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Origin: Away, Away with Rum, by Gum

DigiTrad:
AWAY WITH RUM
AWAY WITH RUM (5)(SONG OF THE TEMPERANCE UNION)
AWAY WITH RUM (more verses)
DEMON FRUITCAKE
THE NORTH ATLANTIC SQUADRON
THE SONG OF THE TEMPERANCE UNION


Les in Chorlton 14 Feb 08 - 10:38 AM
GUEST,Obie 14 Feb 08 - 10:48 AM
Mr Happy 14 Feb 08 - 11:42 AM
Les in Chorlton 14 Feb 08 - 11:48 AM
GUEST,The Mole Catcher's naughtycal Apprentice 14 Feb 08 - 12:02 PM
Joe Offer 14 Feb 08 - 12:08 PM
Les in Chorlton 14 Feb 08 - 12:10 PM
Joe Offer 14 Feb 08 - 12:14 PM
GUEST,The Mole Catcher's North Atlantic Apprentice 14 Feb 08 - 12:16 PM
GUEST 14 Feb 08 - 12:52 PM
Les in Chorlton 14 Feb 08 - 01:08 PM
Herga Kitty 14 Feb 08 - 04:03 PM
Uke 14 Feb 08 - 06:56 PM
r.padgett 15 Feb 08 - 04:55 AM
Les in Chorlton 15 Feb 08 - 06:53 AM
r.padgett 15 Feb 08 - 10:30 AM
Rapparee 15 Feb 08 - 11:22 AM
Les in Chorlton 15 Feb 08 - 11:41 AM
r.padgett 15 Feb 08 - 11:48 AM
Rapparee 15 Feb 08 - 09:12 PM
Rapparee 15 Feb 08 - 09:13 PM
Susan of DT 15 Feb 08 - 10:05 PM
Joe Offer 16 Feb 08 - 12:43 AM
Les in Chorlton 20 Feb 08 - 11:12 AM
Joe Offer 20 Feb 08 - 01:15 PM
Les in Chorlton 20 Feb 08 - 01:18 PM
Snuffy 20 Feb 08 - 07:13 PM
Rowan 20 Feb 08 - 10:43 PM
Rapparee 21 Feb 08 - 09:24 AM
Les in Chorlton 21 Feb 08 - 09:44 AM
pavane 21 Feb 08 - 09:47 AM
Les in Chorlton 21 Feb 08 - 10:14 AM
pavane 21 Feb 08 - 10:20 AM
pavane 21 Feb 08 - 10:27 AM
Les in Chorlton 21 Feb 08 - 10:29 AM
Rapparee 21 Feb 08 - 11:37 AM
r.padgett 21 Feb 08 - 02:56 PM
Rowan 21 Feb 08 - 04:48 PM
Scotus 21 Feb 08 - 08:46 PM
Joe_F 21 Feb 08 - 11:50 PM
Les in Chorlton 22 Feb 08 - 05:38 AM
GUEST,Bob Coltman 22 Feb 08 - 07:06 AM
Les in Chorlton 22 Feb 08 - 07:17 AM
GUEST,Bob Coltman 22 Feb 08 - 07:19 AM
GUEST,Bob Coltman 22 Feb 08 - 07:38 AM
GUEST,Bob Coltman 22 Feb 08 - 08:39 AM
GUEST,Bob Coltman 22 Feb 08 - 09:06 AM
GUEST,Bob Coltman 22 Feb 08 - 09:17 AM
Les in Chorlton 01 Mar 08 - 02:32 PM
The Mole Catcher's Apprentice (inactive) 01 Mar 08 - 04:58 PM
Les in Chorlton 01 Mar 08 - 05:15 PM
GUEST,Bob Coltman 02 Mar 08 - 01:13 AM
Les in Chorlton 02 Mar 08 - 06:11 AM
Flash Company 02 Mar 08 - 10:14 AM
Les in Chorlton 02 Mar 08 - 11:22 AM
Les in Chorlton 02 Mar 08 - 11:24 AM
vectis 02 Mar 08 - 12:01 PM
Les in Chorlton 02 Mar 08 - 01:05 PM
Stringsinger 02 Mar 08 - 01:15 PM
Les in Chorlton 02 Mar 08 - 01:19 PM
GUEST,Bob Coltman 02 Mar 08 - 04:13 PM
Uke 02 Mar 08 - 04:33 PM
Uke 02 Mar 08 - 05:19 PM
The Fooles Troupe 03 Mar 08 - 12:27 AM
vectis 03 Mar 08 - 09:51 AM
Flash Company 03 Mar 08 - 09:56 AM
GUEST,TJ in San Diego 03 Mar 08 - 06:00 PM
Uke 03 Mar 08 - 07:35 PM
GUEST,Willliam Hite 14 Apr 08 - 07:28 PM
Uke 04 May 08 - 09:36 PM
Les in Chorlton 05 May 08 - 02:41 AM
Uke 05 May 08 - 06:08 PM
Les in Chorlton 06 May 08 - 07:57 AM
GUEST,Bob Coltman 18 Jul 08 - 06:42 AM
Les in Chorlton 21 Jul 08 - 01:49 AM
Jim Dixon 11 Apr 09 - 02:01 AM
Les in Chorlton 11 Apr 09 - 04:45 AM
Charley Noble 11 Apr 09 - 12:55 PM
Les in Chorlton 02 Jan 11 - 08:02 AM
Les in Chorlton 02 Jan 11 - 12:35 PM
Les in Chorlton 02 Jan 11 - 12:36 PM
MtheGM 02 Jan 11 - 01:42 PM
GUEST,mert proctor 29 Mar 11 - 11:35 PM
r.padgett 13 Jun 12 - 04:46 AM
Bill D 13 Jun 12 - 11:08 AM
Amos 13 Jun 12 - 01:16 PM
Bill D 13 Jun 12 - 01:29 PM
Q 13 Jun 12 - 01:33 PM
Uke 13 Jun 12 - 05:54 PM
Uke 14 Jun 12 - 04:29 AM
Les in Chorlton 18 Jun 12 - 11:17 AM
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Subject: Origin - Away away with rum
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 14 Feb 08 - 10:38 AM

Away, away with rum by gum
With rum by gum, with rum by gum
Away, away with rum by gum
It's the song of the salvation Army.

I first heard this song around 1964 and had forgotten all about it until the other day. The L & R has lots of references and dozens of verses but no clear idea of where it comes from.

By the sheer number of verses many people must have contributed but I guess somebody started it off.

Any ideas?


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Subject: RE: Origin - Away away with rum
From: GUEST,Obie
Date: 14 Feb 08 - 10:48 AM

Now that's what I call a real tear jerker!


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Subject: RE: Origin - Away away with rum
From: Mr Happy
Date: 14 Feb 08 - 11:42 AM

.........it's only the black ones that make me go mad!'


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Subject: RE: Origin - Away away with rum
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 14 Feb 08 - 11:48 AM

So far so erm, good then?


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Subject: RE: Origin - Away away with rum
From: GUEST,The Mole Catcher's naughtycal Apprentice
Date: 14 Feb 08 - 12:02 PM

It reminds me very much of this

Charlotte (all at sea)


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Subject: RE: Origin - Away away with rum
From: Joe Offer
Date: 14 Feb 08 - 12:08 PM

Indubitably astute, Charlotte - I added The North Atlantic Squadron to the crosslinks above (your link got it from the Digital Tradition).
-Joe Offer-
Here's the etry from the Traditional Ballad Index:

Rum By Gum (Temperance Union Song)

DESCRIPTION: "We're coming, we're coming, our brave little band, On the right side of temperance we do take our stand.... Away, away with rum, by gum, The song of the Temperance Union." Various verses on the value of sobriety
AUTHOR: unknown
EARLIEST DATE: 1941 (Randolph)
KEYWORDS: drink political nonballad
FOUND IN: US(So)
REFERENCES (4 citations):
Randolph 317, "Temperance Song" (1 text, 1 tune -- a fragment without the chorus)
Pankake-PHCFSB, pp. 6-7, "Away With Rum" (1 text, 1 tune)
Silber-FSWB, p. 233, "Away With Rum" (1 text)
DT, (AWAYRUM*) (AWAYRUM2*) (AWAYRUM3*) (AWAYRUM4*) (AWAYRUM5*)

Roud #12765
Notes: Warning: All the Digital Tradition versions are parodies of one sort or another (AWAYRUM5 is 35 verses, almost all silly, almost all modern). Many singers today sing this as a joke. But the roots of this piece are almost certainly serious (compare Randolph's version). - RBW
File: R317

Go to the Ballad Search form
Go to the Ballad Index Instructions
Go to the Bibiography
Go to the Discography

The Ballad Index Copyright 2008 by Robert B. Waltz and David G. Engle.


Roud lists only the song from the Pankake's Prairie Home Companion Folk Song Book.


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Subject: RE: Origin - Away away with rum
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 14 Feb 08 - 12:10 PM

Thanks Charlotte,

This song "The North Atlantic Squadron" pops up in the search for Away with rum but the verses don't scan to the tune that I know for 'Rum' and it is quite clearly a different song.


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Subject: RE: Origin - Away away with rum
From: Joe Offer
Date: 14 Feb 08 - 12:14 PM

I dunno, Les. Listen to the MIDI - I'd say it's more-or-less the same tune.
-Joe-


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Subject: RE: Origin - Away away with rum
From: GUEST,The Mole Catcher's North Atlantic Apprentice
Date: 14 Feb 08 - 12:16 PM

"The North Atlantic Squadron"
been known to play a verse or two on the piano *LOL*


Joe, I googled "North Atlantic..." and the Digital Tradition link was the first up..thanks for adding it here as well.

Charlotte (doesn't own a fife or drum, but piano doesn't scan into the lyrics)


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Subject: RE: Origin - Away away with rum
From: GUEST
Date: 14 Feb 08 - 12:52 PM

A somewhat earlier version (I heard it in the late 1940s) was called "Demon Fruitcake". The chorus was:

Away, away, with rum, by gum
It's the song of the Salvation Army.

The verses were:
We're marching, we're marching our brave little band
Against Demon Fruitcake we'll all take our stand

cho:

Oh can you imagine an awfuller sight
Than the man who eats fruitcake until he gets tight

cho:

The man who eats fruitcake goes down to his death
With the odor of raisins and rum on his breath

cho:

The man who eats fruitcake lives a terrible life
He mistreats his children and he beats his wife.

cho:

The man who eats fruitcake goes down in disgrace
As he rolls in the gutter with crumbs on his face.

cho


    Note from Joe: the Guest who posted this message was either Dick or Susan of the Digital Tradition, not logged in (I'm guessing it was Dick). See the link above to the DT entry, "Demon Fruitcake."
    Thanks, Dick (or Susan).
    -Joe Offer-


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Subject: RE: Origin - Away away with rum
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 14 Feb 08 - 01:08 PM

The song appears (?) on the Mike Harding album, "Mrs 'ardin's Kid.

This is what Mike gives for it's origin:

"Learnt from a Barnsley Lighthouse Keeper called Aurthur Parrot who was a onetime Salvation Army Provisional adept at feeding Brewers drayhorses with senna pods. I once knew a Salvation Army girl, she'd got a square navel through carrying the flag without a pole bucket. It didn't look nice but it was great for putting salt in when we were having fish and chips in bed. Thanks to Frank Duffy."

Whilst I have no reason to doubt any of this, I suspect that Frank Duffy had more to do with the song than the alleged Aurthur Parrot.


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Subject: RE: Origin - Away away with rum
From: Herga Kitty
Date: 14 Feb 08 - 04:03 PM

It was in the Forest School Camps songbook that I acquired at camp 40 years ago (and still possess), and is still in their online version....

Kitty

SONG OF THE SALVATION ARMY

We're coming, we're coming, our brave little band

To drive all the fruit cake from this wicked land

Away, away with rum, by gum

With rum, by gum, with rum, by gum

Away, away with rum, by gum

That's the song of the Salvation Army

We're going to ban fruit cake, it's chock full of rum

Just one single bite puts a man on the bum

Away, away with rum...

A man who eats fruit cake is a terrible disgrace

He rolls in the gutter with crumbs on his face

Away, away with rum...

Can you imagine a more horrible sight

Than a man who eats fruit cake until he is tight?

Away, away with rum...

A man who eats fruit cake leads a terrible life

He's cruel to his children and beats up his wife

Away, away with rum...

A man who eats fruit cake dies a horrible death

With the odour of raisins and rum on his breath

Away, away with rum, by gum

With rum, by gum, with rum, by gum

Away, away with rum, by gum

That's the song of the Salvation Army


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Subject: RE: Origin - Away away with rum
From: Uke
Date: 14 Feb 08 - 06:56 PM

Just a wee comment on the MIDIS for Away with Rum and North Atlantic Squadron.

Joe, to my ears these don't really sound the same. Either that, or I'm getting mixed up with all the MIDIs.

The 'Away with Rum' MIDI is the tune for the verses only. For me, it bears something of a resemblance to the verse tune for 'Cigarettes and Whisky and Wild, Wild Women'.

The 'North Atlantic Squadron' MIDI is the tune for both verse and chorus of that song, and is pretty much the same as the chorus for 'Away with Rum'.


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Subject: RE: Origin - Away away with rum
From: r.padgett
Date: 15 Feb 08 - 04:55 AM

Heard Mike Harding sing this many times and I have it in "Reprints from Singout" bought many years ago

Barnsley is 70 miles from the sea but Gawber Lighthouse and Pogmoor [Poggie] pier are well known here

Arthur Parrot ~ well know to Dave Burland I believe!

Ray


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Subject: RE: Origin - Away away with rum
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 15 Feb 08 - 06:53 AM

Ray, do Reprints give any origin and what, prey, is the relationship between AP and DB?


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Subject: RE: Origin - Away away with rum
From: r.padgett
Date: 15 Feb 08 - 10:30 AM

AP is probably a figment of MH and DB's vivid imagination at the time!
Will have a look at Sing Out!

Ray


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Subject: RE: Origin - Away away with rum
From: Rapparee
Date: 15 Feb 08 - 11:22 AM

It was recorded by the Chad Mitchell Trio and is printed in the "Chad Mitchell Trio Songbook."

I'll try to remember to check and post the lyrics from that when I get home from work.


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Subject: RE: Origin - Away away with rum
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 15 Feb 08 - 11:41 AM

Thanks Repair. I have found lots of verses perhaps as many as 40, some I understand and some I don't. It is clearly a living tradition, but it would be good to know who set it on it's way

Cheers

Les


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Subject: RE: Origin - Away away with rum
From: r.padgett
Date: 15 Feb 08 - 11:48 AM

I am covered in dust and cobwebs and not been able to trace the Sing Out volume which contains this, I have about 5!! so far

I have only "Folk Singers Word Book" which contains 3 verses! and has no notes, largely I believe based on Sing Out!

So best of luck in the provenace dept

Ray


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Subject: RE: Origin - Away away with rum
From: Rapparee
Date: 15 Feb 08 - 09:12 PM

According to the The Mitchell Trio Songbook (Chicago: Quadrangle Books, 1964), p. 80:

The was originally English. When it came here it was a parody satirizing the South Asian Army. People didn't think the South Asian Army deserved quite that bad, so the changed the focus to the Temperance Union.

I can't find any indication as to who did the notes to the songs, but it was probably one of the Trio.

The "Temperance Union" mentioned in the song probably refers to the Women's Christian Temperance Union (WCTU) which still exists and is active today. I can't find anything on the "South Asian Army", which simply means I can't find anything and not that it's a bad reference.


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Subject: RE: Origin - Away away with rum
From: Rapparee
Date: 15 Feb 08 - 09:13 PM

By the way, it's listed in the Songbook as Rum by Gum.


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Subject: RE: Origin - Away away with rum
From: Susan of DT
Date: 15 Feb 08 - 10:05 PM

Rapaire - that is Salvation Army, another temperance charity organization, still around.


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Subject: RE: Origin - Away away with rum
From: Joe Offer
Date: 16 Feb 08 - 12:43 AM

Hmmmm. "South Asian Army"? I like that....

I learned it as "song of the Temperance Union." In my experience, modern Sally Anns (Salvation Army representatives) spend more time feeding the homeless, rather than combatting Demon Rum.

I guess I'd never played the tune from the Digital Tradition. It isn't the tune I know at all. I've transcribed the tune from Sing Out! (except that I raised "think" a third on "because we do think"). The chorus is the way Bikel sings it - I learned the Chad Mitchell Trio version, but long before I ever heard the Chad Mitchell recording.

Click to play

-Joe-


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Subject: RE: Origin - Away away with rum
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 20 Feb 08 - 11:12 AM

Looks we have a hit a brick wall on this one?


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Subject: ADD Version: Temperance Song
From: Joe Offer
Date: 20 Feb 08 - 01:15 PM

Never say "die," Les. I'm still of the opinion that the song must come from the "North Atlantic Squadron" series of songs. I don't think we've found the missing link to trace the origins of this song, though. The Chad Mitchell Trio recorded the song as I know it in 1961 on their Mighty Day on Campus album, and Theodore Bikel recorded a version with what sounds like a Brooklyn accent on A Folksinger's Choice in 1964. It was published in Sing Out! Reprints in 1963.
Dick Greenhaus remembers "Demon Fruitcake" from the late 1940's, so that takes it back a good bit. Googling for "Demon Fruitcake" brings up lots of entries, but I think they all come from the Digital Tradition, with its spelling "immagine" (an occasional spellling error can have advantages).

Thern there's this from Randolph's Ozark Folksongs (Volume 2, #317):

Temperance Song

We're coming, we're coming, our brave little band,
On the right side of temperance we loyally stand,
We don't use terbacker, for this is what we think,
Them that does use it most always does drink.


Sung by Miss Rose O'Neill - Day, Missouri, Sept 2, 1941. Learned about forty years ago.

That fragment is all Randolph got. Frustrating, eh?



Click to play

-Joe-
At St. Francis Seminary and School of Pastoral Ministry (my Alma Mater) we used to chant this at the end of "Rum By Gum":
    Rooty toot, toot;
    Rooty toot, toot.
    We are the boys from the Institute.
    We don't smoke and we don't chew;
    And we don't go with girls that do.
    (Our class won the Bible.)


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Subject: RE: Origin - Away away with rum
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 20 Feb 08 - 01:18 PM

Thanks Joe,

"We're coming, we're coming, our brave little band,
On the right side of temperance we loyally stand,
We don't use terbacker, for this is what we think,
Them that does use it most always does drink.

Sung by Miss Rose O'Neill - Day, Missouri, Sept 2, 1941. Learned about forty years ago."

This is definitely the forbearer, does it ring a bell with anyone else?


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Subject: RE: Origin - Away away with rum
From: Snuffy
Date: 20 Feb 08 - 07:13 PM

Are you dry? Are you dry?
Or are you bound for hell where you will fry?
We are the little troupe
Who will make the brewers droop
When they hear our battle cry
Are you dry?


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Subject: RE: Origin - Away away with rum
From: Rowan
Date: 20 Feb 08 - 10:43 PM

The 'North Atlantic Squadron' MIDI is the tune for both verse and chorus of that song, and is pretty much the same as the chorus for 'Away with Rum'.

Joe's contention that the song must come from the "North Atlantic Squadron" series of songs has a fair amount going for it; it wouldn't be the first song with different tunes for the verse and chorus where the tune for the chorus became subsequently attached to a later song.

1963/4 seems to be the earliest date anyone on this thread has yet put to 'Away with Rum' under its various names. The earliest date I can remember singing it (I picked it up aurally rather than from texts) was in the early 60s ('61-'64) during parties at Melbourne Uni. While is had only about seven verses (at that time and in that place) it rapidly acquired extra home-grown verses that melded with other versions at universities around Oz. But the temperance organisation in the chorus in Oz (within my hearing) was always the Salvation Army.

But I can't yet shed any light on earlier transformations/origins.

Cheers, Rowan


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Subject: RE: Origin - Away away with rum
From: Rapparee
Date: 21 Feb 08 - 09:24 AM

Joe points out that the Mitchell Trio recorded it in 1961, so it had to be around prior to that.

I suspect that the group was changed from "Salvation Army" to "Temperance Union" to avoid annoying the SA. The WCTU was (and is) considered fairly toothless, although I wouldn't want to annoy them either. Being bashed by little old ladies with parasols and handbags isn't my idea of a good time.


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Subject: RE: Origin - Away away with rum
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 21 Feb 08 - 09:44 AM

At the risk of repeating things endlessly:

"We're coming, we're coming, our brave little band,
On the right side of temperance we loyally stand,
We don't use terbacker, for this is what we think,
Them that does use it most always does drink.

Sung by Miss Rose O'Neill - Day, Missouri, Sept 2, 1941. Learned about forty years ago."

This fits Away, away rather well and on the face of it takes us back to the turn of the Century!

I suspect the move from Temperance to Salvation could be when the song came to the UK. We don't know much about the Temperance Union but we sure the Sally Army


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Subject: RE: Origin - Away away with rum
From: pavane
Date: 21 Feb 08 - 09:47 AM

My mother knew it from her youth, so 1930's to 40's, I expect.

Slightly different, e.g.

CAN YOU IMAGINE the shame and disgrace
To be found in the gutter with crumbs on your face


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Subject: RE: Origin - Away away with rum
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 21 Feb 08 - 10:14 AM

Excellent pavane, do you recall the chorus?

Cheers

Les


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Subject: RE: Origin - Away away with rum
From: pavane
Date: 21 Feb 08 - 10:20 AM

Same as already posted: (Only one word different from yours)

Away, away with rum, by gum
With rum, by gum, with rum, by gum
Away, away with rum, by gum
That's the song of the Salvation Army


I have remembered the whole verse now:

We never eat biscuits, cos biscuits have yeast
And one little bite turns a man to a beast
Can you imagine the shame and disgrace
To be found in the gutter with crumbs on your face


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Subject: RE: Origin - Away away with rum
From: pavane
Date: 21 Feb 08 - 10:27 AM

Do I recall Diz Disley singing it, in the 60's?


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Subject: RE: Origin - Away away with rum
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 21 Feb 08 - 10:29 AM

Could be, he had a great collection of funny songs.


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Subject: RE: Origin - Away away with rum
From: Rapparee
Date: 21 Feb 08 - 11:37 AM

I believe (I'm at work) that the CMT sang it as:

We never eat cookies because they have yeast
And one little bite turns a man to a beast
Can you imagine a sadder disgrace
Than a man in the gutter with crumbs on his face?

Also

We never eat fruitcake because it has rum
And one little bite turns a man to a bum
Can you imagine a sorrier sight
Than a man eating fruitcake until he gets tight?

At some point I also ran across

We don't approve back rubs, we think they're a crime
We'll alway oppose them in song and in rhyme
We just can't approve back rubs, they're much worse than gin
When you think of the alcohol absorbed through your skin.


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Subject: RE: Origin - Away away with rum
From: r.padgett
Date: 21 Feb 08 - 02:56 PM

These I certainly heard in English version from Mike Harding

and the one about alcohol rubbed on "tutsies" = toes/feet being absorbed by osmosis from MH himself

Ray


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Subject: RE: Origin - Away away with rum
From: Rowan
Date: 21 Feb 08 - 04:48 PM

Rapaire's chorus and the first two of the three verses he gives were word for word as sung in Oz in the 60s.

Sorry Les, if I gave you the impression I had ignored the 1941 date but I thought you'd be interested in the possibility of tracking transformations as well as origins and, obviously, didn't make that quite clear.

None of the versions above or in the DT include one from Oz in the early 60s where, before metrication, the standard sized glass for a beer was 7 fl.ozs.

Oh we don't eat trifle 'cos trifle has sherry
and one bit of trifle will make a man merry;
oh can you imagine the day comes to pass
they start serving trifle in a seven ounce glass

There may be others but, it was a long time ago and my books are in storage.

Cheers, Rowan


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Subject: RE: Origin - Away away with rum
From: Scotus
Date: 21 Feb 08 - 08:46 PM

I definitely remember Hamish Imlach singing this in the mid to late 60s. He used the biscuits verse for sure.

Jack


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Subject: RE: Origin - Away away with rum
From: Joe_F
Date: 21 Feb 08 - 11:50 PM

The filkers, who must have added a thousand stanzas by now, have:

We don't travel by rail -- they put club cars on trains.
It's like giving the devil the keys to your brains.
Oh, is there a sorrier tale you can tell
Than to leave from South Station and end up in hell?


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Subject: RE: Origin - Away away with rum
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 22 Feb 08 - 05:38 AM

It's a bit like some wild child that has run away from home. It's been charging around the world having a great time! I think I will join it


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Subject: RE: Origin - Away away with rum
From: GUEST,Bob Coltman
Date: 22 Feb 08 - 07:06 AM

"Away With Rum" was in wide circulation among college outing clubs in the early (I think) and certainly mid-1950s.

I first heard it from "Brigger" -- Bill Briggs, then itinerant around the Dartmouth campus. He never told me where he got it, but Brigger had many strange sources, including a wide acquaintance of singers the country over, plus chapbooks and 1940s phonograph records.

He and I included "Away With Rum" as part of our 1957 edition of "Crud 'N Corruption," a mimeographed collection of folk and novelty songs handed out among college singers in and around New England, so the full version was informally in print at least by then.

Brigger's source could not have been Rose O'Neill's 1941 version as sung in Randolph, Vol II, p 414. She sang only the first verse, and her tune was different from Brigger's.

What's notable about Ms O'Neill's version, which she called "Temperance Song," is that she says she learned it about 40 years ago. That would put the song's time of origin around 1900. Which means that the earliest occurrence as given in the Trad Ballad Index is 40 years after the fact -- and only covers the first verse of some half dozen or more.

(Funny thing, I could have sworn it was printed in Dick and Beth Best's IOCA Song Fest. But I checked my copy and it isn't there (so much for memory cells). The Brigger version in "Crud 'N Corruption" may thus have been the first printing -- but of course that wasn't published, just informally circulated as a songbook to "chubbers.")*
                                  *Hikers, campers, skiers, climbers, road bums.

The original must have been either a serious temperance song or a satirical one, probably professionally composed and published, between, say, 1890 and 1905. That would put it in the heyday of the Temperance Movement that achieved Prohibition in 1919 with the Volstead Act.

Fascinating ... I had no clue this song had such a mysterious background till I started looking into it.

Bob


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Subject: RE: Origin - Away away with rum
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 22 Feb 08 - 07:17 AM

Bob, thanks so much such a fine seam of information.It's clear that this song has had a life of its own for a long time.

I had a good time in New England, Summer of 1970, working at Camp Greylock in the Berkshire Hills. Tried my best to leave "Nobody likes me everybody hates me just 'cause I eat worms" with all who attended Greylock. we sang in some local bars and had a good day at Fox Hollow Festival,

Cheers

Les


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Subject: RE: Origin - Away away with rum
From: GUEST,Bob Coltman
Date: 22 Feb 08 - 07:19 AM

Seeing the more modern versions of "Away With Rum" in the DT, which feature many newly written verses, I thought it might be useful to put in Brigger's core version as I remember it. These were the only verses I ever heard sung in the 50s, either by Brigger or others.

AWAY WITH RUM

As sung by Brigger, 1955. He sang all the verses straight through if I recall correctly, using the chorus only at the end.

We're coming, we're coming, our brave little band,
On the right side of temperance we now take our stand,
We don't use tobacco because we do think
That the people who use it are likely to drink,
We never eat fruit cake, it's chock full of rum,
And the least little bite turns a man to a bum!
Have you ever seen a more pitiful sight
Than a man eating fruit cake until he gets tight?
Have you ever seen a more public disgrace
Than a man in the gutter with crumbs on his face?

CHO   Away, away with rum by gum, with rum by gum, with rum by gum
          Away, away with rum by gum, that's the song of the Salvation Army.


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Subject: RE: Origin - Away away with rum
From: GUEST,Bob Coltman
Date: 22 Feb 08 - 07:38 AM

Harrigan and Braham may have originated at least the refrain in an 1882 vaudeville song ... though the verses are different:

SALVATION ARMY

Words by Edward Harrigan, music by Dave Braham, 1882

Oh, Cleveland and Folger they went out to fight,
And Cleveland hit Folger with all his might,
The winner he lives in Buffalo,
And the loser's joined the Salvation Army, oh!

CHO
Away, away with rum and gum!
Here we come, hear the drum!
A reg'lar proper lum tum-tum,
As we join'd the army, oh!

I'll give you a pointer that's on the square,
The guy in the middle's a millionaire,
He does this for fun, 'cause he's stuck on the show,
And he follows the Salvation Army, oh!

Ol' Jonahy he lived away down in a whale,
In a little back room very close to the tail,
Don't give it away, for he's out on bail,
And he sings in the Salvation Army, oh!

Spinola he started a rousing big scheme
To heat up the city and county by steam,
He's block'd up the streets I would have you to know,
And he'll blockade the Salvation Army, oh!


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Subject: RE: Origin - Away away with rum
From: GUEST,Bob Coltman
Date: 22 Feb 08 - 08:39 AM

I think the verses may be a parody of a hymn -- just a guess. The tune as a whole sounds hymn-like, and the phrase "we're coming, we're coming, our brave little band" especially so.

The only occurrence of "we're coming, we're coming" I've been able to turn up occurs in the following 1844 anti-slavery hymn. The meter scans right -- but I can't find the melody "Kinloch of Kinloch" in my (admittedly limited} tune sources. Can anyone help? There's a slim chance it might be the tune to "Away With Rum!"

WE'RE COMING! WE'RE COMING.

AIR--Kinloch of Kinloch. From Geo. W. Clark, The Liberty Minstrel, 1844 (an anti-slavery songbook).

We're coming, we're coming, the fearless and free,
Like the winds of the desert, the waves of the sea!
True sons of brave sires who battled of yore,
When England's proud lion ran wild on our shore!
We're coming, we're coming, from mountain and glen,
With hearts to do battle for freedom again;
Oppression is trembling as trembled before
The slavery which fled from our fathers of yore.

We're coming, we're coming, with banners unfurled,
Our motto is FREEDOM, our country the world;
Our watchword is LIBERTY--tyrants beware!
For the liberty army will bring you despair!
We're coming, we're coming, we'll come from afar,
Our standard we'll nail to humanity's car;
With shoutings we'll raise it, in triumph to wave,
A trophy of conquest, or shroud for the brave.

Then arouse ye, brave hearts, to the rescue come on!
The man-stealing army we'll surely put down;
They are crushing their millions, but soon they must yield,
For _freemen_ have _risen_ and taken the field.
Then arouse ye! arouse ye! the fearless and free,
Like the winds of the desert, the waves of the sea;
Let the north, west, and east, to the sea-beaten shore,
_Resound_ with a _liberty triumph_ once more.

(By the way, Dave Braham's tune to "Salvation Army" is a modest rework of an Irish dance tune ... can't think of the title, but anyone who wants can check the Levy Collection sheet music for "Salvation Army" and see if you can identify it. It partly resembles the Brigger tune for "Away With Rum" but there are lots of differences too.)


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Subject: RE: Origin - Away away with rum
From: GUEST,Bob Coltman
Date: 22 Feb 08 - 09:06 AM

Okay, all I had to do was check the Fiddlers Companion website.

"Kinloch of Kinloch" isn't noticeably the "Away With Rum" tune -- given that the writeup says "'Blow the Wind Southerly' is a song based on the 'Kinloch' tune."

"Blow The Wind Southerly" (not the shanty "Blow Ye Winds Southerly," which is a different kettle of fish) is a 19th century English pop song but though the scansion matches, the "Away With Rum" tune differs substantially.

Where to from here, brave little band?

Bob


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Subject: RE: Origin - Away away with rum
From: GUEST,Bob Coltman
Date: 22 Feb 08 - 09:17 AM

From the sublime to the silly:

Hand Sanitizer Found to Pose Abuse Risk
Associated Press | February 1, 2007

BALTIMORE — Prison officials and poison control centers can add a new substance to their list of intoxicants — hand sanitizer. A usually calm 49-year-old prisoner prompted a call to the Maryland Poison Control Center after guards found him red-eyed, combative and "lecturing everyone about life." Other inmates and staff reported the unidentified prisoner had been drinking from a gallon container of hand sanitizer, which is more than 70 percent alcohol, or over 140 proof, the center's director wrote in an article appearing in the February issue of the New England Journal of Medicine.

That call was one of about a half dozen the Maryland Poison Control Center has received involving hand sanitizers, said Dr. Suzanne Doyon, the poison center's director and co-author of the article. Doyon wrote the article along with Dr. Christopher Welsh, assistant professor in the University of Maryland School of Medicine, to raise awareness of the potential for abuse of hand sanitizers.

While the hand sanitizer contains other chemicals in smaller amounts, it is primarily the same type of alcohol found in liquor, and acts on the body in the same way, said Doyon.

"I don't think a lot of people realize these are ethanol containing, or alcohol containing. They are really no different than a really concentrated liquor," Doyon said. ....

Well I just couldn't resist adding this:

We never use hand sanitizer, it's an ethanol punch,
And prisoners take it for breakfast and lunch,
Have you ever seen any vision so vile
Than a man with clean fingers and a dim goofy smile?
Have you ever seen a more disgusting scene
Than a sanitized drunk with his hands bright and clean?

Bob


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Subject: RE: Origin - Away away with rum
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 01 Mar 08 - 02:32 PM

I am just trying to pull this thread together. Can anyone throw new light?

Does anyone have a copy of Randolph's Ozark Folksongs Volume 2?


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Subject: RE: Origin - Away away with rum
From: The Mole Catcher's Apprentice (inactive)
Date: 01 Mar 08 - 04:58 PM

RANDOLPH, VANCE (COLLECTED AND EDITED BY). Ozark Folksongs (Four Volumes).
Columbia: University of Missouri Press, 1980. Hardcover. Complete in four volumes. Volume I: British Ballads and Songs, Volume II: Songs of the South and West, Volume III: Humorous and Play-Party Songs, Volume IV: Religious Songs and Other Items. Introduction by W. K. McNeil. Second, revised edition. Firs t printing thus. Volumes I and IV are fine in very near fine (slight sun fading to title portion of spine) dust jackets. Volumes II and III are fine in fine dust jackets. A clean, bright, and attractive set. ISBN: 0826202977, 0826202985,. Near Fine in Near Fine dust jacket .

Offered for US$ 350.00 by: Grendel Books

I'm sure there must be a Dover Edition of this set.

Charlotte (the view from Ma and Pa's piano stool)


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Subject: RE: Origin - Away away with rum
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 01 Mar 08 - 05:15 PM

Thanks Charlotte,

I wondered if anybody had a copy they could look in.

Les


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Subject: RE: Origin - Away away with rum
From: GUEST,Bob Coltman
Date: 02 Mar 08 - 01:13 AM

Les, yes, I have (access to) a copy locally. I've already put in this thread nearly everything that's to be gained from looking at the song in Randolph Vol 2. But here goes.

The song is nothing but a single verse on page 414 of Volume 2. It reads, in full:

TEMPERANCE SONG
Sung by Miss Rose O'Neill, Day, Mo., Sept 2, 1941. Learned about forty years ago.

We're coming, we're coming, our brave little band,
On the right side of temperance we loyally stand,
We don't use terbacker, for this is what we think,
Them that does use it most always does drink.

That's all: just that single verse. No chorus. You now have the complete Randolph entry, except for the tune.

Does that answer your question? Bob


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Subject: RE: Origin - Away away with rum
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 02 Mar 08 - 06:11 AM

Thanks Bob, you have confirmed what I thought. I am still reading all the posts and trying to come to some conclusions. As with many of these songs the origin may well be lost but it looks like it was brought to life by a burst of creativity in the 50's and well sung from then on

Cheers

Les


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Subject: RE: Origin - Away away with rum
From: Flash Company
Date: 02 Mar 08 - 10:14 AM

First saw this printed in 'Sing Out' circa 1963, no mention of authorship, although they said 'popularized by Barbara Dane'.
Frank O'Reilly used to do it with the Union Folk, usually in a different key to what the band were playing in!

We don't allow massage, stiff muscles to cure,
Those alcohol rubs turn a man to a boor,
Oh can you imagine the terrible fate,
Of a man being massaged 'til he can't stand up straight!

Sung with (un)suitable gestures it usually brings the house down.

FC


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Subject: RE: Origin - Away away with rum
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 02 Mar 08 - 11:22 AM

Frank O'Reilly used to do it with the Union Folk,

Where was this then, Flash?


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Subject: RE: Origin - Away away with rum
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 02 Mar 08 - 11:24 AM

But, Barbara:

http://www.barbaradane.net/


Barbara


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Subject: RE: Origin - Away away with rum
From: vectis
Date: 02 Mar 08 - 12:01 PM

I've been singing this one for over 30 years but have no idea of the true origins. I was told it dated from the 1920's but that new verses got added all the time. The reference to cookies rather than biscuits suggests that it is American in origin.

AWAY WITH RUM

CHORUS
Away!Away! With rum, by gum.   With rum by gum, with rum by gum.
Away! Away! With rum by gum,   That's the song of the Salvation Army

We are coming! We are coming our brave little band
On the right side of temperance we come for to stand
We don't smoke tobacco for this we do think,
That the people who do so are liable to drink

Oh! We never eat cookies 'cos cookies have yeast
And a bite from a cookie turns a man to a beast.
Oh! Can you imagine a sorrier sight,
Than a man eating cookies until he gets tight?

Oh! We never eat fruit cake 'cos fruit contains rum,& a bite from a cake turns a man to a bum.
Oh! Can you imagine a sadder disgrace,
Than a man in the gutter with crumbs on his face?

Oh! We never send clothes to be dry cleaned or pressed,
'Cos ether and alcohol are used in the quest.
There's nothing so sorry or sad I suppose,
Than a man getting drunk from the smell of his clothes

Oh! We do not go hiking 'cos it gives you sore feet,   'Tho surgical spirit will cure it a treat.
Because it gets through the skin by osmosis,
And you end up with ten drunk little toeses

Oh! We never use 'Brylcreem' as it's got bay rum,
And too many rubbings turn a fellow quite numb.
And now here's a thought that should have you in fits,
Just imagine those millions of paralytic nits...


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Subject: RE: Origin - Away away with rum
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 02 Mar 08 - 01:05 PM

Vectis,

"I was told it dated from the 1920's"

Any source for this?

Cheers

and thanks

Les


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Subject: RE: Origin - Away away with rum
From: Stringsinger
Date: 02 Mar 08 - 01:15 PM

The song was popular in the folk coffee houses and clubs in the Fifties. The Limelighters did a version of it. Bud and Travis and many others at the time. Barbara Dane did her version of it and I think so did the Chad Mitchell Trio.

There were many rewrites from the early Temperance Union song.

Frank Hamilton


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Subject: RE: Origin - Away away with rum
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 02 Mar 08 - 01:19 PM

Thanks Frank. I think we have a good trail going back to the early 50's. the song seems to consolidate to its present form by then.

The interesting bit is where it came from before WW2. Perhaps Barbara Dane could help. I tried her website but couldn't find an e-mail address. She is busy celebrating 80 years of life so she sure has some experience to draw on.

Cheers

Les


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Subject: RE: Origin - Away away with rum
From: GUEST,Bob Coltman
Date: 02 Mar 08 - 04:13 PM

Again, Randolph's source claimed she learned it around 1900. Sure wish he had drawn her out on the subject. Randolph always did informative headnotes to each song where he had anything to go on, citing previous publication, etc., but in this case no more info is given.

I'm convinced this was either a parody of a hymn, or an original satirical song, composed either in England or in the US, c. 1890-1900. There's a good chance it may have been intended as a parody of Harrigan and Braham's "Salvation Army", but there's no real paper trail and intervening versions 1900-1940 are entirely missing. No documentation to prove the 1900 timing, either apart from that remark of hers.

Also we have no good sources for anything but the first verse previous to the 1950s. Yet I doubt Brigger or anyone he knew wrote additional verses. Frustrating!

Best bet: It may yet turn up in one of those folios of comic songs that were so popular in both Britain and America around the turn of the century. Or on an obscure 78 rpm record maybe. Music hall origin is possible, given the Harrigan-Braham tie.

Can anyone knowledgeable about the British, American (or Canadian, Australian, etc.) music hall suggest a research route?

Bob


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Subject: RE: Origin - Away away with rum
From: Uke
Date: 02 Mar 08 - 04:33 PM

This is turning out to be a truly excellent thread.

Thanks Joe for the verse tune from 'Sing Out' - it differs quite markedly from the DT version. Whereas the chorus part aligns pretty closely with 'North Atlantic Squadron'.

Bob, thanks for your detective work! Here is a link to the sheet music for the 1882 song by Ed Harrigan and Dave Brahan, Salvation Army.


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Subject: RE: Origin - Away away with rum
From: Uke
Date: 02 Mar 08 - 05:19 PM

Here's another piece of the puzzle:

One of the posts near the start of this thread mentions that 'The North Atlantic' might derive from 'The Old Destroyer Squadron'. A google search has turned up this - The Old Destroyer Squadron - from the 1931 book 'Mud and Stars - An Anthology of World War Songs and Poetry (ed. Dorothea York), pp.41-42. It was reprinted from an earlier book called 'The Book of Navy Songs', first published in 1926 by the Trident Society and the US Naval Academy at Annapolis. Here is the song in a later reprint, copyrighted to 1926, with tune (pp.40-41): The Old Destroyer Squadron (1926)

Most importantly, the tune is given by York as 'The Armored Cruiser Sqadron' or 'Away with Rum'! Meaning that 'Away with Rum' (with the popular chorus tune) goes back to 1926 at least...

(BTW: The google book links I've made don't seem to link to the specific pages, but I've given the numbers so it should be easy enough).


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Subject: RE: Origin - Away away with rum
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 03 Mar 08 - 12:27 AM

This verse

"Oh! We never send clothes to be dry cleaned or pressed,
'Cos ether and alcohol are used in the quest."

Has the possibility of some scientific dating - due to the technical nature of the 'dry cleaning process'. The ' 'dry cleaning' may have been been a 'home done' process - the gradual tightening of the free availability of ether and 'untreated' alcohol' would be a note. Of course, if it is just satirical, this may not be relevant anyway.


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Subject: RE: Origin - Away away with rum
From: vectis
Date: 03 Mar 08 - 09:51 AM

I can't remember when I was told it was a 1920s song or by whom. The date is the only thing that stuck in what passes for my mind.


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Subject: RE: Origin - Away away with rum
From: Flash Company
Date: 03 Mar 08 - 09:56 AM

Hi Les.. Malt Shovels in Altrincham in the years when it was a music pub.
Frank's response to 'What key is this in?' was usually 'Yale!'
The group would start playing, Frank would start singing, Kenny would laugh and change key to suit Frank, leaving the rest of them floundering. Happy Days!

FC


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Subject: RE: Origin - Away away with rum
From: GUEST,TJ in San Diego
Date: 03 Mar 08 - 06:00 PM

A great lady from Fresno, CA, Linda Rau, performed that fine piece of music on one of the very first evenings I ever spent in our local coffee house, "The Renaissance," circa 1958-60. She also did another iconic masterpiece,"Logger Lover," as I recall. Having learned the song from Linda (and having embellished it freely) I am still asked to do "The Salvation Army Song" by the occasional odd person (emphasize odd).


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Subject: RE: Origin - Away away with rum
From: Uke
Date: 03 Mar 08 - 07:35 PM

Here's another clue in the 'Away with Rum'-'North Atlantic Squadron' tune puzzle.

As posted above, 'North Atlantic Squadron' was published in 1931 in the book "Mud and Stars" where the tune was given as 'The Armormed Cruiser Squadron' or 'Away with Rum'.

According to the book "Mess Night Traditions" (2007, Charles J. Gibowicz), p.76, the 'Armored Cruiser Squadron' was connected to the banning of rum rations in the US Navy by teetotalling Josephus Daniels, Secretary of the Navy, in mid-1914:

"For one of the [New York] Tribune's cartoons, some verses had been composed to fit an old song of the times and these accompanied the cartoon. The verses became a hit and were popularly sung throughout the fleet.

Away, away with sword and drum,
Here we come, full of rum,
Looking for someone to put on the bum,
In the Armored Cruiser Squadron.

Josephus Daniels is a goose,
If he thinks he can induce
Us to drink his damn grape juice
In the Armored Cruiser Squadron."

(This book is available on Google Books.)


From this piece of information and the lyrics it might be deduced that 'Away with Rum' (complete with rollicking chorus tune) predates the 'Armored Cruiser'/'North Atlantic Squadron' songs. After Harrigan and Brahan wrote the original in 1882 it probably changed tunes and went into oral tradition - Randolph's informant was probably correct in dating 'Away with Rum' to around 1900. Certainly by 1914 it was being adapted and parodied itself.


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Subject: RE: Origin - Away away with rum
From: GUEST,Willliam Hite
Date: 14 Apr 08 - 07:28 PM

Kinloch of Kinloch is the tune Robert Burns used for his stunningly beautiful song "Sweetest May".

I shall post it when I get home.

It is on the Linn Complete Burns set sung by John Moran, I think


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Subject: RE: Origin - Away away with rum
From: Uke
Date: 04 May 08 - 09:36 PM

There's this version called 'The Salvation Army Song' from the 1947 homemade Blue Ox Song Book.


It goes:

THE SALVATION ARMY SONG

We're coming! We're coming! Our brave little band,
On the right side of temperance we now take our stand.
We don't chew tobacco- because we do think
That the people who do so are likely to drink.

We never eat fruitcake; it's chuck full of rum,
And the least little bit puts a man on the bum.
Have you ever seen a more horrible sight
Than a man eating fruitcake until he gets tight?

Have you ever seen a more public disgrace
Than a man in the gutter with crumbs on his face?

Away! Away with rum, by gum!
With rum, by gum! with rum, by gum!
Away! Away with rum, by gum!
Is the song of the Salvation Army.


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Subject: RE: Origin - Away away with rum
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 05 May 08 - 02:41 AM

Thanks Uke, that book is truly amazing. Can you tell us more about its origin?

Cheers
Les


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Subject: RE: Origin - Away away with rum
From: Uke
Date: 05 May 08 - 06:08 PM

Hi Les, no I don't know anything much about it - just what can be gleaned from the pages and the website. It looks like a homemade song book, probably an edition of 25 or less (?), kind of an underground folk tradition all its own. You could drop a line to the website owner John Patrick and ask him about it.


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Subject: RE: Origin - Away away with rum
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 06 May 08 - 07:57 AM

Thanks Uke I will do that

Les


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Subject: RE: Origin - Away away with rum
From: GUEST,Bob Coltman
Date: 18 Jul 08 - 06:42 AM

Les and Uke,

I haven't done a detailed song-by-song comparison, but it looks at a glance as if the Blue Ox Song Book may have been a partial borrowing from the earliest versions of the IOCA [International Outing Club Association] Song Fest, which was circulating perhaps in the late 1930s, certainly by the early 40s, and endured in later editions under the editorship of Dick and Beth Best into the early 1960s.

We were all doing songbooks in those years. College students in dorms and out on the trail were singing scads of ski bum, hiking, and general party songs, traditional folk, oldtime pop, and lots of parodies thereof. (No radio & TV for college students in those days -- they had to make their own entertainment, and anything was better than studying.) This was a very active movement in Europe as well - source of such gems as "I Love to Go a-Wandering" and its parody "I Hate to Go a-Wandering."

That in turn was part of the larger ferment that was breaking loose from the work of folklorists and educators, which resulted in many folk and folk-like songs becoming part of school songbooks, plus numbers of early folksingers like J J Niles, Burl Ives, Pete Seeger, Woody Guthrie et al and publication of books by Sandburg, the Lomaxes, etc., so the songs were around and being actively sung, especially by those in their teens and twenties.

Young singers felt the need for songbooks to learn and sing from and circulate songs. So on campuses here and there they put together ad hoc collections, passed them out at sings. The IOCA Song Fest had become a classic by then, and was available in stacks for purchase through outing clubs, but we all knew hundreds more songs not included there, and issued them in mimeograph songbooks like the 1950s "Crud 'n Corruption" which circulated among New England hikers -- barely readable, but chock full of good songs (not bawdy songs, by the way, despite its title, just shoals of folksongs, ski songs, novelties and so on).

That's a capsule history of the milieu that produced the Blue Ox Song Book and many another like it. A good find, and a relatively early example of its kind.

Bob


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Subject: RE: Origin - Away away with rum
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 21 Jul 08 - 01:49 AM

Thanks Bob.

I have a very small collection of those kind of song books. To call it a collection is to exaggerate, I have 3 or 4, but they are fascinating and throw up some good songs.

I keep meaning to re-read the whole of this thread and try to sum it up. But today the sun shines so it wont be today.

Cheers

Les


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Subject: Lyr Add: AWAY WITH RUM
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 11 Apr 09 - 02:01 AM

From Michigan's Favorite College Songs edited by Roy Dickinson Welch, Earl Vincent Moore (Ann Arbor, Mich.: University Music House, 1921):

AWAY WITH RUM

1. Away, away with rum by gum
Here we come. Here we come.
Away, away with rum by gum,
The song of the Salvation Army.

2. We put Joe Parkers on the bum,
On the bum, on the bum.
We put Joe Parkers on the bum,
The song of the Salvation Army.

3. Put your nickels on the drum
On the drum, on the drum.
Put your nickels on the drum,
The song of the Salvation Army.


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Subject: RE: Origin - Away away with rum
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 11 Apr 09 - 04:45 AM

Thanks for the reminder about this brilliant old song - memories of Pete McGovern singing it in the Washhouse Folk Club in Liverpool around 1965.

Cheers

L in C


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Subject: RE: Origin - Away away with rum
From: Charley Noble
Date: 11 Apr 09 - 12:55 PM

The song certainly has evolved since 1921.

Cheerily,
Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: Origin: Away, Away with Rum, by Gum
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 02 Jan 11 - 08:02 AM

Just rediscovered this old thread of mine.

Anything new?

L in C#


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Subject: RE: Origin: Away, Away with Rum, by Gum
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 02 Jan 11 - 12:35 PM

Origins of a song below the line?

L in C#


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Subject: RE: Origin: Away, Away with Rum, by Gum
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 02 Jan 11 - 12:36 PM

Sorry my mistake

L in C#


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Subject: RE: Origin: Away, Away with Rum, by Gum
From: MtheGM
Date: 02 Jan 11 - 01:42 PM

This song was the party piece of Eric Winter, Editor of "Sing" magazine, our equiv of "Sing Out", financed by the Workers' Musical Association which was one of the Marxist groups which jumped, inter alia, on to the 2nd [1950+] Folk Revival under auspices of such as Eric, John Hasted, Marxist physics professor at University College London (educ Winchester & New College Oxford!), et al. I met John's twin daughters last at a memorial party for Eric given by his wife Audrey, with whom I still exchange Xmas cards, when he died in 2002; John himself was also ill at the time & died soon after.

Anyhow, Eric probably learned the song from "Sing Out" & IIRC reprinted it in "Sing" c1960. He would always sing it to piano accompaniment provided by another guest at John Brunner's [sf writer & author of CND anthem The H-Bomb's Thunder] Hampstead (& later Somerset) parties; & it became popular on the London folk scene at the time. His version was pretty well analogous to most of those above: just the two verses, "We're coming...don't smoke tobacco" & "Never eat fruitcake for fruitcake has rum...Crumbs on his face".

~Michael~


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Subject: RE: Origin: Away, Away with Rum, by Gum
From: GUEST,mert proctor
Date: 29 Mar 11 - 11:35 PM

The Armored Cruiser Squadron "Uke" above got two verses. Others were: The Maryland the Tennessee/the finest ships to sail the sea/they sailed around the Horn to be/in the armored cruiser squadron....The navigator's full of tar/he shoots the truck light for a star/then wonders where in the hell we are/in the armored cruiser squadron.

this song and other military ones were included in a book assembled and sold by the Field Artillery School at Ft. Sill, Okla., back in the 30's. It was a hand-held, narrow, stiff red paperback volume. I lost my ccpy years ago (lent). My dad was asst commandant of the school then.


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Subject: RE: Origin: Away, Away with Rum, by Gum
From: r.padgett
Date: 13 Jun 12 - 04:46 AM

Been having a clear out and finally traced my Reprints from Out Volume 5 page 14

"The Salvation Army has always been fair game for 20th Century satirists ~~~~ Wobblies had nothing but contempt for the charitable hymn singing organisatio. Joe Hill's song "Pie in the Sky" was a direct response to Army groups who competed for street corners in teh struggle for men's souls and minds"

Joe Hill wrote

*And the Starvation Army they play and they sing and they clap and they pray,
Till they get all your coin on the drum, then theyll tell you when you're on the bum:

You will eat by and by in that glorious land above the sky,
Work and pray, live on hay, you'll get pie in the sky when you die*

A parody on Away with Rum, but which tune?
does it work?

3 main verses quoted tobacco, cookies and fruitcake with 6 extra verses of US origin

The Osmosis verse probably attributable to Mike Harding

Heard this song sung by Bert Cleaver (former Master of The Morris ring circa 1970) on Saturday and had not heard it live since Theresa Tooley some years ago. No other provenance stated in Reprints and other info sought!

Reprints from Sing Out6th print 1963 Oak Publications
Ray


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Subject: RE: Origin: Away, Away with Rum, by Gum
From: Bill D
Date: 13 Jun 12 - 11:08 AM

I'm not sure how I missed this 4 years ago.

The song has been around for many years, and is an obvious and easy one to add verses to...or change a few words when you forget exactly what was heard.

I heard it in Kansas in the early 60s, with the 'standard' tobacco, fruitcake, cookies and backrub verses...and soon after learned the "Temperance Union" title. Then, from somewhere this verse popped up, and 'our' little group in Kansas almost always ended with it.

♫"When you meet a folksinger, you haven't much choice,
But to sit there and listen while they prove they have no voice.
But the most shocking thing to imagine by faaaaarrr....
Is a girl with a G string upon her guitar."♫


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Subject: RE: Origin: Away, Away with Rum, by Gum
From: Amos
Date: 13 Jun 12 - 01:16 PM

I am curious how this migrated from the WCTU to the Salvation Army. I learned the "Temperance Union" version around 1958 or so from Peter Hall, and haver sung it occasionally ever since. The SA version is a new twist to me. Of course, I could have the sequence backwards, historically.


A


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Subject: RE: Origin: Away, Away with Rum, by Gum
From: Bill D
Date: 13 Jun 12 - 01:29 PM

Amos... I always 'thought' it was changed by someone who decided no one would know what the "Temperance Union" referred to. I heard Salvation Army several years earlier and then found a reference to "Temperance Union" as being the original. Can't tell you now...50 years later... where I saw that.


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Subject: RE: Origin: Away, Away with Rum, by Gum
From: Q
Date: 13 Jun 12 - 01:33 PM

Away with rum, by gum, first appeared in print in 1921 in "Michigan's Favorite College Songs, according to Traditional Ballad Index.
They thank Jim Dixon for finding this reference.

Does this reference have an indication of whether it is based on Temperance Union or Salvation Army use?

(Perhaps explained somewhere above, but I have to go, and can't read the entire thread at this time,)


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Subject: RE: Origin: Away, Away with Rum, by Gum
From: Uke
Date: 13 Jun 12 - 05:54 PM

Haven't revisited this thread for some time, really interesting to see what's come up in the meantime.

Looks like 'Away with rum' was also printed in the 1919 edition of "Michigan's Favorite College Songs". Can see it listed on the contents page on Google Books, but only snippet view.

So that probably pushes it back another couple of years.


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Subject: RE: Origin: Away, Away with Rum, by Gum
From: Uke
Date: 14 Jun 12 - 04:29 AM

I was curious, so did another search on Google Books for "Away with rum", limiting it to books published between 1850 and 1940.


There's a hit from the 1915 edition of "Michigan's Favourite College Songs". Unfortunately, no preview.

Another relevant hit was from "Yale Sheffield Monthly", vol. 21, 1915. Snippet view. Here the song is mentioned by title in some kind of article.


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Subject: RE: Origin: Away, Away with Rum, by Gum
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 18 Jun 12 - 11:17 AM

Thanks Folks - the search gets wider and older

Cheers

L i C#
in Millau, France


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