The decline of Welsh rugby singing?

Subject: The decline of Welsh rugby singing?
From: CET
Date: 16 Mar 08 - 07:37 AM

Maybe this thread belongs in the BS section. Feel free to transfer it.

After I came home yesterday from the only pub in eastern Ontario that carries the Six Nations champiionship, still buzzing from Wales' great victory over France at Millenium Stadium, I decided to continue the celebration by watching a DVD of the Barbarians beating the All Blacks at Cardiff Arms Park in 1973.

I was struck by a few things: the old style long sleeve rugby jerseys compared to the high tech gear of 2008; the Haka that looked as if the All Blacks had rehearsed it for the first time in the dressing room just before they came out on the pitch, compared to the blood thirsty, choreographed dance that the All Blacks do nowadays; a higher standard of kicking at goal in todays game - Phil Bennett missed almost every kick he tried that day at Cardiff Arms Park (perhaps he just had an off day).

The subject of the thread, however (yes, I am getting to it) is the clear superiority of the singing at Cardiff Arms Park in 1973 compared to Millennium Stadium in 2008. Thirty-five years ago, there seemed to be much better tone, better part singing, and more variety. I got the impression that today's rugby crowd knows only two scraps of songs: "Bready of heaven, bread of heaven, feed me till I want no more (feed me till I want no more)" and "They were singing hymns and arias, Land of My Fathers, Ar Hyd y Nos". I could detect more complete verses from the 1973 crowd, and more songs, including Calon Lan and Sospan Fach.

Am I wrong? Was the old Cardiff Arms Park just a better place to sing? Or in 1973 was the old tradition of communal singing not quite so weak as it is now?

Edmund

Subject: RE: The decline of Welsh rugby singing?
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 16 Mar 08 - 07:44 AM

It's those choirs, etc. they use. Kill's it.

Subject: RE: The decline of Welsh rugby singing?
From: ard mhacha
Date: 16 Mar 08 - 07:49 AM

I have noticed the decline in singing in the Millennium compared with the old Arms Park, if ever the Welsh needed an excuse for singing surely yesterdays great 6 nations triumph was it. I have to admit you are right Edmund there was no comparison, the old Stadium produced far better singing there was more variety, and yes, better harmony.
Still, well done Wales your championship win was all the sweeter as you started out as no-hopers.

Subject: RE: The decline of Welsh rugby singing?
From: sian, west wales
Date: 16 Mar 08 - 09:36 AM

Yeh, pretty pathetic. "Bread of 'Eaven" umpteen times and the occasional "ymns and Arias" and that's your lot. Sain Records (IIRC) held a special recording session in the Stadium a few years ago - massed male voice choirs - belting out the Old Favourites with half an eye to improving the repertoire, but doesn't seem to have worked.

I've been involved in a few projects teaching some of the basics - Sospan Fach for instance - in junior schools ... and the kids have never heard of them.

Someone wiser than I can probably draw all the linkages - loss of heavy industry leads to loss of communities leads to loss of ... etc.   Lots of reasons, too, for the decline of church/chapel, and it's associated society, but this hasn't helped the common repertoire either. (((sigh)))

But ... it's still a Grand Slam!

Lock up your daughters.

sian

Subject: RE: The decline of Welsh rugby singing?
From: breezy
Date: 16 Mar 08 - 10:02 AM

Delilah was there, heard her meself.

Still miles better than anywhere else though

and where is Max

Subject: RE: The decline of Welsh rugby singing?
From: Chris in Portland
Date: 16 Mar 08 - 10:03 AM

At least they don't do The Wave! Do they?
Chris in Portland
ps I think the sports folk should support the Sing4Wales effort - see You Tube for their recordings of the Welsh classics.

Subject: RE: The decline of Welsh rugby singing?
From: Folkiedave
Date: 16 Mar 08 - 10:31 AM

All stated when a Sheffield Choir (Blosterstone) kept beating the Welsh at singing.

Come on you Blades.........

Dave

Subject: RE: The decline of Welsh rugby singing?
From: Rasener
Date: 16 Mar 08 - 10:34 AM

>>The decline of Welsh rugby singing<<
Thank goodness for that :-)

Subject: RE: The decline of Welsh rugby singing?
From: Colin Randall
Date: 16 Mar 08 - 11:37 AM

Not much of a fan of the squashed ball, but I'd say the best Welsh rugby singing I have heard in recent times probably came when Alain Stivell used a Cardiff crowd in full voice (but surely not from anything like as long ago as 1973) in his version of Land of my Fathers on an album called, I think, Brian Boru

Subject: RE: The decline of Welsh rugby singing?
From: Rasener
Date: 16 Mar 08 - 12:05 PM

I like this Keep a welcome :-)

Subject: RE: The decline of Welsh rugby singing?
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 16 Mar 08 - 12:49 PM

I've never been particularly fond of that one.

I suppose my favorite for singing out is Calon Lan

Subject: RE: The decline of Welsh rugby singing?
From: Ref
Date: 16 Mar 08 - 02:16 PM

Goal kicking is better nowadays because more players practice at it, because they're openly professionals now, and because they're not using those old, unbalanced, heavy leather balls anymore. Singing is worse because people generally sing a lot less. A fellow who lifts his voice in song used to be listened to and applauded, if only for having the courage to try. Now, he's likely to be laughed at and shouted down since he doesn't sound like a professional. Progress has been good for the kickers and other players, but bad for the crowd.

Subject: RE: The decline of Welsh rugby singing?
From: Gervase
Date: 16 Mar 08 - 05:22 PM

The singing still goes on, but it has been steam-rollered by the 'one verse of Dellilah and then Bread of Heaven' brigade in the new stadium. These days, though, it's on the trains after the game that the best singing's done. Going back to Carmarthen after the last Australia game we did Calon Lan (with endless harmonies), Sospan Fach, Ar Hyd y Nos, the strange Gog song about counting goats and Mae Hen Wlad until the cows came home - plus a few others I'd not heard before.

Subject: RE: The decline of Welsh rugby singing?
From: GUEST,Dani
Date: 16 Mar 08 - 06:58 PM

Our new-ish North Carolina symphony conductor (Grant Llewellyn) told some great songs-on-the-rugby-bus stories when he was interviewed shortly after taking over. Surprised some people : )

Dani

Subject: RE: The decline of Welsh rugby singing?
From: Llanfair
Date: 17 Mar 08 - 04:00 AM

Plenty of singing going on here Saturday night.

When I came here, I expected lots of singing in the pubs, but then I learned that the local male voice choir were forbidden to sing because their song arrangements were copyrighted.

Besides, the locals are into country and western in a big way!!

Subject: RE: The decline of Welsh rugby singing?
From: Ref
Date: 17 Mar 08 - 09:30 PM

Glad to hear some traditions still hold. I was in Gloucestershire in '06 on a reffing exchange. It was a great experience and I loved the people and drank a LOT of great ales, but there was no singing to speak of. We spent a day in Cardiff and toured the new stadium, where we heard a wonderful recording of a trio doing Land Of Our Fathers (and if anyone can tell me how to get a copy, I'd be grateful.) Maybe we should have spent more time across the Severn!

Subject: RE: The decline of Welsh rugby singing?
From: GUEST,Dr Price
Date: 18 Mar 08 - 12:06 PM

"Maybe this thread belongs in the BS section. Feel free to transfer it..."

Why? Welsh harmony singing has existed for over a thousand years. Giraldus Cambrensis wrote a report on medieval Welsh close harmony singing, and Professor J Glyn Davies described accurately the culture which made North Wales tall-ship sailors sing shanties in harmony.

Harmony singing - and other has deteriorated considerably in the last three decades, helped inexorably by a three-way assault on Thatcher's war on the coal and heavy industries, Kim Howells' hateful and senseless Licensing Act and the boom in computer games. There's a pub not far from here where the piano was in constant use for community singing. Now the piano stands silent under the shadow of the Licensing Act, which has decreed that anyone playing the instrument is risking a £20,000 fine for the landlord and the confiscation of the piano!

Our children are being introduced to a cultural wasteland. This petty vandalism must stop.

Subject: RE: The decline of Welsh rugby singing?
From: The Mole Catcher's Apprentice (inactive)
Date: 18 Mar 08 - 12:13 PM

"Kim Howells'hateful and senseless Licensing Act

well we all know Howell's view on singing....to quote Steve Knightley:

"And a minister said his vision of hell
Is three folk singers in a pub near Wells"

'nuff said

Charlotte (the view from Ma and Pa's piano stool)

Subject: RE: The decline of Welsh rugby singing?
From: GUEST,Dr Price
Date: 18 Mar 08 - 12:13 PM

Whoops - I spot a literal. Strike out "Harmony singing - and other has..." and replace it with "Harmony singing - and other community and folk activities - has..."

Sorry!

Subject: RE: The decline of Welsh rugby singing?
From: GUEST,Real Welsh
Date: 18 Mar 08 - 03:08 PM

This all started with the decline of the Welsh Chapels.I remember waking up in a Hotel in the 50's with a terrible hangover and thinking I was dead and had gone to heaven the sound of singing outside was tremendous.When I looked outside there were about 3000 Welsh fans nearly bringing London to a standstill as they sang..Myfanwy..I bob un sydd ffyddlon...Sospan Fach..Calon Lan.Cwn Rhondda ...Llef LAND OF MY FATHERS etc THAT WAS THE WALES I WANT TO REMEMBER AS I GO INTO MY 85TH YEAR IN THIS WORLD.
The boys played great against France but the singing as others have said is poor..I THINK WE'RE EVEN WORSE THAN ENGLAND NOW!!!!!!

Subject: RE: The decline of Welsh rugby singing?
From: ard mhacha
Date: 19 Mar 08 - 09:47 AM

Never mind the singing Real Welsh you can take pride in a great triumph for the underdogs, well done Wales and I hope you have many more happy years.