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England's National Musical-Instrument?
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Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument? From: GUEST,Smokey Date: 05 Dec 08 - 06:05 PM You met Lord Buckley? Now I'm really impressed.. I'll look at the links as soon as I've time to savour them properly - thanks. |
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Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument? From: Don Firth Date: 05 Dec 08 - 05:40 PM David, you want to be careful about where you get your guacamole. Some packaged dips are bogus. For example: November 30, 2006—Which is to say, whatever Kraft was selling, it wasn't guacamole! Not unlike orange Jell-O, which, at one time, consisted of gelatin, orange food coloring, and a touch of citric acid as flavoring. Not a bit of orange or orange juice in it. Pure power of suggestion! Or so I read in a nutrition magazine. In 1959, while Bob (Deckman) Nelson and I were singing around the San Francisco Bay area, we were often invited to the Sausalito home of Juanita Montrand, a retired Mexican cabaret singer and her son and daughter, Bennie and Lola. Juanita had retired from singing in cabarets, but not from singing. To keep her hand in, she sang one night a week at the "No Name Tavern" down on the Bridgeway. The "No Name" also featured such off-the-wall entertainers as Harry "The Hipster" Gibson, composer of "Who Put the Benzedrine in Mrs. Murphy's Ovaltine?" and "I Flipped My Wig in San Francisco" and other works that got him banned from radio, television, and most of the bigger clubs. And the legendary Lord Buckley*, not too many months before his Lordship died. Juanita sang Mexican folk songs in a warm, contralto voice, accompanying herself with a well-worn but deep-toned Mexican guitar. She was in her sixties perhaps, but her singing voice hadn't aged, it had matured. Beautiful and rich! Her Malagueña Salerosa put everybody else's to shame! Sometimes she, Bennie, and Lola would sing it together in three-part harmony. Goosebumps!! Juanita, a wonderful, grand lady, took we two itinerant minstrels under her wing and fed us frequently and lavishly, mainly with her specialty, Mexican cuisine. Not the sort of stuff you get in the usual run of Mexican restaurants one finds in the U. S., but the real thing! One afternoon I sat chatting with Juanita in her kitchen while she prepared the evening's meal. After dinner, several other singers were due to arrive (including Rolf Cahn) and we were going to have an evening of much singing in Juanita's large living room, with the balcony and the picture windows looking out through the trees toward the lights of Tiburon. As she and I chatted, I watched her preparing a huge bowl of guacamole for the evening gathering. When finished, she took a tortilla, spooned a generous strip of guacamole across it, rolled it up, and offered it to me. I had to be careful to keep the guacamole from squirting out the ends, but—absolutely delicious!! I don't remember her exact procedure, but this recipe [CLICKY] looks pretty close. She started with the freshest of ingredients, and she didn't garnish with radishes and she didn't serve them with tortilla chips, she served them with tortillas. But chips or toast are a functional medium for shoveling it into your face. Before I got married, I sometimes used to buy avocados from the nearby grocery store. Not sure how to pick a good one, I would lurk near the stack of avocados and wait until an older woman stopped by and selected one. Usually she would pick up several, test them for softness/firmness, smell them, then make her selection. Once she left with her choice, I would pounce, and pick up the one she almost took. I'd cut them in two, dig out the seed, drip a bit of lemon juice and a sprinkle of salt on one half, and eat it right out of the skin with a spoon. Then I'd sprinkle some lemon juice on the other half (neutralizes the enzyme that causes them to turn brown), wrap it in plastic wrap, and put it in the fridge until later. Yummy!! Barbara usually gets our guacamole (and many other edibles, including very good wines) from a nearby Trader Joe's (dedicated to fresh, healthy, pure foods—plus zany catalogs and fliers). It comes in plastic tubs, about a pint, I guess. They also have a very good hummus. *Lord Buckley meets Groucho Marx Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument? From: Ruth Archer Date: 05 Dec 08 - 01:19 PM Honestly, David - if you don't fancy working too hard, do the easy version of mine: chuck it all in the pot, boil it for an hour, whizz it up. It's got to be better for you than all the processed nasties in cup-a-soup. And it's delicious. Do you have a little mouli hand blender? They're ever so cheap, and a complete godsend if you like soup. cheap blender |
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Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument? From: WalkaboutsVerse Date: 05 Dec 08 - 12:52 PM "David - I would seriously check the contents of cup-a-soup before imbibing. Lord knows what chemicals this stuff is shot through with. I haven't checked it myself for years, but my memory of it was not pleasant." (Will)...vegetable cup-a-soup, i.e. - I being mostly vegan, although I will have whatever is going if invited, folks! ;-)> P.S: I find lettuce much more tasty when in such soups cum pottages; and both the above, slightly more sophisticated, recipes do sound good; and I've also heard that, for different minerals, we should eat vegetables of different coulour. Something in common, Don - mornings, while awaiting my porridge, I often have toast with raspberry jam and smooth peanut butter; also, for a treat, I'll spread avocado/gaucamole on toast. |
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Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument? From: mandotim Date: 05 Dec 08 - 06:10 AM Pork chunks cooked in cider with onions, celery and apples, add cream, throw in some sage dumplings...mmmmm Tim |
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Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument? From: Jack Blandiver Date: 05 Dec 08 - 06:00 AM Cobbler eh? I'll look that up. It's a bad habit carb-wise, but at this time of year... Otherwise, on the dumpling front if you're out & about in need of something cheap and cheerful, I can heartily recommend the lamb mince & dumplings at Wetherspoons. |
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Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument? From: Ruth Archer Date: 05 Dec 08 - 05:30 AM That sounds similar to a cobbler topping (US), only savoury... |
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Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument? From: Jack Blandiver Date: 05 Dec 08 - 05:20 AM In my ongoing quest for a salt-free diet, I've lately developed a dumpling comprising organic white flour, herbes de provence, olive oil and water. This gets poured over the stew and cooks as a dumpling-cum-pastry soaking up much of the flavour from below. Absolutely first class. |
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Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument? From: Will Fly Date: 05 Dec 08 - 05:15 AM Stop it - I'm dribbling into the keyboard... |
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Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument? From: Gervase Date: 05 Dec 08 - 05:06 AM Had my first dumplings of the winter last night in a beef and paprika stew - I'd forgotten how good they are. Let's hear it for suet - England's national saturated fat! |
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Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument? From: Will Fly Date: 05 Dec 08 - 04:32 AM Temptress! (Crosses fingers). Get thee behind me! :D |
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Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument? From: Ruth Archer Date: 05 Dec 08 - 04:28 AM homemade steamed treacle pud for afters? With homemade custard, naturally... :D |
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Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument? From: Will Fly Date: 05 Dec 08 - 04:25 AM Ruth - I'll get me coat.. what time is grub up? :D |
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Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument? From: Ruth Archer Date: 05 Dec 08 - 04:21 AM Ah - see, for me, dumplings are all about stew, not soup. I'm planning a nice game stew with suet dumplings for Boxing Day... |
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Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument? From: Will Fly Date: 05 Dec 08 - 04:12 AM All this talk of soups and no mention of dumplings! Vegetable soup with dumplings has just that little bit (of lovely stodge) extra. However, for the true vegetarians out there, I have to report that vegetarian suet, in the opinion of Mrs. F., doesn't make as good dumplings as beef suet. Discuss... Tip: Leave the dumplings soaking in the soup until the last knockings and then guzzle down |
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Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument? From: Ruth Archer Date: 05 Dec 08 - 04:04 AM Roasted winter vegetable soup 3 sweet potatoes 1 butternut squash 4 carrots 1 onion 1 stock cube oil garlic 1 tsp spices (cinnamon, allspice, ginger or similar) Peel and chop your veg roughly (de-seed the squash). Put it into a roasting tin with some oil and a couple of cloves of garlic, and the spices (Schwartz have this spice blend called apricot, date and cinnamon, I think, which is AMAZING in this soup - you can get it in Sainsbury's. Otherwise, something warming like cinnamon or allspice is fine). Chuck over some salt and pepper. Roast for about 25 minutes, turning occasionally - don't let the veg brown too much. Put the veg (including garlic) into a large saucepan and cover with water, and add a stock cube. Boil for about 15 minutes. Blend with a hand blender, food processor, or just mash with a potato masher - the result will be chunkier, but the roasting will have made the veg very soft. Add more water if necessary and bring to the boil again. Enjoy! Leftovers can be frozen. (If you can't be arsed to roast the veg, chuck it all into the pan of water and just boil for an hour with the garlic, stock cube and spices before blending. It's also very nice this way.) Orange vegetables are scientifically proven to be especially health giving as they're packed with anti-oxidants.This is a perfect winter pick-me-up! |
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Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument? From: Stu Date: 05 Dec 08 - 03:48 AM "rather than telling us all to go home" I wouldn't presume to tell anyone to go home, just making a few observations. |
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Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument? From: Paul Burke Date: 05 Dec 08 - 03:38 AM Barbara quite often makes soup with fresh vegetables....we wind up eating away at it Yes, it can have that effect on you. 1 onion half a white cabbage Half a head of broccoli Handful of red lentils handful of pearl barley Stock (cube) - chicken or veg Knob of butter or a bit of olive oil Boiling water Soak the lentils and barley overnight (so that the veg isn't overcooked by the time they are done). Shred the cabbage, joint the broccoli and chop the onion Fry the onions, cabbage and broccoli for a couple of minutes, dissolve the stock cube in water, add to the onions etc, throw in the lentils and barley, add more water to bulk out, salt/ pepper to taste, 20 minutes. Now you can wind up on THAT. |
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Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument? From: Don Firth Date: 04 Dec 08 - 07:26 PM Yeah, Barbara quite often makes soup with fresh vegetables. She makes substantial quantities, so we wind up eating away at it, with various additions, for a couple of days. Great assist on the days when we're working and come home hungry, but too tired to make a major production of fixing dinner. I've never eaten biscuits and gravy, but when I was in a restaurant in north central Kansas one morning, I saw someone else woofing down a large plate of glop. I asked Barbara, who is more familiar with the plains states than I am, what he was ingesting. "Biscuits and gravy," she informed me, with a slight wrinkling of the nose. I noted that the plate was swimming in grease. Just looking at it made me feel a bit queasy, so I took a sip of coffee and turned my attention back to my scrambled eggs and toast. I was introduced to grits once when I was in Denver. I once heard someone describe grits as "French fried moth balls." I drew the line at the dish of boiled okra! Rummaging for lunch today, I was wrong about the tortilla chips. But we did have some very nice sourdough bread, so I toasted a couple of slices and slathered them with guacamole. Delicious! Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument? From: peregrina Date: 04 Dec 08 - 07:09 PM I have heard -etc.- that to make a supply of self-made soup in one's native kitchen, chopping fresh vegetables (that were not wrapped in plastic) ... the full name is home-made soup... is good to do with your own hands if you have time on your hands (rather than eat freeze dried processed reconstituted e-numbered global commercial so-called soup powder) |
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Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument? From: Phil Edwards Date: 04 Dec 08 - 05:53 PM In regions of the country other than my own, I might be starting the day with biscuits and gravy The thing to remember about biscuits and gravy, at least if you're not American, is that the biscuits aren't biscuits and the gravy isn't gravy. I was at a breakfast buffet once in Colorado where b. and g. were one of the options; for the guy behind me in the queue, who came from further south, they might as well have started serving nectar and ambrosia. I thought it looked weird and uninviting. Another breakfast I had in Colorado was in a diner, and according to the menu it included a portion of grits. I'm pretty sure the grits didn't arrive - I think the waiter heard my accent and took pity. |
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Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument? From: Don Firth Date: 04 Dec 08 - 04:47 PM Let's see, now. If I were to confine myself to what some folks think of as "traditional American food," I would be surviving on roast beef, mashed potatoes and gravy, and canned peas, followed by apple pie with ice cream. With some Americans, it's a Big Mac and fries. In regions of the country other than my own, I might be starting the day with biscuits and gravy, whereas I usually start with cereal and fruit. My wife is an excellent cook. She learned much from her Czechoslovakian grandmother on one side and her Swedish, Scots-Irish, English, and Swiss grandmother on the other side. I addition, she reads a lot of cook books and is given to experimentation. She had a friend once who taught her quite a bit about Persian cooking. I, on the other hand, am the absolute master of the frozen dinner and the microwave oven. Beyond that, I make culinary history with such things as peanut butter and jelly sandwiches. Ham and cheese is a specialty of mine. A favorite sandwich is a thick slice of pre-cooked ham, a slice of Swiss cheese, and a slice of onion, along with a dollop of mustard and a dollop of mayonnaise, all on a split bagel. I used to take these for lunch when I worked at the Boeing Airplane Company back in the 1970s and a co-worker of the Jewish persuasion commented, "Ham? On a bagel? God's gonna get you for that, Firth!" Lemme see. What's for lunch today? Barbara bought a big bag of tortilla chips yesterday and I know we have some guacamole in the fridge. . . . I'll be back later. Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument? From: Ruth Archer Date: 04 Dec 08 - 04:46 PM Never mind the salt. Wavey, let me share some soup recipes with you. Seriously, you'll never touch that rubbish again. |
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Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument? From: Will Fly Date: 04 Dec 08 - 04:23 PM Half an onion, lettuce, baked beans, cup-a-soup, and a bit of extra red sauce...plus toast. David - I would seriously check the contents of cup-a-soup before imbibing. Lord knows what chemicals this stuff is shot through with. I haven't checked it myself for years, but my memory of it was not pleasant. |
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Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument? From: Don Firth Date: 04 Dec 08 - 04:23 PM However, David, I'm not sure you even understood the point I was making in my thread of 04 Dec 08 - 03:12 p.m. I do admire the alacrity with which you skirt issues and answer the inconsequential. Even Fred Astaire couldn't tap dance quite that skillfully. Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument? From: Ruth Archer Date: 04 Dec 08 - 04:22 PM CUP-A-SOUP??!! THAT's a component of your "traditional" pottage? I've heard it all now... |
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Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument? From: Don Firth Date: 04 Dec 08 - 04:17 PM "More seriously, as for most of the other posts since my last, I do read/listen to advice here, take SOME of it, and occasionally make changes to my sites due to it." Well, that's progress, at least. Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument? From: WalkaboutsVerse Date: 04 Dec 08 - 04:13 PM "You say you favor getting your daily nutrition from that traditional English dish, pottage. Okay." (Don)...what I have said, in verse, is... 206 of 230: MY DIET Chasing breads, nuts, bananas, Red sauce, apples, sultanas, Crackers, conserves, cucumbers, Pickles, porridge, pottages - Lemon barley, Cocoa, coffee, Or cups of tea. From walkaboutsverse.741.com And I've also said, in verse and prose, that FAIR TRADE is part of my argument. My "pottages" have varied slightly since publication in 2003; here's the present particulars: Half an onion, lettuce, baked beans, cup-a-soup, and a bit of extra red sauce...plus toast. More seriously, as for most of the other posts since my last, I do read/listen to advice here, take SOME of it, and occasionally make changes to my sites due to it. |
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Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument? From: Don Firth Date: 04 Dec 08 - 03:50 PM stigweard, rather than telling us all to go home, I think you need to note carefully who is merely getting their giggles by whacking away at an easy target, and who is actually trying to get through to David. An artist friend of mine (who, incidentally, referred to himself as a "painter." "Whether I am an artist or not is for others to say, not me.") once said that an artist's most valuable tool is his waste basket. And the taste and intelligence to use it when his work merits it. I don't know what it would take to get through to David, but if he would spend half the time learning to write poetry, to sing, and studying up on English traditional music from authoritative sources than he does on attempting to prematurely promote his "life's work" and claiming that those who have been folk music performers and scholars longer than he has been alive should listen to his singing, learn from it, and follow his example. . . . Not to mention his neo-fascist political ideas. It's probably impossible to get through to him, but one makes the attempt. Also, if nothing else, these threads have stimulated some interesting discussions. Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument? From: GUEST,Smokey Date: 04 Dec 08 - 03:30 PM I'm perhaps the wrong person to say this, but participation is not compulsory. |
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Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument? From: Stu Date: 04 Dec 08 - 03:22 PM I'm not saying I agree with WAV's views - they're a long way from my own and I can't say I particularly like them, even though they're far more common than many of us would like to believe. How many people read the Daily Mail for Christ's sake? 800,000 of our countrymen voted for the BNP in the last election; more vote UKIP and all those other right-wing tossers including many in the Tory party itself. WAV has wound me right up on a couple of occasions, but he's getting a right kicking on some of these threads from one or two that seem to think they are a cut above everyone else. It's too easy to keep taking pot shots at him - as you said Will, he isn't listening anyway. What I don't like is this idea someone isn't a poet because their poetry is crap, or they're not published because they weren't in The Rattle Bag or they are not a musician because they can't sing. Everything's a sliding scale, and we're all on it. I wish WAV would take advice as I think he'd get more from the music and then perhaps understand why his views are so out of step with many folkies. But many here are simply kicking and kicking and kicking, and it's not very pretty. |
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Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument? From: s&r Date: 04 Dec 08 - 03:12 PM Anyone can hold trivial opinions Will; most of us do, and in casual conversation we will offer all sorts of half baked ideas without real justification. What bothers me is that here there are demonstrably wrong opinions tied into what appears to be a rather unpleasant agenda purporting to represent the English Folkie. That's why I keep posting: I don't want anyone to accept these ideas as typical of the folk movement in any way. Part of me wants to respond to improve the guy's education, part of me to disassociate myself from his pontifications Stu |
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Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument? From: Don Firth Date: 04 Dec 08 - 03:12 PM David, o obtuse one, I am not talking about "open travel," which, incidentally, I also favor. I am talking about people who live right here where I live, in the city in which I live, in the neighborhood in which I live, and in the apartment building in which I live. You say you favor getting your daily nutrition from that traditional English dish, pottage. Okay. Hey, waitaminute— Traditional English dish? Wasn't pottage mentioned in the Bible? I believe Esau sold his birthright to Jacob for a "mess of pottage" (Genesis 25:29-34). Which means that pottage has been around for many centuries, if not a millennium or two, before England even existed. And that would make it a Middle Eastern dish, not traditional English. Capiche? But I digress. . . . Pottage. The dictionary tells me that this is "A thick soup or stew of vegetables and sometimes meat." Stews and such dishes are usually made with a variety of vegetables such as potatoes, carrots, onions, celery, often whatever vegetables happen to be at hand. Stews are usually characterized by meat (beef, mutton, chicken, seafood such as oysters if available) as one of the ingredients, whereas pottage tends to emphasize the vegetables while sometimes including meat. Okay, David. Let me draw you a parallel: You say your choice, to stay true to your "good English culture," is to subsist on pottage. I don't know what recipe you use, but let me suggest one to you. In fact, since your website and your choice of songs seem to indicate that you have a religious bent, let's make it Biblical: Regarding the pottage mentioned in the exchange between Esau and Jacob, the Bible tells us it was composed of lentils. Let us ignore for now that lentils did not originate in England, and make your pottage of lentils. Let us not corrupt it or compromise its purity with potatoes (which, after all, came to England from the New World, along with tomatoes and a number of other foods which you may enjoy), carrots, onions, or anything else. Lentils. You will spend the rest of your live subsisting on lentil soup. Lentil soup for breakfast. Lentil soup for lunch. Lentil soup at tea-time (this is England, after all). And lentil soup for supper. That, David, is the mono-culture you favor. You can, of course, take a break from lentils and go to a nearby restaurant or pub and partake of other provender—analogous to the "open travel" and sampling other cultures that you advocate—that is, when and if you can afford to. But—when you can't afford to, it's back to the lentil soup. Think about it! Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument? From: GUEST,Smokey Date: 04 Dec 08 - 03:00 PM Well, it certainly aint a challenge. It just occured to me though, that it's a bit like watching a plate-spinner. |
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Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument? From: Will Fly Date: 04 Dec 08 - 02:56 PM Strange as it may seem, I believe that David is absolutely entitled to hold the views he holds - we do, after all, still (just about) live in a democratic country - and he can think and speak as he likes. It shouldn't be any other way. However, David chooses to promote some views which are felt to be abhorrent by many on this forum - in thread after thread. He pushes them in our faces. I wouldn't even mind that, IF - and it's a really important IF - he would accept the challenge of honest debate and substantiate, with hard evidence, the views he holds. I would also prefer a moving target - God knows it would be far more stimulating. The crux of it all is whether you think that the constant promotion of these views matters or not. Do you stand back, shrug your shoulders and say, "Aw, what the hell, he's harmless enough", and metaphorically walk away. Or do you say, "It's insidious, and ultimately detestable - and not harmless." And then you don't walk away. The fact that the whole business becomes tedious and repetitive is perhaps the price for not walking away. That's the point. |
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Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument? From: Stu Date: 04 Dec 08 - 02:53 PM Hmmm. |
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Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument? From: GUEST,Smokey Date: 04 Dec 08 - 02:42 PM I find there are more meaningful areas of life in which to seek challenge.. |
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Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument? From: Stu Date: 04 Dec 08 - 02:39 PM It might be just me, but I always find a moving target a bit more of a challenge. |
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Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument? From: GUEST,Smokey Date: 04 Dec 08 - 02:36 PM His 'life's work', Will. Which he appears to have completed. I think I prefer to take my time. |
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Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument? From: Will Fly Date: 04 Dec 08 - 02:29 PM Well, he's still ducking and diving, refusing to give straight answers to perfectly reasonable and straight questions, refusing to back his assertions with hard evidence, making claims for the validity of his work that he can't substantiate, and using his own Good Website as evidence for his own Good Website in the now familiar circuitous manner. Apart from that, everything's fine. |
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Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument? From: Stu Date: 04 Dec 08 - 02:20 PM Is WAV still in the stocks? Is everyone still throwing rotten eggs at him? |
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Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument? From: GUEST,Smokey Date: 04 Dec 08 - 01:58 PM ...but this is the thread on which he exposes his politics.. |
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Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument? From: Phil Edwards Date: 04 Dec 08 - 01:28 PM on the contrary, you repeatedly ask such questions "above and below the line", and repeadedly complain/accuse if you feel I haven't answered them fully. WAV, I'm asking you not to answer political questions here. Keep them for BS. |
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Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument? From: GUEST,Smokey Date: 04 Dec 08 - 12:48 PM WaV - The term 'English flute' is obsolete, was never commonly used, and there is no reason to revive it. I note with interest that you've chosen not to answer any of my other points - I must therefore assume you are fully aware of how dodgy your political inclinations are, and that your aim is to be offensive. That's all I needed to know. |
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Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument? From: WalkaboutsVerse Date: 04 Dec 08 - 12:28 PM "I'll answer WAV's last point, but I'm not continuing this discussion here. WAV's insistence on talking politics above and below the line is disgraceful." (Pip)...on the contrary, you repeatedly ask such questions "above and below the line", and repeadedly complain/accuse if you feel I haven't answered them fully. Don - I'm definetely NOT against "open travel"...the full name of my collection is "Walkabouts: Travels and Conclusions in Verse". Back on thread: there's a link above to a 20th century article in which a well known authority on the recorder/English flute uses the latter term in his title - here's another. |
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Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument? From: GUEST,Smokey Date: 03 Dec 08 - 09:13 PM Some time ago WaV seemed to implicitly cite Plaid Cymru as an example/justification of his brand of nationalism. The following is from their website: (found under "Our aims") "To build a national community based on equal citizenship, respect for different traditions and cultures and the equal worth of all individuals, whatever their race, nationality, gender, colour, creed, sexuality, age, ability or social background." Why would my criticism of your nationalism offend these people WaV? |
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Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument? From: Tootler Date: 03 Dec 08 - 07:15 PM The term "German Flute" was once used a very long time ago in England for a while to distinguish the transverse flute from the end blown flute, namely the recorder. However as the recorder fell out of use as an orchestral instrument the term became redundant and died out. The best that can be said is that "German Flute" is an archaic term - very archaic - about 300 years out of date. Yet another of WAV's attempts at misinformation. |
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Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument? From: GUEST,Smokey Date: 03 Dec 08 - 07:10 PM Well said Don.. |
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Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument? From: Don Firth Date: 03 Dec 08 - 06:58 PM I don't see the United Nations ever taking up your cause, David. There are many pockets of tribalism here and there, but the general trend—the zeitgeist, if you will—is toward a breakdown of such arbitrary limitations as national borders and passports and such, and an acceptance of the idea of open travel and multiculturalism. Tribal thinking, or in its mega-form, nationalism, is one of the main stumbling blocks on the road to the earth becoming a civilized planet. This is not to say that we should all "assimilate" and become one monolithic culture. No. The true benefit to all mankind is when we can pick and chose from the rich variety of cultures there are in the world. Although the city I live in is not generally regarded as one of the world's major cultural centers, it is a major west coast (of the U. S) seaport, and it is a very cosmopolitan and multicultural city. I have eaten in Chinese restaurants that are not the usual "chop suey" joints, but where the fare is real Chinese food. Within walking distance of where I live, there are restaurants featuring the foods of at least a dozen nations. There is an excellent Indian restaurant three blocks from where I live. Speaking of "culture", we have a world class symphony orchestra, opera company, and ballet company. I got a good explanation of the Palestinian view from an Egyptian-born Arab. I have drunk real Turkish coffee brewed in the traditional way by a genuine Turk. I have had enjoyable fencing matches with French, Italian, German, Latvian, and Russian fencers, all who live here. I have several Vietnamese friends. I know people from England, Bali, Japan, and Tonga. I had a drinking buddy from Estonia. I have had many interesting chats with acquaintances from India and Kenya. Seattle has quite a large Scandinavian population. There are churches here of all denominations, including a number of synagogues and at least two mosques. I learned to play some flamenco guitar from a genuine Spanish gypsy who was playing at the Spanish Village during the Seattle World's Fair in 1962. In the building in which I live, there is a Chinese doctor and his mother, a Chinese exchange student attending the University of Washington, and a couple from South Africa. Across the hall lives a young woman from Belgium with her husband and her three year old son. I had many interesting conversations on the fado music of Portugal with a young woman from Lisbon who lived in the building and who loaned me some CDs (I mentioned to her that I had seen and heard Amalia Rodriguez in a movie some decades ago). And they are all right here, where I live. I am surrounded by a rich diversity of cultures, viewpoints, and ideas. Like the biologists' view of hybrid vitality, this kind of diversity is a source of strength and vibrancy in any community. The United States is a country made up of immigrants. So is England. The immigration to the U. S. is just more recent than the immigration to England. I think I would suffocate in the kind of bland monoculture that you seem to be advocating, David. Loosen up! Open your mind to new ideas! Get some excitement into your life. Don Firth P. S. I have a friend who is a flautist in the Seattle Symphony. He doesn't call his flute a "German flute." He calls it a "flute." |
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Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument? From: Phil Edwards Date: 03 Dec 08 - 06:34 PM I'll answer WAV's last point, but I'm not continuing this discussion here. WAV's insistence on talking politics above and below the line is disgraceful. |
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