What do these Cyril Tawney lyrics mean?

Subject: What do these Cyril Tawney lyrics mean?
From: GUEST,Alexis
Date: 28 Mar 08 - 05:52 PM

You know the first verse of the Oggy Man - I went through the gateway and I heard the seargent say Big boys are a coming, see their stands along the way
Well what does it mean? I reckon the first bit is when your man joins up, but dont understand about big boys and stands

Subject: RE: What do these Cyril Tawney lyrics mean?
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 28 Mar 08 - 05:58 PM

I assumed it meant bigger hot food stalls, which would put the old Oggie Man out of business.
G

Subject: RE: What do these Cyril Tawney lyrics mean?
From: Folkiedave
Date: 28 Mar 08 - 05:59 PM

I have always understood this to be the story.

http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/cyriltawney/depth.htm#oggie

Subject: RE: What do these Cyril Tawney lyrics mean?
From: Joybell
Date: 28 Mar 08 - 07:06 PM

Yes --- that's how the Grand Bard of Cornwall explained it to me when I asked.
I just had to mention him. Such a wonderful man -- my 5th cousin. He's dead now. I had the chance to sing for him, talk songs with him, as well as hear him when he visited Australia.
Cheers, Joy

Subject: RE: What do these Cyril Tawney lyrics mean?
From: Sugwash
Date: 28 Mar 08 - 08:40 PM

I believe that the 'Big Boys' refers to large warships i.e. battle ships and carriers. The 'stands along the way' being the prepared areas of dockside to take these large surface vessels.

Subject: RE: What do these Cyril Tawney lyrics mean?
From: Charley Noble
Date: 28 Mar 08 - 09:18 PM

I agree with Sugwash. It's the bigger ships.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: What do these Cyril Tawney lyrics mean?
From: Ross Campbell
Date: 28 Mar 08 - 10:05 PM

Sorry, Sugwash and Charley, you should have read the link above. Folkiedave and Giok have it right. This was one of the first of Cyril's songs I ever heard, sung by a Scottish a capella trio in the Glasgow Folk Centre in about 1968. Brian Miller explained the background to the song in much the same terms as Cyril himself did, ie that the guy selling Cornish pasties found himself eased off his patch by aggressively-priced competition from hot-dog and hamburger stands - "stands" being the kind of coster's barrow that such traders would use before the advent of vans. "Stand" also refers to the station on the street where such selling would be permitted. By the dockyard gate would be a prime spot, with hundreds of customers regularly in and out. At that time, the hot-dog and hamburger men could even have been gang-related - the "big boys" would ensure that any attempt by the oggie man to hold his place couldn't last long.

Ross

Subject: RE: What do these Cyril Tawney lyrics mean?
From: Gurney
Date: 28 Mar 08 - 10:07 PM

Nope. I was a member of Cyril's club for a couple of years, and I asked, and he said it was the more organised vendors whose competition broke the one-man-band Oggie Man.
He also pointed out that the song was a warning that nothing lasts forever, as witness the gateway ("He came through the gateway...") had also been pulled down. If memory serves, it was called the Royal Albert Gate at Devonport Dockyard. Demolished about 1970-71.

Subject: RE: What do these Cyril Tawney lyrics mean?
From: Charley Noble
Date: 28 Mar 08 - 10:13 PM

Ugh! It's not nice to have to recalibrate one's understanding of a song after so many years.

But thanks!

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: What do these Cyril Tawney lyrics mean?
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Mar 08 - 12:24 AM

As Freud said,"Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar"

Subject: RE: What do these Cyril Tawney lyrics mean?
From: Little Robyn
Date: 29 Mar 08 - 03:25 AM

Nowadays it's KFC or MacDonald's.
Change happens!
Robyn

Subject: RE: What do these Cyril Tawney lyrics mean?
From: GUEST,Bobby Bob, Ellan Vannin
Date: 29 Mar 08 - 06:36 AM

Joybell,

Your fifth cousin would have been John Bolitho, then. A real gentleman and a pleasure to have known him.

John would have had an interest in Cyril Tawney's lyrics in general, having been an ex-Royal Navy man himself, but also in this song in particular because of the reference to oggies.

I only heard of John's death some months after the event. By chance, there was an article in a Cornish newspaper about a Gorsedd Kernow event, and there was mention of, I think, Rod Lyon having had to take over as Grand Bard on John's death. I know John had attended Kernow Lowender in Australia during his year of office.

Happy memories of 'walking' a young lady home, John on one side, me on the other, singing the Helston Furry Dance tune because it was the only thing that would keep her legs moving!

Lhiats,

Bobby Bob

Subject: RE: What do these Cyril Tawney lyrics mean?
From: Alexis
Date: 30 Mar 08 - 03:35 AM

Thanks guys.
I had half the tale, but the first bit is now crystal clear
Alex

Subject: RE: What do these Cyril Tawney lyrics mean?
From: GUEST,Rosemary Tawney
Date: 05 Aug 08 - 01:23 PM

The full info. re "The Oggie Man" taken from Cyril's extended notes is on the "Tawney in Depth" page of his website www.cyriltawney.co.uk

Rosemary

Subject: RE: What do these Cyril Tawney lyrics mean?
From: Alexis
Date: 05 Aug 08 - 01:56 PM

Thank you Rosemary, I shall, no doubt, enjoy looking it up.
Alex

Subject: RE: What do these Cyril Tawney lyrics mean?
From: Art Thieme
Date: 05 Aug 08 - 02:50 PM

Yes, it's definitely about seminal influence, quite sexual; and the stand-up effects of Viagra too. Cyril had Nostradamus' views into the future beat by several inches.

art

Subject: RE: What do these Cyril Tawney lyrics mean?
From: Art Thieme
Date: 05 Aug 08 - 02:55 PM

Joy,

Hello to you -- and Greg too!

Art

Subject: RE: What do these Cyril Tawney lyrics mean?
From: Schantieman
Date: 05 Aug 08 - 04:13 PM

John Bolitho - an ancestor, if I remember correctly, of Richard Bolitho, fictional Naval Officer of the 18th/19th century, as created by Alexander Kent.

Or maybe he just used the Cornish name....

Steve

Subject: RE: What do these Cyril Tawney lyrics mean?
From: GUEST,Dram 48red
Date: 21 Sep 09 - 04:23 PM

I've known this song for years and as an ex-sailor knew what the lyrics meant. However, I cannot get the guitar chords for the song. Can anyone help me. Thank you.

Subject: RE: What do these Cyril Tawney lyrics mean?
From: breezy
Date: 21 Sep 09 - 06:37 PM

I can , but its late now , maybe try again later or next week,

but for now


Start ona D chord

Thumb the 4th string count 1

and pluck 1st 2nd 3rd simultaneouslt count 2

fairly rapidly, in fact fast to give a droning effect, sing slow


'D' The rain's   [change to 'A'] softly [change to'D'] falling

and the    ' G'    oggie man's no   'D'   more

next 2 lines similar

then Bm to D x 2 x 2

repeat 1ast line as 1st

good night, its easy really

Subject: RE: What do these Cyril Tawney lyrics mean?
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 21 Sep 09 - 10:15 PM

Just for interest: Fred Woods in Folk Review ih the 1970s used to run competitions, like limericks or clerihews summarising the plots of ballads.

One was to produce the shortest-ever folksong on the lines of "The Gallant Frigate 'Amphitryte', She sank in Plymouth Sound". One of the winners, I recall, was "The sun is shining, And the oggie-man's still there".

Subject: RE: What do these Cyril Tawney lyrics mean?
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 22 Sep 09 - 05:15 AM

And from the Book of Curtailed Folksongs, ' Are you going to Scarborough Fair ? no '

Dave H

Subject: RE: What do these Cyril Tawney lyrics mean?
From: GUEST,Black Belt Caterpillar Wrestler
Date: 22 Sep 09 - 07:14 AM

Come hangman slack your ..erk!!

Subject: RE: What do these Cyril Tawney lyrics mean?
From: Terry McDonald
Date: 22 Sep 09 - 07:24 AM

It's not the done thing, to have it away with the King,
Said Mary as she dangled on the end of a string.

Subject: RE: What do these Cyril Tawney lyrics mean?
From: Brian Peters
Date: 22 Sep 09 - 07:30 AM

>> "The Gallant Frigate 'Amphitryte', She sank in Plymouth Sound" <<

The one I heard was "The gallant frigate Araldite, she stuck in Plymouth Sound".

Apologies for further hi-jack of the great man's thread.

Subject: RE: What do these Cyril Tawney lyrics mean?
From: breezy
Date: 22 Sep 09 - 09:02 AM

What shall we do?

The drunken sailor

Subject: RE: What do these Cyril Tawney lyrics mean?
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 22 Sep 09 - 12:09 PM

Terry McDonald's of 0724 above is, I am sure, a curtailed (in turn) version of one of my 15 winning entries to the ballad·summarised·as·limerick competition,Folk Review November 1972, which ran, ""It wasn't a sensible thing To have it away with the king," Said Mary so sadly As she jerked about madly And twitched on the end of a string" . Agreed? I feel as if I have been collected from tradition, or something!

Sorry all — didn't mean to drift the thread like this: at least mine was about the song under discussion...

Subject: RE: What do these Cyril Tawney lyrics mean?
From: Terry McDonald
Date: 22 Sep 09 - 12:13 PM

Mike - I'm sure you're correct. I remembered it from a magazine in the early 70s but have obviously made some unconcious changes to it!

Subject: RE: What do these Cyril Tawney lyrics mean?
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 22 Sep 09 - 12:30 PM

Wow, thanks Terry - what a compliment to have it remembered after all these years. You have made my day! - Michael

Subject: RE: What do these Cyril Tawney lyrics mean?
From: The Sandman
Date: 22 Sep 09 - 01:12 PM

Oh where have you been Lord Randall, my son.
nowhere.
what a shame Gordon Hall didnt learn that version.

Subject: RE: What do these Cyril Tawney lyrics mean?
From: bubblyrat
Date: 23 Sep 09 - 06:15 AM

Hello Rosemary !! Nice to know you're still going strong ! I remember writing to you from HMS Eagle in 1968 or thereabouts to ask for the words to some song (can't remember which one !)
             But I do remember many comings and goings to and from our berth near the Non -Tidal Basin,via St Levan's Gate in Devonport Dockyard----very handy for The Avondale,and,of course, "Frank's" wonderful Oggie-shop,where one could purchase an "Oggie Special" or a "Chiefs' and POs". "All Gone" now, I suppose ??? Like the Royal Naval School of Dancing & the Palace Long Bar in Union Street ?
Those were the days !!