egg is just an egg, but that does not mean that it is irrelevant to consider its qualities when it comes to eating."

I have to confess that I have never compared a TV theme tune with eating an egg, nor any other type of food. I do not 'savour' theme tunes in quite that way, nor do I lose sleep over wrong accents in wrong geographical places.

It really is not important in my life, sure as eggs are eggs.

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby sings Sandy Denny !!!!
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 02 Feb 08 - 04:41 PM

I don't think anyone has said they are losing any sleep over all this. Is the implication that discussion should be reserved to matters of extreme urgency?

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby sings Sandy Denny !!!!
From: Suegorgeous
Date: 02 Feb 08 - 04:42 PM

I don't have an opinion, haven't seen it, not that bothered.

But if we're talking about getting off people's back, I just think someone should get off Jeanie's back... not nice. :)

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby sings Sandy Denny !!!!
From: GUEST,The Mole Catcher's Apprentice
Date: 02 Feb 08 - 04:49 PM

"Cuddles I seem to recognise your style, have you ever been to Sidmouth?"

and this has what, exactly. to do with the thread? I mean apart from the series and Sidmouth being in the West Country of England

Charlotte (fishing out the Roget's Thesarus)

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby sings Sandy Denny !!!!
From: Jeanie
Date: 02 Feb 08 - 04:52 PM

Cuddles - no, if you read my posts carefully, you will see that I am most definitely NOT saying that "only people from the South West can now sing, appear, perform....etc....in productions that are about the South West."

I am getting on no-one's back, Cuddles. Comments were directed towards me in a post at 11.44 AM (certainly not containing "some humour") and I responded, properly and politely, as I am now doing to you.

- jeanie

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby sings Sandy Denny !!!!
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 02 Feb 08 - 04:52 PM

Molecatcher, Giok is speculating that Cuddles is actually a banned member named Lizzie Cornish, who comes from Sidmouth, and who sometimes adopts a false identity to get round her banned status.

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby sings Sandy Denny !!!!
From: Cuddles
Date: 02 Feb 08 - 04:55 PM

Not at all, but some things can become over-pedantic.

Kate Rusby is merely singing the theme tune to Jam & Jerusalem, so what for heaven's sake?

This thread started with a positive comment about Kate, the song, her voice, the series etc. It's degenerated into a 'regionalism' politically correct soap opera, in my eyes at least.

Now if you'll excuse me, I'll leave you to be pedantic, insult Dawn French (yet again) and generally whinge on, whilst I go and watch some more episodes of the series and thoroughly enjoy myself, as I sing along with Kate.

I may or may not, also decide to join The Women's Institute, although I'd draw the line at being asked to appear in The Calendar, unless of course, it was for The Loose Women's Insitute Calendar.

Now there's a thought!

Strawberry Jam 4 Ever!

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby sings Sandy Denny !!!!
From: the lemonade lady
Date: 02 Feb 08 - 04:56 PM

Yeah, yeah, yeah she's good at what she does, but I think it's a shame that all the young folkie girls starting out want to sound like her. I suppose she's quite a good role model but I agree, Vive la differance.

And I still maintain she sounds like a 12 year old.

I have my coat on now.....

Ms. Sourpuss

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby sings Sandy Denny !!!!
From: Cuddles
Date: 02 Feb 08 - 05:02 PM

To avoid confusion, my post there was in answer to MgGrath's above.

Cuddles is my name Ruth Archer and Cuddles is my nature, unlike some.

Now I'm off to search for my sticky buns with the extraordinarily large cherries on the top, then settle down to some more of the lovely and very pretty Dawn French.

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby sings Sandy Denny !!!!
From: Bonnie Shaljean
Date: 02 Feb 08 - 05:02 PM

I'm still trying to fit "an egg is just an egg" to the tune of As Time Goes By. (Damn, where is Greg Stephens when you need him for a rhyme? ... you must remember, Greg, an egg is just an egg...)

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby sings Sandy Denny !!!!
From: Jeanie
Date: 02 Feb 08 - 05:07 PM

Nice one, Bonnie !

- jeanie

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby sings Sandy Denny !!!!
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 02 Feb 08 - 05:09 PM

"Cuddles is my name"

Course it is, love. Mind if we call you Cud?

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby sings Sandy Denny !!!!
From: GUEST,The Mole Catcher's Appretince
Date: 02 Feb 08 - 05:17 PM

"And I still maintain she sounds like a 12 year old."

I have no real opinion of Kate Rusby either way, but at least she has a sound (regardless of what it may be) rather than being one of the many, many cookie-cutter created singers that seem to inhabit most genres of music these days.

Charlotte (somewhere ova the rainbow)

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby sings Sandy Denny !!!!
From: Bonnie Shaljean
Date: 02 Feb 08 - 05:29 PM

French toast or omelettes
Never out of date
Eat them with bacon
Listening to Kate
Woman needs man
And man must have a plate...

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby sings Sandy Denny !!!!
From: Cuddles
Date: 02 Feb 08 - 05:34 PM

(somewhere ova the rainbow)

Now that's good! Bonnie, you have to use that somewhere in your song.

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby sings Sandy Denny !!!!
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 02 Feb 08 - 06:03 PM

I wasn/t really annoyed Backwoodsman, just going for comedic effect... I know you're not like that. Funny thing, neither is Sally.

And festival season is coming, and there will be hot days...

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby sings Sandy Denny !!!!
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 02 Feb 08 - 07:46 PM

And eggs is especially eggs on Pancake Tuesday this week!

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby sings Sandy Denny !!!!
From: harpmolly
Date: 02 Feb 08 - 11:24 PM

Deep cleansing breaths...

(breaking my vow to stay out of this thread)

mslemon...obviously and admittedly you're doing your best to stir the pot. Good for you. However, this "I think she sounds like a 12 year old" business...I can't help but feel that more specific complaints are needed. For example, I have a growth hormone deficiency, and as a result am 4'9" (at age 32), extremely youthful in appearance, and yes, still sound like a 12-year-old. However, I am told by many people that I have a beautiful and enjoyable voice. (I am not saying that to be vain, but to make a point). So I don't see why that in and of itself is your idea of a dig. You could say, "Her voice is high and squeaky and has no depth or maturity to it," for example; I don't agree, but at least I would concede that was a valid opinion.

As big a fan of Kate's as I am, I concede that her delivery and arrangements can occasionally drift into snoozeville. But I think when she's good, she's very very good. And I still have a hard time understanding how a girl who has grown up steeped in the folk tradition, has paid her dues to the folk community, and has done an amazing amount to promote folk music to the world can be instant thread poison here on the Mudcat. People seem to take perverse pleasure in turning any Kate Rusby-related thread into some sort of snipefest. I don't get it.

Of course everyone is entitled to his or her opinion...that's a given. But people should remember that they *can and will* be judged on HOW they choose to express their opinions.

/rant off.

Molly

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby sings Sandy Denny !!!!
From: nager
Date: 03 Feb 08 - 04:56 AM

Well said Molly!

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby sings Sandy Denny !!!!
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 03 Feb 08 - 05:24 AM

"People seem to take perverse pleasure in turning any Kate Rusby-related thread into some sort of snipefest. I don't get it."

People will be people, Molly, and the Tall Poppy syndrome alive and well. Such reactions don't surprise me (my distance from age 32 may be linked to that). What with that, and the natural difference in tastes, disagreements are the norm; and when communicated in writing, without body language to help, misunderstanding and offence-taking too.

I really don't think Ms Lemon was being "12-year-old-ist" or any other kind of "-ist", it was just her way of expressing the impression she has of Kate's voice. Let's not make more of that than (I believe) was originally intended.

But to get back to Kate, I think it's great that she's making inroads into wider-than-folk areas. At the end of the day, she is an artist, and free to go where her muse takes her and jump whatever fences are on her way. We, or the "folk world" (whatever that might be), don't own her. Neither did she get there purely by excellent management, promotion and backing. All that did was give her some more chances. Her talents are doing the rest. We can like where she goes and what she does, or not. We can observe and follow with interest or grouch. That should mean bugger all to her, and good luck to her in her endeavours.

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby sings Sandy Denny !!!!
From: AllanW
Date: 03 Feb 08 - 05:24 AM

I'm not sure I get this criticism of Kate Rusby's voice.

Surely there's room in the world for her distinctive voice, even if she does sound younger than her actual age. I enjoy having the rich canvas of different voices available to me, the more the better I'd say.

Once again it's not the whining on about Kate's voice I object to, it's the fact that people won't admit it's her popularity that really gets up their noses.

My objection to Miss Rusby is that since she recorded VGPS I can no longer sing it in clubs! That was MINE Missy!! hehe

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby sings Sandy Denny !!!!
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 03 Feb 08 - 05:35 AM

It's a cracking song. When I heard it accompanying the titles, it rang a bell, but it must have been 30+ years since I had heard the Kinks' version so had forgotten that it was a Ray Davies song; this thread reminded me. Now, there's a songwriter I truly admire and wish I could emulate, finding just the right phrases and tunes to use for emotional effect and writing about ordinary folks' lives.

Hat off to RD, and to KR for an excellent cover.

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby sings Sandy Denny !!!!
From: AllanW
Date: 03 Feb 08 - 06:11 AM

Couldn't agree more George. Mind you, I'm steering clear of discussions about The Kinks here as the last time I mentioned them it prompted me to vanish from Mudcat for three years. Remember the quote Richard "Goodbye, with the emphasis on GOOD"?

For nostalgic purposes I re-visited that thread and realised that I was getting my knickers in a knot over nothing. How could I have seriously been worried about discussing music with someone who said "I have remembered the name of that Cuban guitarist now, Richie Havens" and "I think The Kinks were onstage at Cambridge, or it may have just been one of them"

Anyone who was at Cambridge that year must have been in a coma if they had any doubt who was on stage!

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby sings Sandy Denny !!!!
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 03 Feb 08 - 06:50 AM

I'm not a Kate Rusby fan and I think her version of The Village Green Preservation society is excellent as is her version of Who Knows Where the Time Goes.
Jeanie needs to get her head out of her arse, it's the theme song, not part of the show, so why should Kate tone down her accent ? she comes from Barnsley and is proud of it.

By the way, Cuddles can't be Lizzie Cornish, her posts are far too short and she hasn't mentioned Show of Hands once.

eric

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby sings Sandy Denny !!!!
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 03 Feb 08 - 06:52 AM

Eric, have a look at Cuddles' other posts...

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby sings Sandy Denny !!!!
From: Jeanie
Date: 03 Feb 08 - 07:26 AM

Eric, that was a very rude remark you directed towards me (06.50 AM).

You are, of course, entitled to your opinions, as I am, also.
I am looking from the point of view of effective programme-making, not from the point of view of a someone listening to a song, in isolation, by a named performer.

We are looking from different persoectives. We beg to differ. Civility and courtesy cost nothing.

- jeanie

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby sings Sandy Denny !!!!
From: GUEST,Chris Murray
Date: 03 Feb 08 - 07:48 AM

I like Kate Rubsy. Her albums are a bit samey but her shows are good and she's got a lovely voice. I think there's room on the folk scene for a voice like hers.

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby sings Sandy Denny !!!!
From: Cuddles
Date: 03 Feb 08 - 07:58 AM

"Eric, have a look at Cuddles' other posts..."

It would seem the only person who is interested is you Ruth. Obviously there is some sort of 'vendetta' going on here, to which I am not a party, therefore I'd be grateful if you would take your problems elsewhere, this is a music forum. Thanks.


I too love Kate's version of the song. There is also perhaps a deeper irony here than Ray Davies possibly meant when he wrote the song, where he was perhaps poking fun at those in the song, and that being that so much of what he wrote about is now disappearing.

I've taken the lyrics from the Jam & Jerusalem link above and all I'll say is "God save the village green' indeed!

'The Village Green Preservation Society' by Ray Davies

"We are the Village Green Preservation Society
God save Donald Duck, Vaudeville and Variety
We are the Desperate Dan Appreciation Society
God save strawberry jam and all the different varieties

Preserving the old ways from being abused
Protecting the new ways for me and for you
What more can we do

We are the Draught Beer Preservation Society
God save Mrs. Mopp and good Old Mother Riley
We are the Custard Pie Appreciation Consortium
God save the George Cross and all those who were awarded them

We are the Sherlock Holmes English Speaking Vernacular
Hell take Fu Manchu, Moriarty and Dracula
We are the Office Block Persecution Affinity
God save little shops, china cups and virginity

We are the Skyscraper condemnation Affiliate
God save tudor houses, antique tables and billiards
Preserving the old ways from being abused
Protecting the new ways for me and for you
What more can we do

God save the Village Green.

[Ray Davies]


Perhaps the WI needs to take over the country! :-)

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby sings Sandy Denny !!!!
From: GUEST,Eleanor Roosevelt's knickers
Date: 03 Feb 08 - 08:00 AM

Yes, Cuddles is definitely Lizzie Cornish. It's not just that she mentions Show of Hands (but not Seth Lakeman?), it's the vocabulary that she uses. She only knows three adjectives. Plus all the exclamation marks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby sings Sandy Denny !!!!
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 03 Feb 08 - 08:05 AM

Oh,she mentions Seth Lakeman elsewhere as well.

"Obviously there is some sort of 'vendetta' going on here, to which I am not a party, therefore I'd be grateful if you would take your problems elsewhere, this is a music forum. Thanks."

ROFL!

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby sings Sandy Denny !!!!
From: Cuddles
Date: 03 Feb 08 - 08:08 AM

I do apologise, I hadn't realised you weren't supposed to use exclamation marks in here. I merely use them to emphasise something, as in humour in my final remark about the WI above. This thread itself has 4 exclamation marks in the title I should point out, and you've made no mention of that.

Again, there is obviously a personal vendetta going on here, which I am unaware of. Surely it would be more gracious for you to take that elsewhere, if you are into vendettas of course, and keep to the subject matter of the thread.

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby sings Sandy Denny !!!!
From: Suegorgeous
Date: 03 Feb 08 - 08:09 AM

I think George's 05.40 post is spot on. I don't like Kate's voice, does nothing for me, but each to their own. We should be celebrating our differences in taste, etc, not arguing about them.......what a boring world it would be if we all liked the same things!

And I still think Jeanie has a point.

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby sings Sandy Denny !!!!
From: Cuddles
Date: 03 Feb 08 - 08:13 AM

"Oh,she mentions Seth Lakeman elsewhere as well."

As do many others.

You have a problem lady, get over it and get off my back.

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby sings Sandy Denny !!!!
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 03 Feb 08 - 08:15 AM

oh, come on, lizzie. Don't be shy.

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby sings Sandy Denny !!!!
From: Cuddles
Date: 03 Feb 08 - 08:15 AM

"I think George's 05.40 post is spot on. I don't like Kate's voice, does nothing for me, but each to their own. We should be celebrating our differences in taste, etc, not arguing about them.......what a boring world it would be if we all liked the same things!"

Exactly Sue, well said.

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby sings Sandy Denny !!!!
From: secbird
Date: 03 Feb 08 - 08:58 AM

Love the series, love the actors, love the music, the Kinks and Kate.

Hate people on here who have nothing better to do but constantly slag off good old light entertainment.

If you dont like it turn it off - dont listen, dont look, and stop bloody moaning.

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby sings Sandy Denny !!!!
From: Willa
Date: 03 Feb 08 - 10:27 AM

Harpmolly Thanks for the link to your video; wonderful stuff! i urge other catters to listen.

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby sings Sandy Denny !!!!
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 03 Feb 08 - 10:51 AM

C!

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby sings Sandy Denny !!!!
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 03 Feb 08 - 11:03 AM

I just did, Willa - indeed, a gorgeous rendition, but I will disagree with Molly about one thing: She definitely does not sound like a 12-year-old. Too much maturity in the interpretation for that. Sorry Molly, you're simply blessed with a high, clear range that others would break an arm for. If ever you meet up with Willa, make sure to sing a duet; hers is another voice I love, and unfortunately haven't heard for almost 3 years now... My loss.

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby sings Sandy Denny !!!!
From: harpmolly
Date: 03 Feb 08 - 11:51 AM

*blush* aw thanks :)

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby sings Sandy Denny !!!!
From: GUEST,Ms Sourpuss
Date: 03 Feb 08 - 12:46 PM

I've never watched the program and I've only ever heard KR sing the song half way thru once. I just wanted to say what I think of KR!

I agree "We should be celebrating our differences in taste" but I think it's a shame that most of the 15yr old folkie girls want to sound just like her. Are there any who use Sandy Denny as a role model? Is this what they're teaching in Gateshead?

8+

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby sings Sandy Denny !!!!
From: AllanW
Date: 03 Feb 08 - 12:53 PM

I can't think of a single person who sounds like Kate, whereas I can think of dozens of female singers who have tried to sound like Sandy, all pretty much in vain to be honest.

Erm, whatever happened to sounding like oneself?

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby sings Sandy Denny !!!!
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 03 Feb 08 - 12:55 PM

"but I think it's a shame that most of the 15yr old folkie girls want to sound just like her"

We-e-e-ll, we all have to start somewhere, and most of us start/started by imitating our idols to a greater or lesser degree - I certainly did. 15 is a very young age for anyone to have a style of their own completely developed, but by getting out there and doing it, albeit in someone else's style, doors open and confidence grows.

I could think of a very great many, far worse singers' styles for a young lady to use as a crutch in her journey through music. And at least she sings with an English accent, and she sounds way better than Beyonce. :-)

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby sings Sandy Denny !!!!
From: Cuddles
Date: 03 Feb 08 - 12:58 PM

"Erm, whatever happened to sounding like oneself?"

Oh, that's been banned, didn't you know? Sounding like oneself could give rise to individuality and that's forbidden these days (see John Lennon thread for previous rant) ;-)

It's why we have so many "Tonight Matthew I'm going to be..." programmes. The Day Of The Individual is growing ever dimmer.

There's only one Sandy Denny and only one Kate Rusby, accept no others, for they are all imposters.

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby sings Sandy Denny !!!!
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 03 Feb 08 - 01:05 PM

The smilies are creeping in again Lizzie

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby sings Sandy Denny !!!!
From: AllanW
Date: 03 Feb 08 - 01:15 PM

Aye, I feared that Cuddles. Over the years of listening to our wonderful floor singers in clubs, I have always longed for that one individual voice to come along and every now and again one comes along. It must be said that some of them haven't had the songs or confidence or the other important things that have to go along with the good unique voice to make people sit up and listen for more than one shot.

The Sandys and Kates are few and far between but we can be thankful for having them. Of course Sandy was more than just a voice, she was a superb songwriter and anyone who either knew her or has at least read Clinton Heylin's 'No More Sad Refrains' will know what a huge personality she was too.

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby sings Sandy Denny !!!!
From: Bonnie Shaljean
Date: 03 Feb 08 - 01:25 PM

BRILLIANT book, that - out of print last time I looked. Hope it's been reissued or soon will be.

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby sings Sandy Denny !!!!
From: AllanW
Date: 03 Feb 08 - 01:28 PM

I just happen to run a branch library and have a copy in. I watch it like a hawk! hehe

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby sings Sandy Denny !!!!
From: GUEST,The Mole Catcher's Apprentice
Date: 03 Feb 08 - 02:18 PM

"Clinton Heylin's 'No More Sad Refrains'"

read the book as you listen to the double CD of the same name...pure magic. :-)

Charlotte (No more sad refrains)

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby sings Sandy Denny !!!!
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 03 Feb 08 - 02:58 PM

Here is what this thread has been about.

Here is a vid of Kate's version - with illustrations of the cultural icons mentined intehsong.

And here is Ray Davies singing (most of) his song.

I think the right term for this song is probably "post ironic" - by which I mean that while the words are gently self-mocking, the song actually means what it says.

And Kate Rusby does it proud. (And there are plenty of people living in the West Country with accents just like hers. People move around before they settle down, and even afterwards.)

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby sings Sandy Denny !!!!
From: GUEST,The Mole Catcher's Apprentice
Date: 03 Feb 08 - 03:09 PM

I think the right term is..Ray Davies observing...someone said of RD that he was and is the best observational song writer that Britain has known...I concur

Charlotte (the prospect before us)

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby sings Sandy Denny !!!!
From: Rasener
Date: 03 Feb 08 - 03:12 PM

I saw the Kinks in the Concertgebouw in Amsterdam many years ago.They were brilliant and Ray was a bundle of energy.

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby sings Sandy Denny !!!!
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 03 Feb 08 - 05:03 PM

Hey Les would that have been 1974..I think...we might have stood next to each other eh?

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby sings Sandy Denny !!!!
From: Suegorgeous
Date: 03 Feb 08 - 07:56 PM

I longed to sound just like Maddy Prior in my teens/20s, with a bit of Sandy thrown in...

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby sings Sandy Denny !!!!
From: Snuffy
Date: 03 Feb 08 - 08:02 PM

Maddy sounded gorgeous, so long as you weren't bothered about making out what the words were.

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby sings Sandy Denny !!!!
From: harpmolly
Date: 03 Feb 08 - 09:45 PM

Quick note re: 15-year-olds trying to sound like Kate...um, for the most part, I think trying to sound like their influences is mainly what 15-year-olds do. :) I can only wish I'd had Kate around when I was fifteen. I could tell you who *I* tried to imitate, but then I'd have to kill you. ;)

(Hint: "Lost In Your Eyes." *shudder*)

I sincerely hope anyone who watches "Matt Hyland" will agree that I've managed to shake off *that* particular influence. *grin* Oh, and incidentally, I first heard that song from Kate Rusby, but I then fell in love with and adopted the original melody as sung by Andy M. Stewart rather than Kate's version. So I think I'm capable of being objective about her.

Anyway, even if you do regret the imitations, I don't see why you hold it against Kate. Should she be faulted for being a compelling enough performer for people to want to imitate her? Should she go around saying, "All right girls, this is MY sound and I don't want anyone else ripping it off?" These arguments always end up smacking of resentment of someone's success, to me.

M

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby sings Sandy Denny !!!!
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 04 Feb 08 - 03:02 AM

My friend and I spent a lot of time in the late 80s trying to sound like Maddy Prior and June Tabor on Silly Sisters. I was June Tabor - windswept and interesting. She was the lighter, more frivolous Maddie.

Actually, we really were old enough to know better.

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby sings Sandy Denny !!!!
From: pavane
Date: 04 Feb 08 - 03:53 AM

Nearly 30 years ago, Mrs Pavane was trying out Crazy Man Michael, and I foolishly made a suggestion that she should try a little more 'breathiness' in the voice.

Ever since then, whenever I make a suggestion on her singing (which is as rarely as possible, in the circumstances), she has always thrown at me that I wanted her to sound more like Sandy Denny. She says that of her voice sounded remotely 'breathy', she would think she was losing it (her voice, that is)

So just last week, I played two versions of Lowlands of Holland to some friends, without identifying the singers (Sandy Denny and Mrs P).
And which did they prefer? Mrs P. So maybe I was wrong.

(Shudder to think what she would say if I wanted her to sound like Kate Rusby. Welsh and Barnsley don't mix!)

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby sings Sandy Denny !!!!
From: GUEST,DK
Date: 04 Feb 08 - 04:49 AM

Yes us single blokes like the sexy but innocent, northern tones of Kate!

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby sings Sandy Denny !!!!
From: Raggytash
Date: 04 Feb 08 - 06:07 AM

I do not see how anyone can make a comparison between two vastly different singers. Sandy Denny was one of the finest singers I ever had the good fortune to hear, sadly Kate's singing doesn't do anything for me, if other's enjoy it fine, good luck to them, but I don't think Kate is in the same league for clarity, tone, intonation, expression and good old basic tunefulness (if there is such a word)

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby sings Sandy Denny !!!!
From: mattkeen
Date: 04 Feb 08 - 07:14 AM

I too have folk or traditional singers who I like and some who I don't like.

To somebody who is not really into the same music as me then the differences from one singer to another might seem very slight.

Taking that into account, I am still really surprised and how vehement some people with folk tradition can be when saying who they like and who they don't.

I prefer other guitar players to Martin Simpson for instance. That doesn't mean Martin Simpson (insert example of your own) should really be described as virtually unlistenable, its just I don't really like it - it doesn't toll my bell. THIS IS ONLY AN EXAMPLE NOT THREAD DRIFT ABOUT MARTIN< WHO IS A FINE GUITARIST AND MUSICIAN>

I think it would be better if we could tone down the more extreme statements.

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby sings Sandy Denny !!!!
From: mattkeen
Date: 04 Feb 08 - 07:15 AM

PS - other people think we are mad, lets stop giving them so much ammunition.

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby sings Sandy Denny !!!!
From: The Tillerman
Date: 04 Feb 08 - 07:22 AM

I really like it.

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby sings Sandy Denny !!!!
From: Bonnie Shaljean
Date: 04 Feb 08 - 07:35 AM

Ruth, you jogged a few memories. My friend and I used to do Lal & Norma Waterson, can you believe the cheek? (We were old enough to know better too.) Our world premiere - and one and only public appearance - was Leicester Square tube station. All other times we confined ourselves to her flat, so at least some good sense prevailed. It was fun, though. We never did work out which of us was Lal and which was Norma.

Re Kate - I like her singing, I respect her talent, I certainly admire her spirit and enterprise to go out and DO things instead of sitting around dreaming about it, and (there's no "but"): in some songs my favourite version is hers, while with a few others I prefer someone else's performance. (How many artists is that NOT true of?) I certainly don't question her right to sing anything she wants to, or think less of her if I happen to like another rendition of a given song better. Why does she inspire such blanket judgements? Hello-cyberspace-earth-calling: All Rogthedodge did in the initial message was say he liked something, and try to share it.

PS: Without Kate I would never have been turned on to fabulous Andy Cutting (I don't live in Britain) so top marks there too. Successful artists can nourish other artists, a point which too often gets overlooked.

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby sings Sandy Denny !!!!
From: Bryn Pugh
Date: 05 Feb 08 - 04:48 AM

And ?

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby sings Sandy Denny !!!!
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 05 Feb 08 - 05:35 AM

She only gets negative comments because she is overexposed by the bleedin Rochdale Cowboy on his radio show, I'm not a fan of her singing but Kate has a great personality and gets my admiration for what she has achieved.

eric

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby sings Sandy Denny !!!!
From: Mrs_Annie
Date: 05 Feb 08 - 06:10 AM

So has anyone found out any more about the track being played on Radio 2?

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby sings Sandy Denny !!!!
From: GUEST,Michael
Date: 05 Feb 08 - 08:13 AM

"So has anyone found out any more about the track being played on Radio 2?"

The track on radio two quite a bit is the village green preservation society. Not heard any other KR track on radio two recently during the day.

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby sings Sandy Denny !!!!
From: GUEST,Bramble
Date: 05 Feb 08 - 10:27 AM

She seems to loved by the men, but I'm not surprised by the pics that are her publicity.

Bramble

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby sings Sandy Denny !!!!
From: harpmolly
Date: 05 Feb 08 - 11:32 PM

Just a quick note to say that I think "Bitter Boy" off her latest album is one of the most gorgeous and heartbreaking songs I've ever heard. Especially if you watch the Youtube video of her performing it at Cambridge FF with John McC. Egad...not to bring THAT subject again...but anyway, amazing song!

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby sings Sandy Denny !!!!
From: Ian Burdon
Date: 06 Feb 08 - 06:18 PM

"She seems to loved by the men, but I'm not surprised by the pics that are her publicity."

Oooh, get her!

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby sings Sandy Denny !!!!
From: harpmolly
Date: 06 Feb 08 - 06:43 PM

Yup, those tasseled nipple covers & pasties will do it every time. ;)

NOT!

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby sings Sandy Denny !!!!
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 06 Feb 08 - 06:50 PM

Oh come on all the critics...go to Youtube and feed her name in...play a few of her songs and you can plainly see the girl has talent........In spite of the Yorkshire accent..the voice is lovely ...the presentation great and her overall charm as a singer is there...what the heck more do you want?.

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby sings Sandy Denny !!!!
From: Suegorgeous
Date: 06 Feb 08 - 08:12 PM

Personally...some gut feeling and some soul........*ducks*

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby sings Sandy Denny !!!!
From: harpmolly
Date: 06 Feb 08 - 10:50 PM

sue: I can see where you're coming from, but I actually *do* perceive those things in her, despite her laid-back style. Oh, well...

Again, what I find interesting about this thread is the number of people who pop in, say something negative about Kate, and then *duck* or say something like, "Now I've set the cat among the pigeons!" (I can't remember the actual quote, but I'm too lazy to go back and check). Which to me suggests, yet again, people being negative merely for the sake of getting a reaction. Hey, it's a free forum, but I still don't get what it is about Kate that brings out this sort of gratuitous behavior. Do y'all really despise her that much, or do you really need attention that badly?

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby sings Sandy Denny !!!!
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 07 Feb 08 - 06:27 AM

"In spite of the Yorkshire accent.."

Correction, GS - "BECAUSE of the Yorkshire accent..". Yer gret daft wurzel! :-)

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby sings Sandy Denny !!!!
From: AllanW
Date: 07 Feb 08 - 06:35 AM

Aye-up GS and Backwoodsman, a'l see thee oer in Gainsborough soon if tha still lets Yorkshiremen in.

When's your next club and where is it these days?

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby sings Sandy Denny !!!!
From: GUEST,Edthefolkie
Date: 07 Feb 08 - 07:02 AM

Sandy Denny - sacrosanct? Please God, no. As Vikki Clayton has repeatedly said, the more people who pick up on Sandy's songs the better. I haven't heard Kate Rusby sing "Who Knows" but good for her say I. Bring a few more on, like "Bushes and Briars" for instance.

Anyway, Sandy wouldn't have wanted to be put on a pedestal like Nick Drake. If Sandy had been put on a pedestal in her lifetime she would either have tripped over it or sworn at it.

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby sings Sandy Denny !!!!
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 07 Feb 08 - 09:18 AM

Allan W you would be most welcome at our club which is in the Melrose Sports and Social Club...in an upstairs room, not this Friday night but next week. If you keep an eye open on the music threads here...we have a perma thread and directions to the club are on it.
Best wishes, Mike.

Backwoodsman..there was some criticism of the 'Yorkshire accent' earlier in the thread and I was saying 'in spite of' to make the point that her voice is good whatever. I personally love her Yorkshire twang...especially when she sings Chilton Prices' "You Belong To Me"
Cheers buddy!

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby sings Sandy Denny !!!!
From: GUEST,Cragrat
Date: 07 Feb 08 - 10:58 AM

Yorkshire doesn't have an accent, it has a speech impediment.

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby sings Sandy Denny !!!!
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 07 Feb 08 - 11:55 AM

LOL GS! That's a beer I owe you! :-)

Allan, get yersen ower to t'Melrose Club - next club neet is Friday 15/2/08. Be good to see yer agen!
J

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby sings Sandy Denny !!!!
From: katlaughing
Date: 07 Feb 08 - 12:29 PM

Jaysus, I hope the puir girl doesn't read this. Another load of complainers and non-constructive critics. It'd just be hell to let folks say they like something and leave it at that, wouldn't it? To agree to disagree without a lot of sniping, personal attacks and all.

McGrath, a bit late but thanks for putting in the link. I love her accent and I esp. love her singing of this song. Beautiful, though a teeny bit more tremolo than I like. She has a lot of talent, imo.

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby sings Sandy Denny !!!!
From: Jeanie
Date: 07 Feb 08 - 12:51 PM

For the record: my comment about Kate Rusby's accent was ONLY in the context of the programme makers' choice of having ANYONE with a Yorkshire (or any other than "West Country" accent or neutral RP accent) singing the introductory song to a particular TV programme. No more, no less.

If I was criticizing anyone, it was whoever chose that particular recording for that particular programme.

Nothing wrong with any regional accents. Quite the contrary.

- jeanie

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby sings Sandy Denny !!!!
From: GUEST,Kath
Date: 07 Feb 08 - 02:18 PM

Harpmolly - well said.
Ms Sourpuss - most appropriately named judging by her comments.
KR's ' My Young Man ' - beautiful - full of soul and emotion.

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby sings Sandy Denny !!!!
From: GUEST,The Mole Catcher's Apprentice
Date: 07 Feb 08 - 02:55 PM

tripped over it and sworn at it more than likely *LOL* God Bless Her

Charlotte (no sacred cows)

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby sings Sandy Denny !!!!
From: michaelr
Date: 07 Feb 08 - 03:20 PM

AND she has one of the best bands going -- witness the Live in Leeds DVD. Mike McGoldrick, Ian Carr, Andy Cutting, John McCusker and Ewen Vernal. Better musicianship would be hard to find.

Cheers,
Michael

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby sings Sandy Denny !!!!
From: GUEST,guest
Date: 07 Feb 08 - 05:53 PM

That's a great DVD Live in Leeds. Everyone that has seen it at my place - and that's heaps of people - love it.

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby sings Sandy Denny !!!!
From: GUEST,Yorkie
Date: 07 Feb 08 - 05:58 PM

Why is it that every time someone praises Kate Rusby the women's hairy armpit brigade come out in force and try to put her down with comments like "she sounds like a 12 year old".
Why don't some of you fat, ugly, masculine-looking excuses for females shut up and go away.
You are simply jealous - admit to it!

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby sings Sandy Denny !!!!
From: GUEST,The Mole Catcher's Apprentice
Date: 07 Feb 08 - 06:08 PM

psst Yorkie boy...c'mere.......Did your parents ever teach you manner's, boy? Or is it simply that you're a wind-up merchant? Either way someone need s to box your ears for you, smarten you up a bit...

Charlotte (who's been known to do it)

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby sings Sandy Denny !!!!
From: Suegorgeous
Date: 07 Feb 08 - 08:52 PM

Molly - know what you mean, but I didn't say "ducks" to get a reaction. Someone asked the question ("what more do you want?"), and so I answered it. As I've said, I think she has a beautiful voice, it doesn't move me at all, but it would be a boring world if we all liked the same music/singers. I'm glad she delights others.

S

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby sings Sandy Denny !!!!
From: harpmolly
Date: 08 Feb 08 - 12:09 AM

Yorkie: Sheesh. Helpful much?

Sue: Sorry if I picked on you...I didn't really mean to. I had forgotten what you said earlier up the thread, which was much more reasoned. But yes, the *ducks* did elicit that reaction from me! I totally respect your opinion and am glad you're open-minded too.

I'm not one of those people (I swear) who will hear absolutely no criticism of the things or people she likes! (As I've admitted before on this very thread, even I will attest that occasionally Kate's music is a little samey, a little low-key--but again, when she hits it, I think she's incredible.) I'm really not a Kate Rusby zealot. I just don't like hearing people treat her like some sort of pop princess who doesn't deserve her success, which is the feeling I get from people often on these threads. But I don't think you were saying that at all. :)

On a related note, when I went to see the film of Sweeney Todd (one of my all-time favorite musicals), I was extremely underwhelmed by Helena Bonham-Carter's performance, which was a disappointment as I've always found her very compelling. As we were walking home I told my roommate that although I enjoyed some of the performance, I found her really too understated and didn't think she gave the role enough pizazz. My roommate's response? "You're WRONG!! She was GREAT!! I don't see how you can possibly think she wasn't AWESOME!". *facepalm* *sigh*

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby sings Sandy Denny !!!!
From: GUEST,Sally
Date: 08 Feb 08 - 03:15 PM

I shave my armpits, I am not that fat and I don't believe i'm that ugly....

Judge for yourself....Ms Lemon

Sal

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby sings Sandy Denny !!!!
From: GUEST,Ms Sourpuss
Date: 08 Feb 08 - 03:18 PM

I'm Ms Lemon btw! and you know what? I don't feel it matters, this is free speach and I believe USA is the land of the free!

Sal

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby sings Sandy Denny !!!!
From: GUEST,The Mole Catcher's Apprentice
Date: 08 Feb 08 - 03:35 PM

Kate Rusby and Sandy Denny are English, I'm half English, and I don't live in the USA. I think the same can probably be said of the majority of posters here (though this be an U.S-based website)

Charlotte (my neighbours are half English too)

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby sings Sandy Denny !!!!
From: Pete_Standing
Date: 10 Feb 08 - 04:41 PM

I have some sympathy with Jeanie's view. It's a bit like the Beeb using Down by the Sally Gardens and Uilleann pipes for the Monarch of the Glen.

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby sings Sandy Denny !!!!
From: GUEST,The Mole Catcher's Apprentice
Date: 10 Feb 08 - 05:00 PM

or playing Who Knows Where The Time Goes cocktail piano style?

Charlotte (stays away from cocktail lounges)

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby sings Sandy Denny !!!!
From: Suegorgeous
Date: 10 Feb 08 - 07:02 PM

I say.....what a jolly unpleasant chap....

Not sure Kate would welcome him as an ally..... :)

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby sings Sandy Denny !!!!
From: GUEST,howler
Date: 11 Feb 08 - 12:01 PM

Didn't she record with some boy band recently. Some crappy song written by Don Mescalin.

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby sings Sandy Denny !!!!
From: GUEST,Rogthedodge
Date: 14 Feb 08 - 04:20 PM

Yeah she did a duet with Ronan Keeting (ex of some boy band). It was pretty pants but Kate's bits were good.

-------------------------------------------------------------



Anyway no-one able to answer my question? - anyone know where I can find this song???

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby sings Sandy Denny !!!!
From: nager
Date: 14 Feb 08 - 05:23 PM

It is on Youtube

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby sings Sandy Denny !!!!
From: GUEST
Date: 15 Feb 08 - 06:54 AM

Kate Rusby singing Who Knows Where The Time Goes is on YouTube ??

Not that I can find - are you sure?

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby sings Sandy Denny !!!!
From: The Mole Catcher's Apprentice (inactive)
Date: 15 Feb 08 - 11:35 AM

there's the intro to Jam and Jerusalem, buth KR is sing The Village Green Preservation Society I think

Charlotte (specs steamed up due to the hotness of coffee)

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby sings Sandy Denny !!!!
From: GUEST,Rogthedodge
Date: 15 Feb 08 - 12:40 PM

Thanks but think there's some confusion here

'Threadcreep' eh?

This thread was started about Kate's version of WKWTTG, not VGPS which is on YouTube, Kate's new Album and all over the radio.

If anyone does track Kate doing WKWTTG down please could they post details on here

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby sings Sandy Denny !!!!
From: GUEST,The Mole Catcher's Apprentice
Date: 15 Feb 08 - 12:57 PM

My point was, sunshine, now pay attention...there isn't a full length version of Who Knows Where The Time Goes, as sung by Kate Rusby...not yet anyway...what is on You tube is what i noted in the first place
Charlotte (and there's no condusion, certainly not on my part)

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby sings Sandy Denny !!!!
From: GUEST,Rogthedodge
Date: 16 Feb 08 - 06:52 PM

Err hang on a minute 'sunshine', what's with the attitude??

You are clearly very confused.

Pay attention - this could be tricky:

I start a thread about A. Others respond about A, discuss it, even suggest it's been played on the radio (presumably 'complete') you then respond about B and get snippy about it to boot!.

Hope that's not too confusing - quite simple if you think about it / read the damned thread!

So thanks very much for your irrelevant input - it's done nothing apart from wear down your keyboard.

Seems to me you're ignorant, rude and have over-estimated your intelligence.

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby sings Sandy Denny !!!!
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 16 Feb 08 - 07:11 PM

"Sunshine" - that's a pretty mild sort of an insult! Hardly something to merit getting aerated about.

I can't imagine that Kate would have just sung a snippet of the song. No doubt at some point the full version she no doubt sang will become available.

And the post that said "It is on Youtube" wasn't from GUEST,The Mole Catcher's Apprentice , but from nager.

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby sings Sandy Denny !!!!
From: GUEST,Rogthedodge
Date: 16 Feb 08 - 09:32 PM

No probs with people making innocent mistakes (ie nager).

Snidey, snotty, attitude-laden posts are another matter however.

Being told to 'pay attention' by someone who patently hasn't read the thread is never going to go down well.

I think she got off lightly

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby sings Sandy Denny !!!!
From: nager
Date: 16 Feb 08 - 10:21 PM

Apologies: My mistake - thought the question was about Kate and Ronan Keating singing together.

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby sings Sandy Denny !!!!
From: GUEST,Pete
Date: 17 Feb 08 - 11:35 AM

Heard Steve Wright (DJ not alleged murderer)say he wasn't very keen on Village Green etc.etc. This confirmed my long held belief that the only thing wrong with the Steve Wright show is Steve Wright.I realise this has nothing to do with Sandy Denny but the opportunity for a dig at Steve Wright was not to be missed.

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby sings Sandy Denny !!!!
From: GUEST,The Mole Catcher's Apprentice
Date: 17 Feb 08 - 02:11 PM

"I think she got off lightly'forgive me for sniggering

one more time, there is NO full length version of Who Knows Where The Time Goes, by Kate Rusby....

and I've read this thread gawd knows how many times....

Charlotte (pay attention all the time, because you never know)

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby sings Sandy Denny !!!!
From: GUEST,GUEST; Ronan
Date: 17 Feb 08 - 06:06 PM

Dear Lord
Glad the topic of conversation wasn't anything more controversial - whoever thought Kate Rusby would be the one to cause us to elbow over our pints and lunge, ears steaming, at each other's necks?
It's the first time I've visited - only stopped by to find some lyrics - couldn't resist reading this thread - fascinating in a rather morbid, reality-TV kind of way. A splendid array of pathos, vitriol, tongue-in-cheekness and tribalism! Thank you!
Have a lovely week, and enjoy whatever tunes tickle your hurdy-gurdies.
Ronan Keating

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby sings Sandy Denny !!!!
From: Suegorgeous
Date: 17 Feb 08 - 07:02 PM

Coo! :0

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby sings Sandy Denny !!!!
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 17 Feb 08 - 08:52 PM

Anything and everything is controversial if our mood runs that way.

"Good morning"

"What's good about it?"

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby sings Sandy Denny !!!!
From: GUEST,Rogthedodge
Date: 17 Feb 08 - 09:06 PM

Listen missy, you can spout '"I think she got off lightly'forgive me for sniggering

one more time, there is NO full length version of Who Knows Where The Time Goes, by Kate Rusby....

and I've read this thread gawd knows how many times....

Charlotte (pay attention all the time, because you never know)' all you damned well like.

I asked about 1 song you responded about another, if you're too damned dumb to understand that simple fact then you really shouldn't be near electricity unsupervised.

So there's no full length version of WKWTTG by Kate, at all?, ever? She recorded just one 50 second chorus?? And you know this for a certain fact?, from what source?

You started with the irrelevant posts, you started with the attitude and now you know something 'for a fact' - other posters seem to contradict you but you know best - eh?

TBH I originally thought you were confused but now I think you're just plain stupid (and rude)

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby sings Sandy Denny !!!!
From: rabbitlegs
Date: 18 Feb 08 - 05:33 AM

Seems to me Ronan's right. How come Kate gets so much stick, are we all scared someone else will hear her and be tempted to dig deeper and discover traditional music. How dare they! They may even come across Sandy Denny's work and form their own opinions and be all the happier for it.
Anyway about Steve Wright... great show Steve.

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby sings Sandy Denny !!!!
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 18 Feb 08 - 08:51 AM

Great post Ronan, you nailed us folkie-bovva-boys in one! It's amazing what damage a well-aimed Aran sweater or sandal can do! :-)
But some of us love Kate and wish her every success in whatever she chooses to do - were not all po-faced mealy-mouths! LOL!
You have a good week too.
S:0)

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby sings Sandy Denny !!!!
From: GUEST
Date: 18 Feb 08 - 10:52 AM

From an official source 'close to Kate':

Recorded especially for the show because they (and I:) ) asked.

No forthcoming album for it to be included on but as there's been loads of interest and it's the 30 year anniversary of Sandy's death it may well be available as download special from Pure.

If/when it is I'll post details on here.

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby sings Sandy Denny !!!!
From: GUEST,Ronan
Date: 18 Feb 08 - 02:13 PM

Thanks Mr Woods - couldn't resist popping back in (ah, the slippery slope)...Well I suppose I should nail my colours to the mast - it was Kate and Kathryn's album borrowed from a library in about 1999 that set me off on the folk path, which has lumped Andrew Cronshaw, Ola Backstrom, JPP and a whole brace of other sandal-hurlers and rainbow-guitar-strap wielders into my CD collection - and led me into halls full of whirling corduroy (and Spiers and Boden gigs). I have to say that my life is the better for it!

For those whose underpants are still on fire with the Rusby Wrath - please beat your broadswords into banjos and give us something to hoe down about ;)

Lots of love

Mr Keating

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby sings Sandy Denny !!!!
From: The Vulgar Boatman
Date: 18 Feb 08 - 05:45 PM

Steady on there, you can't just go appeasing this grumpy lot of buggers you know. The required format for Mudcat debate is as follows: flat statement, followed by flat contradiction, followed by personal abuse...
For the record though, and I know not why I gather such nonsense in me travels, except that I've done gigs near all of them, there is no Loose Women's Institute - it's actually, I kid you not, the "Womens' Institute of Loose" and resides near Maidstone. Similarly, there's one in the Essex village of Ugley, which rejoices in the name "Womens' Institute, Ugley Branch". Faint hearts. However, near Canterbury they are less subtle. How about the "Rough Common Womens' Institute". Right on sisters.

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby sings Sandy Denny !!!!
From: Cath
Date: 18 Feb 08 - 05:50 PM

But there is an Idle Working Men's Club!

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby sings Sandy Denny !!!!
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 18 Feb 08 - 05:55 PM

It's said that the women from Ugley sometimes get together with the men from Nasty, a village just a few miles distant, in Herts.

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby sings Sandy Denny !!!!
From: mandotim
Date: 19 Feb 08 - 05:07 AM

There is undoubtedly room for Kate Rusby in the acoustic-ish music world, and I'd love to see her go from strength to strength. I can appreciate what her fans see in her; there is a sense of vulnerability and delicacy that can be very appealing. Other singers have had this; remember Sandie Shaw? Nobody's idea of a singer, but she had a magnetic quality when performing. I don't like Kate Rusby's voice much, too soulless and dispassionate for me. I'd love her to let it out sometime, and sing as if she really felt what she was singing.
I think examples are useful; try listening to Mary-Chapin Carpenter singing her song 'The Moon and St Christopher'. The first time I heard this was on a video, with just a guitar and Nanci Griffith singing harmony. M-C C's vocal was so raw, compelling and emotional that there were tears rolling down Nanci's face as she tried to hold herself together enough to sing the chorus. Then listen to Kate Rusby's version, which comes across as a pretty but unemotional acoustic pop song. It's not the musicality, or even the presentation that is the issue for me; it's the apparent emotional detachment.
IMHO, of course.
Tim

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby sings Sandy Denny !!!!
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 19 Feb 08 - 05:40 AM

The place of overt emotionality in singers is something on which there is perhaps the widest diversion of tastes. I tend to think it gets in the way. I think the emotional impact of of a song can actually be a lot more powerful with a singer who is, on the face if it less involved - "emotionally detached" as mandotim puts it.

I'm not laying this down as a rule for all songs, or suggesting that there is anything wrong with people having a diametrically opposed preference. But this way of singing shouldn't be seen as a failing on the part of a singer, but rather as a deliberate choice, and one which is in keeping with many/most traditional singing in the British Isles.

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby sings Sandy Denny !!!!
From: mandotim
Date: 19 Feb 08 - 05:48 AM

Hi McG of H!
I agree, but I think to some extent it also depends on the song. Some songs are best delivered 'deadpan', whereas others work best with passion and emotion. I agree that some songs have enough impact on their own without the singer adding anything; some mining disaster songs spring to mind.
As far as the singer goes, if there are a range of songs in their repertoire, I think the singer should be able to deliver the amount of emotion appropriate to the song (as Sandy Denny could). Kate Rusby seems to have limitations in this respect; perhaps deliberate, perhaps not, but I find most of her work uninvolving for that reason. One thing though; she has excellent taste in backing musicians!
Tim

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby sings Sandy Denny !!!!
From: GUEST,The Mole Catcher's Apprentice
Date: 19 Feb 08 - 11:22 AM

Actually "Rodge"...I hope there never is a Kate Rusby version, and by the way..sunny Jim, are you allowed out of the house on your own?*LOL*

Charlotte (far from stupid)

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby sings Sandy Denny !!!!
From: GUEST,Sparkles
Date: 19 Feb 08 - 12:20 PM

OK Charlotte, we see you. We hear you. Give it a rest now, OK? You've made your point. Several times over.

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby sings Sandy Denny !!!!
From: The Mole Catcher's Apprentice (inactive)
Date: 19 Feb 08 - 12:24 PM

Appears that I had to make the point several times over, and believe me it's not something I enjoy having to do.So, please, give it a rest will you?

Charlotte (losing her patience, which does take alot)

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby sings Sandy Denny !!!!
From: Gene Burton
Date: 19 Feb 08 - 12:46 PM

Now, now, dear; calm down. Deep breaths, and (all together, now):

"Kumbayah, my lord, kumbayah...etc., etc".

Makes me think, actually; I think the next logical step is a thread entitled Kate Rusby sings Kumbayah...aka The Double Cheeseburger (LOL)

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby sings Sandy Denny !!!!
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 19 Feb 08 - 12:51 PM

Patronising prat.

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby sings Sandy Denny !!!!
From: irishenglish
Date: 19 Feb 08 - 12:55 PM

ENOUGH EVERYBODY. She sang it, in some form it will be watchable, or listenable, or perhaps she will make it a regular song on tour. If you don't like Kate, good, if you love Kate, good, if you like her and wish she would go outside the box a little (my position, btw), good.

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby sings Sandy Denny !!!!
From: Gene Burton
Date: 19 Feb 08 - 01:00 PM

High praise indeed! (chuckle)

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby sings Sandy Denny !!!!
From: The Mole Catcher's Apprentice (inactive)
Date: 19 Feb 08 - 01:01 PM

I made my point, I stick by it, and if the usual suspects don't like it...ignore me.

Charlotte (are you sitting comfortably....? Then I'll begin)

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby sings Sandy Denny !!!!
From: the lemonade lady
Date: 18 Mar 08 - 07:58 PM

"Kate Rusby seems to have limitations in this respect; perhaps deliberate, perhaps not, but I find most of her work uninvolving for that reason. One thing though; she has excellent taste in backing musicians!"

Tim you are so right, I couldn't agree more.

Sal (enjoying what Sparkles has to say)

Subject: RE: Kate Rusby sings Sandy Denny !!!!
From: GUEST,Mick
Date: 22 Apr 08 - 05:22 AM

WKWTTG by Kate Rusby is available on itunes now