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Seth Lakemen on Channel 5 today
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Subject: Seth Lakemen on Channel 5 today From: Cats Date: 06 Apr 08 - 06:01 AM There is a programme called My Music on Channel 5 TV this morning at 11am which features Seth and the influences on his music. Just off to watch it now. It might be on their website. Whether you like him or not, at least there is a TV programme about folk music, pity about the timing though. |
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Subject: RE: Seth Lakemen on Channel 5 today From: George Papavgeris Date: 06 Apr 08 - 06:14 AM No viewing again facility... pity |
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Subject: RE: Seth Lakemen on Channel 5 today From: The Borchester Echo Date: 06 Apr 08 - 06:36 AM It's interspersed with an awful lot of ads for new releases from Karine Polwart and Neill MacColl/Kathryn Williams. Still, makes a break from unremitting violin abuse. |
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Subject: RE: Seth Lakemen on Channel 5 today From: nutty Date: 06 Apr 08 - 06:37 AM It may be repeated 'on demand' for cable TV viewers |
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Subject: RE: Seth Lakemen on Channel 5 today From: GUEST,A.Viewer Date: 06 Apr 08 - 07:40 AM Those ads were interesting: Karine Polwart,Neil&Kathryn getting the Big Label voice-over treatment(best of luck to them).Curious juxtaposition with Stained by your Main though.Just what was the admans picture of the target audience? AV |
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Subject: RE: Seth Lakemen on Channel 5 today From: GUEST,A.Viewer Date: 06 Apr 08 - 08:21 AM Also,great to see Ian Anderson looking well.Wonder if he still hops around on one leg and does he ever collide with the Fr editor? AV,a frequent Mudcat viewer. |
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Subject: RE: Seth Lakemen on Channel 5 today From: GUEST,Ian cookieless Date: 06 Apr 08 - 08:25 AM I think I must have entered a parallel universe, where folk music is presented on terrestrial TV without stupid or dismissive comments, where there is a well-made TV series (if the first is anything to go by) that takes the music and people seriously, and where the HMV ads in the break are for *folky* CDs. I think I like this universe. Eliza Carthy and Kate Rusby to come. |
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Subject: RE: Seth Lakemen on Channel 5 today From: Folknacious Date: 06 Apr 08 - 08:40 AM We seem to have two parallel topics running on this subject! The other one's here Perhaps it might be best to put the links from the other one into this There's a MySpace page with lots of little preview documentaries (click the thumbnails and you see more) There's a big Preview feature on fRoots and a topic about it running on their Message Board too Good viewing and about time too! |
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Subject: RE: Seth Lakemen on Channel 5 today From: Cats Date: 06 Apr 08 - 09:57 AM My apologies. I missed it. Can a helpful elf please amalgamate? Thanks |
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Subject: RE: Seth Lakemen on Channel 5 today From: GUEST,Chris Murray Date: 06 Apr 08 - 11:50 AM I loved it. Looking forward to Eliza and Kate. |
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Subject: RE: Seth Lakemen on Channel 5 today From: GUEST,WalkaboutsVerse Date: 06 Apr 08 - 05:38 PM His lyrics are folkie but he belts them out in a pop-voice, and has a rock stage-presence, with a hoverfly rhythm to his playing (for centuries English folk, at least, was the repetition of a relatively simple melody for dancing &/or telling)...wouldn't it be good if authentic English folkies could make a fair living...? |
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Subject: RE: Seth Lakemen on Channel 5 today From: Folknacious Date: 06 Apr 08 - 07:30 PM Walkaboutsverse wrote "wouldn't it be good if authentic English folkies could make a fair living...?" What is "authentic"? Would it have been identical to what classed as "authentic" 100 years ago or 300 years ago? And how do you know? How do you rate Eliza Carthy for "authentic" - she's in the series. Which would you rather have on TV: Seth Lakeman or no folk? |
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Subject: RE: Seth Lakemen on Channel 5 today From: GUEST,MC Fat (at work) Date: 07 Apr 08 - 04:58 AM Missed first part but was inpressed by the overall production of the programme even though I am not a Seth lakeman fan as previous people have said I think it bodes well for the rest of the series. |
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Subject: RE: Seth Lakemen on Channel 5 today From: GUEST,WalkaboutsVerse Date: 07 Apr 08 - 06:11 AM To folknacious: I stand by what I said above - it is a shame that English folkies have to go American-pop in order to be popular; and, on MySpace, I've had similar discussions/arguments with Eliza Carthy (mentioned above), Jim Murray, etc - I do love the world being multicultural, and I want our own good English traditions to remain a part of it. And, yes, like you, I'm glad channel 5 have given folk a guernsey, again - you may have also noticed Kathryn Tickell, earlier. |
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Subject: RE: Seth Lakemen on Channel 5 today From: George Papavgeris Date: 07 Apr 08 - 06:17 AM I have to agree with folknacious - what is "authentic", how is it defined, and with what authority? I see it as "received interpretation", which is not the same. In language, the same argument would hold if you pronounced Chaucerian English "authentic" over current "received pronounciation". In the end it is the performer's right - and duty - to interpret a piece of music or a song. One may not like the interpretation, but it is authentic - to the performer. |
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Subject: RE: Seth Lakemen on Channel 5 today From: Sttaw Legend Date: 07 Apr 08 - 06:22 AM Excellent good luck to him well done Seth |
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Subject: RE: Seth Lakemen on Channel 5 today From: GUEST,WalkaboutsVerse Date: 07 Apr 08 - 06:37 AM As I've said in verse, George, when people lose their own culture, society suffers - be it English, Aboriginal, or any other. |
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Subject: RE: Seth Lakemen on Channel 5 today From: greg stephens Date: 07 Apr 08 - 07:32 AM To a MR JOE CLONE person: Could the title of this thread be changed to LakemAn(not LakemEn). It would make it locatable to those searching under "Lakeman". |
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Subject: RE: Seth Lakemen on Channel 5 today From: melodeonboy Date: 07 Apr 08 - 08:38 AM WalkaboutsVerse: Your description of Lakeman's music seems to fit exactly with what I feel when I hear it. Were I to hear it in the middle of a daytime Radio 2 schedule, I'm not sure that I'd recognise that it was supposed to be/represent folk music, or even that it'd stand out in any way from the rest of the playlist. (In order to retain my dignity and integrity, I should point out that I only hear daytime Radio 2 when it's forced upon me. I'd never listen out of choice!) |
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Subject: RE: Seth Lakemen on Channel 5 today From: GUEST,WalkaboutsVerse Date: 07 Apr 08 - 10:27 AM Yes, Melodeonboy, and, although the tide may be turning a tad the last few years (there are, e.g., at least five top young female folkies singing in beautiful English-folk voices) our own good English folk music (and culture in general) IS sadly under-rated, these days...indeed, last time I looked on the English Arts Council site, even, it was displaying/promoting/funding everyone-else's culture in England. But, as I say, at least this is being questioned a bit more just recently... |
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Subject: RE: Seth Lakemen on Channel 5 today From: Ruth Archer Date: 07 Apr 08 - 10:33 AM The Arts Council also funds projects that focus on English culture. Please don't let this become another of your xenophobic rants, Walkaboutsverse. |
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Subject: RE: Seth Lakemen on Channel 5 today From: GUEST,WalkaboutsVerse Date: 07 Apr 08 - 11:09 AM I thought I made it clear, Ruth, that I DO love THE WORLD being multicultural...but please go and look at the English Arts Council site, and see what you think - http://www.artscouncil.org.uk |
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Subject: RE: Seth Lakemen on Channel 5 today From: Ruth Archer Date: 07 Apr 08 - 11:29 AM Walkaboutsverse, I have achieved more than £30k over the past two years from Arts Council England for outreach work in the English folk arts. I'm not alone. I know you love the world being multicultural - as long as the cultures don't mix, and everyone sticks to their bit of it. |
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Subject: RE: Seth Lakemen on Channel 5 today From: George Papavgeris Date: 07 Apr 08 - 11:51 AM Walkaboutsverse, you moved the argument to culture, while I was challenging the claims of "authenticity" of a certain interpretation of a song, or indeed of any given pronunciation of English. I repeat, it's the word "authentic" I had problems with - nothing to do with cultures. It implies a definitive version, anchored in time by some sort of authority, that everything else needs to be compared to as a "departure" from the "norm". I cannot buy that, and I consider opinions on authenticity of performance to be subjective, almost by definition. |
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Subject: RE: Seth Lakemen on Channel 5 today From: GUEST,WalkaboutsVerse Date: 07 Apr 08 - 12:42 PM Looking at Channel 4's line-up tonight, perhaps this is another "Inconvenient Truth", Ruth, but if I was, in your words, "xenophobic", would I have travelled through, and written so many positive verses about, some 40 or so countries? And, okay, it's not impossible to get funding for English-culture projects, of course, but there would be few other countries whose own culture, over the last 50 years, has been demoted to the extent of English culture; and, it seems to me, New Labour (for some reason?) have stepped that sad process up a gear. (Tony Blair, "We don't want a return of English nationalism.") And, although they may not agree with me on everything, Show of Hands were moved to pen a song about it. Now, as for "authenticity", George, for hundreds of years, English folk music, at least, WAS the (largely-dispassionate) repitiion of a relatively simple melody for dancing and/or telling; thus, if folks now are doing something like that, they are being reasonably "authentic" with their performance - agreed? |
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Subject: RE: Seth Lakemen on Channel 5 today From: Ruth Archer Date: 07 Apr 08 - 01:10 PM You're being diseingenuous, Walkaboutsverse. I have seen the discussions on the BBC messageboard where you have explained that your travels have led you to the conclusion that immigration is a bad thing, and that cultures shouldn't mix. I call that xenophobia. Considering that you're currently addressing two immigrants to the UK (in myself and George) I doubt we're likely to ascribe to the same world view. I am the last to deny that English traditional culture has been devalued and undermined by successive governments, not to mention the media and society itself, but I also don't like to see that fact co-opted by the anti-immigration lobby and associated right-wing crackpots. It serves no positive purpose. I think you'd have to be very naive not to know the sort of English nationalism Blair was talking about. I would not like to see a return to that, either. |
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Subject: RE: Seth Lakemen on Channel 5 today From: GUEST,WalkaboutsVerse Date: 07 Apr 08 - 01:31 PM Nationalsim with conquest IS bad, Ruth; but nationalism with eco-travel and fair-trade, via a stronger UN, is good for humanity. And, as suggested, quite recently, the questioning of whether it was/is a good idea to have a multiple number of cultures living under the one state law has moved well beyond just "right-wing crackpots" - and given 9/11 and 7/7 one would be foolish not to. (Further, I think questioning ECONOMIC immigration is actually a Left-Wing attitude.) |
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Subject: RE: Seth Lakemen on Channel 5 today From: Ruth Archer Date: 07 Apr 08 - 01:37 PM Walkaboutsverse, are you or are are you not an opponent of immigration? Are you or are you not an opponent of inter-racial and inter-cultural marriage, and of such couples producing children? |
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Subject: RE: Seth Lakemen on Channel 5 today From: GUEST,WalkaboutsVerse Date: 07 Apr 08 - 02:02 PM I didn't write walkaboutsverse.741.com for nothing, Ruth, but, since you seemingly can't be bothered giving it half a day of your life, here we go, briefly, in prose: The UN should make most forms of immigration/emigration, from now on, illegal and help genuine assylum seekers to their NEAREST safe country. And, since you have seen me on other sites, you should now that I've mentioned cultures NOT race - but, since you have, of course, they are now people in England, for example, of various skin colours, who are very English. |
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Subject: RE: Seth Lakemen on Channel 5 today From: Ruth Archer Date: 07 Apr 08 - 02:12 PM "questioning of whether it was/is a good idea to have a multiple number of cultures living under the one state law" "The UN should make most forms of immigration/emigration, from now on, illegal" That's what i thought. You don't think that cultures should mix, do you? That we should aim for cultural purity, with everyone confined to living in their country of origin unless they are asylum seekers? I think it's quite damaging when folk music and the English tradition are co-opted by people with views like yours. And this isn't really a conversation I'm interested in having with someone who holds such views. Goodbye. |
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Subject: RE: Seth Lakemen on Channel 5 today From: GUEST,WalkaboutsVerse Date: 07 Apr 08 - 02:24 PM But, if you do make one more visit, Ruth, do you accept that there are immigrants in England, e.g., who themselves are saying, from now on, enough is enough? |
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Subject: RE: Seth Lakemen on Channel 5 today From: Ruth Archer Date: 07 Apr 08 - 02:25 PM I'm not. Over and out. |
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Subject: RE: Seth Lakemen on Channel 5 today From: GUEST Date: 07 Apr 08 - 03:17 PM Ruth, Don't lower yourself. He needs ignoring, he has more stamina than anyone!! |
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Subject: RE: Seth Lakemen on Channel 5 today From: GUEST,The Mole Catcher's unplugged Apprentice Date: 07 Apr 08 - 03:42 PM 'But, if you do make one more visit, Ruth,....' This is, plain and simply adverising for this person's 'poetry', which is fine on his own thread ("he has more stamina than anyone!!")but I get the feeling he's attempting to encroach elsewhere. His verse leaves me totally cold, and the co-opting of The Tradition by people like him is odious at best. transmission ends. Charllote (the view from here |
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Subject: RE: Seth Lakemen on Channel 5 today From: Geoff Wallis Date: 07 Apr 08 - 03:42 PM What's worse is that David Franks makes EJ Thribb seem like Wordsworth! |
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Subject: RE: Seth Lakemen on Channel 5 today From: Geoff Wallis Date: 07 Apr 08 - 03:56 PM Actually, on second thoughts, DF should probably pay more attention to McGonagall if he truly wants to be the bard of bad verse. He's already more than halfway there in terms of style. Compare him to the great William McG. A LOSS FOR HUMANITY Toward the end of summer, A car crash in France. Then thousands of cut flowers - Some bearers in trance. For Diana broke-even - Now resting in peace; A loss for humanity - Her caring did cease. For, while taking her perks - Perks there should not be - She gave greatly of herself In kind charity: Charity good states would free. ___________________________________ And here's McG's classic. Attempted Assassination of the Queen God prosper long our noble Queen, And long may she reign! Maclean he tried to shoot her, But it was all in vain. For God He turned the ball aside Maclean aimed at her head; And he felt very angry Because he didn't shoot her dead. There's a divinity that hedges a king, And so it does seem, And my opinion is, it has hedged Our most gracious Queen. Maclean must be a madman, Which is obvious to be seen, Or else he wouldn't have tried to shoot Our most beloved Queen. Victoria is a good Queen, Which all her subjects know, And for that God has protected her From all her deadly foes. She is noble and generous, Her subjects must confess; There hasn't been her equal Since the days of good Queen Bess. Long may she be spared to roam Among the bonnie Highland floral, And spend many a happy day In the palace of Balmoral. Because she is very kind To the old women there, And allows them bread, tea, and sugar, And each one get a share. And when they know of her coming, Their hearts feel overjoy'd, Because, in general, she finds work For men that's unemploy'd. And she also gives the gipsies money While at Balmoral, I've been told, And, mind ye, seldom silver, But very often gold. I hope God will protect her By night and by day, At home and abroad, When she's far away. May He be as a hedge around her, As he's been all along, And let her live and die in peace Is the end of my song. |
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Subject: RE: Seth Lakemen on Channel 5 today From: GUEST,The Mole Catcher's unplugged Apprentice Date: 07 Apr 08 - 04:00 PM "What's worse is that David Franks makes EJ Thribb seem like Wordsworth!" In Memoriam David Franks So. Farewell Then David Franks. Mudcat poet not loved Legend in his own mind thinking his poetry is Hot. and yes your verse is famous (not). And, at the Time of writing, you think of your words indeed hot. Some may Like them but I do not. - with apologies to EJ Thribb thanks Geoff for introducing me to young Thribb *LOL* Charlotte (the view from here) |
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Subject: RE: Seth Lakemen on Channel 5 today From: Geoff Wallis Date: 07 Apr 08 - 04:17 PM Sadly, few of the great Thribb's works are available online, but one that is so is this classic paean. Lines on the Death of Chairman Mao So. Farewell then Chairman Mao. You are the Last of the Great revolutionary Figures. You And I Had little in Common Except that Like me You were a poet. Though how you Found time To write poems In addition to Running a Country of 800 million people Is baffling Frankly. |
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Subject: RE: Seth Lakemen on Channel 5 today From: GUEST,WalkaboutsVerse Date: 07 Apr 08 - 04:19 PM Geoff - there's a (C) on both McGonagall's work and mine, thus you are NOT supposed to copy/paste such verse willie nillie, whatever you feel about the quality. Further, while the mice were playing, I just watched a much more sober/sane presentation from channel 4 - "Immigaration: The Inconvenient Truth", which ended by arguing that it's good that recently more people from various cultures and classes are indeed openly questioning immigration (but, by the way, if you trace this thread, it was NOT me who brought it up - I only went off-thread to answer questions, openly). And, after all that, I stand by what I said, above, in both prose and, given it has appeared, verse. |
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Subject: RE: Seth Lakemen on Channel 5 today From: GUEST,Ian cookieless Date: 07 Apr 08 - 04:22 PM I just think it would be nice if this thread were just about how good it is to see 'folky' stuff on telly. Whether it is to our taste or not (I personally am not a fan of Seth Lakeman, but enjoyed the programme nonetheless) is not the issue, it seems to me. This series is out there, it's freely available, and it's taking the music and people seriously. It may just attract a few casual viewers enough to be interested. Hurray. Traditional music *is* a tradition: it lives, moves and evolves. If something is dead, does not move and remains static then it is of no use except as a museum piece. It therefore follows that 'authenticity' - what does that mean? what must we keep? what can we lose? how far can we stray? - is a judgement call and is, to a great extent, in the eye of the beholder. |
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Subject: RE: Seth Lakemen on Channel 5 today From: GUEST,WalkaboutsVerse Date: 07 Apr 08 - 04:27 PM Hear, hear, Ian - except it is well documented that E. trads were sung unaccompanied for centuries, yes? |
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Subject: RE: Seth Lakemen on Channel 5 today From: GUEST,Rich Date: 07 Apr 08 - 04:33 PM I think George P and Folknacious raise a really good point here. Can we talk about authenticity (not culture) when referring to an art form which has been handed down over so many years. Can we really have any confidence that what people think is 'authentic' is. That is, if by authentic we mean how it was originally intended to be sung and/ or played. Can we really know how somebody sang and played a ballad 300 years ago when all that was handed down was the lyrics on a broadside. I don't personally see how we can (but I am open to persuasion), unless we are not talking about authenticity but about something along the lines of a 'collective acceptance by the folk music population' that was agreed upon sometime in the last fifty or so years. By the way, I don't think there is anything wrong with people who like their folk music a certain way or in a certain style, but can this be badged as 'authenticity' or is it just what has been the norm in more recent living memory? I do find this interesting, has this topic been the subject of many previous threads? I assume so. |
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Subject: RE: Seth Lakemen on Channel 5 today From: Geoff Wallis Date: 07 Apr 08 - 04:33 PM DF, Since McGonagall died in 1902 his works are not subject to copyright. Yours clearly are and I humbly apologise for bringing the glories of your imagination to a wider public than your own website could ever possibly garner. |
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Subject: RE: Seth Lakemen on Channel 5 today From: skipy Date: 07 Apr 08 - 04:42 PM I'm not getting involved in this battle, I have too many wars of my own at the moment! but does anyone have the prog. on vid? I'd be happy to pay for a tape & the P&P. We missed it as we where having a folk for ms meeting! ( www.folkforms.org ) Skipy |
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Subject: RE: Seth Lakemen on Channel 5 today From: GUEST,WalkaboutsVerse Date: 07 Apr 08 - 04:51 PM Okay, then, Geoff - I thought the editor of the late (great..?) man's works held it. I'm again getting involved in this battle as I myself have questioned this centuries of unaccompanied singing - i.e., I have also heard/read that in the 17th century there was an English cittern in nearly every barber-shop and tavern in England, used to accompany songs...so what, if not E. trads, were they accompanying..? |
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Subject: RE: Seth Lakemen on Channel 5 today From: GUEST,The Mole Catcher's unplugged Apprentice Date: 07 Apr 08 - 05:23 PM I'd still waiting for GUEST,WalkaboutsVerse's answer to the question posed by Folknacious earlier in the thread. What is "authentic"? Charlotte (sits and awaits the answer) |
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Subject: RE: Seth Lakemen on Channel 5 today From: GUEST,WalkaboutsVerse Date: 07 Apr 08 - 05:32 PM I remember having a crack at that, dear Charlotte - as you had a crack (if one could call it that) at my Memoriam...I also put Ruth Archer into Yahoo to try and confirm who you two are - but, alas, only got hot (not) stuff on the Archers! |
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Subject: RE: Seth Lakemen on Channel 5 today From: GUEST,The Mole Catcher's unplugged Apprentice Date: 07 Apr 08 - 05:47 PM well, you can try and dazzle everyone else, sunshine, but you know what...?it simply isn't working with me.....and as for trying to Yahoo Ruth and I...well what can I say? I for one don't have anything to do with Yahoo, so you're out of luck there..Ruth, well you'll have to ask her, I'm not a walking HELLO! magazine, I'm afraid. I don't preftend to be a poet..I merely interpret the Trad. Arr., And, after all that, I stand by what I said And, at the Time of writing, you think of your words indeed hot. Some may Like them but I do not. Ta Ta, old boy! ________________________________________________________ Meanwhile back on thread: I found the promotional video for My Music, but nothing else. It's a pity there's no view again, I'd certainly be interested in seeing the series Charlotte (the view from here) Charlotte |
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Subject: RE: Seth Lakemen on Channel 5 today From: GUEST,WalkaboutsVerse Date: 07 Apr 08 - 05:53 PM They've definitely showed the Kathryn Tickell documentary more than once, so you will probably just have to wait a year, Ruth. |
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Subject: RE: Seth Lakemen on Channel 5 today From: GUEST,Sue Allan Date: 07 Apr 08 - 06:35 PM Charlotte - I doubt WalkaboutsVerse has considered all the ramifications of the word 'authentic', especially in regard to folkies and folk music. 'Authenticity' is a chimera ... 'what we consider as authentic always shows us more about ourselves and our values than about the object under consideration.' That's from book I've been reading recently and would recommended to anyone interested in serious study of folk music and just what we mean by the term: Matthew Gelbard's "The invention of 'folk music' and 'art music'" I've been so impressed with it I quoted it recently in another current and very contentious - not to say 'ghastly' thread ... in answer to Richard Bridge's perpetual harking back to the 1954 definition of folk music. We can all benefit from opening our eyes, ears and minds to new ways of thinking about traditional music. Does being a 'folkie' mean you HAVE to be as set in your ways and views as some 19th century antiquarians? I hope not, for folk's sake. Sue (the view from this side of the pond) |
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Subject: RE: Seth Lakemen on Channel 5 today From: melodeonboy Date: 07 Apr 08 - 08:53 PM Certainly not, Sue. But there are those about of a certain persuasion who would take the last sentence of your post to indicate that if you don't enjoy Lakeman's music and/or think it has any great relevance to the furthering/progress/future of English folk (I plead guilty on both counts, M'lord!), then you are, without question, one of those who are "set in their ways", as you put it. Beware of the new orthodoxy! |
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Subject: RE: Seth Lakemen on Channel 5 today From: George Papavgeris Date: 08 Apr 08 - 02:44 AM Thanks Rich, Sue Allan et al. I do indeed challenge any notion that we know the authentic manner of performing traditional song, or even that such a thing (as an "authentic manner") truly exists. I cannot accept unquestioningly that "dispassionate" (read: "colourless") recitation managed to carry these songs through the centuries. We know that there were favourite performers from time to time - what marked them as better than others? Were they the most dispassionate? I venture to suggest the opposite. But I was not happy to see Walkaboutsverse teased for his material further up; criticism is fine, but this was more like schoolyard teasing. And I do understand where David is coming from on the point of culture (not race), because I too bemoan the loss of a number of aspects of various cultures, though without wishing the preservation of their purity. How could I, after all; I consider myself to be bi-cultural at least, and in my mind the two can mix to the benefit of each other. But sometimes I will feel a knot in the stomach watching a Greek dance, and another time I will feel the same watching Lancashire clogdancers or Morris. Or Georgian dancing, or an African dance. I wish one/we could reclaim those elements of English culture from the BNPers who will abuse them for their vile purposes, but like David I often find myself stuck in the middle between two opposite views who cover my voice with their shouts, and each side is too ready to brand me an fascist/pinko liberal, to listen to what I am saying. Oh, heck - back to Seth... |
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Subject: RE: Seth Lakemen on Channel 5 today From: Dave Hanson Date: 08 Apr 08 - 03:08 AM Is it me or do all Seths songs sound the same ? I watched the programme on Sunday morning and wondered why I had wasted a whole hour. eric |
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Subject: RE: Seth Lakemen on Channel 5 today From: GUEST,WalkaaboutsVerse Date: 08 Apr 08 - 04:29 AM To Eric the Red - I think that's to do with the same "hoverfly" rhythm I noted above. Traditions exist due to folks being impressed by how their forebears did things (me)..? They loved thier unaccompanied folk songs, and it was basically the only form of entertainment available to them anyway (paraphrasing the late great Bob Copper)..? George - I think it was Shirley Collins who I heard describe the E. trad style as being dispassionate, and old recordings (via BBC/EFDSS) I've heard back that up. Also, for a large part of English history being passionate about things was frowned upon - you know, stiff-upper-lip, etc. Sue - England and many other countries are globalising/Americanising, and I'd hope that more American citizens themselves (for love of our world being multicultural) begin to question folkies from other nations singing in phoney American-accents, etc. (And, I think that relates to Melodeonboys "the new orthodoxy".) Also, "art music" (another branch of early music) is basically classical composers getting hold of trad songs/tunes, I think. |
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Subject: RE: Seth Lakemen on Channel 5 today From: Ruth Archer Date: 08 Apr 08 - 04:54 AM Listen to any singer from the Gypsy tradition and tell me they're dispassionate. George, as always you are ready to give others the benefit of the doubt - a quality which speaks well of the sort of person you are. But I remember the other discussions about Walkaboutsverse's "world view", which encompassed his thoughts about the "purity" of music and how this related to cultural purity. We all regret, I'm sure, the loss of certain aspects of cultural heritage, and particularly regret the fact that things we regard as vital to our culture(s) and heritage have become little more than minority pastimes. But some people harken back to a time which never existed, when Britain was a monoculture and "Englishness" could be defined as a single entity. Anyone with even a basic knowledge of British history knows how false (and possibly Victorian?) a construct this is - I was just listening to a programme on Radio 4 yesterday on how Dutch Britain was at the end of the 17th century - one of the things that made William and Mary's usurption of the throne that much easier. People who have some notion of "Britishness" or "Englishness" as a stand-alone entity, and who regret its dilution - or even pollution - by foreigners, are not only deluded, they can be rather dangerous. When those people adopt a national music as an emblem for regaining that cultural purity...well, we've seen it before, haven't we? And I think that, given the history of English "nationalism" in the 80s, any attempt to harness the horse of traditional culture to the cart of cultural purity and anti-immigration needs to be weeded out. English folk has taken enough of a beating through general neglect. The last thing we need is for it to be despised as part of a right-wing political agenda. And let's be clear: while he cited the "Americanness" of Seth's delivery, David Franks would object to Seth Lakeman's music whether he thought the influences were too African, or too Asian, or too Eastern European. I've seen the discussions on the BBC board where he argues how certain instruments shouldn't be used in English music because they're culturally inappropriate, for heaven's sake! Where on earth would that argument eventually lead? |
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Subject: RE: Seth Lakemen on Channel 5 today From: George Papavgeris Date: 08 Apr 08 - 05:12 AM Ruth, thanks, I believe you do "get" where I am coming from, and I agree about the dangers you describe. David, Shirley Collins has my admiration for her contribution, but I would not consider her an authority on how traditional song used to be performed centuries ago, or even in the mid-19th century. I don't believe she would consider herself an authority on that, either. Neither would I call her own singing style dispassionate! And the recordings we have, especially the early ones, are not always of the "best" performers of the day, just those that the collectors discovered. And anyway, how far back do such recordings go? barely more than a century. The fact is, we can only guess, occasionally assisted by a Thomas Hardy description (I am guessing here). And that is OK. Not knowing how they were performed does not detract from the old songs' value in the least. Singing them, letting them live and breathe, adapt and adopt, THAT adds value. |
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Subject: RE: Seth Lakemen on Channel 5 today From: Ruth Archer Date: 08 Apr 08 - 05:27 AM A lot of singing got done in pubs back then. It still does round my way. And I can state with some authority that the more beer is drunk, the more passionate the singing gets. I have conducted these experiments purely in the interest of empirical field research, you understand. "And the recordings we have, especially the early ones, are not always of the "best" performers of the day, just those that the collectors discovered." That is an incredibly important point, and one too often forgotten. I was reading Vaughan Williams' scrapbook in the VWML recently, which contains some correspondence from collectors like Lucy Broadwood and Ella Leather. They tell Vaughan Williams about the singers they've found, even the ones who aren't very good, but still make recordings of them and send them on to him, because it was about the songs a lot of the time, rather than the singers. Similarly, the recordings of some of the later singers were made when they were getting on in years and past their best. You aren't necessarily going to get the passion from an 80 year old that you would have got from a 20 year old. Finally, I don't see this as a particularly English trait. If you listen to the Voice of the People CDs, I don't think there's a more passionate style to the Scottish or Irish singing than to the English - but as I say, I think the Gypsy singers often incorporate a fine sense of drama and storytelling to their songs. |
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Subject: RE: Seth Lakemen on Channel 5 today From: GUEST,WalkaboutsVerse Date: 08 Apr 08 - 05:35 AM It could eventually lead, Ruth, to a more-peaceful and interesting multicultural world, with eco-travel and fair-trade (via a stronger UN) between friendlier nations; also, as for Victorian/Nazi-type imperialism, I hate it, and hope that Scottish/Welsh/etc. nationalisms also increase, and that the Commonwealth, NATO, EU, and UK all dissolve. Rather, I believe in the English nation and the United Nations - we DON'T need these other imperialistic groupings. (Indeed, I posted a poem on this, just the other day, on the thread I started a while back - Walkaboutsverse.) |
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Subject: RE: Seth Lakemen on Channel 5 today From: Ruth Archer Date: 08 Apr 08 - 05:48 AM "It could eventually lead, Ruth, to a more-peaceful and interesting multicultural world, with eco-travel and fair-trade" ...but no immigration, right? And remind me how removing the bazouki from Irish music is going to bring this about? You think that separation breeds understanding. I think it breeds insularity. We'll have to agree to differ. |
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Subject: RE: Seth Lakemen on Channel 5 today From: GUEST,WalkaboutsVerse Date: 08 Apr 08 - 06:05 AM Okay, but George - do you accept that fashion/technologies did change far less rapidly in the past, and that in those 100-year-old recordings folkies were NOT passionately belting out trad lyrics in the manner of pop-stars and Seth? Pashion, in England, is a very new fashion/buzz word - indeed, when I came back on a visit (I'm a repat. now) in 1988, I never heard suchlike; and did not Alf Ramsey encourage calm and discipline rather than passion and tolerance? |
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Subject: RE: Seth Lakemen on Channel 5 today From: Captain Ginger Date: 08 Apr 08 - 06:24 AM Sorry, but I can't agree. There are plenty of references to impromptu performances pre-1914 that were passionate, histrionic, mawkish and even angry - many where there was 'not a dry eye in the house'. One of the problems with early recording equipment was a very limited range. One had to stand very close and keep to a level tone for the best results. And given that many of the early singers were probably rather wary of such a machine, their apparent 'stiffness' and lack of passion is easy to understand. If you look at the time sigs in some of the transcripts of source material (I'm thinking of the Hammond and Gardner MSs, and songs like 'Hares in the Old Plantation') you can see that the singer adopted a very free and easy approach, which would indicate to me that there was a lot of ornamentation and the like going on. |
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Subject: RE: Seth Lakemen on Channel 5 today From: Ruth Archer Date: 08 Apr 08 - 06:29 AM "And given that many of the early singers were probably rather wary of such a machine, their apparent 'stiffness' and lack of passion is easy to understand." Indeed - hence my point about the pub. If people had been recorded in a more comfortable environment, no doubt much more of their passion would be evident on the recordings. They were also often being recorded by people from a higher social class, which also might account for some stiffness. |
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Subject: RE: Seth Lakemen on Channel 5 today From: George Papavgeris Date: 08 Apr 08 - 06:40 AM Agreed about the rapid change in tachnology and fashion nowadays, David. But that still tells us little about how Joseph Lees sung his "Jone O'Grinfilt", and I'd bet it wasn't dispassionately, unless he was doing a dead-pan on it. You mention above that "for a large part of English history being passionate about things was frowned upon - you know, stiff-upper-lip, etc". I believe this to be a fallacy, the manners you refer to were an affectation limited to a particular time (Victoria has a lot to answer for) and a particular class (mostly city-dwellers and well to do, with little experience of the things the traditional songs talk about). The ordinary man on the street or on the farm, the miner or the sailor or the tinker or the tanner wouldn't give a fig for stiff upper lips, I bet. When they hurt they cried out and when they were happy they laughed. And as for being "frowned upon", the very expression belongs to those upper classes. Let's not fall into the trap of extrapolating from a few snippets of information about the well-to-do of a given period to views of a whole, diverse society across the centuries. And just to play the culture game a little - I am reminded that in the 17th, 18th and 19th centuries many of the arts turned towards borrowing ideas from classical Roman and Greek periods; from "bucolic" poems in Elizabethan times to the columns etc in architecture etc. Now, does that mean that English culture was irreparably contaminated by those affectations? Ot simply that it assimilated them and grew with them? I think you can guess my view. Well, the same can hold true today, with influences from other cultures (just think of Chicken Tikka Massala, lager and kebab). Why, if it helps to get people singing, I might even condone karaoke! OK, that last one was a joke. Karaoke is unforgiveable... So let Seth experiment. He cannot hurt anything, and he may well add value. According to many, he does, too. |
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Subject: RE: Seth Lakemen on Channel 5 today From: greg stephens Date: 08 Apr 08 - 06:43 AM I wish people would not assume "authentic" or "traditional" mean "unchanging". In folk music, change itself is surely traditional and authentic. If I say "I like my folk music traditional" it doesn't remotely mean "I like my music the same as it was 100 years ago".But of course this doesn't mean any kind of change is traditional or authentic. People are entering the usual minefield of wilful mutual misunderstanding. Now, to return to the subjecxt of the thread, the Seth Lakeman programme. Here is a question, to which I haven't got an inkling of an answer. Channel 5 is a commercial programme.Making programmes costs money. I was involved in a comparable scale TV folk programme more than ten years ago, and I think the budget may have been about £50K. Now, this Lakeman prog was longer, and things cost more nowadays.So how much would it cost? £100K? I havent a clue, but maybe something around that?. Now, programmes on Channel 5 are paid for by adverts aren't they? Now, people have drawn attention to a few Karine Polwart and Catharine(sp?) Williams and Bon Jovi ads that went with the programme. Now, I dont imagine 11AM is exactly peak time, would that programme have really pulled in that much in advertising revenue? And, if not, where does the money come from? How does it work? Anybody know? |
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Subject: RE: Seth Lakemen on Channel 5 today From: The Borchester Echo Date: 08 Apr 08 - 06:53 AM According to one of the producers of the C5 series they were in receipt of ACE funding (dunno how much). |
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Subject: RE: Seth Lakemen on Channel 5 today From: mattkeen Date: 08 Apr 08 - 07:10 AM I understood that Michael Proudfoot's films were produced by his independent production company who also accessed some arts council funding. As regards the music- I AM SO GLAD ITS ON THE TELLY, THOUGH ITS NOT MY PERSONAL CUP OF TEA. |
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Subject: RE: Seth Lakemen on Channel 5 today From: GUEST,Solomon Brown Date: 08 Apr 08 - 07:15 AM The Channel 5 programme was indeed top and tailed with an Arts Council logo. |
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Subject: RE: Seth Lakemen on Channel 5 today From: GUEST,WalkaboutsVerse Date: 08 Apr 08 - 07:20 AM ...and suddenly, everyone was playing one of those 4-string guitars...I wonder if their sales have suddenly gone up? As far as jokes/good humour goes, George, I prefer your "wouldn't give a fig for stiff upper lips"! But is the encouragement of being passionate about things (even from traditionally sober politicians, these days) a good idea... Poem 150 of 230: TEARS Watching a documentary Of the '66 World Cup, And the way of England's Ramsey, I thought: "Let's give 'passion' up." It voiced and showed his calm way - He playing things down a touch; And as his home team won the day, They showed care but not too much. Analytical Englishmen - Cool over the tasks that lay; We see some of it in Henman, But it's not the modern way. Sadly, passion and youthful thought Have become the status quo, And social standards and sport Have sunk relatively low. http://www.walkaboutsverse.741.com |
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Subject: RE: Seth Lakemen on Channel 5 today From: mattkeen Date: 08 Apr 08 - 08:31 AM Why is there such a tendency to see experimenting as a threat? Seth's work like many others is closer to the boundary of what we are used to hearing as traditional English folk. So what. Its not threatening more traditional approaches. Its not an either/or choice. We need experimentation and we need preservation of what went before. We can do both. What I don't want is museum music |
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Subject: RE: Seth Lakemen on Channel 5 today From: Ruth Archer Date: 08 Apr 08 - 08:33 AM indeed, Matt. |
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Subject: RE: Seth Lakemen on Channel 5 today From: GUEST,WalkaboutsVerse Date: 08 Apr 08 - 08:41 AM Re: "experimentation"/"preservation": there's too much of the former, Mattkeen, and not nearly enough of the latter...and it's getting worse. |
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Subject: RE: Seth Lakemen on Channel 5 today From: Ruth Archer Date: 08 Apr 08 - 08:41 AM I should have added that i also agree with Greg. There's room for both innovation and preservation. Neither is a threat to the other and they can peacefully co-exist. Indeed, both are probably key to the longevity of the tradition. |
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Subject: RE: Seth Lakemen on Channel 5 today From: mattkeen Date: 08 Apr 08 - 09:27 AM Walkabout You are a nutter |
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Subject: RE: Seth Lakemen on Channel 5 today From: mattkeen Date: 08 Apr 08 - 09:32 AM I am not saying that the balancing between experimenting and preserving is right,... I am just asserting that you are indeed a nutter. |
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Subject: RE: Seth Lakemen on Channel 5 today From: GUEST,WalkaboutsVerse Date: 08 Apr 08 - 10:23 AM "Nutter", Mattkeen...4 technical certificates in production technology and a BA degree in humanities, majoring in anthropology, with distinctions..? But putting the anthropology of music to one side for a moment, I'd genuinely much rather listen to just the top-line melody well sung/played than what Seth does. Thus, I often listen to Scotland's Gaelic Radio, and attend/participate in festival singarounds and competitions here in NE England, where there are a few who are very good at it. |
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Subject: RE: Seth Lakemen on Channel 5 today From: mattkeen Date: 08 Apr 08 - 10:36 AM Definitely, I've got a BA in Humanities - I need no other confirmation. |
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Subject: RE: Seth Lakemen on Channel 5 today From: GUEST,Ian cookieless Date: 08 Apr 08 - 10:41 AM WalkaboutsVerse, you typed above in response to me: "Hear, hear, Ian - except it is well documented that E. trads were sung unaccompanied for centuries, yes?" Your response proves that you did not understand my post, comparing living traditions to dead museum pieces. It seems you prefer the latter. I also raised a question that the The Mole Catcher's unplugged Apprentice restated: "I'd still waiting for GUEST,WalkaboutsVerse's answer to the question posed by Folknacious earlier in the thread. What is "authentic"?" I still haven't seen an answer. I also stated what mattkeen restated: "As regards the music- I AM SO GLAD ITS ON THE TELLY, THOUGH ITS NOT MY PERSONAL CUP OF TEA." For this reason I won't post again to this thread, as it now seems to me like a bunch of people shouting at each other with their hands over their ears. What a shame. |
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Subject: RE: Seth Lakemen on Channel 5 today From: mattkeen Date: 08 Apr 08 - 11:06 AM I would just like to restate that I agree with the departing Ian. Apologies though - didn't read every post before I posted myself. Having looked at it all now that it IS bloody predictable. I dont mind if anybody once to restate something I haven't said either. |
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Subject: RE: Seth Lakemen on Channel 5 today From: GUEST,WalkaboutsVerse Date: 08 Apr 08 - 11:14 AM Authentic: genuine, real, not fake...so if someone sings an E. trad, e.g., with a phoney-American accent, another may say that's not authentic! Or just shout - yeehaa! And, regards being on the TV, there we do agree - it's often stated that folk-rockers, Steel Eye Span, brought many into folk music (although, again, I'd much rather hear Maddy Prior's AUTHENTIC unaccompanied English folk-singing). |
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Subject: RE: Seth Lakemen on Channel 5 today From: Folknacious Date: 08 Apr 08 - 12:33 PM I didn't go to university but I still think most of us on here are nutters! But here we have it. "Authentic" means unaccompanied. It's the law. Keep banging the rocks together! Meanwhile, I'm looking forward to the rest of the series which I can watch in the surroundings of my own home unimpeded by all you lot shouting, and while doing so hope that members of the general public may stumble on them and a few may even have their preconceptions altered and get interested in this music. I'm glad it's not "authentic" in that case, because there's probably a higher chance of it happening. We need ambassadors. |
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Subject: RE: Seth Lakemen on Channel 5 today From: GUEST,WalkaboutsVerse Date: 08 Apr 08 - 01:14 PM ...some may argue that Kate Rusby's and Eliza Carthy's folk voices are also too good for accompanyment. But, as I said, above, I too have questioned folkies of old always singing unaccompanied, because of all these English citterns in English taverns and barber-shops of the 17th century, used to accompany songs...what songs..?..anybody.. |
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Subject: RE: Seth Lakemen on Channel 5 today From: Sugwash Date: 08 Apr 08 - 05:25 PM Well said Folknacious. I fear that KR will be the subject of much chattering come Sunday. I recall that she was pilloried for singing a song in a Yorkshire accent on these pages not long ago...which is like an American accent, only bigger and better! |
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Subject: RE: Seth Lakemen on Channel 5 today From: The Mole Catcher's Apprentice (inactive) Date: 08 Apr 08 - 05:38 PM '.what songs..?..anybody..' Sorry, I'm too young to remember *LOL* _________________________________________________________________ anyway...yes..KR's appearance on My Music will certainly generate alot of chatter, much of it, more than likely, further anti KR rants, shame really. Charlotte R |
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Subject: RE: Seth Lakemen on Channel 5 today From: GUEST,WalkaboutsVerse Date: 08 Apr 08 - 06:38 PM A Yorkshire lady "pilloried for singing a song in a Yorkshire accent" (Sugwash)?...who on earth?!..Lancastrians..?..Wasn't "Rose in June" was it?! |
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Subject: RE: Seth Lakemen on Channel 5 today From: Sugwash Date: 09 Apr 08 - 05:08 AM Well Walkabout, if my memory serves, the KR got a lashing for singing The Village Green Preservation Society in an accent not consistent with the setting of the programme Jam and Jerusalem. Given that she also played the guitar on the song, well her crimes appear legion. Personally I enjoy both her and Seth Lakeman's singing whatever accent they have, though I'm beggered if I can find anything but Devon in Seth's. I always suspect that Lancastrians are behind everything bad, it's a traditional Yorkshire thing. |
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Subject: RE: Seth Lakemen on Channel 5 today From: GUEST,WalkaboutsVerse Date: 09 Apr 08 - 06:05 AM I said way above, Sugwash, that one positive about Seth's work, in my opinion, is his folkie lyrics but, yes, as you say, another is that, so far, he has not gone for the mid-Atlantic/phoney-American accent - although, I repeat, he does belt-out those lyrics in the American-pop style, his stage-craft is rock, and his hoverfly accompaniment is not very folkie, either. (P.S: I was actually born in Lancashire the day Alf Ramsey's English team won the World Cup.) |
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Subject: RE: Seth Lakemen on Channel 5 today From: GUEST,WalkaboutsVerse Date: 10 Apr 08 - 04:07 AM Did I say something?...did I remind folks that, not that long ago, English had far more faith in their own culture and ways, and that paying a Swede or an Italian a fortune to compete for us was unthinkable..? "We don't want a return of English nationalism," Tony Blair. Oh, yes, we do: WITHOUT any imperialism this time - WalkaboutsVerse |
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Subject: RE: Seth Lakemen on Channel 5 today From: the lemonade lady Date: 10 Apr 08 - 03:50 PM Oh dear I seem to have into this thread too late to take another pop at 'KR'. Ah well, must be more abservant in future. Sal (sitting comfortably after a long walk in the dusk) |
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Subject: RE: Seth Lakemen on Channel 5 today From: GUEST,The Mole Catcher's unplugged Apprentice Date: 10 Apr 08 - 03:57 PM 'his stage-craft is rock, and his hoverfly accompaniment is not very folkie, either' I don't have a problem with this. We don't want a return of English nationalism," Tony Blair. Oh, yes, we do. I've heard all this somewhere before...ahhh..the Daily Mail. Charlotte R |
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Subject: RE: Seth Lakemen on Channel 5 today From: GUEST,WalkaboutsVerse Date: 10 Apr 08 - 05:40 PM Except for jobsearching, I rarely read our newspapers, frankly, Charlotte - I prefer to get the news nice and easy from the TV; but I'll take your word for it. You can catch KR on Sunday morning at 11, Sal...just after drinking-in the dawn-chorus on one of your walkabouts, maybe..? |
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Subject: RE: Seth Lakemen on Channel 5 today From: GUEST,The Mole Catcher's unplugged Apprentice Date: 10 Apr 08 - 06:00 PM 'I prefer to get the news nice and easy from the TV' why doesn't that surprise me in the least......? Charlotte R |
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Subject: RE: Seth Lakemen on Channel 5 today From: GUEST,WalkaboutsVerse Date: 11 Apr 08 - 05:21 AM Actually, Charlotte, I should clarify that (as you should have clarified my "English nationalism - WITHOUT any imperialism this time") by saying the truth that I'm nearly always chipping away on the internet whilst watching the TV news. |
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Subject: RE: Seth Lakemen on Channel 5 today From: GUEST,The Mole Catcher's unplugged Apprentice Date: 11 Apr 08 - 01:14 PM as you should have clarified my "English nationalism - WITHOUT any imperialism this time") I'll answer that with this final answer which comes your way by way of Billy Bragg (I do love this quote :-) ) 'The British National Party would probably make it into a parliament elected by proportional representation, too. It would shine a torch into the dirty little corner where the BNP defecate on our democracy, and that would be much more powerful than duffing them up in the street — which I'm also in favour of.' - Billy Bragg, an interview in the Guardian, 2004 transmission ends. Charlotte R |
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Subject: RE: Seth Lakemen on Channel 5 today From: GUEST,WalkaboutsVerse Date: 11 Apr 08 - 05:45 PM I'm not a member of the BNP or any other political party, Charlotte - as I said, I believe in the English nation and the United Nations; hence, I'd rather the English Democrats. But, as with a growing number of folk, I'm enough of a realist to say I do agree with the BNP on SOME things. I also agree with Billy Bragg on SOME things - but not his latest venture of singing with a mid-Atlantic/phoney American-accent, as I recently Commented on his myspace. |
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Subject: RE: Seth Lakemen on Channel 5 today From: Folknacious Date: 11 Apr 08 - 06:57 PM Dare I remind the last three readers of this topic left standing that the series continues at 11am on Sunday with the programme about Kate Rusby, or would that be off topic? Perhaps it should be another topic so you can star the civil war all over again. Of course, if you all watched it you wouldn't have anything theoretical to argue about, which would sort of spoil things ;-) Just imagine how bad it's going to get after the Athena one the following week. She's rumoured to be partly Greek and sing no traditional songs at all. That will never do. |
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Subject: RE: Seth Lakemen on Channel 5 today From: GUEST,WalkaboutsVerse Date: 12 Apr 08 - 05:37 AM Just above, I reminded ms Lemon of that Folknacious, and I for one do hope to be watching each of the remaining 3 performers in the series. But I think it would be better if at least one of the 3 sung unaccompanied most of the time, as English folkies did for hundreds of years...will we get ONE song UA?...or hear a recording of Joseph Taylor of Sam Larner, such that folks are not deluded too much? And, as for your "civil war", I think I compete/fight reasonably fairly with WORDS/walkaboutsverse - unlike the tactics of some others presently living within the borders of England. |
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Subject: RE: Seth Lakemen on Channel 5 today From: Big Al Whittle Date: 12 Apr 08 - 06:00 AM As Tony Hancocok in The Poetry Society said, 'This bloke's a real intellectual, he reckons Bertrand Russell is a bit of Charlie.......' |
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Subject: RE: Seth Lakemen on Channel 5 today From: Folknacious Date: 12 Apr 08 - 06:17 AM "will we get ONE song UA?...or hear a recording of Joseph Taylor of Sam Larner, such that folks are not deluded too much" I'd be inclined to give Ms Carthy the benefit of expectation until her programme goes out, given her family background and upbringing. Though even the Ruzzer could surprise us I suppose. |
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Subject: RE: Seth Lakemen on Channel 5 today From: GUEST,The Mole Catcher's unplugged Apprentice Date: 12 Apr 08 - 11:10 AM ' I'm enough of a realist to say I do agree with the BNP on SOME things.' This says it all, sunshine... Charlotte R |
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Subject: RE: Seth Lakemen on Channel 5 today From: GUEST,The Mole Catcher's Canadian accented Apprent Date: 12 Apr 08 - 11:13 AM 'singing with a mid-Atlantic/phoney American-accent' I don't have a problem with this, and I love Billy Bragg's Love and Justice CD. Charlotte R |
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Subject: RE: Seth Lakemen on Channel 5 today From: Big Al Whittle Date: 12 Apr 08 - 11:44 AM ' I'm enough of a realist to say I do agree with the BNP on SOME things.' This says it all, sunshine... Charlotte R Subject: RE: Seth Lakemen on Channel 5 today From: GUEST,The Mole Catcher's Canadian accented Apprent - PM Date: 12 Apr 08 - 11:13 AM 'singing with a mid-Atlantic/phoney American-accent' I don't have a problem with this, and I love Billy Bragg's Love and Justice CD. Charlotte R ' Actually Charlotte you probably have more in common than you think with our friend. Most of the BNP type bands sound more like Billy Bragg than Jackson Browne accent wise, the phoney baloney Landan accent is all the rage amongst the skinheads. Also if you you think North to South - we are actually in the mid Atlantic. Why not a mid Atlantic accent. Think divergently, if you want to avoid the common idiocies. I think theres something a bit nasty going on here anyway. Lakeman , Carthy, Rusby may not be your idea of folk music, but they are trying hard and they're musicians , not serial killers. They don't deserve all this snotty stuff. And anyway, singing for Sam Larner was something he did when he wasn't arsing round catching fish. Those three have stated quite categorically - this is what they have done with their lives. Its not a bad thing, like crime or cruelty. Its is an honourable profession and as such worthy of respect. |
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Subject: RE: Seth Lakemen on Channel 5 today From: GUEST,The Mole Catcher's unplugged Apprentice Date: 12 Apr 08 - 11:51 AM I said...that I DON'T have a problem with the mid-Atlantic accent, and I DON'T have a problem with Billy Bragg et al using such an accent. At the same time I love Bragg's new CD. What I do have a problem with is the BNP and people who don't read "read if you want to avoid the common idiocies." Charlotte R |
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Subject: RE: Seth Lakemen on Channel 5 today From: GUEST,WalkaboutsVerse Date: 12 Apr 08 - 01:03 PM Further to Weelittledrummer's post, anyone know of a full-time English folkie singing just/almost-always unaccompanied, as Sam Larner did part-time? I've seen Brian Watson do such a gig of Geordie songs, and heard his all-UA CD (which I won in the raffle)..but I think he's always been part-time. Yes, they say, "audiences have more-sophisticated tastes these days," but I for one am quite content with good quality UA singing. |
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Subject: RE: Seth Lakemen on Channel 5 today From: GUEST,The Mole Catcher's unplugged Apprentice Date: 12 Apr 08 - 01:31 PM 'Lakeman , Carthy, Rusby may not be your idea of folk music, but they are trying hard and they're musicians , not serial killers. They don't deserve all this snotty stuff.' It seems to me that Seth Lakeman and Kate Rusby always get targetted for some imaginary offence or other, but as you say they're trying ...trying, not sitting and moaning and/or worrying about whether it's folk music or not. I'll continue to listen to them, for the sheer pleasure of listening to them. Charlotte R |
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Subject: RE: Seth Lakemen on Channel 5 today From: Big Al Whittle Date: 12 Apr 08 - 01:32 PM I'm sure there are full time UA singers. Look up Traditions at the Tiger on the net - its a local club and they seem to book that sort of thing. Moreover I seem to remember a gig where Bob davernport did it unaccompanied, although John Tams on the squeeze box joined him for the last number of the night, which was Memphis Tennessee, aa song collected in the colonies by Charles Edward Berry. Actually doesn't Dave Fentiman work UA? Yeh he does, and I'm not a traddy, I don't really know about these things. |
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Subject: RE: Seth Lakemen on Channel 5 today From: Peter Beta Date: 12 Apr 08 - 07:13 PM Watched it; pretty good... |
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Subject: RE: Seth Lakemen on Channel 5 today From: skipy Date: 12 Apr 08 - 07:45 PM PS was good to his word, good man! I look fwd to finding time tommorrow to viewing this. Skipy |
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