Vin Garbutt and Cambridge

Subject: Vin Garbutt and Cambridge
From: Colin Randall
Date: 03 Apr 08 - 01:24 AM

A lot of people have shown interest in the debate, here and in my postings at Salut! Live, on Vin Garbutt's omission year after year from the Cambridge Folk Festival bill.
The 2008 programme has been announced. It's very good, but Vin's name is again nowhere to be found.
In the light of all the earlier interest, I asked the festival to explain the decision. Fellow Mudcat subscribers may like to know that I have now returned to the subject at Salut! Live in order to list the line-up and also report the response of the festival director, Eddie Barcan

Subject: RE: Vin Garbutt and Cambridge
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 03 Apr 08 - 02:53 AM

I've seen the numerous threads on this topic in Another Place. Can I ask, completely without malice or prejudice, why it matters so much that Vin Garbutt should be booked at Cambridge? I mean, look at the bill. There's hardly any folk, let alone English folk.

I know there's a long-standing debate because of Vin's stand on one particularly contentious issue, but does anyone really think he's not getting bookings as a result of this?

Subject: RE: Vin Garbutt and Cambridge
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 03 Apr 08 - 03:08 AM

No, I should think it's highly unlikely that this is the cause.
Vin Garbutt is just another singer-songwriter who talks rather too much on stage.
There are lots of them about and they can't all be booked at every festival every year.
If anyone wants to see The (once) Young Tin Whistle Pest there are ample opportunities elsewhere.
I fail to understand the annual fuss about will he or won't he appear at a mainstream popfest in the fens which began to lose its point about a quarter of a century ago.

Subject: RE: Vin Garbutt and Cambridge
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 03 Apr 08 - 03:19 AM

Agreed.
There are many many fine artists, who have never been booked out Cambridge...
Why single out poor old Vin year after year? Has anybody asked him if he actually wants/needs to appear at Cambridge?
It's only a festival after all. (Not one I'd go to I would admit, anyway I haven't got a giant folding chair and a blanket, so I wouldn't be allowed in anyway!)

Subject: RE: Vin Garbutt and Cambridge
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 03 Apr 08 - 03:53 AM

I don't think they book Rolf Harris very often, either. Perhaps someone will launch a campaign.

Subject: RE: Vin Garbutt and Cambridge
From: Rasener
Date: 03 Apr 08 - 04:15 AM

They may not have booked him at Cambridge, but I have booked him for Faldingworth.

As I have said previously, the promoter and performer/agent are grown up people and they are quite capable of setting up a gig if they want to, without this sort of crap thread or interference.

I do not think that threads like this do Vin one scrap of good.

Subject: RE: Vin Garbutt and Cambridge
From: GUEST,SM
Date: 03 Apr 08 - 04:41 AM

Or Rolf....

Subject: RE: Vin Garbutt and Cambridge
From: Colin Randall
Date: 03 Apr 08 - 04:44 AM

For the record, The Villan (and Ralphie), Vin was perfectly happy to talk to me at length on this subject when I first wrote about it for Salut! Live.
In the circumstances, given Eddie Barcan's equally full response on that occasion, it would have been odd not to answer the obvious question: would he be booked for 2008? I fail to see how it is not a perfectly legitimate matter for public discussion.

And yes, Ruth, there are lots of people who do think Cambridge stopped inviting him because of a reaction by some listeners to one of those songs. Vin thinks it is the case (he would, I hear you saying); Cambridge says it is not (they would). I have simply tried to report the issues fairly, though I also feel entitled to express my own view.

Subject: RE: Vin Garbutt and Cambridge
From: GUEST,Betsy ( from Work)
Date: 03 Apr 08 - 05:01 AM

Vin is happily married man around 30 Years, lovely wife, 4 great kids ,a devoted Christian , likes a pint of beer ,never used drugs, loves a laugh with family and friends, intelligent ( but not an over-educated idiot) always sees both sides in a discussion , loves humanity and a terrific all round person.
He is an excellent performer and that's why you may have great difficulty in booking him.
To paraphrase him after a recent craic regarding this matter,is,he is genuinely not too bothered either way, he is enjoying life and certainly not short of quality engagements, and without a hint of bitterness ,he simply thinks that it's a "shame" that the Cambridge issue was allowed to evolve into it's present situation.

For myself - I believe that every party is a loser in this matter.

Diane, I have read many of your posts on other subjects, and expected more of you than the silly-put down in your message "singer-songwriter who talks rather too much on stage".

The talking isn't jokes about other subjects.
He introduces songs generally in a witty way to entice the audience into listening more carefully to the words and maybe give some background to the song, which may or may not exist in the actual words of the song.
Vin's audiences in theatres and the like, often attract people who wouldn't be seen dead in a Folk Club, so the witty intros to the songs (I think ) relax some of these people and give them an insight to Song/Subject that they are about to hear.
Most of us who have enjoyed Folk music these many years are conditioned to listening to the words, whereas people who are seeing a Vin or Folk Singer for the first time, do not understand the emphasis which is placed on the words, story and/or structure of the type of song which attracts Folk people.
Besides, I just simply enjoy the intros I think it gives the performances - balance.

Great to read Colin Randall – I have a great respect for him in folk matters and he "goes back " many a year. Long may your pen have ink Colin !!!!!

Cheers Betsy.

Subject: RE: Vin Garbutt and Cambridge
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 03 Apr 08 - 05:14 AM

Maybe I meant that I'd prefer him to stick to song background explanations and not wander off into long-winded, extraneous stuff which has clearly not enhanced his career.
I'm fascinated with your assertion that alcohol use is more virtuous than toking.
And that you consider the disclosure of personal details such as monogamy, religion and academic achievement relevant.
And if Vin Garbutt himself is "not too bothered either way" about a booking at one festival, why should anyone else be?

Subject: RE: Vin Garbutt and Cambridge
From: GUEST,Betsy
Date: 03 Apr 08 - 06:46 AM

Diane,
Please don't make silly "assertions" and comparisons which I did not make. The profile I described was trying to indicate that he is the same asmany of us think about ourselves - a normal Joe ( or Joan if you like) .As for Academic achievement I simply attributed to him the same status that I would extend to yourself, in that, on the strength of your postings (some of which I have held a different view), I have always found your postings to be those which could be reasonably attributed an intelligent person.
Incidentally my previous post took so long to type, that, by the time I had sent it, Villain and Colin had written again so my words about Colin were related to his first post but I re-itereate for his 2nd.
Colin, IMHO Villain is definitely a good 'un , just pissed off like many of us that this subject matter keeps cropping-up under
different threads and guises .

Subject: RE: Vin Garbutt and Cambridge
From: Rasener
Date: 03 Apr 08 - 07:13 AM

>>just pissed off like many of us that this subject matter keeps cropping-up under
different threads and guises . <<

Agreed Betsy!

Subject: RE: Vin Garbutt and Cambridge
From: Grab
Date: 03 Apr 08 - 08:31 AM

As much as I like my singer-songwriters, I have to agree with Ruth on how folky the Cambridge Folk Festival is. It's not just the line-up, but also how the music is presented. Vast marquees with rock-style sound quality don't really favour folk.

Also, to me, a folk festival has to have a participatory element in it, but Cambridge just doesn't have that. The campsite has some stuff happening, but the festival site itself is a participatory desert.

It'd also be nice if the festival had some involvement with where it's based, but I lived in Cambridge for 3 years before I found where the festival was.   The festival is simply irrelevant to the area. Aliens could teleport the entire site to Milton Keynes, and no-one would ever notice until the visitors got in their cars to go home.

And finally, it'd be nice if the festival organisers could figure out how to sell tickets. This has been a total clusterfuck for years, and they still haven't worked it out. If I could order a ticket for this like I'd order a ticket for any other festival, maybe I'd go - there are some people I wouldn't mind seeing (notably Joan Armatrading). But the ticket sales fiasco is such that I just don't see the point of trying.

Graham.

Subject: RE: Vin Garbutt and Cambridge
From: GUEST,caitlín
Date: 03 Apr 08 - 09:36 AM

I agree with Betsy's opening sentence in her first post except for one bit. The whole problem with That Song is that he does NOT 'always see both sides in a discussion'. The pain inflicted by the sweeping judgements in it can't be imagined by anyone who has not been through that experience. And Vin has not. Praising him for always seeing both sides is just a kick in the face.

I don't think that should keep him out of Cambridge though, or any other event. And personally I don't think it has. Cambridge says "It will always be the case that many more artists want to perform than we can accommodate". Anyone know a big gig that's not true of?

Yes Vin is very talented - though my personal opinion is pretty much in line with Diane's (he spends too much time talking - 4 songs in a 35 minute set once). I also agree with her and the others about the festival itself: Who CARES? Another overgrown and overhyped media-fest full of pop acts and wannabes. Vin isn't either of those things anyway, so why does everyone bother so much?

But they do. So Colin is right to post that link. It's relevant to the issue and a lot of peeps are interested. (If anyone thinks this is a crap thread, why open it FFS?) I agree with Betsy on one thing anyway - Long may your pen have ink (good phrase that). I read Colin's stuff simply because he wrote it, whatever the subject's about.

Subject: RE: Vin Garbutt and Cambridge
From: GUEST,Steve Gullick
Date: 03 Apr 08 - 12:21 PM

Hi Betsy

Bit of advice - don't wrestle with pigs - they love it, and you end up covered in their shit.

Subject: RE: Vin Garbutt and Cambridge
From: GUEST,caitlín
Date: 03 Apr 08 - 02:21 PM

A pig, why? For having different opinions from yours? If you mean me, the only thing I disagree with Betsy about is the 'sees both sides' thing. That's not wrestling. We're all free to hold and express our own viewpoints, as Colin already said.

Your post says a whole lot more about you than it does about any of us. Chill.

Subject: RE: Vin Garbutt and Cambridge
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 03 Apr 08 - 02:32 PM

Is this the "Steve Gullick" who goes round snapping pop singers?
Not quite the "Little Innocent" then.
Nor, exactly, in a position to appreciate the "other side" of the desperate woman faced with an impossibly difficult decision.

Who's the pig?

Subject: RE: Vin Garbutt and Cambridge
From: GUEST,The MOle Catcher's unplugged Apprentice
Date: 03 Apr 08 - 02:33 PM

Caitlin, I was going to enquire as to whether Mr Gullick has, indeed, had experience with pig wrestling, but your final line in your post about says it all.

and before anyone askes..I am familiar with the long-standing debate regarding Vin Garbutt (yes folks even beyond The Rocky Mountains *LOL*)

Cheers

Charlotte (the view from Ma and Pa's piano stool)

Subject: RE: Vin Garbutt and Cambridge
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 03 Apr 08 - 03:13 PM

Caitlin, I'd PM you but since you're not a member I can't.
Thought you should know that "Betsy" ain't no dame . . .

Subject: RE: Vin Garbutt and Cambridge
From: GUEST,Ed
Date: 03 Apr 08 - 03:29 PM

Would it be possible for someone who knows the songs 'Little Innocents' and 'The Secret' to post the lyrics?

At least we'd then know the basis for this supposed squabble.

Subject: RE: Vin Garbutt and Cambridge
From: Herga Kitty
Date: 03 Apr 08 - 03:45 PM

The contentious issue was abortion, which Vin, as a practising Catholic, is strongly opposed to, and wrote very emotive songs about. He made audiences (especially those who were pro-choice) uncomfortable, so some organisers stopped booking him.


Kitty

Subject: RE: Vin Garbutt and Cambridge
From: Herga Kitty
Date: 03 Apr 08 - 03:46 PM

PS I'm a fan of Vin's but not of those particular songs.

Kitty

Subject: RE: Vin Garbutt and Cambridge
From: GUEST,Ed
Date: 03 Apr 08 - 03:48 PM

The contentious issue was abortion, which Vin, as a practising Catholic, is strongly opposed to, and wrote very emotive songs about.

I'm well aware of that, I'd still like to read the lyrics myself if anyone would be kind enough to post them.

Thanks,

Ed

Subject: RE: Vin Garbutt and Cambridge
From: GUEST,Steve Gullick
Date: 03 Apr 08 - 04:57 PM

No, not you Caitlin.

How typically easbyesque to ask a question, answer it and then pronounce judgement on the answer.

I may or may not be the person you think I am.

And how long has folk music and song only been right when it is comfortable?