Recording: sing unison w/o consonants?

Subject: Recording: sing unison w/o consonants?
From: Marion
Date: 01 Apr 08 - 12:44 PM

Hi folks. I'm soon going to a studio to record a song. My engineer has suggested that I practice singing it without "hard consonants" in order to have two overlapping voice tracks - not harmony, but unison - that would make the sound richer. However, the doubled hard consonants (he gave the examples of d, t, and s) are too noticeable and need to be either omitted or edited out.

Sounds interesting - I've noticed that the sound is quite pleasant when I sing along in unison with a recording of myself.

Has anyone here used this technique in recording? If so, which consonants or consonant clusters did you leave out while singing the second track?

Thanks, Marion

Subject: RE: Recording: sing unison w/o consonants?
From: Stewart
Date: 01 Apr 08 - 01:10 PM

Marion, sounds good if you just want beautiful vocal sounds. But songs are about words, and if you can't understand the words, what's the point? I'm expecting Bob "Deckman" to come in right about now with the importance of good diction. Particularly if they're your words, they need to be understood. So stick with all the consonants! It will be just fine.

Cheers, S. in Seattle

Subject: RE: Recording: sing unison w/o consonants?
From: GUEST,Val
Date: 01 Apr 08 - 01:11 PM

I haven't tried it, but it makes some sense - "fattens up" the vocal but keeps the consonants crisp (you probably can't hit the consants EXACTLY the same time on your second track as you did on the first).

Although if you sing with any vibrato or significant pitch wavers, the doubled vocal might sound a bit weird. Best to try it & see.

(FYI, in case you're not familiar with it, there is a "chorus" effect that can be applied - basically doubling the recorded track with a very slight time-shift and phase-shift so it sounds like more than one person. But that can "muddy" the consonants as well.)

One kinda-similar thing I did have experience with when I was engineering a "hobbyist" recording of some friends of mine: she was singing a harmony track after he had recorded the guitar & vocal. At one point, the lyric went "Once, we were edg-ed" (as in sharp). With the harmony vocal, the words ran together and it sounded like a potential Mondegreen of "Once, we were wretched". That was vowel-sounds running together, not consonants. I convinced her to make a point of emphasizing the break between the words "were" and "edg-ed" - her harmony by itself then sounded a bit odd, but behind the melody it worked well.

I suspect you will probably have to do a few takes of the doubling vocal to get just the result you want. Record a bit, listen to the result, then modify your performance.

Good luck!

Val

Subject: RE: Recording: sing unison w/o consonants?
From: Marje
Date: 01 Apr 08 - 01:22 PM

I can see the sense in this - once you have the consonants there in one track, the second track might just smudge them.

But you might find that some consonants are hard to enunciate and you want to include them on both tracks for clarity. I once recorded some songs with a friend, including the lines:
"I will go by the river
When everyone's asleep,
And think of loving Hannah,
And there sit down and weep"
We found it hard to get that final "p" to sound at all, even with two of us singing, but tried hard, realising that the meaning would change utterly if it wasn't audible!

Marje

Subject: RE: Recording: sing unison w/o consonants?
From: BB
Date: 01 Apr 08 - 03:04 PM

Marion, I've doubled my voice on a chorus without noticing any problems with the consonants. You just need to be very tight on the timing, I think.

Barbara

Subject: RE: Recording: sing unison w/o consonants?
From: paula t
Date: 01 Apr 08 - 03:10 PM

We were advised to do this when adding harmonies to tracks. We did it at the end of lines , and believe me it makes quite a difference when you are paying for studio time by the hour. Didn't try to do all the words though, and it's quite difficult to do when you are accustomed to attempting to sing your words clearly.I missed quite a few at first, and certain consonants are quite noticeable when 2 people sing them together but are milliseconds apart.It is well worth persevering, because missed timing and "double consonants" will really irritate you when you've listened to them a few times on your finished tracks-even though they are not noticeable in a live performance.
Good luck.

Subject: RE: Recording: sing unison w/o consonants?
From: M.Ted
Date: 01 Apr 08 - 03:16 PM

Vocalists soften vowel sounds a lot, Stewart--it can make the words more understandable, rather than less--however, he does have a good point, Marion--this device has a distinctive sound of it's own, that may not one that you want. Also, I would anticipate that it might take a number of retakes to get that second vocal track to smoothly follow the first track.

The thing to ask is, what is the problem that this is supposed to fix, and what other ways are there of doing it (recording the vocal simultaneously onto two tracks instead of one seems like it might do what you want, as well)

Subject: RE: Recording: sing unison w/o consonants?
From: cptsnapper
Date: 01 Apr 08 - 05:07 PM

Several years ago I was involved in a recording which produced that well known Richard Thompson song The Grey Valerio. When I pointed it out I was told that we weren't supposed to sound like the Bee Gees!

Subject: RE: Recording: sing unison w/o consonants?
From: GUEST,Val
Date: 01 Apr 08 - 05:56 PM

"...(recording the vocal simultaneously onto two tracks...)"

That might be interesting. Especially if you used two mics with different tonal colors, or processed the tracks differently (tweak the EQ so one emphasizes different frequencies than the other, for example). Even identical tracks panned hard left & hard right can sound more "full" than a single track panned center.

Worth experimenting with, but definitely listen to the results and be prepared to try a few different things before you get the sound "just right". Marion, I'm guessing you're looking for a sound that is "natural" rather than obviously processed? That calls for a bit of subtlety with whatever you do. If your recording engineer has a clear understanding what you want, and if he/she is both skilled & artistic, he can probably get there one way or another.

Subject: RE: Recording: sing unison w/o consonants?
From: GUEST,Gerry
Date: 01 Apr 08 - 06:39 PM

This is the first time I've ever heard anyone say it's good to be inconsonant.
(Apologies to Martin Pearson)

Subject: RE: Recording: sing unison w/o consonants?
From: Herga Kitty
Date: 01 Apr 08 - 06:45 PM

Watch out for plosives! (the "p" sound really pops)

Kitty

Subject: RE: Recording: sing unison w/o consonants?
From: GUEST,Jonny Sunshine
Date: 02 Apr 08 - 08:16 AM

I've used this technique before (in performance as well as recording) it's especially useful for words ending in "s". It sounds a lot clearer if only one person does it, but you still have to make sure you end words at the same time.

Of course in the studio you can get a really tight sound by applying a quick fade on backing vocals at the ends of words/ lines etc. Bit of a cheat but depends what you're trying to achieve (and no more "cheating" than compiling a vocal from 10 or more takes)

Subject: RE: Recording: sing unison w/o consonants?
From: the lemonade lady
Date: 02 Apr 08 - 08:50 AM

So what's wrong with sounding the way YOU sound? Don't for God's sake start singing like Kate Rusby or Lily Allen.

Sal (my view from here)

Subject: RE: Recording: sing unison w/o consonants?
From: Grab
Date: 02 Apr 08 - 08:53 AM

On live sound when I've got a clear distinction between lead vocalist and backing vocalist(s), simply backing off the high-mid/treble (depending on pitch of voice) for the backing vocalists works pretty well. It preserves the basic pitch of their voices but loses some of the consonants, letting the lead vocalist cut through the mix regardless of how loud the backing vocalists are.

Re the chorus effect, the traditional guitar-type chorus is probably not what you want. Use a slight delay, but then also use a pitch-shifter to move it slightly up or down from the base note - not far enough that it sounds out of tune, but just enough that it's distinguishable as a different voice. I haven't yet found a pitch-shifter VST which will put a random variation on the pitch-shift to make this more realistic, but I'm sure there's one out there somewhere.

Graham.

Subject: RE: Recording: sing unison w/o consonants?
From: GUEST,LTS pretending to work
Date: 02 Apr 08 - 09:23 AM

I don't know if it'll work in a solo setting but in group singing, it's useful to soften the harder consonants, especially those at the end of words to prevent 'machine gunning' - that repeated 'd' or 't' that sounds like a gunnery range.

Soften the 's' to a 'th' so you lose the snake effect and turn final 'p's into 'b's to stop the mic getting drenched if you're a dribbler.

There are other tricks but I'm at work and can't practice them through to get the right sound!

LTS

Subject: RE: Recording: sing unison w/o consonants?
From: Marion
Date: 02 Apr 08 - 01:21 PM

Thanks for all your contributions, folks.

Marion

Subject: RE: Recording: sing unison w/o consonants?
From: the lemonade lady
Date: 02 Apr 08 - 02:31 PM

Why can't your producer use a guard over the mic so that you can sing the way you always have?

Oh and don't let him use a de s er either. it always makes one sound as tho one is sing with a lisp!

Sal

Subject: RE: Recording: sing unison w/o consonants?
From: GUEST,highlandman
Date: 02 Apr 08 - 02:50 PM

Never done exactly this on a recording, but I have used it to good effect with midsized choirs I have directed -- have one of every four singers on each voice part use normal diction with all consonants, and the other three fourths sing without the hard consonants. The consonants are present, and sound as if pronounced normally, but you don't get all the hisses and stutters you get with everyone trying to nail an 's' at the same instant.
It does take a bit of practice, but rather less practice than getting all the timing of all the consonants exactly right!
The important thing though is that some of the group are pronouncing them normally, so the listener hears nothing that sounds unusual.
-Glenn

Subject: RE: Recording: sing unison w/o consonants?
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 02 Apr 08 - 03:31 PM

I have often doubled my own voice, both in unison and in 3- and 4-part harmony, and I like to think that I am quite adept on it. The effect of the superimposed identical chromatics of the voice can be very effective, especially in harmony, as it "binds" the parts so much better. I have also sung in choirs where the job of pronouncing certain consonents was left to 2-3 of the members only, with everyone else "going soft".

If I understand correctly, your engineer is asking you to record first without hard consonents. If so (I might have misunderstood), then I believe he is wrong, because the difficulty of getting it right this way is much greater. I propose instead the following:

a) record the song first NORMALLY, with all the consonents well pronounced and being careful with the diction to make it as clear as possible without sounding affected.
b) if you have time, take a copy of this recording home and practice singing over it while softening the offending consonents
c) if you don't have the time, then practice in the studio singing over the first recording, as in b) above. Pay particular attention to phrasings, to get the timing spot on.
c) THEN record a second voice on top of the first.

The likelihood of success is much higher this way.

Offending consonents are : D, T, S and occasionally C or K. Also, when ending in M or N watch out for the duration.

Subject: RE: Recording: sing unison w/o consonants?
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 02 Apr 08 - 03:34 PM

Oh, yes, Kitty is right - the 'plosives too... Though in this case you'd need to watch them also on the first take, to avoid the pop.

Subject: RE: Recording: sing unison w/o consonants?
From: Marion
Date: 02 Apr 08 - 04:14 PM

Hi again. He proposed singing two versions, one normally and one without "hard consonants" - he didn't specify which would come first.

I'm a little concerned because the song is wordy and rapid-fire. If I'm trying to quickly sing the phrase "had decided to send" without d, t, or s, there will be a lot of glottal stops between short-lasting vowels, which will be very difficult, besides making me feel like a gorilla. Maybe I should just double the emphasized vowels, the "i" in decided and the "en" in send. But maybe turning the doubling off and on all the time will sound weird. Maybe I'll just forget about it.

Marion